I was really thinking about Nagy's post-game comments

[Dardango]

You see -that's the issue I have a problem with. You can't really choose to make a FG. You can choose to TRY a FG... but they are missed often enough that it needs to be factored better into decision-making. Outside of 40 yards, kickers still only make 4/5 kicks (and I'm erring on the high side). But coaches like to operate as if they're being less risky and then all the blame falls on the kicker.

I think the important thing to distinguish here is who is blaming the kicker? I 100% agree that no kick should be treated as guaranteed points and I think a coach would have to be a douchebag for blaming him for missing that individual kick. Nothing I've read from Nagy shows that he ever blamed Piñeiro for losing the game. If you're saying though that the media and us meatballs blame the kicker, well, that's nothing a coach should be taking into consideration anyway when making that decision.

What it all comes down to is, in the games that come down to one kick, one throw, one run, etc. everyone needs to relax and not get so hung up on it because no one is perfect. Sometimes you make it, sometimes you don't. The issue with this game is that it should have never come down to one play to decide the game. It wasn't like we were slugging it out with the Patriots where you would expect a nailbiter win, if any. Piñeiro's kick should have just been a cherry on top of a dominating win.

Well said.

[IE]

I think the important thing to distinguish here is who is blaming the kicker? I 100% agree that no kick should be treated as guaranteed points and I think a coach would have to be a douchebag for blaming him for missing that individual kick. Nothing I've read from Nagy shows that he ever blamed Piñeiro for losing the game. If you're saying though that the media and us meatballs blame the kicker, well, that's nothing a coach should be taking into consideration anyway when making that decision.

What it all comes down to is, in the games that come down to one kick, one throw, one run, etc. everyone needs to relax and not get so hung up on it because no one is perfect. Sometimes you make it, sometimes you don't. The issue with this game is that it should have never come down to one play to decide the game. It wasn't like we were slugging it out with the Patriots where you would expect a nailbiter win, if any. Piñeiro's kick should have just been a cherry on top of a dominating win.

Well said.

The comment about the kicker getting blame was not the point. My post was about Nagy's decision in context.... a decision that in my very many years I've never seen. My point was, I believe you kick only when you run out of other options.

You're right, Xee - it shouldn't be one play to win the game. There were 43 seconds left. Ball inside the 25. First down. A time out left. You've already put 390 yards on the opponent. With that type of time left and at that yard line, I doubt the defense would have been lined up and selling out to stop the run like Nagy claims. Even if they did, you take a shot or two at 12.. right? I believe the D would have bent all the way back to a chip shot. And the Bears had all the plays and time they needed to either score an actual TD or kick from extra point distance. I'm saying any decent team would have at LEAST 4 plays there - including at least one run. Again - I've never seen a team do that... give up the better part of a minute kneeling to then kick from outside 40. Never.

That kick decision at that point was weak. And illogical. Nagy and his men keep spinning the narrative that they were well within their expected FG range. That's just a distraction - that calculus is about when you run out of other options and the choice is kick or punt. It is not acceptable with the conditions I listed above.

[AZ_Bearfan]

The most worrisome part for me is that they had all the time to pick the ball placement and they put it in the one spot any kicker would have asked to avoid. That's very basic football coaching IMO.

[mmmc_35]

Anyone watch last chance u on Netflix? Nagy kind of reminds me of the new schools head coach. He seems like a blast to drink with, but not the right guy necessarily lead.

[IE]

The most worrisome part for me is that they had all the time to pick the ball placement and they put it in the one spot any kicker would have asked to avoid. That's very basic football coaching IMO.

Yeah, AZ - it seems weird. Tabor said that they make sure to balance practice from either hash. The problem - again - is they are saying this stuff as IF the context was there is 1 second on the clock and they simply have to live with the location of the ball. They're abdicating responsibility and acting like they didn't have a choice.

So yeah... I guess there is an entire tree here of bad decisions. Besides the bad decision to not choose the correct option of executing more plays to either score or move closer, they also elected to ignore the best circumstances or preferences of the kicker they were setting up.

You know what's weird? I love Eddy Money. I think he's great, and a long-term answer at K. But as I was furiously watching Nagy make this decision, I turned to my wife and say "Holy crap - they're wasting all this opportunity and he's going to miss it because of that". After he missed, she just said "Sorry'. Yeah -me too.

