Potential Target: TE Eric Ebron

[Drone7]

You almost sound impressed that McCaskey and Phillips back Pace. All that means is he has rope since they owe him 2 more years contract money and desperately want him to succeed.

My "salesman" comment that set you off a bit (not in anger) was meant to convey that Pace is a smooth operator. He convincingly says what many people want to hear. Looks great in a suit, representing the organization.

I'd rather have a fat, inarticulate guy in rumpled suit that knew how to pick key personnel better.

[UOK]

You almost sound impressed that McCaskey and Phillips back Pace. All that means is he has rope since they owe him 2 more years contract money and desperately want him to succeed.

My "salesman" comment that set you off a bit (not in anger) was meant to convey that Pace is a smooth operator. He convincingly says what many people want to hear. Looks great in a suit, representing the organization.

I'd rather have a fat, inarticulate guy in rumpled suit that knew how to pick key personnel better.

I'm not set off whatsoever. I feel like you're going to beat the same drum over and over and haven't said much beyond the same tedious "Pace is bad," etc, so it's not really anything new from you in any posts.

[Drone7]

UOK

What I actually said is that Pace is a mediocrity not bad. Said he built a good defense, but a poor O. The second sentence seems indisputable. But you seemed to dispute the onfield results when you brought up your take on the O talent. So you're on the drum set a bit yourself.

Agree fan opinions mean zilch compared to the owners as far as his longevity in the job. If they turn it around, then McCaskey can bask. If they don't and the boo birds come out again, as they did last season, then he'll listen more attentively.

The great thing about sports or any business (even politics) ... eventually smooth talkers have to put up.

Let's return the thread to TEs?

[IE]

What can Ebron do that the existing Bear TEs can't? Catch TDs from Andrew Luck? Mitch Trubisky is no Luck.

The 18 season was an anomaly with Ebron. The guy isn't a good blocker and that has always kept him off the field. He's got OK hands, but isn't exactly an effort guy. Lions fans had enough of him - and Stafford is what we all should dream Trubisky could turn into some day.

I'd much rather see Holtz and Horsted out there. They've both demonstrated good hands when they've had opportunity. Maybe 2-3 missed targets between them? Holtz's blocking and YAC are impressive in small samples. Horsted's body control and acrobatic catch ability is something I personally believe it would be foolish to not explore. Both guys had very few looks/targets even in the second half of the season when they got more playing time.

If Ebron was brought in and got their looks, he'd have their production. And I'd bet the reverse is true. So what is the point with paying Ebron and paying the guy Burton money? He doesn't bring any consistency to the table and is basically a 35-40 catch, 3-4 TD guy. Do we really not think Horsted can't produce that with equivalent targets?

Please no to Ebron.

[wab]

Horsted and Holtz are fringe players at this point in their carrers. I like Horsted and all, and I think he can be developed. I don't think that means he can be counted on. He's also not exactly a great blocker. And his 8-10 for 87 yards and a TD didn't really tell me this undrafted converted WR is the unquestioned future at TE.

Holtz is tough and probably the best blocker out of the position group. So he has that going for him.

Hopefully both will be on the roster, but the Bears need an established player at the position right now. Burton, Ebron (or whoever), Horsted, and Holtz make a decent group. Stash Dax and Clark on the PS for now.

[crueltyabc]

This is an appropriate signing after missing on a high draft pick and pricey FA. I hope we sign Ebron to a short deal, move on from Shaheen, and I hope Burton and Holtz get a majority of the reps.

[G08]

You almost sound impressed that McCaskey and Phillips back Pace. All that means is he has rope since they owe him 2 more years contract money and desperately want him to succeed.

My "salesman" comment that set you off a bit (not in anger) was meant to convey that Pace is a smooth operator. He convincingly says what many people want to hear. Looks great in a suit, representing the organization.

I'd rather have a fat, inarticulate guy in rumpled suit that knew how to pick key personnel better.

Just like Gibron!

