Page 2 of 3

Re: Possible OC Target: Bill Lazor

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:02 am
by Boris13c
HurricaneBear wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:16 am Why does everyone think the OC does nothing here? The OC runs the offense throughout the week and installs the game plans while Nagy's head coaching. Sure the OC doesn't call plays but theres far more to the job than just calling plays. Nagy talked about this during last offseason in his pressers
that is what a normal OC would be doing

we do not know what Nagy's ideas on this are

did he hire Lazor to truly be the OC? to create the game plans and maybe (gasp) call plays?

or did he hire Lazor to simply appear to be open to change and quiet his critics, while all the while creating even more gimmicks which he will now have someone else to blame when they fail?

I am optimistic this will be a team effort with Lazor and Nagy, AND Trubisky, so they can all co-exist and come up with something that can be useful and effective ... but I won't hold my breath

don't forget, Nagy himself said after one loss "I know we need to run the ball more. I'm not an idiot." then proceeded to run the ball maybe 10 times the next game, indicating to me that yes, he is an idiot to some degree

so let's see what our idiot comes up with now that he has a chosen buddy to bounce things off of

Re: Possible OC Target: Bill Lazor

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:06 am
by wab
Boris13c wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:02 am
HurricaneBear wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:16 am Why does everyone think the OC does nothing here? The OC runs the offense throughout the week and installs the game plans while Nagy's head coaching. Sure the OC doesn't call plays but theres far more to the job than just calling plays. Nagy talked about this during last offseason in his pressers
that is what a normal OC would be doing

we do not know what Nagy's ideas on this are

did he hire Lazor to truly be the OC? to create the game plans and maybe (gasp) call plays?

or did he hire Lazor to simply appear to be open to change and quiet his critics, while all the while creating even more gimmicks which he will now have someone else to blame when they fail?

I am optimistic this will be a team effort with Lazor and Nagy, AND Trubisky, so they can all co-exist and come up with something that can be useful and effective ... but I won't hold my breath

don't forget, Nagy himself said after one loss "I know we need to run the ball more. I'm not an idiot." then proceeded to run the ball maybe 10 times the next game, indicating to me that yes, he is an idiot to some degree

so let's see what our idiot comes up with now that he has a chosen buddy to bounce things off of
I mean, we DO know that the OC installs the game plan during the week. Nagy has said it a number of times. People around here act like the dude just gets Nagy coffee every morning and then just colors in the corner the rest of the day.

I thought we were smarter than this and above all the hot takes.

Re: Reports: Nagy hires Bill Lazor as OC

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:08 am
by dplank
I'm disappointed we didn't get Shurmur....BUT....I'm glad he got a guy with NFL OC experience under his belt. I'm going to stay cautiously optimistic here, at one point Lazor was considered HC material. Helfrich was awful, I have to believe Lazor is an upgrade.

One other thing. Sometimes just a fresh POV really helps, Lazor can take a step back view of the season, play calling, etc and will be able to show Matt the forest through the trees so to speak. Like, hey, you were running the ball well here, why did you get away from it? Why did you go to these trick plays when you got in the red zone after moving the ball so effectively to get there? Stuff like that, when in the moment you might not see the error of your ways and you don't have a justification/answer for every mistake you've made.

Re: Possible OC Target: Bill Lazor

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:25 am
by Umbali
wab wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:06 am
Boris13c wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:02 am

that is what a normal OC would be doing

we do not know what Nagy's ideas on this are

did he hire Lazor to truly be the OC? to create the game plans and maybe (gasp) call plays?

or did he hire Lazor to simply appear to be open to change and quiet his critics, while all the while creating even more gimmicks which he will now have someone else to blame when they fail?

I am optimistic this will be a team effort with Lazor and Nagy, AND Trubisky, so they can all co-exist and come up with something that can be useful and effective ... but I won't hold my breath

don't forget, Nagy himself said after one loss "I know we need to run the ball more. I'm not an idiot." then proceeded to run the ball maybe 10 times the next game, indicating to me that yes, he is an idiot to some degree

so let's see what our idiot comes up with now that he has a chosen buddy to bounce things off of
I mean, we DO know that the OC installs the game plan during the week. Nagy has said it a number of times. People around here act like the dude just gets Nagy coffee every morning and then just colors in the corner the rest of the day.

I thought we were smarter than this and above all the hot takes.


Not sure where you got that idea lol

Re: Reports: Nagy hires Bill Lazor as OC

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:40 am
by BR0D1E86
I'm still in the "I'm so glad it's not Ragone" honeymoon phase.

Re: Reports: Nagy hires Bill Lazor as OC

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:13 pm
by wab
BR0D1E86 wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:40 am I'm still in the "I'm so glad it's not Ragone" honeymoon phase.
Me. Too.

