#10 is actually coming along nicely if you use the Brees comparison. Which Pace said after the draft was Mitch's comp. Pace was around Brees in New Orleans, so he's got to be pleased with Mitch and his development so far.
If you take all of Mitch's pass attempts from college and the pros and add them up.... it doesn't even equal Lamar Jacksons college pass attempts. The guy is very inexperienced. He's still learning how to play QB. But he's already showing growth. He needs to be more consistent for sure, but I'm feeling a lot better about #10. IMO he is our franchise QB of the future, we just have to go through the growing pains and this kid will be a slayer for us.
Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter
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I have no idea who to compare Mitch to. It’s not Brees. Brees has a fucking cannon for an arm and he hits people doing it. Mitch may have the cannon but you never see it get used.Otis Day wrote: ↑Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:16 pm 10 has all the physical tools you would want in a QB these days.
Brees was physically limited - size, not know as real mobile.
Brees, by far, the more intellectual, 10 seems to lack in this area. Brees has far more field awareness. 10 may get better, but I don't foresee him being on Brees' level.
I don't foresee 10 ascending to Brees' level, but he can still be a winning QB.
Strictly from their approach to the game I want to say Mitch is a right handed Steve Young. IIRC, and I could be wrong after all these years, but Young excelled in chaos. Scrambling for his life. Shit hitting the fan. Young could gut an opponent like a bass.
When Mitch can concentrate and think he falls apart. I think Mitch is the guy in math class who looks at a word problem and says “4” and gets the answer right, but can’t really show his work all that well. Either way I don’t give a fuck. Just win on Sunday. That’s the beginning and end of how I look at him.
To me, Mitch is Ricky “Wild Thing” Vaughn. Keep it simple. Throw the heater. You’ll be just fine. Don’t start inventing pitches and thinking outside the box.
This is one of the reasons why I think he’s struggled in Nagy’s offense. Nagy’s offense is the NFL equivalent of a moon landing. Everything needs to be perfect and well thought out and God forbid he get any support from the Nagy in the form of a running game or consistent OL play. Nagy should give Mitch the reigns from time to time and just let him have fun. But that would require Nagy to not be a micromanager which I think he is. I don’t even think Helfrich calls the plays. I can’t figure out what the hell Hefrich does. He’s up in the booth right(?) so its not like he even gets hot chocolate for Nagy. Who the fuck knows?
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Gotta give the credit to wab. He was the first I saw compare 10 to Steve Young.The Marshall Plan wrote: ↑Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:11 pmI have no idea who to compare Mitch to. It’s not Brees. Brees has a fucking cannon for an arm and he hits people doing it. Mitch may have the cannon but you never see it get used.Otis Day wrote: ↑Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:16 pm 10 has all the physical tools you would want in a QB these days.
Brees was physically limited - size, not know as real mobile.
Brees, by far, the more intellectual, 10 seems to lack in this area. Brees has far more field awareness. 10 may get better, but I don't foresee him being on Brees' level.
I don't foresee 10 ascending to Brees' level, but he can still be a winning QB.
Strictly from their approach to the game I want to say Mitch is a right handed Steve Young. IIRC, and I could be wrong after all these years, but Young excelled in chaos. Scrambling for his life. Shit hitting the fan. Young could gut an opponent like a bass.
When Mitch can concentrate and think he falls apart. I think Mitch is the guy in math class who looks at a word problem and says “4” and gets the answer right, but can’t really show his work all that well. Either way I don’t give a fuck. Just win on Sunday. That’s the beginning and end of how I look at him.
To me, Mitch is Ricky “Wild Thing” Vaughn. Keep it simple. Throw the heater. You’ll be just fine. Don’t start inventing pitches and thinking outside the box.
