Bears fire OC Helfrich, coaches Hiestand (OL), Gilbride (TE), Olivo (ST Asst.)

[The Marshall Plan]

Hmm, is this guy considered an upgrade to Heistand? Looks like he didn't work in 2019 after being let go from the Bills after the 2018 season. Reading about him on the Bills subreddit, the knocks they have against him are the same things that were said about Heistand. Basically he didn't have a lot to work with and wasn't able to accomplish much in his 2 years with the Bills. He has past experience with Nagy though so hopefully that helps.

How'd the Bills do in the running game once that fella left? If Nagy pulls off an offensive improvement by surrounding himself with yes-men and fall guys instead of changing himself... I'll cheer. And I'll be completely shocked.

That's exactly what I'm worried about; Nagy surrounding himself with like-minded dude bro yes men. It'll just show his insecurities as a leader if that's what he does. He needs to go after the best people available which to me would be somebody like Shurmur.

I think he allowed Fangio and Pagano because he thinks defense is like just so last year and offense is moar better.

[Xee]

How'd the Bills do in the running game once that fella left? If Nagy pulls off an offensive improvement by surrounding himself with yes-men and fall guys instead of changing himself... I'll cheer. And I'll be completely shocked.

That's exactly what I'm worried about; Nagy surrounding himself with like-minded dude bro yes men. It'll just show his insecurities as a leader if that's what he does. He needs to go after the best people available which to me would be somebody like Shurmur.

I think he allowed Fangio and Pagano because he thinks defense is like just so last year and offense is moar better.

Agree completely. I was just trying to find something in the signing that shows he will be able to do something he couldn't accomplish with the Bills. Like IE, I will be completely surprised if he will be able get different results with the same people in the same scheme.

[The Cooler King]

Well Nagy went outside his circle the first time without great results on O. I'm willing to give this hire the benefit of the doubt. It's not like Castillo is some green assistant who won't still be able to bring outside perspective.

[KOP_Snake]

Meh. All teams get injuries, and the Bears have had way worse injury years than this one. Remember when we had a starting WR tandem of Josh Bellamy and Tanner Gentry cause like 42 of our receivers were hurt?

Yea, you mean in those 5-11 and 3-13 years? Bears went 8-8 this year.

I've only known of 1 coach to survive massive injuries and make it deep into the playoffs anyway, and that's Belichick. I don't think he's available to bring in...

[Z Bear]

We have an All Pro RG who is a shell of himself due to injury, an All Pro DE that tore his elbow apart, an $8M TE that was not available most of the season, and two good ILBs who ended the year on injured reserve. That is not a minor injury year and does not take into a account several other injuries to key contributors.

[Otis Day]

Re. Hiestant - Olin was on 670 this afternoon and stated the run game that was employed ( other than I formation runs) were not his type of run plays. He doubts that HH had much say in the run game as he is a power guy, not the finesse stuff Nags liked to employ. He felt Pace and Nags needed some fall guys.

[The Cooler King]

Re. Hiestant - Olin was on 670 this afternoon and stated the run game that was employed ( other than I formation runs) were not his type of run plays. He doubts that HH had much say in the run game as he is a power guy, not the finesse stuff Nags liked to employ. He felt Pace and Nags needed some fall guys.

Not surprised this is what Kruetz had to say, as he'd obviously a big HH supporter. I'm sure its somewhere in the middle. HH couldn't implement their scheme because he's never implemented it. Which begs the question why he was hired in the first place. But perhaps more of a "correct our mistake" than "look for sacrificial lamb" scenario.

[G08]

Even if you discount his role in the run game, there was major regression in our pass blocking as well.

Dude had to go.

[KOP_Snake]

I've been hearing the point recently that Nagy's system was new to these guys. So Nagy has been teaching his system to his players AND his coaches instead of having coaches of his that already knew the system in and out.

[Drone7]

Kreutz on the money

[UOK]

I've been hearing the point recently that Nagy's system was new to these guys. So Nagy has been teaching his system to his players AND his coaches instead of having coaches of his that already knew the system in and out.

Weird. I always interpreted Helfrich as a technique and cultivation hire and Helfrich would be a wild card coach that would bring flavor and progression to the whiteboard. Instead it sounds like Nagy surrendered some run game duties to these guys (at least he did seconds before firing them) and their uses were unclear. I guess they got Coward to not be a total fuck up, which is something, but I'd put that more on him being an intelligent and savvy worker.

[TheWorldBreaker]

How'd the Bills do in the running game once that fella left? If Nagy pulls off an offensive improvement by surrounding himself with yes-men and fall guys instead of changing himself... I'll cheer. And I'll be completely shocked.

