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Posted: **Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:46 am**

IE wrote: ↑Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:36 am As soon as they understand that an investment is going to harm their chances of winning more than help them (e.g. Shaheen), they should be gone. If a GM loves his mistakes too long, the GM will be gone. We'll see soon whether Pace loves his mistakes more than his job.

That's a hard rule to live by. The only time that can really be possible with this (and many other NFL regimes, I'd wager) is if the player's involved in some really shady off-the-field stuff. The Bears have a second round pick invested in Shaheen - if he's already contracted to come back to camp/workouts for the 2020 season and you're allotted 90 invitees, why tell him to fuck off just because you've seen enough? Bring in some hearty competition, and if he's injured/bad/both, you move on knowing him all the better, but at least you took the matter to the wire instead of acting in emotion.

Posted: **Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:52 am**

UOK wrote: ↑Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:46 am
IE wrote: ↑Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:36 am As soon as they understand that an investment is going to harm their chances of winning more than help them (e.g. Shaheen), they should be gone. If a GM loves his mistakes too long, the GM will be gone. We'll see soon whether Pace loves his mistakes more than his job.
That's a hard rule to live by. The only time that can really be possible with this (and many other NFL regimes, I'd wager) is if the player's involved in some really shady off-the-field stuff. The Bears have a second round pick invested in Shaheen - if he's already contracted to come back to camp/workouts for the 2020 season and you're allotted 90 invitees, why tell him to fuck off just because you've seen enough? Bring in some hearty competition, and if he's injured/bad/both, you move on knowing him all the better, but at least you took the matter to the wire instead of acting in emotion.

Somewhat true

However, there are other considerations

You have to be in compliance with the cap starting in March, so keeping a player in your top 53 (or 51? whatever), who you probably won't keep, prevents that $ from being used elsewhere.

Also, there's only so many reps to go around - particularly with the 1s and 2s - even in camp. Giving too many to someone who is unlikely to stick just prevents other players from getting reps and coaching time.

At 1.8M, Shaheen definitely counts against the cap, although not too badly.
Developmentally, though, one could definitely argue that they'd rather see the opportunities go to Horstead/Raymond/likely rookie than Shaheen.

Posted: **Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:56 am**

The Bears don’t have to tell us dick. And I don’t understand why this upsets fans so much. I don’t understand why fans 1- care what they say and 2- put any validity in what we are told.

Posted: **Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:10 pm**

Apply the logic on Shaheen to Braunecker, who saves more money if cut due to Shaheen having more guaranteed money (they are only about $200k apart in cap hit in 2020) . Shaheen's main issues have been health, who knows what he can offer if healthy for a full 12 months in a row. Braunecker has been healthy and has shown very little. I honestly would rather jettison both of them and roll with Burton, Holtz, Horsted, and some new blood.

Posted: **Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:32 pm**

wab wrote: ↑Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:56 am The Bears don’t have to tell us dick. And I don’t understand why this upsets fans so much. I don’t understand why fans 1- care what they say and 2- put any validity in what we are told.

Because *ahem*, let me look through the eyes of the average fan:

1. "Listen, when I'm watching the Bears, it's my relaxation and fun time. It's my Sunday/day off/whatever - it's my LEISURE time, and these clowns OWE me. Every minute I watch them suck ass out there is time I could've been working on the yard or hanging with my kids, but instead of giving me the fun and happiness they implicitly promised me, I was virtually prisoner to their 8-8 bullshit season. They owe me and us 20+ years of 10+ win seasons and numerous Super Bowls as severance for 30 years of losing, and I don't think that's too much to ask."

2. "I drop tons of money on this stupid team: Jerseys, tickets, merchandise, etc. You name it and I or my family have paid good money for it, and when I, nay, WE are paying for this team, we expect wins! Lots of wins! Every time these losers lose, they've stolen from me and mine! They're crooks!"

3. "I wear a Bears jersey, throw on my Bears hat, slap a Bears sticker on my car, show off my Bears tattoo - I represent the team! Everybody knows me as a huge Bears fan, but now I'm associated with them, and let me tell ya, it's fucking embarrassing! I don't want to be associated with these losers, because that makes me look like a loser in turn, and I'm no loser!"