This is one of the reasons why I think he’s struggled in Nagy’s offense. Nagy’s offense is the NFL equivalent of a moon landing. Everything needs to be perfect and well thought out and God forbid he get any support from the Nagy in the form of a running game or consistent OL play. Nagy should give Mitch the reigns from time to time and just let him have fun. But that would require Nagy to not be a micromanager which I think he is. I don’t even think Helfrich calls the plays. I can’t figure out what the hell Hefrich does. He’s up in the booth right(?) so its not like he even gets hot chocolate for Nagy. Who the fuck knows?
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Good comparison to Steve Young. His first 2 seasons he played with the Bucs and impressed them enough to be traded to the 49ers and Bill Walsh's West Coast offense, in which he flourished. Young ended up completing 64% of his passes, 232 TDs to 107 INTS, 8.0 yards per attempt. Rushed for a bit over 4200 yards. He also had 3 full seasons at BYU. I don't know if Nagy can resist the temptation to stop being so cute and let Trubisky play the style for which he is most suited and seems to be achieving some success.
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Nagy should be running boots, and moving the pocket, in order to allow Mitch to move his feet. He's just so much better when he's moving, than when he's dropping back and going through reads. I agree with the Young comparison, I just hope he can achieve 70% of his success.
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Kyle Shanahan's offense is perfect for what Mitch does. I thought Trubisky took a couple shots at Nagy with referring to the lack of boots and screens yesterday afternoon. Trouble in paradise?Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:31 pm Nagy should be running boots, and moving the pocket, in order to allow Mitch to move his feet. He's just so much better when he's moving, than when he's dropping back and going through reads. I agree with the Young comparison, I just hope he can achieve 70% of his success.
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Hoge & Jahns were saying they think he finally understands that his career is on the line. I agree with them and I'd go further to point out that Mitch has a much shorter window than Pace and Nagy. There's a decent chance he's fighting to stay in football in 2021 and meanwhile Nagy and Pace can always fall back to the collegiate level or other smaller leagues to rebuild their reps with the intention of returning to top NFL positions down the road. Mitch can't afford to just go along with whatever Nagy wants to do if it's making him look bad.
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I havent seen anyone talk about how they were pulling a sean mcvay yesterday... they kept rushing to line up and then nagy was talking to mitch right up until 15 seconds. at this point in the year to revert to that feels pretty bad.
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What if Nagy is trying to get Mitch to take full control of the offense, and is willing to give up a "year" in order for Mitch to step up and take control for the rest of his career here and ultimately make him a better QB?
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I heard that too and it's certainly getting more interesting. Although I'd disagree with you that he could be "fighting to stay" in football in 2021. Based on what we know now, a first rounder with his attributes and character reputation will have no problem finding another starting job after next year. The circumstance may not be optimal. But there will be coaches who think they can work with him.crueltyabc wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:18 pm Hoge & Jahns were saying they think he finally understands that his career is on the line. I agree with them and I'd go further to point out that Mitch has a much shorter window than Pace and Nagy. There's a decent chance he's fighting to stay in football in 2021 and meanwhile Nagy and Pace can always fall back to the collegiate level or other smaller leagues to rebuild their reps with the intention of returning to top NFL positions down the road. Mitch can't afford to just go along with whatever Nagy wants to do if it's making him look bad.
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I eventually see him going into more of a Tannehill/Tennessee situation. I can't imagine that anyone wants to commit to Mitch right now or after another season of this. However, I could see someone saying that he's a really good backup, with great character and some upside to become a starter again. Keeping him there behind another QB as an insurance policy and then handing over the reigns if necessary. I could see being excited about having Mitch in that situation.Mikefive wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:17 pmI heard that too and it's certainly getting more interesting. Although I'd disagree with you that he could be "fighting to stay" in football in 2021. Based on what we know now, a first rounder with his attributes and character reputation will have no problem finding another starting job after next year. The circumstance may not be optimal. But there will be coaches who think they can work with him.crueltyabc wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:18 pm Hoge & Jahns were saying they think he finally understands that his career is on the line. I agree with them and I'd go further to point out that Mitch has a much shorter window than Pace and Nagy. There's a decent chance he's fighting to stay in football in 2021 and meanwhile Nagy and Pace can always fall back to the collegiate level or other smaller leagues to rebuild their reps with the intention of returning to top NFL positions down the road. Mitch can't afford to just go along with whatever Nagy wants to do if it's making him look bad.