That's exactly what I'm worried about; Nagy surrounding himself with like-minded dude bro yes men. It'll just show his insecurities as a leader if that's what he does. He needs to go after the best people available which to me would be somebody like Shurmur.

I think he allowed Fangio and Pagano because he thinks defense is like just so last year and offense is moar better.

It looks like he’s bringing in people who have experience with his offense. I don’t think that necessarily means they’re “yes men.”

I think the idea is to have a more unified and coherent message to the players which hopefully leads to better results.

We’ll see how it goes.

And Nagy might be going after Shurmur but he may prefer to work for a defensive coach or waiting to see what happens with the Chiefs. The Bears OC job isn’t an attractive one with Trubisky at QB and a broken offensive line/run game.

Realistically, Nagy might not be able to hire his top targets for OC.

[Richie]

Most HC's hire from within a familiar circle and/or hire those who are familiar with the scheme they want to run. That goes for Belichick, Reid, Nagy... anyone. I don't know what offensive minded head coach hires an offensive coordinator who believes contrary to him in terms of scheme and/or philosophy.

Hell, the same principle goes for hiring in any line of work, to be honest. Managers, CEO's, etc. look for assistants and lower level employees who share the same core beliefs and principles in business. This is no different. Sure, they want fresh ideas. But who is out there hiring people who disagree completely with their core philosophies?

[wab]

God forbid the guy look for coaches that have experience in what he’s trying to build.

I get you dudes hate all things Nagy/Mitch. But FFS.

[Xee]

God forbid the guy look for coaches that have experience in what he’s trying to build.

I get you dudes hate all things Nagy/Mitch. But FFS.

The only reason I made my post is that if the presumption is correct that our lineman are not suited for Nagy's preferred scheme, it doesn't matter who you bring in, the results are not going to change. You're just trying to put a round peg into a square hole.

If the presumption is false though, and the lack of our success up front is mostly due to Hiestand not being to coach them up well, then I agree with your that this is a great signing.

[wab]

God forbid the guy look for coaches that have experience in what he’s trying to build.

I get you dudes hate all things Nagy/Mitch. But FFS.

The only reason I made my post is that if the presumption is correct that our lineman are not suited for Nagy's preferred scheme, it doesn't matter who you bring in, the results are not going to change. You're just trying to put a round peg into a square hole.

If the presumption is false though, and the lack of our success up front is mostly due to Hiestand not being to coach them up well, then I agree with your that this is a great signing.

I’m not saying it’s a good signing. But I’m not going to discount familiarity or dismiss it as Nagy surrounding himself it’s yes men.

[The Marshall Plan]

Most HC's hire from within a familiar circle and/or hire those who are familiar with the scheme they want to run. That goes for Belichick, Reid, Nagy... anyone. I don't know what offensive minded head coach hires an offensive coordinator who believes contrary to him in terms of scheme and/or philosophy.

Hell, the same principle goes for hiring in any line of work, to be honest. Managers, CEO's, etc. look for assistants and lower level employees who share the same core beliefs and principles in business. This is no different. Sure, they want fresh ideas. But who is out there hiring people who disagree completely with their core philosophies?

I agree with what you're saying, but the problem is that last year I don't think we had an adult in the room so to speak.

Who in their right mind does the Cohen up the middle or Patterson in the wildcat play as many times as that? How about the Daniels and Whitehair switch after things were just fine with the OL last year?

I agree with dismissing Helfrich and Heistand, but I think they were scapegoats. The buck stops with Nagy.

That's why a hire like Kafka really concerns me. Is he really gonna stand up to Nagy or contradict him if he sees something he doesn't like? That, and with Kafka, we are going to be inundated with crap like mentored Mahomes. So are we to believe that this guy made Mahomes who is he? I wouldn't think so. How many coaches could Michael Jordan have played for and still have gotten in the HOF? A shit ton. Same with Mahomes.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

Most HC's hire from within a familiar circle and/or hire those who are familiar with the scheme they want to run. That goes for Belichick, Reid, Nagy... anyone. I don't know what offensive minded head coach hires an offensive coordinator who believes contrary to him in terms of scheme and/or philosophy.

Hell, the same principle goes for hiring in any line of work, to be honest. Managers, CEO's, etc. look for assistants and lower level employees who share the same core beliefs and principles in business. This is no different. Sure, they want fresh ideas. But who is out there hiring people who disagree completely with their core philosophies?

I agree with what you're saying, but the problem is that last year I don't think we had an adult in the room so to speak.

Who in their right mind does the Cohen up the middle or Patterson in the wildcat play as many times as that? How about the Daniels and Whitehair switch after things were just fine with the OL last year?

