Leonard Floyd

[southdakbearfan]

I'd be good with that 4 year $30 million contract. I'd also like to see significant focus on both of the lines.

And that's exactly how teams get in Cap hell, not being able to afford impact players.

I have never said he was a contributor, he just isn't worth what it is going to take to extend him in my opinion.

There are other players, far outperforming him, that will need that money, like Kwit. To give him that dollar amount basically based on his draft position from 4 years ago is crazy.

[Mikefive]

It is a team sport. Floyd has consistently been part of a pretty good D while other things changed. Because of that I reject the notion that he has been a liability more than an asset. People said the same thing about Amos - that he himself wasn't that great and could be easily replaced. But even though the Pack probably overpaid a bit the Bears were impacted dramatically by having to fill the role Amos played. It impacted the OTHER players who had to adjust. That's a fact.

Just because the guy's impact can't be completely quantified doesn't mean it isn't there, and maybe even substantial. The '18 D was epic, with very little weakness. Floyd was part of that - not a weakness. And the '19 D was pretty darn good even with the lack of turnovers and major losses due to injury. Floyd was part of that too. It isn't just acceptable that he played no role in helping keep the ship upright.

So the assertion that he could be swapped for any other 3-4 sack OLB is only true on paper, when folks are counting numbers.

And again... all this is also a function of the finances. If Floyd, like Amos, is going to want compensation that hurts the team overall... then that becomes a big factor. But it is "oh well, we have to move on from the guy", and NOT "He sucks and there will be no loss". There WILL be a loss if he goes - and nobody knows the extent of it better than the coaches. So let's see what happens.

By this logic, it's not possible for any player on a good defense to be a liability, no matter how much good players are sacrificing themselves to cover up his inadequacy. I see where you're going, but to be so black and white about it seems sketchy, unless you can back up your assertions with tape.

Perhaps an interesting question in this is... What do you trust to be more reliable? Bringing Floyd back at whatever his middlin' price is? Or Pace's replacement in the current market?

[The Cooler King]

By this logic, it's not possible for any player on a good defense to be a liability, no matter how much good players are sacrificing themselves to cover up his inadequacy. I see where you're going, but to be so black and white about it seems sketchy, unless you can back up your assertions with tape.

Honestly I think there's more burden of proof on those claiming he sucks. It may not be black and white, but doesn't add up without proof.

No one is out here arguing that he's a good pass rusher, either. I think some just are too narrowly focused on that as the singular measure of value.

[IE]

I'd love to read somebody explain why giving Floyd more money v investing in the OL is a good idea.

That's a false choice.

[IE]

It is a team sport. Floyd has consistently been part of a pretty good D while other things changed. Because of that I reject the notion that he has been a liability more than an asset. People said the same thing about Amos - that he himself wasn't that great and could be easily replaced. But even though the Pack probably overpaid a bit the Bears were impacted dramatically by having to fill the role Amos played. It impacted the OTHER players who had to adjust. That's a fact.

Just because the guy's impact can't be completely quantified doesn't mean it isn't there, and maybe even substantial. The '18 D was epic, with very little weakness. Floyd was part of that - not a weakness. And the '19 D was pretty darn good even with the lack of turnovers and major losses due to injury. Floyd was part of that too. It isn't just acceptable that he played no role in helping keep the ship upright.

So the assertion that he could be swapped for any other 3-4 sack OLB is only true on paper, when folks are counting numbers.

And again... all this is also a function of the finances. If Floyd, like Amos, is going to want compensation that hurts the team overall... then that becomes a big factor. But it is "oh well, we have to move on from the guy", and NOT "He sucks and there will be no loss". There WILL be a loss if he goes - and nobody knows the extent of it better than the coaches. So let's see what happens.

By this logic, it's not possible for any player on a good defense to be a liability, no matter how much good players are sacrificing themselves to cover up his inadequacy. I see where you're going, but to be so black and white about it seems sketchy, unless you can back up your assertions with tape.

Perhaps an interesting question in this is... What do you trust to be more reliable? Bringing Floyd back at whatever his middlin' price is? Or Pace's replacement in the current market?

I think it is reasonably logical - to say that all players on the league top D must be at least average - with most above average in addition to several stars. Average does not equal suck. It doesn't mean liability. And especially with several guys falling away this year, I think it is safe to say the remaining starters are the ones holding it together.

Me personally? I'd go with the Devil we know and continue to work with him versus a replacement value guy at the price at which we expect Floyd to re-sign. But I won't cry if they swap him out with someone else. If that happens, of course we all hope it works out.

[BR0D1E86]

By this logic, it's not possible for any player on a good defense to be a liability, no matter how much good players are sacrificing themselves to cover up his inadequacy. I see where you're going, but to be so black and white about it seems sketchy, unless you can back up your assertions with tape.

Honestly I think there's more burden of proof on those claiming he sucks. It may not be black and white, but doesn't add up without proof.

No one is out here arguing that he's a good pass rusher, either. I think some just are too narrowly focused on that as the singular measure of value.

I certainly don't think he sucks. I do think that 13 million, even for only one season, is an absurd rate for what he provides though.

[The Marshall Plan]

I'd love to read somebody explain why giving Floyd more money v investing in the OL is a good idea.

That's a false choice.

Not with the salary cap. But, I'm serious, if there's a way to solve the o-line problem I'm all ears.