[WP.1]

Nagy post game press conference to Whitehair snaps.

its like a golf swing thing "we here try not to talk about it". what the hell !?!!

first 16 plays
- 3rd and 5 / snap below knee
- 3rd and 9 / snap to feet
and Lions 90 vs. Whitehair + Daniels, with slight pull down Daniels, free rush on QB
- 3rd and 1 / Massie false start
- 3rd and 6 / Gabriel drop
- 3rd and 10 / snap touch ground

[Richie]

There's a lot of criticism pertaining to Nagy throwing late in the final possession last night. Attempting to make the kick easier on a guy who had just made his first kick over 35 yards a few minutes earlier and was like 4 for 9 last season in Tennessee prior to being cut.

I just want to use this to remind people (Miami game in 18 also an example) of how pissed we were when Nagy settled for a 41 yard kick vs LAC in exchange for clock and the ensuing kick was missed.

Another good quote from this game-thread I went back and read:

"I’m done with Nagy! You had 3 plays and a timeout to get the ball closer...and you just decide to kick a 41 yard FG instead. It’s not a gimme. Why wouldn’t you continue to play...or act like NE, go and score a TD. Nope, we get typical Nagy, escape with a win instead of just win.

I can’t stand this guy, completely over him!"

I feel like 99% of sports fans literally don't even try to remain consistent. They just swing like a pendulum on a whim towards whichever is the side they can b*tch the most on.

I literally can't even find anyone who defended Nagy's decision to run the clock down after this game. Which was a loss.

Yet, he is being WIDELY criticized for remaining aggressive after last night's TB game. Which was a win.

Wild.

[The Grizzly One]

I actually agreed with Nagy at that point even though Aikeman was going on and on about. I really don't like Nagy, but that was the right call. Make the kick make-able for the weak leg kicker and trust your hot defense to finish the deal.

[The Grizzly One]

Didn't realize this is an old thread. I'm talking about the Brady/Bucs game.

[The Cooler King]

I'm fine with being aggressive in that situation although I didn't love the exact play.

[DevilsProspect]

I'm fine with being aggressive in that situation although I didn't love the exact play.

Agree,

I am all about being aggressive. Maybe I should say passive aggressive.

Time on the clock was not an issue, as far as the Bears. If not a run, I would think to throw a high percentage pass in the middle or an outlet pass to Montgomery. If you only gain 3-4yds you have another down to get 5-6 for a first. Worse case scenario you run clock out and kick. That sideline pass could only do three things, a catch and out of bounds, an incompletion or worse an interception. The first two stops the clock. The last end of game. None are good options.

The one thing you DO NOT want to do, is give Brady the ball with 1:20 on the clock with 2 time outs.

[The Cooler King]

I'm fine with being aggressive in that situation although I didn't love the exact play.

Agree,

I am all about being aggressive. Maybe I should say passive aggressive.

Time on the clock was not an issue, as far as the Bears. If not a run, I would think to throw a high percentage pass in the middle or an outlet pass to Montgomery. If you only gain 3-4yds you have another down to get 5-6 for a first. Worse case scenario you run clock out and kick. That sideline pass could only do three things, a catch and out of bounds, an incompletion or worse an interception. The first two stops the clock. The last end of game. None are good options.

The one thing you DO NOT want to do, is give Brady the ball with 1:20 on the clock with 2 time outs.

Yep, well put. Perhaps if the Bears had one less timeout than they did, it changes it a bit. But they were in a good spot to just go for a higher percentage throw in the middle of the field with an outlet like you said. That was a pretty quick decision so I'm guessing that fad throw was the first read. Why?

[Richie]

I'm fine with being aggressive in that situation although I didn't love the exact play.

A ball thrown high to the sideline where only Robinson can catch it?

I would argue that was safer than our throw over the middle.

[Richie]

I'm fine with being aggressive in that situation although I didn't love the exact play.

Agree,

I am all about being aggressive. Maybe I should say passive aggressive.

Time on the clock was not an issue, as far as the Bears. If not a run, I would think to throw a high percentage pass in the middle or an outlet pass to Montgomery. If you only gain 3-4yds you have another down to get 5-6 for a first. Worse case scenario you run clock out and kick. That sideline pass could only do three things, a catch and out of bounds, an incompletion or worse an interception. The first two stops the clock. The last end of game. None are good options.

The one thing you DO NOT want to do, is give Brady the ball with 1:20 on the clock with 2 time outs.

a catch and out of bounds

Perfect. Then, we run the clock down to a handful of seconds and kick the game winning chip shot 23 yard field goal.

That pass fell incomplete with a like 1:25 on the clock. That's a kneel down with a TB time out, kneel down with running clock, kneel down with running clock, and then a time out by us with 4-5 seconds left.

an incompletion or worse an interception

A throw over the middle could also fall incomplete. The ball was clearly intended to be thrown where only Robinson could catch it and it was. That was not an interceptable pass.