I agree with dismissing Helfrich and Heistand, but I think they were scapegoats. The buck stops with Nagy.

That's why a hire like Kafka really concerns me. Is he really gonna stand up to Nagy or contradict him if he sees something he doesn't like? That, and with Kafka, we are going to be inundated with crap like mentored Mahomes. So are we to believe that this guy made Mahomes who is he? I wouldn't think so. How many coaches could Michael Jordan have played for and still have gotten in the HOF? A shit ton. Same with Mahomes.

You already have Mahomes in the HOF?? Wow! Get a grip TMP. Mahomes is good, but he’s not the second coming of Brady or Montana.

Kafka isn’t going to be a yes man because he has his own career to look out for.

[Drone7]

The reasons for the Bears' inept O remain. The firings were a diversion.

[dplank]

We have an All Pro RG who is a shell of himself due to injury, an All Pro DE that tore his elbow apart, an $8M TE that was not available most of the season, and two good ILBs who ended the year on injured reserve. That is not a minor injury year and does not take into a account several other injuries to key contributors.

We went into the season with Long already a shell of himself, and he couldn't stay healthy 3 years running but we still had no depth behind him - that's unacceptable. Hick's I'll give you. But Burton? He had a full offseason to recover, the Bears should have known if his issue was chronic or not and had proper depth ready for him - they didn't. And by time our first ILB went out, we were already 3-5 and out of the playoff picture essentially. And Kwit stepped in great. When Roquan went out, the season was already over.

These are excuses guys. We did not have an insane injury riddled year. Rather, we returned to a normal level of injuries after having a very fortunate year with nearly no injuries the year prior. Blaming our poor season on injuries really misses the point - badly.

Nagy/Trubisky/Pagano sucked HARD + serious regression from Leno/Massie/Floyd/Burton + inadequate development from Daniels/A Miller/Shaheen. That's the deal. And in order to fix it, we first have to admit it.

[Drone7]

^

[Richie]

Most HC's hire from within a familiar circle and/or hire those who are familiar with the scheme they want to run. That goes for Belichick, Reid, Nagy... anyone. I don't know what offensive minded head coach hires an offensive coordinator who believes contrary to him in terms of scheme and/or philosophy.

Hell, the same principle goes for hiring in any line of work, to be honest. Managers, CEO's, etc. look for assistants and lower level employees who share the same core beliefs and principles in business. This is no different. Sure, they want fresh ideas. But who is out there hiring people who disagree completely with their core philosophies?

I agree with what you're saying, but the problem is that last year I don't think we had an adult in the room so to speak.

Who in their right mind does the Cohen up the middle or Patterson in the wildcat play as many times as that? How about the Daniels and Whitehair switch after things were just fine with the OL last year?

I agree with dismissing Helfrich and Heistand, but I think they were scapegoats. The buck stops with Nagy.

That's why a hire like Kafka really concerns me. Is he really gonna stand up to Nagy or contradict him if he sees something he doesn't like? That, and with Kafka, we are going to be inundated with crap like mentored Mahomes. So are we to believe that this guy made Mahomes who is he? I wouldn't think so. How many coaches could Michael Jordan have played for and still have gotten in the HOF? A shit ton. Same with Mahomes.

Who in their right mind does the Cohen up the middle or Patterson in the wildcat play as many times as that?

There's a little more logic in these play calls than many want to acknowledge. Especially Patterson. I'll die on the "Patterson package isn't stupid" hill.

Patterson averaged 6.1 YPC on 17 carries and 4 of those carries went for 1st downs. That makes him our most efficient runner by a rather wide margin (yes... small sample size). However, I feel like people got more angry at the Patterson package than was warranted.

Patterson is a good runner and has averaged an astounding 7.6 YPC over his career which is the most in NFL history by anyone with 100+ carries. It's really not unthinkable to have a package for him and to call on it only (a little more than) once per game (17 carries). Belichick called on Patterson more than we did the season prior.

It is especially not unthinkable when your two lead RB's are averaging below 4 YPC. Most of the season they were averaging below 3.5 YPC.

Cohen between the tackles is a bit harder to stomach, I agree. But on the other hand... Cohen taking hand-offs between the tackles last season DID work. There were holes to find a lot more often. When they're there he can create a big play. When nothing's working; it looks bad because "He's 5'6! WTF!?". But... it used to work and then suddenly NOTHING was. That wasn't the only play call that turned to shit.

I agree that guys were made scapegoats for Nagy, to an extent. But how many O-line coaches keep their job after a season like that? Let's be honest, Hiestand failed miserably as well.