[IE]

Horsted and Holtz are fringe players at this point in their carrers. I like Horsted and all, and I think he can be developed. I don't think that means he can be counted on. He's also not exactly a great blocker. And his 8-10 for 87 yards and a TD didn't really tell me this undrafted converted WR is the unquestioned future at TE.

Holtz is tough and probably the best blocker out of the position group. So he has that going for him.

Hopefully both will be on the roster, but the Bears need an established player at the position right now. Burton, Ebron (or whoever), Horsted, and Holtz make a decent group. Stash Dax and Clark on the PS for now.

What I just don't get is the "estabished" part of Ebron. To me what is mostly established is he's going to cost $7MM (prob more) in addition to Burton's big bucks. That much cap on a guy like Eric Ebron? He had one really good season, largely because of a really gifted field-aware QB throwing to him with high precision in the red zone. What he's shown in the other 5 seasons is he's really a 3-5 TD, 35-40 catch guy on average. He's got a fairly deserved reputation for bad drops... the guy has a 60% catch rate (in '18 too!). And he just had surgery on both ankles. Holy crap, is my response.

I agree that the current guys are "considered" fringe. But I believe that is highly deterministic/self-fulfilling, given how limited their opportunity has been at the hands of last season's coaches. I believe they are only fringe because the team kept them fringe even when they were in the game. So what others label as fringe I see as mis-used or squandered resources, and I see the limited sample that results is more of an indictment than an explanation. Here's what Nagy said about Horsted after Detroit: "He’s made some spectacular catches in practice, so it doesn’t shock me when you see him make that type of play,” Nagy said. “He has that talent. How happy I am for a kid on national TV, in front of everybody, to get a chance to make a play, and he made it.”

So how did he not earn more looks? He went 2 for 2 on contested catches (one was the TD), and had zero drops on 9 catchable balls. Mitch's QB rating was 136 while throwing to him (granted only 10 times). Because of that botched fire drill at the end of the Pack game was he was dry-docked? That seems totally unfair. He didn't even play against the Vikes... maybe was dinged.

Then Holtz... man, I like that guy. That Holtz catch & rumble for 30...that was Kittle-esque. I don't know about anyone else, but when I see that I want to see more attempts at that. You know how many targets he got after that? Two. To me the guy looks like an H Back in the mold of Dallas Clark. 75% of Clark's career he was a 30-40 catch, couple of TD guy. I believe I've seen evidence Holtz could deliver far more than he was asked to. Maybe he's on the wrong team....

So when people say the Bears have nothing at TE to me it only means they made no attempt to DO anything. Anyway... now the Bears have a new successful TE coach. I'd really like to see what the new guy can do with the current guys before desperately bringing in an almost certain disappointment like Ebron.

[wab]

I'd love for Horsted to turn into Hooper and for Holtz to turn into Kittle (or some version thereof). I hope it happens.

[IE]

I'd love for Horsted to turn into Hooper and for Holtz to turn into Kittle (or some version thereof). I hope it happens.

I know we basically know it won't. But am hanging my hat on at least one of them contributing a lot more when given opportunity. Maybe stepping up and delivering similar to what Burton did in '18 ... I think that is reasonable to be optimistic about. I do believe if H & H get 60 ish targets they'll have 50 receptions and 5 or more TDs.

That is about max what Ebron would bring - at much more palatable cost. It just seems like the most pragmatic approach. There doesn't seem like much incremental upside in any of the (very expensive) FA options.

In the draft it seems unlikely to get a contribute-now guy. I guess if Stafford stayed healthy Hockenson would have made more impact. So maybe the ND kid would be a good pick. I wouldn't complain if they grabbed a TE in the draft. But the FA thing to me is definitely a "please -no"

[Drone7]

I prefer dealing with the worst problem at TE--inline blocking-- in FA with someone more affordable than Hooper. And Hooper might not make it to market.

Nick Vannett would be my target if he makes it to market. He's serviceable.