You would almost rather do that than go start for a team like the 2019 Miami Dolphins anyway.
I guess Young is a model of what you hope Trubisky would/will be with that kind of skill-set.
The issue with the comp as far as trajectory, though. Is that Young only started 19 games in Tampa over two years. Less than half of the starts Mitch will have made at the end of his 3rd year.
Mitch will make his 40th start Sunday night vs KC. Steve Young's 40th start came during an all-pro 14-2 season where he led the league in practically everything (Literally everything... CMP%, TD's, TD%, INT%, Y/A, Y/C, QB Rating).
I still think he more closely resembles Tannehill. A great athlete that I just don't ever quite see grasping the nuances or fundamentals of the position. It seems like Mitch can only function in a totally perfect environment. The same has and continues to be true for Tannehill.
Tannehill (possibly) has finally figured something out at 31. But I shiver at the thought of being the team who gives Tannehill a Nick Foles type of contract. I think it will render the same results.
The issue with the comp as far as trajectory, though. Is that Young only started 19 games in Tampa over two years. Less than half of the starts Mitch will have made at the end of his 3rd year.
Mitch will make his 40th start Sunday night vs KC. Steve Young's 40th start came during an all-pro 14-2 season where he led the league in practically everything (Literally everything... CMP%, TD's, TD%, INT%, Y/A, Y/C, QB Rating).
I still think he more closely resembles Tannehill. A great athlete that I just don't ever quite see grasping the nuances or fundamentals of the position. It seems like Mitch can only function in a totally perfect environment. The same has and continues to be true for Tannehill.
Tannehill (possibly) has finally figured something out at 31. But I shiver at the thought of being the team who gives Tannehill a Nick Foles type of contract. I think it will render the same results.
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Ways in which Mitch resembles Steve Young: He's about 6'2" and a good runner. Mentally they are very unalike. And I'll have to refresh my memory, but Mitch really only has a fastball. I believe Young was quite a better passer by this point.
I still like the Harbaugh comp much better. Same mobility. Similar mentally. Harbaugh sat for a while, and then was still a late bloomer. I do not like comparing Mitch Trubisky to HOF-class QBs. Just...no.
I still like the Harbaugh comp much better. Same mobility. Similar mentally. Harbaugh sat for a while, and then was still a late bloomer. I do not like comparing Mitch Trubisky to HOF-class QBs. Just...no.
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I still like the Harbaugh comp much better. Same mobility. Similar mentally. Harbaugh sat for a while, and then was still a late bloomer. I do not like comparing Mitch Trubisky to HOF-class QBs. Just...no.
I could not agree more.
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“Mitch Trubisky reminds me a little of Steve Young when he plays” and “Mitch Trubisky’s statistics through X amount of games is strikingly similar to Drew Brees” is not the same as “OMG MITCH IS BASICALLY STEVE YOUNG AND DREW BREES SO HE’S GOING TO THE HOF”.
I don’t think this needs to be as complicated as everyone seems to want to make it.
I don’t think this needs to be as complicated as everyone seems to want to make it.
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Steve Young had 34 college starts for BYU, vs. 13 for Biscuit at NC. So its not surprising that Young took fewer NFL starts to get up to speed than Trubisky.Richie wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:32 pm I guess Young is a model of what you hope Trubisky would/will be with that kind of skill-set.
The issue with the comp as far as trajectory, though. Is that Young only started 19 games in Tampa over two years. Less than half of the starts Mitch will have made at the end of his 3rd year.
Mitch will make his 40th start Sunday night vs KC. Steve Young's 40th start came during an all-pro 14-2 season where he led the league in practically everything (Literally everything... CMP%, TD's, TD%, INT%, Y/A, Y/C, QB Rating).