Re: Reports: Nagy hires Bill Lazor as OC

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:39 pm
by Richie
I wanted Shurmur but also knew it to be unlikely. I'm happy that it's not Ragone.

This is a fine hire, IMO. Lazor has experience as an OC and had the Bengals in a good spot offensively in 2018 before they just got ravaged by injuries.

So far as being "away from the game for a year"? It seems pretty irrelevant. A lot of coaches have had year-long gaps in their resume before returning without an issue.

Shurmur is an established and respected play caller, coming off of a HC gig. I think that you were out to lunch if you felt that he was legitimately on his way here.

Re: Reports: Nagy hires Bill Lazor as OC

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:56 pm
by The Cooler King
I'd echo what many others have said.

+Brings real NFL experience.
+Not Dave Ragone.
-Not a thrilling body of work, but not alarming either

Yes, Nagy will likely maintain control of play calling. But I kind of prefer that. As an offensive head coach, I feel his floor would be kind of limited if he was reliant on hiring offensive coordinators, as the best ones will want to go places with more autonomy, like we just saw with Shurmur. So he either figures it out as a play caller and improves, or he doesn't and we figure out a lot quicker that they just need to move on.

Apparently Nagy originally tried to hire him in 2018 but he opted to stay in Cincy. Wouldn't be surprised if Castillo was his first choice for OL too. Hopefully Nagy is surrounding him with the type of staff he wanted from the get-go. Developing his staff will be important though as he probably doesn't have the widest of nets for replacements.

Re: Bill Lazor offensive philosophy

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:59 pm
by Drone7
The Bears won't discard Nagy's verbose WC verbiage.

What I like about the hiring is that unlike Nagy, Lazor has a lot of experience in different running and passing systems and a lot of experience successfully working with different QBs. He strikes me as being brighter than Nagy.

We haven't seen much growth in Trubisky's fundamentals with Nagy and Ragone, so bringing in a guy that might reach him better is good at this critical juncture of Trubisky's career.

I like that he focuses on concepts because they underpin how a QB and his receivers react to coverages, which is what guys like Trubisky and Miller need to get better at

Anyway, Helfrich also came across as a smart guy, but his foundations were built in the college game, whereas Lazor knows the gamut of pro systems and also has a fairly current knowledge of the NFL for game planning. .Shurmur has a deeper knowledge of the division and NFC, but the Bears had no chance getting a top play caller to play second fiddle to Nagy.

I'm guessing Lazor begins by pouring over the playbook then becoming involved in the Bears' self-scouting process as an autopsy, but also to lay the groundwork for informing the Personnel Dept about their needs, which are multiple. Probably in late Spring when the rosters are set, he will start game planning the schedule.

I also hope he reins in Nagy on his penchant for making questionable calls like going empty set on early downs or on short down n distance...or bringing a slot receiver around for a pitch in the red zone. More common sense.

Re: Reports: Nagy hires Bill Lazor as OC

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:01 pm
by crueltyabc
I'm trying to connect the dots here and can't do it. How does Nagy know this guy? How does this guy know Reid/Nagy's system?

Re: Reports: Nagy hires Bill Lazor as OC

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:03 pm
by The Cooler King
crueltyabc wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:01 pm I'm trying to connect the dots here and can't do it. How does Nagy know this guy? How does this guy know Reid/Nagy's system?
There is no direct link. He's got some WC/zone background though, along with some other schemes. Also has RPO background.

Re: Reports: Nagy hires Bill Lazor as OC

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:11 pm
by crueltyabc
I just noticed he was the Dolphins OC in that season where Ryan Tannehill and Lamar Miller looked sorta good. This makes me more optimistic than the Bengals years. I could see some of the same stuff that worked for those dolphins working for our current offensive personnel.

Re: Reports: Nagy hires Bill Lazor as OC

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:21 pm
by The Cooler King
crueltyabc wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:11 pm I just noticed he was the Dolphins OC in that season where Ryan Tannehill and Lamar Miller looked sorta good. This makes me more optimistic than the Bengals years. I could see some of the same stuff that worked for those dolphins working for our current offensive personnel.
2014 was Tannehill's first good year. But then dropped off in 2015. But he was also under a offensive HC in Philbin, so it's hard to really know how much credit/blame to assign. It would be curious to see how play calling changed for Tannehill from 12-14 as it was Philbin/Sherman to Philbin/Lazor.

2013 is probably the feather in his cap with coaching Foles to that great 2013 run.

Looking at his first run in the NFL with WAS/SEA, not a good looking resume at all. Hasselback was awful under him in SEA and Jason Campbell got much better after he left WAS. Not surprised he ended up in college after those two NFL stints. Seems Foles helped reestablish his NFL credibility and the results have been meh, but way better than his early NFL results. Still 47 so he's got lots of tread left, even though NFL coaches have started trending much younger lately.