I like @dplank 's idea with getting a "name", but the cap situation isn't favorable to doing that. I'd prefer doing both of drafting someone in the second round and trying to sign a "name".

We have two pieces (Whitehair and Daniels) out of the five. There's room for improvement everywhere else.

[IE]

That's a false choice.

Not with the salary cap. But, I'm serious, if there's a way to solve the o-line problem I'm all ears.

I like @dplank 's idea with getting a "name", but the cap situation isn't favorable to doing that. I'd prefer doing both of drafting someone in the second round and trying to sign a "name".

We have two pieces (Whitehair and Daniels) out of the five. There's room for improvement everywhere else.

It is a false choice. The "Floyd or the Oline" is pretending they can't do both. They will likely do both. Floyd will either leave or get an extension and market raise. And they're likely going to do one or two things on the line, at RG and/or draft a T. The Bears don't have 2 pieces for 2020. They have 4, because of dollar commitments to the Ts. Those two guys not going anywhere. And like wab said, they're not going to blow valuable FA dollars on a T and then bench an expensive player. They're just not.

Everyone needs to accept here that EVERYONE else knows the Line performed poorly. It takes zero insight or expertise to have seen & know that. I believe people should stop being so repetitive and spend WAY more time considering WHY. Because young players don't go from serviceable and even borderline good to so terrible - across the board! Something the coaches did was a huge clusterfuck, impacted the entire line, and gave us that shitshow all year. Those OTs didn't get those contracts because they sucked.

[The Cooler King]

Honestly I think there's more burden of proof on those claiming he sucks. It may not be black and white, but doesn't add up without proof.

No one is out here arguing that he's a good pass rusher, either. I think some just are too narrowly focused on that as the singular measure of value.

I certainly don't think he sucks. I do think that 13 million, even for only one season, is an absurd rate for what he provides though.

I don't think a single person is advocating he be brought back at the option. There's a few who seemingly want nothing to do with him.

[dplank]

Yea that's odd, he's a solid player just not a great pass rusher. Good guy/teammate too. But I'd rather apply his cap $$$ towards addressing our OL issues and since he's just a solid all around player that seems replaceable without breaking the bank like you would on a major pass rusher. That keeps us roughly at par on defense, while significantly enhancing our offense.

[wab]

I'd love to read somebody explain why giving Floyd more money v investing in the OL is a good idea.

More money than what?

TMP will never give an inch when it comes to “the worst pick in Bears history”.

[The Marshall Plan]

More money than what?

TMP will never give an inch when it comes to “the worst pick in Bears history”.

You know it.

I think picking Floyd might've torn a hole in space time.

Taken #9 overall. Yes draft position matters. You don't take an OLB #9 overall to drop into coverage and to have good intangibles. At that draft position the expectation is a pass rusher. He's been injured over multiple years. He's played for two of the best defensive minds in football. Opportunity after opportunity.

Since playing with Khalil Mack he's had 7 sacks; OVER TWO YEARS! Two fucking years playing opposite LT 2.0.

All he had to do was perform to his draft position. 10 sacks or thereabouts per year. I don't think we make the Mack trade then. If for no other reason than Floyd would be commanding a mega deal and we'd have to pay Mack too. The money alone would make that trade near impossible.

His clusterfuckery therefore has cost us 3 first round draft choices and a fourth rounder (because of the trade up in 2016).

The Raiders used one of those first rounders to take Josh Jacobs. The same RB who tore us a new asshole in 2019. Now granted, Pace probably doesn't draft Josh Jacobs. You'd have to want a running game and to know what you're doing in order to do something like that.

We have QB problems and OL problems. Wouldn't it be nice to have a first rounder this year?

I think drafting Floyd fucked this franchise for at least half a decade.

[Nick]

TMP will never give an inch when it comes to “the worst pick in Bears history”.

You know it.

I think picking Floyd might've torn a hole in space time.

Taken #9 overall. Yes draft position matters. You don't take an OLB #9 overall to drop into coverage and to have good intangibles. At that draft position the expectation is a pass rusher. He's been injured over multiple years. He's played for two of the best defensive minds in football. Opportunity after opportunity.

Since playing with Khalil Mack he's had 7 sacks; OVER TWO YEARS! Two fucking years playing opposite LT 2.0.

All he had to do was perform to his draft position. 10 sacks or thereabouts per year. I don't think we make the Mack trade then. If for no other reason than Floyd would be commanding a mega deal and we'd have to pay Mack too. The money alone would make that trade near impossible.

His clusterfuckery therefore has cost us 3 first round draft choices and a fourth rounder (because of the trade up in 2016).

The Raiders used one of those first rounders to take Josh Jacobs. The same RB who tore us a new asshole in 2019. Now granted, Pace probably doesn't draft Josh Jacobs. You'd have to want a running game and to know what you're doing in order to do something like that.

We have QB problems and OL problems. Wouldn't it be nice to have a first rounder this year?

I think drafting Floyd fucked this franchise for at least half a decade.

Trying to make Floyd look like a solid pick is like trying to polish a turd.

[IE]

OMG. A butterfly flapped its wings in Asia, and look at what happened to the Bear pass rush. Totally makes sense.

[The Cooler King]

Even if this crazy, Floyd costs us everything rabbit hole logic was legit (it's not), it has nothing to do with the decision on him this offseason. All those things would just be sunk costs.