Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter

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Re: Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter

Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:26 pm

southdakbearfan wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:08 pm

I would disagree with about 80-90% of this. Fine: that's what discussion boards are for.

Cam has sucked for a long while worse than Mitch with better talent around him. I have my doubts about how much Cam has left--he's been a guy that succeeded almost purely on competitive athletic talent and now his shoulder is iffy--never been a touch passer--also questions with his foot and back. But IF he heals and hasn't fallen off much, he clearly was a better player than Mitch.

Fits is a turnover machine. Yeah, he turns it over too much especially taking chances on bad teams, but if you believe Mitch could have played that well on a bad Miami team, you're nuts. Fitz is a MUCH smarter QB. Almost as good a runner, about equal as a passer. Better leader. No way Mitch beats him out in Miami. If the Bears had Fitz last year, I believe they would have made a wild card because Fitz wouldn't have put up as many stinkers.

Winston is the most turnover prone qb ever. Yep--he turns it over way too much with picks and fumbles--much more than Mitch--but he is a much better passer. Still only 25. I just believe he's a better player that would win an open competition.

Taylor is an ok backup with no hope for more. Agree, Taylor is a marginal starter that probably maintains as a career backup--but that's what Mitch has mostly played at, so it would be a battle

Haskins has been really bad but might have potential. Played as a rookie on a lousy team. Haskins is no more than a good prospect with the question marks I mentioned. But Mitch has played 2 more seasons and still has plenty of question marks, so who knows?
I stand on my belief that Mitch would clearly start for VERY few teams that didn't draft him.

Wonder what his trade value would be if they shopped him? I doubt much value. What would you hazard to guess?
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Re: Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter

Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:18 pm

Mitch would probably pull similar value to Josh Rosen's trade to Miami, maybe a tad less since since he's a more known commodity. Third rounder would probably work.
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Re: Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter

Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:19 pm

Drone7 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:26 pm
southdakbearfan wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:08 pm

I would disagree with about 80-90% of this. Fine: that's what discussion boards are for.

Cam has sucked for a long while worse than Mitch with better talent around him. I have my doubts about how much Cam has left--he's been a guy that succeeded almost purely on competitive athletic talent and now his shoulder is iffy--never been a touch passer--also questions with his foot and back. But IF he heals and hasn't fallen off much, he clearly was a better player than Mitch.

Fits is a turnover machine. Yeah, he turns it over too much especially taking chances on bad teams, but if you believe Mitch could have played that well on a bad Miami team, you're nuts. Fitz is a MUCH smarter QB. Almost as good a runner, about equal as a passer. Better leader. No way Mitch beats him out in Miami. If the Bears had Fitz last year, I believe they would have made a wild card because Fitz wouldn't have put up as many stinkers.

Winston is the most turnover prone qb ever. Yep--he turns it over way too much with picks and fumbles--much more than Mitch--but he is a much better passer. Still only 25. I just believe he's a better player that would win an open competition.

Taylor is an ok backup with no hope for more. Agree, Taylor is a marginal starter that probably maintains as a career backup--but that's what Mitch has mostly played at, so it would be a battle

Haskins has been really bad but might have potential. Played as a rookie on a lousy team. Haskins is no more than a good prospect with the question marks I mentioned. But Mitch has played 2 more seasons and still has plenty of question marks, so who knows?
I stand on my belief that Mitch would clearly start for VERY few teams that didn't draft him.

Wonder what his trade value would be if they shopped him? I doubt much value. What would you hazard to guess?
Very little. Of the teams needing a starting QB, he might be of interest only to those drafting a QB who don’t have a veteran already on staff. Cincy, Chargers, Dolphins and they have options at least as good and don’t need him. Carolina if they dump Newton, their cupboard is bare. He makes too much for a backup. A 6th if someone was feeling generous.
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Re: Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter

Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:57 am

Am I the only one at this point that is convinced that the Bears are going to fuck up the QB position yet again. Pace has said, "we have faith in Mitch, but we're not picking up his 5th year option." Effectively creating a lame duck QB, and setting the franchise up for yet another overhaul at the top of the org. We've already said that we don't have the money to go QB hunting in FA, and even if we do, what message does that send to Trubisky? "We have faith in you...just not that much." That's a solid way to start the year.