The first two stops the clock. The last end of game. None are good options.

Literally, Robinson catching that ball sets us up on the 6 yard line and we are able to run the clock out (center the ball, too) until we kick a 23-25ish yard field goal for the win.

A pass over the middle could easily fall incomplete as well.

The pass was not interceptable. Only Robinson could get his hands on it.

The one thing you DO NOT want to do, is give Brady the ball with 1:20 on the clock with 2 time outs.

This was an impossibility. As TB only had one time out at the time of the throw. Brady got the ball back with 1:17 and 0 time outs.

Would I have called the throw to the sideline? Maybe not. But that's been one of our most reliable plays of the Nagy era when we really need it. I certainly can't criticize it. ESPECIALLY NOT when I was fuming about Nagy going into a shell one year ago in that precise scenario.

[The Cooler King]

Agree,

I am all about being aggressive. Maybe I should say passive aggressive.

Time on the clock was not an issue, as far as the Bears. If not a run, I would think to throw a high percentage pass in the middle or an outlet pass to Montgomery. If you only gain 3-4yds you have another down to get 5-6 for a first. Worse case scenario you run clock out and kick. That sideline pass could only do three things, a catch and out of bounds, an incompletion or worse an interception. The first two stops the clock. The last end of game. None are good options.

The one thing you DO NOT want to do, is give Brady the ball with 1:20 on the clock with 2 time outs.

a catch and out of bounds

Perfect. Then, we run the clock down to a handful of seconds and kick the game winning chip shot 23 yard field goal.

That pass fell incomplete with a like 1:25 on the clock. That's a kneel down with a TB time out, kneel down with running clock, kneel down with running clock, and then a time out by us with 4-5 seconds left.

an incompletion or worse an interception

A throw over the middle could also fall incomplete. The ball was clearly intended to be thrown where only Robinson could catch it and it was. That was not an interceptable pass.

The first two stops the clock. The last end of game. None are good options.

Literally, Robinson catching that ball sets us up on the 6 yard line and we are able to run the clock out (center the ball, too) until we kick a 23-25ish yard field goal for the win.

A pass over the middle could easily fall incomplete as well.

The pass was not interceptable. Only Robinson could get his hands on it.

The one thing you DO NOT want to do, is give Brady the ball with 1:20 on the clock with 2 time outs.

This was an impossibility. As TB only had one time out at the time of the throw. Brady got the ball back with 1:17 and 0 time outs.

Would I have called the throw to the sideline? Maybe not. But that's been one of our most reliable plays of the Nagy era when we really need it. I certainly can't criticize it. ESPECIALLY NOT when I was fuming about Nagy going into a shell one year ago in that precise scenario.

That ball certainly could have been intercepted. Didn't Arob just loose one of those in the past couple weeks? I don't think interception chances are the measurement you should use there. You should find a balance between advancing the ball and running time on the clock (in that order of importance).

[HisRoyalSweetness]

I have no problem with Nagy getting aggressive, I just have a problem with when he chooses to get aggressive.

[RichH55]

Press Conferences Do Not Matter

[Mikefive]

I hate when teams hand off to run clock and become 100% predictable, unless you can virtually run the clock out. Thing is, if you show a pattern of willingness to throw in those situations, then when you do handoff, the defense is likely to be honoring the pass to some extent, thus, making the run is more likely to be effective. If they're stacking the line to desperately stop the run, I have no problem with calling a pass play that has a higher opportunity for success, even with some risk.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

It depends on the circumstances though MikeFive.

In the last game a run on 2nd down would have forced Tampa Bay to use their final time out at that point, allowing the Bears the opportunity to run around another 40 seconds off the clock before the field goal attempt. That would have left Brady & co around 35 seconds and no time outs to get into field goal range instead of 1:13. That's a big tilt in the Bears' favour.

Also, if that third down pass had landed incomplete as well then that would have left the Bucs with a few seconds more and, much more importantly, with a time out.

The run hadn't gained anything all game and those extra 5 yards put the field goal attempt to under 40 yards so a low risk pass at that point is OK as you're trading 40 seconds of time for a more makeable field goal should it be incomplete. It's the decision to pass on 2nd down that was the problem because it opened the door to Tampa not having to use that time out if both 2nd and 3rd down passes fail.

[dplank]

It depends on the circumstances though MikeFive.

In the last game a run on 2nd down would have forced Tampa Bay to use their final time out at that point, allowing the Bears the opportunity to run around another 40 seconds off the clock before the field goal attempt. That would have left Brady & co around 35 seconds and no time outs to get into field goal range instead of 1:13. That's a big tilt in the Bears' favour.

