Trey Burton and TEs discussion

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Mikefive
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Trey Burton and TEs discussion

Thu May 30, 2019 10:47 pm

I was just looking up his stats.

569 yards
6 TDs
16 games played, presumably all starts

There's nothing wrong with those stats. There were 12 other TEs with more yards. Ertz, Kelce and Kittle were in another category with well over 1000 yards each. Burton's TD numbers were better than just about everybody around him in yards. Clearly, he's a bit above average, although not a lot. Good on him that he played all 16 games. And you get the feeling that as a former QB, his smarts helped him pick up the offense's nuances.

That said, part of me thinks his stats are marginally padded by Nagy's offense. If he played in a less dynamic offense, he might not put up quite the same numbers. But maybe I'm wrong about that. Call it a hunch. But that deal where he couldn't play in the Eagles playoff game was just strange, in a not so good way. Consider my eyebrow raised on that one.

Part of me thinks that there's room for another TE to step up and take a greater role. I was calling out all year--after a fairly productive preseason--for Adam Shaheen to take a jump in his sophomore year. But a TC injury knocked him out for half the season and he never seemed to recover. That his post recovery production was next to zero bothers me, although maybe I'm being unfair there. I'll come back to Shaheen in a bit.

I always had some minor affection for Daniel Brown. He was very Burton like. As much heavy WR as he was move TE, he always seemed to be good enough to make a few plays in the Fox era. Ben Braunecker always felt like more of a STs player to me. How curious that once Nagy got here, Harvard brainiak Braunecker sticks and Daniel Brown fades away. That seemed to indicate to me that having a lot of brain cells is an advantage in Nagy's offense. But I'm probably oversimplifying it.

That brings me back to Shaheen and his paycheck thievery in the 2nd half of 2018. Was he just out of sync with the offense? Was he behind mentally in a growing offense? Was his confidence down? Was he healthy enough to be cleared to play, but still affected by his ailment? Now he could come into TC ready to go and springboard off of last TC's successes into a solid contributor role this season. But I'm starting to really wonder if spending a 2nd round pick was an overswing. Does anybody think he could put up Trey Burton's 2018 numbers if healthy? I have serious doubts.

We managed a rather interesting get with maybe the highest rated UDFA TE in Dax Raymond. He'll be someone I'll be watching in TC. Anyone think he has a chance to make the team? It's possible.

I really think Burton was maxed out last year. Don't think we're going to see more from him. I think there's room for another TE to step into the mix as a significant contributor, but I just don't know that that guy's on the team right now. I just don't have the faith that Shaheen can accumulate 500 yards receiving, although he might be able to haul in more than 6 TDs just by boxing guys out. Braunecker is what he is. Maybe that guy is Dax, but certainly a lot of wait and see needs to happen.

Perhaps a bigger factor in the TE position is what we did at WR. Robinson starts the season healthy from day 1. Miller has a year underneath him and a shoulder that's all better. His arrow is pointing up. Gabriel is Gabriel. FA Patterson will be out there running around. #15 and #11 are gone, but both Ridley and Wims look poised for some role. And UDFA Emmanuel Hall could be a wild card factor. All this tells me that WRs might get a bit higher percentage of targets.

Thoughts?
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Richie
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Re: Trey Burton and TEs discussion

Fri May 31, 2019 5:56 am

I continue to be very perplexed by his absence in the playoff game vs Philadelphia as well. A late surprise like that can screw with a game plan too.

However, I suspect he'll essentially have the same role. He wasn't as big of a factor as I had hoped, but he still came through in some key moments throughout the season. Overall, he was dependable. He just wasn't a game breaker.

Shaheen? Yeah, I've just about mailed in my hopes on him. I hope I'm wrong.
Last edited by Richie on Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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wab
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Re: Trey Burton and TEs discussion

Fri May 31, 2019 9:37 am

RE: Brown - he's currently with the Jets...

RE: Burton - I was among those disappointed in his stats, but then I realized those stats were career highs. Beyond the stats, I was more disappointed in his impact overall. I don't know what I expected, but I just expected...more. Given that he was dealing with a hernia most of the season, I can give it a pass. He needs to move the needle this year though, but he's here for this season and probably next regardless. It's his job to lose.

RE: Shaheen - He really needs to stay on the field and produce or this might be his last season with the team. We all knew he was a bit of a project and would take a while, but injuries have wrecked that plan.

That leaves a handful of fringe dudes...

Braunecker has shown he can play when needed, and is a fairly well rounded player.

Sowell seems like a gimmick at this point. Is it worth holding a roster spot just so an extra blocker doesn't have to report?

Raymond has a chance to stick I think. His skill set really fits the offense...he's in that Kelce mold. Just depends on if he can actually play or not.

Then the rest...
Ian Bunting - Pretty athletic kid with some upside, but only 11 catches in college.

Ellis Richardson - Former Alabama State QB that transferred to GA Southern and became a TE. Basically a carbon copy of Burton.

Jesper Horstead - He's probably the most interesting of the final three. Another guy in the Kelce mold.