I have to admit, I'm quickly losing interest in this franchise. I've spent 20 years cheering my heart out (I know, I know, some of you have been going for much longer), and have seen next to nothing for my loyalty. One botched trip to the Super Bowl, a couple of lame trips to the playoffs, and a cascade of shitty QB's.
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Re: Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter

Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:06 am

He didn't say they weren't picking up the 5th year option (yet). He said they'd make that decision (or make that decision public) in May when the deadline is closer.

Has anyone run the cost comparison of what the difference would be between picking up a 5th year option vs a Franchise tag for a year?
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Re: Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter

Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:45 am

I don't understand the downside of picking up the option, can someone fill me in? If we can just cut him and free up the money then what's the risk (other than the injury guarantee, which feels like a fairly minor risk IMO)
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Re: Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter

Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:07 am

“We believe in him, we believe in the player, we believe in the person, we believe in the trajectory that he’s on,” Pace said.

But Secret Agent Man wouldn't commit to the 5th year yet... :roll:
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Re: Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter

Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:10 am

I guess I'm not sure why it matters if he does or doesn't tell fans that he is or isn't picking up the option (they will pick up the option).
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Re: Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter

Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:10 am

dplank wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:45 am
I don't understand the downside of picking up the option, can someone fill me in? If we can just cut him and free up the money then what's the risk (other than the injury guarantee, which feels like a fairly minor risk IMO)
It’s how the Niners got stuck paying kaep an extra year via a shoulder injury.

You could transition tag him if you want to keep him for virtually the same money an have zero injury risk.
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Re: Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter

Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:08 am

Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:57 am
I have to admit, I'm quickly losing interest in this franchise. I've spent 20 years cheering my heart out (I know, I know, some of you have been going for much longer), and have seen next to nothing for my loyalty. One botched trip to the Super Bowl, a couple of lame trips to the playoffs, and a cascade of shitty QB's.

Right there with you BWN. Hopefully they get their shit together this season, and fast
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Re: Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter

Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:29 am

The 5YO is 23M and the franchise tag is 27M. Not a big savings, which explains much of the lack of urgency.
Also, I would disagree with the injury risk on the 5YO as minor. 23M to someone who won't contribute due to injury is crippling.
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Re: Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter

Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:49 pm

wab wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:10 am
I guess I'm not sure why it matters if he does or doesn't tell fans that he is or isn't picking up the option (they will pick up the option).
It's because it doesn't.

Maybe they love a kid in the draft, maybe they want to trade for Derek Carr. Too much unknown right now. I'll be fucking relieved once free agency gets here so we can get an idea about what they're thinking.

My hunch is Case Keenum as QB2 and maybe -- MAYBE -- a day 3 draft pick.

First 41 starts in NFL (updated weekly):

Drew Brees: 61.2% | 8261 yards | 52 TDs | 37 INTs | 6.60 YPA | 82.2 rating

Mitch Trubisky: 63.4% | 8554 yards | 48 TDs | 29 INTs | 6.7 YPA | 85.8 rating
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Re: Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter

Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:13 pm

Kyle Long said that Mitchell would come out on fire; that should be all Pace needs to know. :headbang:
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Re: Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter

Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:20 pm

G08 wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:49 pm
wab wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:10 am
I guess I'm not sure why it matters if he does or doesn't tell fans that he is or isn't picking up the option (they will pick up the option).
It's because it doesn't.

Maybe they love a kid in the draft, maybe they want to trade for Derek Carr. Too much unknown right now. I'll be fucking relieved once free agency gets here so we can get an idea about what they're thinking.

My hunch is Case Keenum as QB2 and maybe -- MAYBE -- a day 3 draft pick.
That's my expectation as well. If a realistic Carr trade presents itself, I want it. But it won't. If this thing is going to fail, next year is a far more realistic time to address the issue in a meaningful way.
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Re: Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter

Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:28 pm

Moriarty wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:29 am
The 5YO is 23M and the franchise tag is 27M. Not a big savings, which explains much of the lack of urgency.
Also, I would disagree with the injury risk on the 5YO as minor. 23M to someone who won't contribute due to injury is crippling.
Transition tag would be about the same as a 5th year option.