Also, if that third down pass had landed incomplete as well then that would have left the Bucs with a few seconds more and, much more importantly, with a time out.

The run hadn't gained anything all game and those extra 5 yards put the field goal attempt to under 40 yards so a low risk pass at that point is OK as you're trading 40 seconds of time for a more makeable field goal should it be incomplete. It's the decision to pass on 2nd down that was the problem because it opened the door to Tampa not having to use that time out if both 2nd and 3rd down passes fail.

Totally agree here, and if you are worried about a negative play on the run as Nagy claimed he was, then just run a QB sneak! Take a yard, twice, then boot your FG and leave them with no time on the clock.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

if you are worried about a negative play on the run as Nagy claimed he was, then just run a QB sneak! Take a yard, twice, then boot your FG and leave them with no time on the clock.

But dplank, that's basically what Nagy did last season against the Chargers... and then Pinero missed the kick, the Bears lost and Nagy was rightly pilloried for not trying to gain a few extra yards for an easier attempt.

You can't be afraid to try and gain extra yards, but you have to play the situation and force your opponent to use their final time out when you have the opportunity.

[dplank]

True, with a couple minor knits. Piniero had already missed a short FG in that game (33 yarder) while Santos was perfect on the day (confidence factor). The SD FG attempt was slightly longer than the Bucs one, 41 yards vs 38 yards. Trubisky actually took a knee, thereby LOSING a yard and a half - where i"m suggesting a QB sneak forward for a yard. And in the SD game, time was expiring, there wasn't a threat of SD getting the ball and coming back down the field. Combine all those factors and you have two slightly different scenarios. I also didn't roast Nagy for the knee / FG - my anger was squarely focused on the incredible "Mitch 4th Quarter Meltdown" that cost us that game which was easily in hand.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

And to nitpick a couple back :

a) There's no guarantee that a QB sneak would gain a yard each time. (Trubisky couldn't convert a third down with one earlier in the year; I have no idea how good Foles is at them.)

b) The field goal attempt would have been 43 yards if not for the 5 yard completion on third down, so picking up a couple of yards on QB sneaks instead of passing would have made it 41 yards... exactly the same as the one Pinero missed against the Chargers.

[Yogi da Bear]

I was totally fine with the call. That's what you're supposed to do--play to win the game. Last year, he was playing not to lose. Good things don't happen when you do that. As Karma has shown us more than once. You need to be aggressive and try to put the game away.

I also like the pass to the sideline. Unless you're doing a quick slant, a pass to the middle usually takes longer so you're more at risk of taking a sack. Also, remember that Tampa's safeties, Winfield and Whitehead, are pretty good and putting it in the middle of the field also puts Lavonte David into the action. And you don't want that.

I think the play was fine all the way around.

[dplank]

And to nitpick a couple back :

a) There's no guarantee that a QB sneak would gain a yard each time. (Trubisky couldn't convert a third down with one earlier in the year; I have no idea how good Foles is at them.)

b) The field goal attempt would have been 43 yards if not for the 5 yard completion on third down, so picking up a couple of yards on QB sneaks instead of passing would have made it 41 yards... exactly the same as the one Pinero missed against the Chargers.

Haha! Ok all good. I guess I fall on the “just make the dang FG” line of thinking.

[HurricaneBear]

Let's be real people. The Bears kickers suck and have sucked since Gould was wrongly let go. I'd rather Nagy go for the extra yards every single time. The shorter the kick the better chances one of the terrible kickers the Bears trot out their can actually make it.

[IE]

Robbie had the yips. Perhaps in hindsight they should have signed other guys to compete with him and gave him a really long runway before letting him go. But he did have the yips.

Teams let good kickers go all the time. It's like a club where they meet in the offseason and say "where you you playing this year? "

[HurricaneBear]

Robbie with the "yips" was still better than what has come since. Robbie was vocal and made alot of money. That's the true reason he's gone

[Moriarty]

Let's be real people. The Bears kickers suck and have sucked since Gould was wrongly let go.

Robbie with the "yips" was still better than what has come since. Robbie was vocal and made alot of money. That's the true reason he's gone

Yep.

His 11yr Chicago %age, when he was beloved and got the "good as Gould" reputation: 85%

His percentage in the year where he "lost it" and was let go: 85%

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Yes, this idea that Robbie had the yips isn't true. That 85% in his final year in Chicago included 7/9 from 50+ too. If I recall correctly he missed a couple at the end of games that year, but kickers don't make every clutch kick. His career percentage currently stands at 86.8%. Soldier Field is one of the most difficult places for kickers. Pace was foolish to let him go.