Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter

[BR0D1E86]

For one week, at least, I didn’t feel like the offense was horribly hampered by the change. That is a hell of a defense, and 16-20 was always a pretty realistic upper range guess for the offense.

We’ll see when people start game planning for him again though.

[MoFugger]

I'm kind of surprised at people bagging on Trubisky.... not so much on ESPN, but on this freaking board. Are you all buying into the narrative that he's some bum?

What the hell is going on?

25/31 (80.6%) 231 yards 7.5 YPA 3 TDs 1 INT and a 116.5 rating. His throw to Taylor Gabriel was elite, but yes his INT to Norman was awful. Support your QB man, he's freaking young and is going to have his ups and downs.

Here's a Hall of Famer that entered year 2 of his current offense: through 4 games in that season he was 112/177 (63.28%), 929 yards 5.25 YPA 1 TD 9 INTs and a 57.4 rating.

Give. It. Time.

As I read this, Sarah Mclaughlin is singing softly in the background.

[southdakbearfan]

Daniels can run the offense and has proven he won't totally shit the bed. But he doesn't have enough arm to make all the throws and his scrambling is limited. The offense will be different and I fear it will make it harder on the running game which is 3 yards and a cloud of dust so far. I will say there pass blocking was pretty decent for the line they were going up against.

Nagy should have been kicked in the nuts for calling that QB run with him after biscuit was hurt.

[docc]

Bears QB Mitch Trubisky out with shoulder injury, should be able to play with harness
By video, he suffered a dislocated left shoulder. It appears the shoulder may have self-reduced as he was helped up while avoiding use of the left arm.

He was taken into the blue medical tent and then walked into the locker room for X-rays which should be negative.

The bone should be intact, but the labrum is likely torn.

Typically, this means surgery. But since it is Trubisky’s non-throwing shoulder, surgery can wait. He can play with a shoulder strap/harness. If it were his throwing shoulder his season would be done. (Blaine Gabbert similarly dislocated his non-throwing shoulder and was ultimately put on injured reserve by the Buccaneers.)

Even though he can play, an acute dislocation is quite painful and the risk of re-dislocation would be very high if he were to return Sunday. Indeed, Trubisky was ruled out today. He likely will miss the next week and possibly two. The Bears have put the rest of the game and likely more in Chase Daniel’s hands.

HOW THE HELL Does a San Diego report mean anything ??
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sp ... er-harness

[Moriarty]

Bears QB Mitch Trubisky out with shoulder injury, should be able to play with harness
By video, he suffered a dislocated left shoulder. It appears the shoulder may have self-reduced as he was helped up while avoiding use of the left arm.

He was taken into the blue medical tent and then walked into the locker room for X-rays which should be negative.

The bone should be intact, but the labrum is likely torn.

Typically, this means surgery. But since it is Trubisky’s non-throwing shoulder, surgery can wait. He can play with a shoulder strap/harness. If it were his throwing shoulder his season would be done. (Blaine Gabbert similarly dislocated his non-throwing shoulder and was ultimately put on injured reserve by the Buccaneers.)

Even though he can play, an acute dislocation is quite painful and the risk of re-dislocation would be very high if he were to return Sunday. Indeed, Trubisky was ruled out today. He likely will miss the next week and possibly two. The Bears have put the rest of the game and likely more in Chase Daniel’s hands.

HOW THE HELL Does a San Diego report mean anything ??
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sp ... er-harness

The San Diego Union-Tribune’s ProFootballDoc is Dr. David Chao, a board certified orthopaedic surgeon/sports medicine specialist who spent 17 years (1997-2013) as the head team physician for the San Diego Chargers. He is the current SiriusXM Sports Medical Analyst and appears regularly on the NFL channel. He has also served as Chief Medical Officer for more than two dozen summer and winter X games, team physician for the USA Sevens Rugby team, medical consultant for WWE, host physician for the U.S. Olympic Committee and has consulted with the NBA, MLB and NHL. He has performed surgeries on several hundred NFL players. Chao attended Harvard before receiving his medical degree from Northwestern School of Medicine at Chicago. He moved to San Diego in 1995 and continues to practice at OasisMD.

I'm highly skeptical that he can be as sure of himself as he's making it sound in his article, but he does certainly have creds.

[Richie]

Bears QB Mitch Trubisky out with shoulder injury, should be able to play with harness
By video, he suffered a dislocated left shoulder. It appears the shoulder may have self-reduced as he was helped up while avoiding use of the left arm.

He was taken into the blue medical tent and then walked into the locker room for X-rays which should be negative.

The bone should be intact, but the labrum is likely torn.