This is why I thought it was stupid to pick up the option on Floyd as well.

If he breaks out, tag him, work out a long term deal, if not cut and run.
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Re: Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter

Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:58 pm

IE wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:54 pm
Yeah - there are so many variables. They can be used to defend 10, or we could say look at those struggles across the board and label him as the common variable and core part of the problem. For example, Carr did put up 4000 yards, 69% completions and a 94 rating with an absymal Oline in '18. And he turned 6th round journeyman Waller into Kelce-light this past year when he had no other receivers. Carr makes chicken shit into chicken salad.

Me personally? I tend to be in the camp that a good QB makes people around him better more than the concept of the QB as a victim of the endless flaws of everyone around him. You have the ball in your hand, dude. Tell the guy where you want him. Tell the guy where he's missing blocks. Lead. See what is going on & react. Change the play and defend the reason why to your coach. Good QBs are in charge. Maybe Mitch is doing all that but then when it comes to the moment he throws it right into the lumberyard, Danny. I don't know if you can coach chicken salad.

I honestly don't know what to make of Nagy. I find myself hating him sometimes and hopeful about him other times. I hope his genius ends up outweighing his stubbornness.
IE, you are like a much smarter me from another Universe.

I very much question Nagy. I call him "Razzle Dazzle" because it seems like he calls plays to "show off" his genius as opposed to winning football.
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Re: Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter

Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:50 pm

If it weren't for Nagy's genius our guys would have come in 32nd instead of 29th.
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Re: Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter

Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:25 am

G08 wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:49 pm

My hunch is Case Keenum as QB2 and maybe -- MAYBE -- a day 3 draft pick.
I'd be good with this...
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 5 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
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Re: Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter

Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:46 am

dplank wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:25 am
G08 wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:49 pm

My hunch is Case Keenum as QB2 and maybe -- MAYBE -- a day 3 draft pick.
I'd be good with this...
Keenum is a slight upgrade over Daniel, but he's a marginal starter (more career backup) if pressed into duty. Day 3 draft pick? Slight chance of becoming a starter or even reliable backup.. So this "solution" is really not. It would signal that Trubisky is being handed the job on a platter again.

I'll believe they are serious about genuine competition when they declare the job open and give whatever backup is brought in equal reps with the starters.

It will be very interesting to see how Nagy handles preseason reps after his complacent attitude last year.
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Re: Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter

Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:48 am

It's a solution in line with where I believe the GM and head coach's collective mind are right now. Trubisky is your starter -- Pace said as much (he could be lying, of course) -- and he was adamant about upgrading the talent around the QB.

I believe we'll see resources allocated to that side of the ball, I'm of the opinion we will be in the Henry/Hooper/Ebron sweepstakes and QB2 will either be a veteran with starting experience in the league or Nate Sudfeld (DeFilippo loves him).

First 41 starts in NFL (updated weekly):

Drew Brees: 61.2% | 8261 yards | 52 TDs | 37 INTs | 6.60 YPA | 82.2 rating

Mitch Trubisky: 63.4% | 8554 yards | 48 TDs | 29 INTs | 6.7 YPA | 85.8 rating
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Re: Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter

Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:49 am

I keep coming back to the issue of what type of QB is Nagy looking for. I went back to what type of offense he planned to run in Chicago from when he was hired. It by John Mullin but has applicability:

What will Matt Nagy's passing offense look like with the Bears?
By John Mullin July 17, 2018 3:00 PM

First of two parts.

Looking ahead to training camp and what everyone will be looking at – it will help to have even a cursory idea of the offensive elements that coach Matt Nagy is incorporating, particularly in the passing game — because the when, where and how the Bears will be throwing the football is changing. NBC Sports Chicago focuses on a selection of specifics and their origins within that part of the offense that fans will notice, first in Bourbonnais and then in the 2018 season.