4. "Due to the above 3 reasons, I consider myself more than just the average fan - I'm basically a stockholder in the team, emotionally, financially, and indirectly. I am entitled to answers - REAL answers, because I've made the sacrifice of time, money, and heartache. So don't give me these platitudes and milquetoast answers, dammit!"

5. "Additionally, because of reasons 1-3 I am entitled ACTION! Hasty, quick action that represents my anger, frustration, and football knowledge. I am disgusted by giving endlessly in one way or another to this franchise and not having my concerns addressed in the manner I see fit!"

Posted: **Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:03 pm**

UOK wrote: ↑Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:32 pm
wab wrote: ↑Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:56 am The Bears don’t have to tell us dick. And I don’t understand why this upsets fans so much. I don’t understand why fans 1- care what they say and 2- put any validity in what we are told.
Because *ahem*, let me look through the eyes of the average fan:

1. "Listen, when I'm watching the Bears, it's my relaxation and fun time. It's my Sunday/day off/whatever - it's my LEISURE time, and these clowns OWE me. Every minute I watch them suck ass out there is time I could've been working on the yard or hanging with my kids, but instead of giving me the fun and happiness they implicitly promised me, I was virtually prisoner to their 8-8 bullshit season. They owe me and us 20+ years of 10+ win seasons and numerous Super Bowls as severance for 30 years of losing, and I don't think that's too much to ask."

2. "I drop tons of money on this stupid team: Jerseys, tickets, merchandise, etc. You name it and I or my family have paid good money for it, and when I, nay, WE are paying for this team, we expect wins! Lots of wins! Every time these losers lose, they've stolen from me and mine! They're crooks!"

3. "I wear a Bears jersey, throw on my Bears hat, slap a Bears sticker on my car, show off my Bears tattoo - I represent the team! Everybody knows me as a huge Bears fan, but now I'm associated with them, and let me tell ya, it's fucking embarrassing! I don't want to be associated with these losers, because that makes me look like a loser in turn, and I'm no loser!"

4. "Due to the above 3 reasons, I consider myself more than just the average fan - I'm basically a stockholder in the team, emotionally, financially, and indirectly. I am entitled to answers - REAL answers, because I've made the sacrifice of time, money, and heartache. So don't give me these platitudes and milquetoast answers, dammit!"

5. "Additionally, because of reasons 1-3 I am entitled ACTION! Hasty, quick action that represents my anger, frustration, and football knowledge. I am disgusted by giving endlessly in one way or another to this franchise and not having my concerns addressed in the manner I see fit!"

Nailed it.

I mean, I love this team. I love it enough to make nearly 20k posts on a message board about it. I’ve carved out time around Bears games every week since the 90s.

I want them to succeed so very badly. But I just don’t Take this shit as personally I guess.

Posted: **Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:28 pm**

UOK wrote: ↑Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:46 am
IE wrote: ↑Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:36 am As soon as they understand that an investment is going to harm their chances of winning more than help them (e.g. Shaheen), they should be gone. If a GM loves his mistakes too long, the GM will be gone. We'll see soon whether Pace loves his mistakes more than his job.
That's a hard rule to live by. The only time that can really be possible with this (and many other NFL regimes, I'd wager) is if the player's involved in some really shady off-the-field stuff. The Bears have a second round pick invested in Shaheen - if he's already contracted to come back to camp/workouts for the 2020 season and you're allotted 90 invitees, why tell him to fuck off just because you've seen enough? Bring in some hearty competition, and if he's injured/bad/both, you move on knowing him all the better, but at least you took the matter to the wire instead of acting in emotion.

Yeah, I understand. In most cases you at least bring the guy to offseason stuff and camp. Unless you've concluded a guy can't play. In Shaheen's case I do expect him to be around and not just told to fuck off. BUT... if he doesn't look remarkably better and still sucks up a spot and reps for someone who might actually pan out (e.g. Raymond) then to me that is Pace loving his mistakes more than his job. We'll see.

I'm still going to guess they're going to pick a QB in the 2nd round if one of a couple of guys are there. No matter what they say. Because it is so obvious they have to. I'll bet other teams are assuming that's what the Bears are going to do, in their own draft planning. I suppose they could sign a Mariotta beforehand and try to squash that expectation. But honestly even if they did sign a low-end FA they still need to draft a QB.

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