I still think he more closely resembles Tannehill. A great athlete that I just don't ever quite see grasping the nuances or fundamentals of the position. It seems like Mitch can only function in a totally perfect environment. The same has and continues to be true for Tannehill.
Tannehill (possibly) has finally figured something out at 31. But I shiver at the thought of being the team who gives Tannehill a Nick Foles type of contract. I think it will render the same results.
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Apparently this isn't common sense.wab wrote: ↑Tue Dec 17, 2019 5:25 pm “Mitch Trubisky reminds me a little of Steve Young when he plays” and “Mitch Trubisky’s statistics through X amount of games is strikingly similar to Drew Brees” is not the same as “OMG MITCH IS BASICALLY STEVE YOUNG AND DREW BREES SO HE’S GOING TO THE HOF”.
I don’t think this needs to be as complicated as everyone seems to want to make it.
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How long is long enough? Not 3 years? Not 40 starts? So... what is? 50 starts? 75 starts? 100 starts?Mikefive wrote: ↑Tue Dec 17, 2019 5:41 pmSteve Young had 34 college starts for BYU, vs. 13 for Biscuit at NC. So its not surprising that Young took fewer NFL starts to get up to speed than Trubisky.Richie wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:32 pm I guess Young is a model of what you hope Trubisky would/will be with that kind of skill-set.
The issue with the comp as far as trajectory, though. Is that Young only started 19 games in Tampa over two years. Less than half of the starts Mitch will have made at the end of his 3rd year.
Mitch will make his 40th start Sunday night vs KC. Steve Young's 40th start came during an all-pro 14-2 season where he led the league in practically everything (Literally everything... CMP%, TD's, TD%, INT%, Y/A, Y/C, QB Rating).
I still think he more closely resembles Tannehill. A great athlete that I just don't ever quite see grasping the nuances or fundamentals of the position. It seems like Mitch can only function in a totally perfect environment. The same has and continues to be true for Tannehill.
Tannehill (possibly) has finally figured something out at 31. But I shiver at the thought of being the team who gives Tannehill a Nick Foles type of contract. I think it will render the same results.
It just sounds like a great way of kicking the can down the road. You can always find an excuse. For any QB.
Mitch is soon going into his 4th year as a starting NFL QB (assuming he stays on as our starter). He's not a kid anymore.
I mean, if you want to get into how few starts Trubisky had in college. That's not really a favorable game to play for him either. Cam Newton is the closest thing to a "success story" following such little college playing time. Kurt Warner played only one year in college but then he had two full years as a starter at the Arena League level. Practically the best two seasons by an Arena League QB ever, for what that's worth.
It's a straw-man.G08 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:11 pmApparently this isn't common sense.wab wrote: ↑Tue Dec 17, 2019 5:25 pm “Mitch Trubisky reminds me a little of Steve Young when he plays” and “Mitch Trubisky’s statistics through X amount of games is strikingly similar to Drew Brees” is not the same as “OMG MITCH IS BASICALLY STEVE YOUNG AND DREW BREES SO HE’S GOING TO THE HOF”.
I don’t think this needs to be as complicated as everyone seems to want to make it.
No one who is refuting the "Drew Brees" or "Steve Young" comparisons is accusing you (or whomever) of having made the argument that "OMG MITCH IS BASICALLY STEVE YOUNG AND DREW BREES SO HE’S GOING TO THE HOF”. I have never viewed that as your point.
It's an over-simplification and mischaracterization of a viewpoint which makes it easier to dismiss. This tactic of debate gets utilized quite a bit by certain posters.
I don't believe you (or whomever) are saying that "Trubisky and Brees have similar numbers after 3 seasons. Therefore, Trubisky = Brees."
I believe you are using Brees as an example so you can say "Hey, look... it's happened. There's hope".
Now... I disagree with that point vehemently and believe it to be a horrible false-equivalency for a NUMBER of reasons. It's simply that you believing "Brees = Mitch" is not among my points of contention.
From there, I digress as I have no interest of going down that road for the 10th time.