In reality, the success the team had under Nagy immediately in 2018 earned him the benefit of the doubt for one season. He was 8-8. Not 3-13. You're not going to fire a coach after starting his tenure 20-12. I don't care how badly some may want it... it would take something spectacular in order for that to happen.

We were always going to run it back with Nagy again in 2020.

[Rakshir]

I have no problem getting Patterson the ball more. When he only gets the ball in the wildcat formation, that kinda blows. I kinda waited all Minnesota game for them to pump fake off that WR screen and try a throw downfield to take advantage of them crashing the screen. Bears didn't try to make them pay once. We're just too predictable.

[Grizzled]

Seeing Derrick Henry sledgehammering NE last night...Baltimore's offense being almost 50-50 run-pass in 2019...the Cowboys and Colts missed the playoffs despite good running attacks but, generally, playoff teams had better rushing attacks. Nagy and his new OC can delude themselves all they want but barring Trubisky being reincarnated as the second coming of Joe Montana (who was supported by a good rushing attack) or Dan Marino, the Bears better do what it takes to run the ball consistently. That includes personnel and scheme.

[Rusty Trombagent]

Cohen between the tackles is a bit harder to stomach, I agree. But on the other hand... Cohen taking hand-offs between the tackles last season DID work. There were holes to find a lot more often. When they're there he can create a big play. When nothing's working; it looks bad because "He's 5'6! WTF!?". But... it used to work and then suddenly NOTHING was. That wasn't the only play call that turned to shit.

yeah, that's frustrating. some of our funnest plays last year were cohen getting really small and disappearing behind a guard only to re-appear 5 yards down field.

everything about cohen's running style this year feels like someone tried to fix it and instead completely broke it.

[IE]

When you run a finesse offense and a play calls turn to shit, it is usually because the defense has figured them out and it is a real challenge to get much when the D is not where you expect & need them to be. The offense isn't imposing it's will on the D - it is tricking them with misdirection and such. The offense needs to stay ahead of the defense with creativity and top notch execution. It's tough to sustain.

It's different than a power game where an offense is imposing it's will on the D. Even if the D knows what's coming, they still have to win each battle. In these kinds of offenses the players get old school momentum (e.g. "lathered up" lol), and that turns into an edge.

We have the former, in Nagy. It is not encouraging watching teams emerging and contending by trending more towards the latter.

[wab]

When you run a finesse offense and a play calls turn to shit, it is usually because the defense has figured them out and it is a real challenge to get much when the D is not where you expect & need them to be. The offense isn't imposing it's will on the D - it is tricking them with misdirection and such. The offense needs to stay ahead of the defense with creativity and top notch execution. It's tough to sustain.

It's different than a power game where an offense is imposing it's will on the D. Even if the D knows what's coming, they still have to win each battle. In these kinds of offenses the players get old school momentum (e.g. "lathered up" lol), and that turns into an edge.

We have the former, in Nagy. It is not encouraging watching teams emerging and contending by trending more towards the latter.

Probably should have kept Fox then.

[southdakbearfan]

I have no problem getting Patterson the ball more. When he only gets the ball in the wildcat formation, that kinda blows. I kinda waited all Minnesota game for them to pump fake off that WR screen and try a throw downfield to take advantage of them crashing the screen. Bears didn't try to make them pay once. We're just too predictable.

There’s a reason Patterson has never really worked out at WR on any of the 4 teams he has been on.

He is a tremendous athlete and returner, but he is not anything more than a gadget on offense that cannot be counted upon for any consistency.

[IE]

When you run a finesse offense and a play calls turn to shit, it is usually because the defense has figured them out and it is a real challenge to get much when the D is not where you expect & need them to be. The offense isn't imposing it's will on the D - it is tricking them with misdirection and such. The offense needs to stay ahead of the defense with creativity and top notch execution. It's tough to sustain.

It's different than a power game where an offense is imposing it's will on the D. Even if the D knows what's coming, they still have to win each battle. In these kinds of offenses the players get old school momentum (e.g. "lathered up" lol), and that turns into an edge.

We have the former, in Nagy. It is not encouraging watching teams emerging and contending by trending more towards the latter.

Probably should have kept Fox then.

Maybe. Probably not. But somebody who can recognize and effectively react to what is clearly working in today's NFL and what his resources can accomplish... would be helpful. That's why I'm calling for an OC. Note: not for the replacement of Nagy or Trubisky, the strawman you so inartfully argue with. Gaba's not here - so I can say strawman, right?

[wab]

Gaba's not here - so I can say strawman, right

You've leaned on it for over a decade, so why stop now?