Bears coach Matt Nagy and offensive coordinator Mark Helfrich have initiated a monumental makeover of the Bears’ offense, some effects of which should be evident sooner rather than later, if for no other reason than the quarterback and receiver group project to be noticeably better than the tools at the disposal of John Fox and Dowell Loggains.

But the changes run deeper than personnel.

“We’re going to continue to do some of the things that we did in Kansas City,” Nagy said not long after his hiring, “but we’re also going to grow. We’re going to create our own identity.”

Nothing should suggest that the 2018 Bears will ascend to the Kansas City Chiefs’ offensive heights (multiple top-10 statistical rankings, including points (No. 6) and yards (No. 5) per game) in the short term. However, if it takes five years for the Bears to reach those levels, as it did for the Chiefs to do so under Andy Reid, the prospects of Nagy and GM Ryan Pace still being around to see it are problematic. Meaning: Changes will be noticeable immediately.

The complexities of the Nagy/Helfrich iteration of the time-honored West Coast offense are too much to chronicle in one analysis, and they won’t be immediately apparent to the naked eye. For one thing, if civilians could pick it up that easily, it wouldn’t have survived the decades of distinguished defensive coordinators assailing it. Also, if it were that simple, Mitch Trubisky wouldn’t have needed to work as hard at it as he has for some months now. A prime directive in all of this is precisely that the offense is NOT easy to figure out.

For another reason, regardless of how many years he apprenticed under Reid in Philadelphia and Kansas City, Nagy’s offense will be uniquely his, not merely a Reid clone. Reid did not simply run the Bill Walsh playbook; he authored his own edition. Similarly, not all of the clues to the Nagy offense can be found looking at 2017 Chiefs film. Nagy brings a different and expanded offensive scheme to the Bears, with Helfrich in a complementary role.

But the past is often prologue. Nagy’s NFL experience has all been within the parameters of Reid’s framework, and Helfrich has never coached against an NFL defense. So a reasonable expectation is that Nagy and Helfrich build out from a Reid foundation, but customizing it with personal preferences and with an eye toward molding it to the collective skillset of Trubisky and the rest of the offensive components.

To gain a preliminary, superficial understanding of what Nagy’s offense is about, look to Nagy’s past, the West Coast roots that Nagy incorporates in his work.

With his own modifications. As in:

“I think if you compare the old-school West Coast offense, where the three-step [dropback-passing] game was the extension of the run, and they’re looking for the yards after the catch, the ‘YAC’ yards,” Nagy said, “now you look at our offense which is more of the RPO [run-pass-option] stuff. You’re sort of getting the same thing, but now you’re mixing in run and pass on the same play.”

The Walsh influences

At its core, the West Coast offense uses the pass to set up the run, and uses the pass as a device for ball control – something of a departure from recent Bears offenses, although Marc Trestman based much of his scheme around that premise.

Actually the West Coast offense is misnamed and should’ve gone into NFL lore as the “Ohio River offense,” or something reflective of the fact that Bill Walsh formulated many of the concepts while an assistant with the expansion Cincinnati Bengals 50 years ago. Walsh came from the vertical passing game espoused by the Oakland Raiders, his first NFL employer, but was forced in Cincinnati to adapt to the arm limitations of Virgil Carter, who stepped in as starter when strong-armed Greg Cook suffered what was effectively a career-ending arm injury. Walsh exploited the defense horizontally, not simply vertically.

With Trubisky, Nagy won’t be constrained by arm limitations. Trubisky has the deep arm and has speed with Taylor Gabriel, Anthony Miller and Kevin White.

But like any coach or assistant, Walsh wanted ball control but approached it through the pass, not the run, as explained in his “Controlling the ball with the pass” written in 1979. “To do that.” Walsh wrote, “we have to have versatility – versatility in the action and types of passes thrown by the quarterback.” Nagy subscribes to the notion of ball control using the pass, not solely the run.

Walsh espoused three passing concepts:

• drop-back passes, typically with short drops and quick releases;

• play-action passes, which in Nagy’s scheme can take the form of run-pass-option plays besides the conventional fake handoff on the way to a drop-back;

• and what Walsh termed the “action pass” where the quarterback moves outside to negate a rush, change the trajectory of a throw or shorten the throw to a targeted receiver.