Keep Shaheen around but make him earn a roster spot. Maybe the new TE coach can reach the big dope and get him to build up his strength and actually run a deceptive route for a change. If not, cut his ass.

Pace grossly overpaid for Burton because the U is very important in the O. Understandable. And he's decent at pass receiving when healthy, which is obviously a big question mark with his brittle history here. And owed a significant sum, so he will likely be the U in 2020. Decent receiver, not a good blocker, and nothing special after the catch, although his timed speed was better than Horsted's.

Horsted has interesting natural receiving talent with good hands and should improve with his brains / desire. More flexible natural ability than Dr Braunecker. But Horsted was a 4.8 guy with a modest vertical before he bulked up so he isn't explosive. Maybe he can stick around with STs and be a backup U.

Holtz is a rugged guy that can lead block, which is needed and should be used more often than it has been either in offset or straight I, and is physical on STs, so a keeper, but he's not very agile or flexible, so just a role player.

They should draft a more athletic TE than any they have. Maybe even 2 TEs if they like what they see on the clock.

[wab]

I'd love for Horsted to turn into Hooper and for Holtz to turn into Kittle (or some version thereof). I hope it happens.

I know we basically know it won't. But am hanging my hat on at least one of them contributing a lot more when given opportunity. Maybe stepping up and delivering similar to what Burton did in '18 ... I think that is reasonable to be optimistic about. I do believe if H & H get 60 ish targets they'll have 50 receptions and 5 or more TDs.

That is about max what Ebron would bring - at much more palatable cost. It just seems like the most pragmatic approach. There doesn't seem like much incremental upside in any of the (very expensive) FA options.

In the draft it seems unlikely to get a contribute-now guy. I guess if Stafford stayed healthy Hockenson would have made more impact. So maybe the ND kid would be a good pick. I wouldn't complain if they grabbed a TE in the draft. But the FA thing to me is definitely a "please -no"

You are slowly getting me on board with this line of thinking. I will say that I'm only on board with this Ebron thing if he comes at a 1yr rental price. Because there's not room in the cap for two high-priced and injury riddled tight ends.

[The Marshall Plan]

Ok, we have a 3 page thread about Eric Ebron.

He played in 11 games and had 375 yards receiving in 2019.

Since OL is the real problem, can we have a 50 pager about that instead?

[BreadNCircuses]

Ok, we have a 3 page thread about Eric Ebron.

He played in 11 games and had 375 yards receiving in 2019.

Since OL is the real problem, can we have a 50 pager about that instead?

The difficulty there is it's hard to get 50 pages out of essentially finding a RG and looking for development/backup depth. given the contracts in place, Leno and Massie aren't going anywhere this year, Daniels and Whitehair aren't the problems, so there we are.

[AZ_Bearfan]

Signing Ebron is definitely growing on me. I know he's shown some interest on Twitter, so maybe a 1 year prove it deal can be made. That and him and Trubisky being ex-teammates is making this move make more and more sense IMO.

[thunderspirit]

If we're talking about TEs in this thread then we have to wonder if the same issue isn't true for this position as with RB. Was it a complete dearth of talent behind Burton or was there a greater underlying cause for the utter lack of production from the position?

You're right... back on topic:

It is a complete lack of talent at the position. Again, look at how TEs are targeted in this system:

Bingo.

The only person who thinks Eric Ebron is on par with Travis Kelce and Zach Ertz is Eric Ebron.

[IE]

Signing Ebron is definitely growing on me. I know he's shown some interest on Twitter, so maybe a 1 year prove it deal can be made. That and him and Trubisky being ex-teammates is making this move make more and more sense IMO.

They didn't play together at NC, so there's no history to build upon.

I don't get why he's growing on you. He has a reputation for drops and a 60% catch rate, including in his big season where Luck found him over & over in the red zone. He's not a good blocker. He's going to cost Burton money. He just had surgery on both ankles.

The idea that he thinks Chicago is desperate and wants Chicago to pay him doesn't make him attractive to me.

[wab]

I 100% do not want him at Burton money.