The wildcard is Wims... I know a lot of fans speculate that he could move to TE, but right now that's all it is.

TL;DR - I think the Bears carry 4, possibly 5 TE's. Burton and Shaheen are locks. Braunecker probably is too because he sort of fills that H-Back role and it doesn't look like the Bears are going to carry a TE. Sowell/Raymond/Horsted are probably fighting for the final spot or two. One of Horsted/Raymond probably ends up on the PS.
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Mikefive
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Re: Trey Burton and TEs discussion

Fri May 31, 2019 1:55 pm

I feel pretty well like you do when it comes to Burton, wab. He's alright, but...….. And maybe it's just unfair, since the guy was a career backup previously. I think my expectations were tainted by seeing what Kelce has done with KC where Nagy came from. So maybe I'm just unrealistic. It's not like Burton's numbers are bad. They absolutely aren't.
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Re: Trey Burton and TEs discussion

Fri May 31, 2019 9:28 pm

So my thoughts with Burton and Shaheen.

Burton backed out of throwing on one of our trick plays cus of the stress of the Philly Special in the Super Bowl. That tells me a bit of his make up. He backed away from a trick play out of stress. Name a winner that did that.
So as far as he goes, I expect middle of the road production from him at this point and hope Shaheen can stay healthy and step up and be dynamic. However, no matter where those chips fall, I think our offense is designed to share the ball and we have so many play makers that maybe the TE doesnt shine like a Gronk, Kelce or Ertz.

I would like one of them to be a good reliable outlet for 3rd down plays or goal line plays. I think they both share that role.

But I am a meatball...what do I know? lol I just want to win.
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Richie
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Re: Trey Burton and TEs discussion

Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:36 am

Umbali wrote:So my thoughts with Burton and Shaheen.

Burton backed out of throwing on one of our trick plays cus of the stress of the Philly Special in the Super Bowl. That tells me a bit of his make up. He backed away from a trick play out of stress.
A trick play? He bailed out of A LOT more than that. You are aware that he skipped out on playing in the wild card playoff game vs Philly because of an anxiety attack... right?

I am aware that he didn't want to throw on a trick play as well. However, that's nothing compared to what he really bailed out on.
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The Marshall Plan
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Re: Trey Burton and TEs discussion

Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:42 am

I like the idea of Wims bulking up a little by 10 to 15 lbs and getting reps at TE.

He's currently listed at 6'4" and 215 lbs.

He's an inch taller than Burton giving Biscuit a bigger safety blanket type target that can go up there and get the ball.

https://www.chicagobears.com/team/players-roster/javon-wims/

https://www.chicagobears.com/team/players-roster/trey-burton/
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Re: Trey Burton and TEs discussion

Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:43 pm

So we have an offense that is designed to spread the ball around with a developing QB who, at times, let the ball get away from him throwing over the middle (Bills and Rams games). Overall, Trubisky hasn't appeared to have 1 guy that he looks for when he needs a play, and Nagy has a cache of quick read plays that gets the ball to a specific guy after the snap.

I think the TE position is fine. Pace and Nagy have brought in competition for the position and it'll be an interesting camp to see who makes it. I predict that other teams are going to be watching carefully to see which guys we drop from the offensive skill spots, and that most won't last long if we cut them.
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Re: Trey Burton and TEs discussion

Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:04 am

Atkins&Rebel wrote:So we have an offense that is designed to spread the ball around with a developing QB who, at times, let the ball get away from him throwing over the middle (Bills and Rams games). Overall, Trubisky hasn't appeared to have 1 guy that he looks for when he needs a play, and Nagy has a cache of quick read plays that gets the ball to a specific guy after the snap.

I think the TE position is fine. Pace and Nagy have brought in competition for the position and it'll be an interesting camp to see who makes it. I predict that other teams are going to be watching carefully to see which guys we drop from the offensive skill spots, and that most won't last long if we cut them.
Well said.

I think a lot of us may be overthinking the TE position.

In this offense, it's going to be difficult for any one receiving target to post exceptional numbers. As Nagy/Trubisky do not seem to possess any (noticeable) biases/favorites among them. The ball goes where the situation and matchup dictates. Which I think plays to our advantage.

Having a clear #1 stud receiving target (i.e. prime Brandon Marshall) is a convenience. However, there's something to be said for the way our offense functions without one as well.

We don't necessarily need Trey Burton to be Travis Kelce.
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Mikefive
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Re: Trey Burton and TEs discussion

Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:42 am

OK. But if you had Travis Kelce, I think you'd want to get a lot more out of him than Trey Burton numbers.
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wab
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Re: Trey Burton and TEs discussion

Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:44 am

Richie wrote:
Umbali wrote:So my thoughts with Burton and Shaheen.

Burton backed out of throwing on one of our trick plays cus of the stress of the Philly Special in the Super Bowl. That tells me a bit of his make up. He backed away from a trick play out of stress.
A trick play? He bailed out of A LOT more than that. You are aware that he skipped out on playing in the wild card playoff game vs Philly because of an anxiety attack... right?