Ex-quarterback Nagy has a full grasp of and appreciation for all three, particularly the action pass, and it begins with his own awareness of history. Within even a brief conversation about his offensive tenets, Nagy brings up one of the great plays in NFL history, one Walsh built into the San Francisco 49ers scheme, one that may have looked like a broken play, but was anything but.

“’The Catch’” was a movement play, ‘Q-8,’” Nagy said, recalling the Joe Montana pass to the late Dwight Clark against the Dallas Cowboys to win the 1981 NFC Championship game. “Montana sprinted out. That’s an old-school West Coast play, and we have that play. That’s a movement play. We do have movements; we don’t live in that world but we want to have that.”


Doesn't seem as if Nagy has implemented these ideas in great depth and didn't implement other elements of the West Coast/RPO schemes. Walsh never abandoned the run, San Fran with Roger Craig actually had a pretty good running attack. Andy Reid uses the run also. So, is Trubisky just unable to pick up these Nagy's concepts, keeping him from fully implementing his offense?
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Re: Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter

Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:40 pm

Grizzled wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:49 am
I keep coming back to the issue of what type of QB is Nagy looking for. I went back to what type of offense he planned to run in Chicago from when he was hired. It by John Mullin but has applicability:

What will Matt Nagy's passing offense look like with the Bears?
By John Mullin July 17, 2018 3:00 PM

First of two parts.

Looking ahead to training camp and what everyone will be looking at – it will help to have even a cursory idea of the offensive elements that coach Matt Nagy is incorporating, particularly in the passing game — because the when, where and how the Bears will be throwing the football is changing. NBC Sports Chicago focuses on a selection of specifics and their origins within that part of the offense that fans will notice, first in Bourbonnais and then in the 2018 season.

Bears coach Matt Nagy and offensive coordinator Mark Helfrich have initiated a monumental makeover of the Bears’ offense, some effects of which should be evident sooner rather than later, if for no other reason than the quarterback and receiver group project to be noticeably better than the tools at the disposal of John Fox and Dowell Loggains.

But the changes run deeper than personnel.

“We’re going to continue to do some of the things that we did in Kansas City,” Nagy said not long after his hiring, “but we’re also going to grow. We’re going to create our own identity.”

Nothing should suggest that the 2018 Bears will ascend to the Kansas City Chiefs’ offensive heights (multiple top-10 statistical rankings, including points (No. 6) and yards (No. 5) per game) in the short term. However, if it takes five years for the Bears to reach those levels, as it did for the Chiefs to do so under Andy Reid, the prospects of Nagy and GM Ryan Pace still being around to see it are problematic. Meaning: Changes will be noticeable immediately.

The complexities of the Nagy/Helfrich iteration of the time-honored West Coast offense are too much to chronicle in one analysis, and they won’t be immediately apparent to the naked eye. For one thing, if civilians could pick it up that easily, it wouldn’t have survived the decades of distinguished defensive coordinators assailing it. Also, if it were that simple, Mitch Trubisky wouldn’t have needed to work as hard at it as he has for some months now. A prime directive in all of this is precisely that the offense is NOT easy to figure out.

For another reason, regardless of how many years he apprenticed under Reid in Philadelphia and Kansas City, Nagy’s offense will be uniquely his, not merely a Reid clone. Reid did not simply run the Bill Walsh playbook; he authored his own edition. Similarly, not all of the clues to the Nagy offense can be found looking at 2017 Chiefs film. Nagy brings a different and expanded offensive scheme to the Bears, with Helfrich in a complementary role.

But the past is often prologue. Nagy’s NFL experience has all been within the parameters of Reid’s framework, and Helfrich has never coached against an NFL defense. So a reasonable expectation is that Nagy and Helfrich build out from a Reid foundation, but customizing it with personal preferences and with an eye toward molding it to the collective skillset of Trubisky and the rest of the offensive components.

To gain a preliminary, superficial understanding of what Nagy’s offense is about, look to Nagy’s past, the West Coast roots that Nagy incorporates in his work.