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On this we agree. The can kicking with Mitch is over and my reason for that is the defense cannot be squandered. We have 2 or 3 years. This can't be a reverse Cutler situation where we have the defense, but then the QB fucks up.Richie wrote: ↑Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:20 pmHow long is long enough? Not 3 years? Not 40 starts? So... what is? 50 starts? 75 starts? 100 starts?
It just sounds like a great way of kicking the can down the road. You can always find an excuse. For any QB.
Mitch is soon going into his 4th year as a starting NFL QB (assuming he stays on as our starter). He's not a kid anymore.
Now to be fair about Mitch, this isn't 100% on him. There's no way that it is.
Nagy fucked this up big time. He allowed the Whitehair and Daniels switch to go on and linger, he waited on Kyle Long, he won't establish the run or play action to help take the burden off of Mitch, and he calls these maddening plays like Cohen or Patterson up the middle.
All of that negatively impacted Mitch's development. Now I'm not trying to hint that Mitch = GOAT if Nagy didn't fuck those things up, but those things did get fucked up.
Yet here we are. That's why I want Nagy gone and a new HC. Nagy is supposed to be the adult in the room. He's supposed to know better and quite frankly, to me, his list of fuckups is bigger than Mitch's.
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The fact of the matter is that there have been numerous examples of QBs who took more than 3 years to grow into being a quality NFL QB, which has already been discussed here. It sounds like that's not acceptable to you if that's Trubisky's path or that you've already decided he's not going to get there. You're entitled to your view.Richie wrote: ↑Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:20 pmHow long is long enough? Not 3 years? Not 40 starts? So... what is? 50 starts? 75 starts? 100 starts?
It just sounds like a great way of kicking the can down the road. You can always find an excuse. For any QB.
Mitch is soon going into his 4th year as a starting NFL QB (assuming he stays on as our starter). He's not a kid anymore.
I mean, if you want to get into how few starts Trubisky had in college. That's not really a favorable game to play for him either. Cam Newton is the closest thing to a "success story" following such little college playing time. Kurt Warner played only one year in college but then he had two full years as a starter at the Arena League level. Practically the best two seasons by an Arena League QB ever, for what that's worth.
But college starts do matter. It's part of the grading system used by college scouts. There's a reason why Bill Parcells insisted that he didn't want to draft a QB with fewer than some significant number of college starts. (27?) That's just reality.
You tried to compare Steve Young with 40 NFL starts to Biscuit with the same as if they were equal. I just pointed out why they weren't equal with a valid grading metric. I'm sorry if you don't like it. But there's no denying the validity of my logic. If you start a 100 yard dash 15 yards behind the starting line, it's pretty unlikely that you're going to catch up against a quality opponent. I'll concede that the longer the race, the less that differential matters and I can see that that's what you were getting at. But as quality NFL QB careers go, 3 years isn't always enough development time.
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It's never going to happen but now is the time to offer Trubisky a multi-year deal at a discount.
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It used to be traditional for a drafted QB to sit for 3 to 5 years behind the starter while the new guy learned the game. Aaron Rodgers sat behind Favre for several years. Trubisky may need more time to develop. Unfortunately, the Bears had one big job in 2019 and that was to determine if he would be their QB going forward and the team utterly failed. They've put themselves in a position of looking at competition, be it a high draft pick or a FA.
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I think that's a bit drastic. The team is exactly where they've always been with Mitch, stuck between a savvy QB who makes big plays and an unpolished liability who shouldn't be starting at the NFL level. They've been waiting for him to put together all the pieces and graduate into SOMETHING, but he's been as confusing, frustrating, impressive, and maddening as he's been since his name was called.
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Their big job was to advance deeper in the playoffs, hopefully into the Super Bowl while the defensive pieces were still in place. They need a QB who can either put the team on his shoulders or just play steady and make no mistakes (Brad Johnson/Trent Dilfer) while a basic offense scores enough to win. They still don’t know what they have with Mitch in his 3rd season.
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