Typically, this means surgery. But since it is Trubisky’s non-throwing shoulder, surgery can wait. He can play with a shoulder strap/harness. If it were his throwing shoulder his season would be done. (Blaine Gabbert similarly dislocated his non-throwing shoulder and was ultimately put on injured reserve by the Buccaneers.)

Even though he can play, an acute dislocation is quite painful and the risk of re-dislocation would be very high if he were to return Sunday. Indeed, Trubisky was ruled out today. He likely will miss the next week and possibly two. The Bears have put the rest of the game and likely more in Chase Daniel’s hands.

HOW THE HELL Does a San Diego report mean anything ??
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sp ... er-harness

The San Diego Union-Tribune’s ProFootballDoc is Dr. David Chao, a board certified orthopaedic surgeon/sports medicine specialist who spent 17 years (1997-2013) as the head team physician for the San Diego Chargers. He is the current SiriusXM Sports Medical Analyst and appears regularly on the NFL channel. He has also served as Chief Medical Officer for more than two dozen summer and winter X games, team physician for the USA Sevens Rugby team, medical consultant for WWE, host physician for the U.S. Olympic Committee and has consulted with the NBA, MLB and NHL. He has performed surgeries on several hundred NFL players. Chao attended Harvard before receiving his medical degree from Northwestern School of Medicine at Chicago. He moved to San Diego in 1995 and continues to practice at OasisMD.

I'm highly skeptical that he can be as sure of himself as he's making it sound in his article, but he does certainly have creds.

My creds are that I suffered two labrum tears during my college baseball career (the final of which is still torn) and I see absolutely no reason that Mitch shouldn't be able to play through one in his non throwing shoulder.

But everyone is different, I suppose.

[UOK]

[wab]

Ugh.

[G08]

[G08]

@Richie can you give us some info on what you think his limitations will be, if any, as a QB dealing with this injury? Any long-term issues, etc?

[Boris13c]

I thought Mitch broke his arm when I first saw the replay ... looked like his elbow and upper arm moved in a less than healthy way

if it is a shoulder dislocation only, that is actually good news ... a little healing time, a little rehab, and he is back in business

not sure about the whole playing with a harness thing that was mentioned ...
I would rather he sit out a few weeks to get healthy



* edited because I was incorrect on on which shoulder was hurt

[docc]

Left shoulder injury..not throwing arm. As some others here my last year in college pitcher I played with torn labrum. Hurt my glove arm and generally pitched and played corners. But in football..that left side will be a target for blind side tackle.

[UOK]

Left shoulder injury..not throwing arm. As some others here my last year in college pitcher I played with torn labrum. Hurt my glove arm and generally pitched and played corners. But in football..that left side will be a target for blind side tackle.

That's the bitch. Basically Trubisky can't take a hit on that side or else that surgery he'd put off will come much sooner.

Miller played through a dislocated shoulder his rookie year and got by (sorta). Mitch, well, I don't know.

[UOK]

[wab]

Just sit him and let Chase Daniel ride the defense until Chase's limitations are exposed.

[UOK]

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

I just saw that come across on Bleacher Report. That's good news. Watching the replay, and having had multiple discussions with my surgeon about my shoulder. I thought it was a torn labrum when it happened. However as others have alluded to. What happens the first time he gets hit? Is he going to be as aggressive in scrambling out of the pocket? It's going to make a shaky, skitterish QB, even more so. Don't think that's a good thing.

[The Marshall Plan]

That’s got future meme written all over it.

Anyway, glad this is something that potentially could get played through. Daniel is gonna be Daniel and I think that ceiling is just high enough to not annihilate the season. Luckily other teams like the Saints who we play have similar (and honestly bigger issues) with their QB being hurt. In the near term we can still beat the Raiders, Saints and Chargers.

[wab]

Man, I hate twitter. All I've read is how the Bears are better with Chase. Now...I like Chase. He has been behind some pretty good (and durable) QB's in his career. His physical limitations prevent him from being anything except a spot starter that won't harpoon your season. He's exactly what you hope your backup QB can be.

But the Bears are not better with him on the field. Not in the short term, and not in the long term.

Mitch Trubiskly against the Skins: 81% completion percentage, 231 yards, 3 TDs, 1 INT, 116.5 rating. Bears win 31-15 and Washington scores garbage points because the Bears lay off the gas at the wrong time.

Narritive: OMG, Mitch will never develop and is killing this team’s chance at a super bowl! He's not doing what he's supposed to do. We need him to throw for 4 TDs and 350 yards per game because Mahomes is doing it! He can’t waste the defense like that! We need him to be more than Trent Dilfer!

Chase Daniel against the Vikings: 73% completion percentage, 195 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT, 101.4 rating. Bears win 16-6 and Minny mounts a small comeback because the Bears lay off the gas at the wrong time.

Narritive: OMG, the offense is so much better suited for Chase, and the Bears chances at a super bowl are better with him! He did what he was supposed to do. We don’t need him to throw for 4 TDs and 350 yards per game because the defense can keep us in every game! We just need him to be Trent Dilfer!

Never mind that Daniel has been in some version of this offense for 11 years, and this EXACT offense for 8 of them. In fact, for a guy that can run this offense in his sleep, putting up one TD with all those redzone trips should be concerning.

Yes...he’s gritty, fairly accurate when he can see the lanes, careful with the ball, and efficient from the pocket. He’s also athletically limited, has a below average arm, and is not a playmaker. The Bears can win with him for now, and I suppose that's all that should matter.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

Man, I hate twitter. All I've read is how the Bears are better with Chase. Now...I like Chase. He has been behind some pretty good (and durable) QB's in his career. His physical limitations prevent him from being anything except a spot starter that won't harpoon your season. He's exactly what you hope your backup QB can be.

But the Bears are not better with him on the field. Not in the short term, and not in the long term.

Mitch Trubiskly against the Skins: 81% completion percentage, 231 yards, 3 TDs, 1 INT, 116.5 rating. Bears win 31-15 and Washington scores garbage points because the Bears lay off the gas at the wrong time.

Narritive: OMG, Mitch will never develop and is killing this team’s chance at a super bowl! He's not doing what he's supposed to do. We need him to throw for 4 TDs and 350 yards per game because Mahomes is doing it! He can’t waste the defense like that! We need him to be more than Trent Dilfer!

Chase Daniel against the Vikings: 73% completion percentage, 195 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT, 101.4 rating. Bears win 16-6 and Minny mounts a small comeback because the Bears lay off the gas at the wrong time.

Narritive: OMG, the offense is so much better suited for Chase, and the Bears chances at a super bowl are better with him! He did what he was supposed to do. We don’t need him to throw for 4 TDs and 350 yards per game because the defense can keep us in every game! We just need him to be Trent Dilfer!

Never mind that Daniel has been in some version of this offense for 11 years, and this EXACT offense for 8 of them. In fact, for a guy that can run this offense in his sleep, putting up one TD with all those redzone trips should be concerning.

Yes...he’s gritty, fairly accurate when he can see the lanes, careful with the ball, and efficient from the pocket. He’s also athletically limited, has a below average arm, and is not a playmaker. The Bears can win with him for now, and I suppose that's all that should matter.

WAB! You know damn well that this sort of logic and clear thinking has NO PLACE amongst hard core meatball fans (myself included). I am offended that you would presume to think that I should look at it that way.

UOK. Where’s the ban hammer??

[thunderspirit]

Man, I hate twitter. All I've read is how the Bears are better with Chase. Now...I like Chase. He has been behind some pretty good (and durable) QB's in his career. His physical limitations prevent him from being anything except a spot starter that won't harpoon your season. He's exactly what you hope your backup QB can be.

But the Bears are not better with him on the field. Not in the short term, and not in the long term.

Mitch Trubiskly against the Skins: 81% completion percentage, 231 yards, 3 TDs, 1 INT, 116.5 rating. Bears win 31-15 and Washington scores garbage points because the Bears lay off the gas at the wrong time.

Narritive: OMG, Mitch will never develop and is killing this team’s chance at a super bowl! He's not doing what he's supposed to do. We need him to throw for 4 TDs and 350 yards per game because Mahomes is doing it! He can’t waste the defense like that! We need him to be more than Trent Dilfer!

Chase Daniel against the Vikings: 73% completion percentage, 195 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT, 101.4 rating. Bears win 16-6 and Minny mounts a small comeback because the Bears lay off the gas at the wrong time.

Narritive: OMG, the offense is so much better suited for Chase, and the Bears chances at a super bowl are better with him! He did what he was supposed to do. We don’t need him to throw for 4 TDs and 350 yards per game because the defense can keep us in every game! We just need him to be Trent Dilfer!

Never mind that Daniel has been in some version of this offense for 11 years, and this EXACT offense for 8 of them. In fact, for a guy that can run this offense in his sleep, putting up one TD with all those redzone trips should be concerning.

Yes...he’s gritty, fairly accurate when he can see the lanes, careful with the ball, and efficient from the pocket. He’s also athletically limited, has a below average arm, and is not a playmaker. The Bears can win with him for now, and I suppose that's all that should matter.

wab says everything I think and then some.

Daniel will get exposed because he's a capable backup with significant physical limitations. The hope is that it takes a bit for that to happen, but it is going to happen.

[Mikefive]

Man, I hate twitter. All I've read is how the Bears are better with Chase. Now...I like Chase. He has been behind some pretty good (and durable) QB's in his career. His physical limitations prevent him from being anything except a spot starter that won't harpoon your season. He's exactly what you hope your backup QB can be.

But the Bears are not better with him on the field. Not in the short term, and not in the long term.

Mitch Trubiskly against the Skins: 81% completion percentage, 231 yards, 3 TDs, 1 INT, 116.5 rating. Bears win 31-15 and Washington scores garbage points because the Bears lay off the gas at the wrong time.

Narritive: OMG, Mitch will never develop and is killing this team’s chance at a super bowl! He's not doing what he's supposed to do. We need him to throw for 4 TDs and 350 yards per game because Mahomes is doing it! He can’t waste the defense like that! We need him to be more than Trent Dilfer!

Chase Daniel against the Vikings: 73% completion percentage, 195 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT, 101.4 rating. Bears win 16-6 and Minny mounts a small comeback because the Bears lay off the gas at the wrong time.

Narritive: OMG, the offense is so much better suited for Chase, and the Bears chances at a super bowl are better with him! He did what he was supposed to do. We don’t need him to throw for 4 TDs and 350 yards per game because the defense can keep us in every game! We just need him to be Trent Dilfer!

Never mind that Daniel has been in some version of this offense for 11 years, and this EXACT offense for 8 of them. In fact, for a guy that can run this offense in his sleep, putting up one TD with all those redzone trips should be concerning.

Yes...he’s gritty, fairly accurate when he can see the lanes, careful with the ball, and efficient from the pocket. He’s also athletically limited, has a below average arm, and is not a playmaker. The Bears can win with him for now, and I suppose that's all that should matter.

I've heard some Bear fans say how much more smoothly the offense operated with Daniel. I'm not sure what they're smoking. Sure, some aspects were a bit better. But Daniel isn't much of a run threat. And we scored 16 points with our defense holding them to a lot of short drives. Sixteen. That's no significant improvement.

I kinda wished we saw Daniel surgically operate the offense. That way Mitch could see how it's supposed to be done and use it as a learning experience. Of course, the OL play wasn't great for Chase either. So there's that.

[Mr.Irrelevant]

Daniel is the definition of a game manager. Take what the defense gives you and don't be stupid.

You can win a Super Bowl with a game manager, if you have two other attributes: a GREAT defense and a VERY good running game. We have the defense, but the running game isn't going to cut it.

To win the Super Bowl we need our QB to be that guy who can win some games with his own ability. (Buying some time in the pocket, making the great deep throw., running for a key first down) While Mitch isn't there yet, he's much more likely to develop into that guy than Daniel is.

I predict Oakland and the teams that follow will bring extra pressure, take away the short stuff and make Daniel beat them over the top.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

The putrid running game has been at least as disappointing as Mitch's performances in the early part of this season. In fact, it is undoubtedly a significant factor in why Mitch has been disappointing.

Whereas Mitch showed signs of improvement against Washington, the running game continues to suck. It's not going to do Daniel any favours.

[UOK]

Daniel is the definition of a game manager. Take what the defense gives you and don't be stupid.

*WSCR callers orgasm in unison*

[Richie]

@Richie can you give us some info on what you think his limitations will be, if any, as a QB dealing with this injury? Any long-term issues, etc?

Well, first thing is first. That dislocation needs to set and whatever swelling needs to subside. This not something I dealt with. However, this is likely what is keeping him out vs Oakland. Not the labrum. Especially seeing as it is only a partial tear.

Here's a brief summary of what the labrum is and its basic function:

The shoulder labrum is a piece of soft cartilage in the socket-shaped joint in your shoulder bone. It cups the ball-shaped joint at the top of your upper arm bone, connecting the two joints.

A group of four muscles called the rotator cuff helps the labrum keep the ball in the socket. This allows your upper arm to rotate.

The day I found out my labrum was torn. I went out to warm-up for a game and I threw a ball as I usually would to a teammate... and it just went straight into the ground. I kept trying (hoping it was a muscular thing and I would loosen up) but it continued to render the same result. It did not hurt really. It just didn't work and you could feel something wasn't all together in there. My ability to throw was just gone. Not hindered... gone. If I had to throw a baseball 100 feet to save my life, I couldn't.

I went to the same orthopedic who had done my knee surgery a couple of years prior. Told me I had a torn labrum. I asked if I could post-pone the surgery and DH the rest of my season. He said I could hit and that I wouldn't hurt it further.