With his own modifications. As in:

“I think if you compare the old-school West Coast offense, where the three-step [dropback-passing] game was the extension of the run, and they’re looking for the yards after the catch, the ‘YAC’ yards,” Nagy said, “now you look at our offense which is more of the RPO [run-pass-option] stuff. You’re sort of getting the same thing, but now you’re mixing in run and pass on the same play.”

The Walsh influences

At its core, the West Coast offense uses the pass to set up the run, and uses the pass as a device for ball control – something of a departure from recent Bears offenses, although Marc Trestman based much of his scheme around that premise.

Actually the West Coast offense is misnamed and should’ve gone into NFL lore as the “Ohio River offense,” or something reflective of the fact that Bill Walsh formulated many of the concepts while an assistant with the expansion Cincinnati Bengals 50 years ago. Walsh came from the vertical passing game espoused by the Oakland Raiders, his first NFL employer, but was forced in Cincinnati to adapt to the arm limitations of Virgil Carter, who stepped in as starter when strong-armed Greg Cook suffered what was effectively a career-ending arm injury. Walsh exploited the defense horizontally, not simply vertically.

With Trubisky, Nagy won’t be constrained by arm limitations. Trubisky has the deep arm and has speed with Taylor Gabriel, Anthony Miller and Kevin White.

But like any coach or assistant, Walsh wanted ball control but approached it through the pass, not the run, as explained in his “Controlling the ball with the pass” written in 1979. “To do that.” Walsh wrote, “we have to have versatility – versatility in the action and types of passes thrown by the quarterback.” Nagy subscribes to the notion of ball control using the pass, not solely the run.

Walsh espoused three passing concepts:

• drop-back passes, typically with short drops and quick releases;

• play-action passes, which in Nagy’s scheme can take the form of run-pass-option plays besides the conventional fake handoff on the way to a drop-back;

• and what Walsh termed the “action pass” where the quarterback moves outside to negate a rush, change the trajectory of a throw or shorten the throw to a targeted receiver.

Ex-quarterback Nagy has a full grasp of and appreciation for all three, particularly the action pass, and it begins with his own awareness of history. Within even a brief conversation about his offensive tenets, Nagy brings up one of the great plays in NFL history, one Walsh built into the San Francisco 49ers scheme, one that may have looked like a broken play, but was anything but.

“’The Catch’” was a movement play, ‘Q-8,’” Nagy said, recalling the Joe Montana pass to the late Dwight Clark against the Dallas Cowboys to win the 1981 NFC Championship game. “Montana sprinted out. That’s an old-school West Coast play, and we have that play. That’s a movement play. We do have movements; we don’t live in that world but we want to have that.”


Doesn't seem as if Nagy has implemented these ideas in great depth and didn't implement other elements of the West Coast/RPO schemes. Walsh never abandoned the run, San Fran with Roger Craig actually had a pretty good running attack. Andy Reid uses the run also. So, is Trubisky just unable to pick up these Nagy's concepts, keeping him from fully implementing his offense?
Maybe a line to block and a viable TE threat would help all three aspects. We saw all three of those in 2018. We did not in 2019.
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Re: Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter

Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:35 am

Meh. Deshaun Watson drug his team to the playoffs the last two years with a terrible OL and very little at TE. Yet he still has managed a career QB rating of 101. As someone else mentioned, David Carr made a relative star out of Darren Waller, a relative unknown who exploded for 90 catches and over 1,100 yards.

Our OL played poorly, no doubt. And Nagy didn't help matters much by being so stubborn with trying to shove his offense down the teams throat when it was evident that they couldn't execute it. But IMO, and it's JMO, I think Trubisky is the root of all of these problems. If we had a Deshaun Watson or David Carr playing QB for us last year, I suspect we aren't as focused on the OL and TE issues because he would have smoothed a lot of their issues over.
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 5 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
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IE
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Re: Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter

Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:49 am

I'm tired of the "whataboutism" that comes in the form of Oline excuses and TE excuses for Mitch. It IS true that the Oline could have been a lot better and the production of the TEs could have been a lot higher. But... the oline was NOT 100% bad all season long, with no opportunities for Mitch to demonstrate stuff that was laid out in that article. Let's not pretend he had 2.5 seconds on EVERY snap. With the worst NFL Oline of all time he still would have had 40-50% of snaps to show something better. But we still didn't see it basically at all. And let's not pretend that we regularly saw Mitch "looking for that TE who wasn't there".