I am aware that he didn't want to throw on a trick play as well. However, that's nothing compared to what he really bailed out on.
That's not why he didn't play in the Wild Card game. Does he have issues with anxiety, yes. Has he been open about that for a while, yes.

He hurt his groin. Now he's having surgery to repair it because it didn't heal properly. Unless that's just a cover up so he can miss OTA's due to anxiety.
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Re: Trey Burton and TEs discussion

Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:57 am

Mikefive wrote:OK. But if you had Travis Kelce, I think you'd want to get a lot more out of him than Trey Burton numbers.
And if we had Ezekiel Elliott we wouldn't have had to trade up in the 3rd round to grab a RB, but we have who we have and incorporate them accordingly.
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Re: Trey Burton and TEs discussion

Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:26 am

wab wrote:
Richie wrote:
Umbali wrote:So my thoughts with Burton and Shaheen.

Burton backed out of throwing on one of our trick plays cus of the stress of the Philly Special in the Super Bowl. That tells me a bit of his make up. He backed away from a trick play out of stress.
A trick play? He bailed out of A LOT more than that. You are aware that he skipped out on playing in the wild card playoff game vs Philly because of an anxiety attack... right?

I am aware that he didn't want to throw on a trick play as well. However, that's nothing compared to what he really bailed out on.
That's not why he didn't play in the Wild Card game. Does he have issues with anxiety, yes. Has he been open about that for a while, yes.

He hurt his groin. Now he's having surgery to repair it because it didn't heal properly. Unless that's just a cover up so he can miss OTA's due to anxiety.
The timing of it suddenly being too much to bear - 48 hours before the game was odd. I'm far from the only one who has speculated that it was his anxiety which kept him out of that game. He had been playing with the groin issue. There were a lot of talks about his anxiety over that month period or so. I think it was certainly a factor.
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Re: Trey Burton and TEs discussion

Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:30 am

Mikefive wrote:OK. But if you had Travis Kelce, I think you'd want to get a lot more out of him than Trey Burton numbers.
Sure. He's probably a hall of fame TE. Trey Burton isn't.

The point is that we don't necessarily need all-pro production at TE to win a Super Bowl with the way this offense is designed. Would it help? Sure. It would also help to have all-pro production at every position, but that's a pipe dream. Burton fills the TE role quite well.
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Re: Trey Burton and TEs discussion

Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:10 am

I would like to know where I can get a Travis Kelce, are they available in 6-packs? I was unaware they were so plentiful in the NFL.
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Re: Trey Burton and TEs discussion

Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:29 pm

I'm relentlessly positive about most things bears but i've got pretty low hopes for adam shaheen. to me he's just kellen davis with better hands. he's got size and decent speed, but just doesnt have the body control needed at this level to put the whole package together and that's just going to lead to fluke injuries.

i hope i'm wrong! and i dont really begrudge the pick, but i think ultimately he's going to be a swing and a miss.
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Re: Trey Burton and TEs discussion

Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:04 pm

Everything pretty well covered in this thread. But I always wondered, even before the surgery, why all the doubting of Burton. Was there anything in his history as a player, either with Philly or the Bears to suggest that he would intentionally miss a key game? If so, I'm not aware of it. Let's hope he makes a full recovery and see how he performs in his second year as a starter and in Nagy's system.

As for Shaheen, he was looking good last year in pre season. Can he stay healthy? In any case, he was a reach in the second round of the draft.

If Raymond, or someone else can flash, it would be nice.
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Re: Trey Burton and TEs discussion

Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:52 pm

Mikefive wrote:OK. But if you had Travis Kelce, I think you'd want to get a lot more out of him than Trey Burton numbers.
I'm looking to see progression in year 2 for everyone

I think this piece is on point
https://sportsmockery.com/2019/06/trey- ... ribes-how/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Trey Burton and TEs discussion

Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:47 am

shame we can't give Trey Burton's healthy legs to Zach Miller ... then we'd have our productive TE on the field while Burton could limp off into the rubber room he seems to need
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ursamagnus
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Re: Trey Burton and TEs discussion

Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:51 pm

Pro Football Focus graded Burton the best overall run-blocking among tight ends in 2018.

1. Trey Burton, Chicago Bears

Burton caught 54-of-73 targets for 569 yards and six touchdowns in his first year with the Bears, but his best efforts were in the run game. He earned three single-game run-blocking grades above 85.0 and finished the year with the highest overall run-blocking grade (79.5) among qualifying tight ends.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/p ... ds-in-2018" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In another piece

TREY BURTON, CHICAGO BEARS – 72.7 RED-ZONE GRADE

In his first season with the Bears, Trey Burton generated a quiet 69.4 overall grade that ranked 17th at the tight end position. However, inside the red zone, he proved his worth, ranking as the fourth-best tight end with a 72.7 grade. Burton recorded 11 receptions on 12 targets for five touchdowns, while his 131.3 passer rating when targeted inside the 20 paced the league’s players at the position.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/p ... ds-in-2018" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thus far, those are promising results. Let's see how he develops.

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