I did so with no pain. My range of motion was just slightly limited. So, when finishing my swing, I could not extend my arm out and back around my left shoulder. I had to change my swing from holding two hands on the bat the entire way (think Pete Alonso) to a top-hand release (think Kris Bryant).

A way they could tell it was torn before my MRI even was having me reach both hands back behind me and reaching up my back. Kind of like you are scratching yourself. My right hand could only go halfway up my back or slightly less. My left went like 2/3's of the way up my back.

The only time I feel something is if I do a quick punching kind of a motion for some reason or go to push something overhead. It just feels like the shoulder loosens for a moment and resets. I lift weights 4-5 days a week. I have a 2nd part-time gig as a personal trainer and I lead full body boot camp fitness classes. I never feel a thing. It's just those odd/awkward moments you don't expect where a pinch comes. But that's all it is... a pinch.

The range-of-motion aspect should not hinder Trubisky because it's his non-throwing shoulder. The only concern would be his arm getting caught in a compromised position once again (going to the ground or trying to push/straight arm a defender) and it comes out of the socket. The odds of this happening to me swinging a bat in a non-contact sport was slim-to-none. In football, there's clearly a bit of a risk. If you recall, Miller's shoulder came out a few times last year. The harness will help his shoulder stay in place. He should avoid reaching out to break his fall the best he can and just roll on the ground with the hit.

I don't tend to worry about Mitch with this injury. If it was his throwing shoulder, it would be very bad. This won't have him in pain and it won't hinder what makes him effective. It's really just about avoiding another awkward hit.

Hope this helps you understand the injury a bit.

[IE]

Hey Ritchie great post. What do you know about the harnesses these days? Are they totally restrictive on range of motion to fully protect the shoulder from popping? Or are they more flexible and just adding pressure/strength to support the shoulder (can allow a range of motion comfortably but it could pop)?

I have had a dislocating shoulder since I was 18 (snowmobile accident). I never had it "fixed" because I was never a serious athlete. But it did prevent me from being able to fully extend while playing intramural hoops and such in college. And the few times I tried skiiing it would pop if I ever fell (which sucked). When I saw Miller on a few of those catches last year, I could almost literally feel what he was feeling - because that continuing weakness and popping happened to me several dozen times over the years. I'm wondering what Mitch's shoulder is going to feel like with the harness on. Will he feel restricted and fully protected but potentially not feel overall as flexible or capable physically because of the harness? Or will it still feel loose to him like he needs to really be conscious about protecting it? Or if he will feel pretty much normal physically (even though we know he'll still need to protect it)? Just curious about how it will feel to him.

[Bad Flanders]

So, I was lucky enough to be at that game and we watched all through warm ups. Trubisky was dropping dimes 40 yards out. Maybe that's the way he always is in practice, I have no idea. But 5 wrs lined up and ran out routes to about the 35-40 yard line and Mitch was standing on the goal line and he put 4 out of the 5 in the basket in stride. It was impressive. I was excited to see him play. But on the flip side, he didn't need to roll out on the play he got hurt at all, just step up and hit Miller, instead he bailed early and kind of did it to himself... who the heck knows what they've got but I'm sure willing to let the kid keep going, the arm talent is there and I think the kid will only get stronger in the crucible.

[Mikefive]

I'm surprised there's no talk about how being out will push back his development. That's a reality that's not good. Maybe he can watch tape and that will help the light come on sooner. But that's a real maybe. Hopefully he'll be well enough to play after the bye. But better safe than sorry.

[Moriarty]

Orton isn’t “the obvious choice” or anything, but there’s nothing at all unreasonable about him being your favorite out of that pack.

Not directed at you specifically, but this is why I hate sects of our fanbase.

I've reread my post and don't see anything that's really very arguable at all.

What specific part are you objecting to?

In the last 20 years,
• Orton had a career rating in the low 80s. Although that was pulled down significantly by 1 awful rookie year. Aside from that, he was a high 80s type guy.
• Cutler had a career rating in the high 80s.
• Mitch currently has a career rating in the high 80s.
(Brian Hoyer had better numbers, but only 5 Bear starts)
(Josh McCown had better numbers, but only 7 Bear starts)

Orton has the benefit of being the longest ago, so passing rules weren’t quite as cushy and numbers weren’t as high then.
Orton also has the benefit of coming cheaply and being a pleasant surprise, whereas Cutler was expensive and greatly failed to meet expectations, and Mitch was expensive and is currently faltering on expectations.

Orton isn’t “the obvious choice” or anything, but there’s nothing at all unreasonable about him being your favorite out of that pack.