Everyone understands there are areas for needed improvement on the offense, I believe we need to give more credit for lack of production to the actual guy who can do the most about production (the "field general"). Again - his median performances were quite bad (even in '18 they were below average). And his abysmal performances in '19 were 6 out of 14... this is a picture of someone authentically not in control, or over their head.

Pace again mentioned Drew in referencing Mitch's off-season development. I'm old and I remember Drew Brees VERY well at Purdue and in San Diego when he was benched in favor of Flutie who was a real decent option. Drew never looked close to as incompetent as Mitch. There is no comparison (Picture Reagan saying "you're no Jack Kennedy"). I'm *hoping* Mitch proves me wrong. But again I'll take bets on it.

I do believe Nagy was very frustrated last year. I think Nagy's personality leans toward "stubborn" in the sense that when things weren't working (things he believes should be working), he tends to double-down until it does. And if it doesn't? We see games with no offense for an entire half. Or games with 7 run calls. It is not a great characteristic in a game where "winning ugly" is better than "losing my way". Nagy has gotta get some credit for a few of the catastrophes.

But I'm reluctant to trash Nagy. He seems to have a lot of upside, and being surrounded with more experienced NFL professionals seems likely to stabilize him so we can see more flexibility and will to win at any cost.

Also - I don't believe a word Pace OR Nagy say about their QB, until the windows of opportunity to make changes close. Until then, it is nothing more and nothing less than smoke.
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Re: Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter

Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:58 am

Agree, IE.

Some here seem to be defending their hopes rather than objectively looking at Trubisky.

Very interested in seeing whom they bring in to push him and how they handle preseason reps. It's obvious that Trubisky needs preseason work to improve his overall game, so not playing him would show Nagy learned nothing from his unprepared preseason experience last season. To rekindle hope for him, I want to see that he has learned lessons from last season.
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Re: Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter

Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:44 am

I understand ripping Nagy for the preseason thing last year, but I'm not so sure it had an actual impact. Here's why:

We sucked in Week 1 offensively after all the talk about how we were going to take flight in Year 2 of Nagy's system. And after the lack of preseason play from our starters, people rightfully blamed Nagy for not playing them more as they didn't look ready to play. HOWEVER....they CONTINUED to suck all season long! One of the bottom 3 offenses in the whole league. So more playing time from the starters as the season progressed did NOT in fact make us look more "ready to play", we still had poor QB play, we still saw our OL get overrun, we still couldn't run block for shit, etc etc. All the stuff we saw in the Week 1 early September loss to the Packers, we saw again in the Weeks 15/16 in mid December losses to those same Packers and Chiefs.

So I don't think you can really point to lack of preseason playing time from the starters and the results from Week 1 as any sort of proof point.
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 5 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
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IE
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Re: Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter

Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:49 am

Agreed. I think in addition to "protecting" the players in PS they also definitely had a mentality that the players were "ready" based on what they saw in practice. It just didn't translate. All season long. I do believe they should look hard at how they assess this stuff because they seemed very confident coming out of practices and then had their asses handed to them in games.

Remember Jon Quinn? The story was he was really great with a red dickie on. Then in games turned into Bambi on the I-94.
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Re: Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter

Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:51 am

We agree...the O sucks because they have several below average starters, most importantly being the QB.

However, an OL and and THIS QB needed reps, so the HC didn't put them in the best position to succeed out the gate. The first few games were really their preseason. It kind of snowballed.

Nagy was arrogant and not perceptive--that's my point. He needs to show he's learned from his mistake and give the OL and QB some needed work despite the fact the new backup will need reps to learn the O.
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IE
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Re: Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter

Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:03 pm

No argument what he was thinking was different than reality.
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Re: Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter

Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:51 pm

Not sure this needs a new thread or not, but reportedly the Bears have checked in on a possible Andy Dalton trade

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/287 ... s-about-qb

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