Re: Bill Lazor offensive philosophy

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:36 pm
by The Cooler King
dplank wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:47 am Found this article on him from the 2018 Bengals that discuss his coaching philosophy...

https://www.bengals.com/news/lazor-over ... n-20555917

Seems all over the place...West Coast but with Air Coryell verbiage...
Unsurprisingly a fluffy article, but:
“From my experience with Coach Holmgren, I’d say what the West Coast is, is the way you build the passing game to coach the quarterback,” Lazor said. “It’s a thought process, a philosophy of how the passing game is going to work. And it really is embedded in how the quarterback is going to play. His decisiveness and the way you build everything so he can play at a certain tempo.”
I know there's a lot of speculation that Lazor's focus will be on the run, but to the extent the run game will be reliant on RPO, if he can coach up Mitchell's decision making at all, it could really stabilize his play. I know it's a tall ask, but hopefully it works out.

Re: Reports: Nagy hires Bill Lazor as OC

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:46 pm
by l8knight
I don't have much faith anymore, which sucks. I have become the Scrooge of Bear-fandom. This hire does nothing to change how I view the team or give me any inkling of hope for next season. I think the only thing that will give me hope is a real competitive QB that either elevates Trubisky or benches him. Not only that, some signs of improvement in the OL. I'm not an expert by any means when it comes to OL play, so I can't really offer ideas to the how.. Castillo has a great record as OL coach, so maybe that in itself will be enough.

Re: Bill Lazor offensive philosophy

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:27 pm
by Mikefive
The Cooler King wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:36 pm
dplank wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:47 am Found this article on him from the 2018 Bengals that discuss his coaching philosophy...

https://www.bengals.com/news/lazor-over ... n-20555917

Seems all over the place...West Coast but with Air Coryell verbiage...
Unsurprisingly a fluffy article, but:
“From my experience with Coach Holmgren, I’d say what the West Coast is, is the way you build the passing game to coach the quarterback,” Lazor said. “It’s a thought process, a philosophy of how the passing game is going to work. And it really is embedded in how the quarterback is going to play. His decisiveness and the way you build everything so he can play at a certain tempo.”
I know there's a lot of speculation that Lazor's focus will be on the run, but to the extent the run game will be reliant on RPO, if he can coach up Mitchell's decision making at all, it could really stabilize his play. I know it's a tall ask, but hopefully it works out.
That Holmgren quote meshes with what we heard a lot from TC Nagy, talking about how Mitch's eyes need to be in the right place. Clearly, those eyes aren't moving fast enough from target to target. Let's hope Lazor can teach 10 how to move those eyes right.

Re: Reports: Nagy hires Bill Lazor as OC

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:59 pm
by BR0D1E86
I don't know enough to really care one way or the other. If the issues with blocking were truly a result of differing blocking philosophies in the offensive coaching room and this solves it, I guess I'm fine with it. I'm skeptical, but I guess we'll find out next season.

Re: Possible OC Target: Bill Lazor

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:15 pm
by Moriarty
Drone7 wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:08 pm The Bears weren't going to get a top notch OC with Nagy remaining as the play caller.
Many people hoped Nagy would voluntarily or be forced to give up remaining as play caller.
dplank wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:42 pm Unsuccessful stints with the Dolphins and Bengals do not inspire confidence. Nagy took a JAG so he can basically keep running the show. No excuses, we either show significant improvement next season on offense or Nagy should be fired as should Pace.
yup

Re: Possible OC Target: Bill Lazor

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:31 pm
by Boris13c
wab wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:06 am
Boris13c wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:02 am

that is what a normal OC would be doing

we do not know what Nagy's ideas on this are

did he hire Lazor to truly be the OC? to create the game plans and maybe (gasp) call plays?

or did he hire Lazor to simply appear to be open to change and quiet his critics, while all the while creating even more gimmicks which he will now have someone else to blame when they fail?

I am optimistic this will be a team effort with Lazor and Nagy, AND Trubisky, so they can all co-exist and come up with something that can be useful and effective ... but I won't hold my breath

don't forget, Nagy himself said after one loss "I know we need to run the ball more. I'm not an idiot." then proceeded to run the ball maybe 10 times the next game, indicating to me that yes, he is an idiot to some degree

so let's see what our idiot comes up with now that he has a chosen buddy to bounce things off of
I mean, we DO know that the OC installs the game plan during the week. Nagy has said it a number of times. People around here act like the dude just gets Nagy coffee every morning and then just colors in the corner the rest of the day.

I thought we were smarter than this and above all the hot takes.

I wasn't trying to imply he was hired to do nothing ... I was questioning the level of impact he may have and how much power/control Nagy is willing to give him ... will he be a true full OC or some reigned in hybrid?

I want this to be a collaborative success story rather than a sideshow

Re: Possible OC Target: Bill Lazor

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:50 pm
by Richie
Moriarty wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:15 pm
Drone7 wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:08 pm The Bears weren't going to get a top notch OC with Nagy remaining as the play caller.
Many people hoped Nagy would voluntarily or be forced to give up remaining as play caller.
dplank wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:42 pm Unsuccessful stints with the Dolphins and Bengals do not inspire confidence. Nagy took a JAG so he can basically keep running the show. No excuses, we either show significant improvement next season on offense or Nagy should be fired as should Pace.
yup
Many people hoped Nagy would voluntarily or be forced to give up remaining as play caller.
Yeah, but that had already been shot down by the organization immediately following the conclusion of the season.

Re: Reports: Nagy hires Bill Lazor as OC

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:19 am
by G08

Albert Breer wrote:The marriage of Bill Lazor and the Bears will be interesting—Lazor’s known for simplifying scheme for players, weaponizing tempo and finding a way to get guys playing fast. With a quarterback, in Mitch Trubisky, who often seems to think too much on the field, injecting that influence into Matt Nagy’s offense could be a godsend.

Re: Reports: Nagy hires Bill Lazor as OC

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:11 pm
by dplank
I'd take 31 TD and 9 INT + efficient and effective lol....Dalton would do well here.

Re: Reports: Nagy hires Bill Lazor as OC

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:40 pm
by G08
dplank wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:11 pm I'd take 31 TD and 9 INT + efficient and effective lol....Dalton would do well here.
Didn't care for the yardage output but shit, I'll GLADLY take 31 TDs and 9 INTs for a 16 game season.

2013 was the last time we accomplished/surpassed that with 32.

Re: Reports: Nagy hires Bill Lazor as OC

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:56 pm
by IE
31 and 9? Sign me up!

I like that stuff... "weaponizing tempo" (the less 10 has time to get into his own head the better) and "simplifying scheme" (I personally think the Oline suffered from too much complexity).

I don't care if this guy is coloring or coordinating or calling ... as long as he gets it through Nagy's head to do not works not what he wishes would work.

Re: Reports: Nagy hires Bill Lazor as OC

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:03 pm
by G08

Re: Reports: Nagy hires Bill Lazor as OC

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:10 pm
by Moriarty
G08 wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:19 am
Albert Breer wrote:The marriage of Bill Lazor and the Bears will be interesting—Lazor’s known for simplifying scheme for players, weaponizing tempo and finding a way to get guys playing fast. With a quarterback, in Mitch Trubisky, who often seems to think too much on the field, injecting that influence into Matt Nagy’s offense could be a godsend.
We still don't know if Lazor will be allowed to have much influence, but, hey, it's something potentially positive.

Re: Reports: Nagy hires Bill Lazor as OC

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:23 pm
by G08
Moriarty wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:10 pm
G08 wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:19 am

We still don't know if Lazor will be allowed to have much influence, but, hey, it's something potentially positive.
For sure but if we can glean anything from the rumblings about Helfrich and Hiestand being fired, he should have a prominent role in the run game. I also love that he has exposure to multiple systems, that tells me he will have thoughts on myriad concepts in the passing game as well which could be wonderful for a creative-type like Nagy.

The 2014 Dolphins improved from 4.1 to 4.7 yards per carry and the 2018 Bengals improved from 3.6 to 4.7.

Doesn't guarantee anything here but seeing that gives me some level of comfort.

Re: Reports: Nagy hires Bill Lazor as OC

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:17 pm
by Otis Day
G08 wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:19 am
Albert Breer wrote:The marriage of Bill Lazor and the Bears will be interesting—Lazor’s known for simplifying scheme for players, weaponizing tempo and finding a way to get guys playing fast. With a quarterback, in Mitch Trubisky, who often seems to think too much on the field, injecting that influence into Matt Nagy’s offense could be a godsend.
Dalton missed 5 games in 2017. His season totals were:

comp % = 61
yds = 2566, yds/att = 7
yds/game = 233
TDs = 21
ints = 11

2018 (16 games)

comp % = 60
yds = 3320
yds/game = 207, yds/att = 6.6
TDs = 25
ints = 12

Cincy's O rank in 2017 was last in the NFL. 27th rank passing O
Cincy's O rank in 2018 was 26, 24th ranked passing O.

Re: Reports: Nagy hires Bill Lazor as OC

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:19 pm
by AZ_Bearfan
https://ontapsportsnet.com/2020/01/15/d ... ordinator/

Nice little peek into his past stats, showing how much better he performs as a QB coach vs. a true OC calling plays. Maybe this is a perfect fit?

Re: Reports: Nagy hires Bill Lazor as OC

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:59 pm
by G08
"Lazor"

Image

:lol: