Formerly a Wade Phillips thread, now "I Hate Chuck Pagano"

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Z Bear
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:34 pm

Have you ever heard Fangio speak? He is not much of a rah-rah guy, very laid back. Fangio has been an extremely well regarded DC for years, but never impressed enough people to get many HC interviews. I saw a few Denver games this year and saw some bad challenges and very conservative play calling from Denver. Vic strikes me as a defensive mastermind, but not someone I would want leading my team.
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HisRoyalSweetness
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:52 pm

Have you ever heard Belichick speak? He is not much of a rah-rah guy, very laid back... ;)

It's way too early to judge Fangio as a head coach.
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:02 am

G08 wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:09 pm
dplank wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:13 pm
Well, I disagree, but I don't want to become the board "Gibron" so best to leave it be...
2019 Chicago Bears League Rankings:

Yards/game - 8th
Passing yards/game - 9th
Rushing yards/game - 9th
Points/game - 4th
Takeaways - 22nd

2018 Chicago Bears League Rankings:

Yards/game - 3rd
Passing yards/game - 7th
Rushing yards/game - 1st
Points/game - 1st
Takeaways - 1st

So, yeah, I agree there was regression there. But I can't sit here and tell you Pagano didn't do a solid job this season, man. Our D was banged up and we still only gave up 0.9 more points per game than last season.
+1. When you come down to it, keeping the other team out of the end zone is most important.
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G08
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:47 am

Grizzled wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:02 am
G08 wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:09 pm


2019 Chicago Bears League Rankings:

Yards/game - 8th
Passing yards/game - 9th
Rushing yards/game - 9th
Points/game - 4th
Takeaways - 22nd

2018 Chicago Bears League Rankings:

Yards/game - 3rd
Passing yards/game - 7th
Rushing yards/game - 1st
Points/game - 1st
Takeaways - 1st

So, yeah, I agree there was regression there. But I can't sit here and tell you Pagano didn't do a solid job this season, man. Our D was banged up and we still only gave up 0.9 more points per game than last season.
+1. When you come down to it, keeping the other team out of the end zone is most important.
Agreed. As @dplank mentioned I did forget to post sacks and he said we were much lower in production there than in 2018. I'm a big believer in pressure, I think turnovers increase when the QB is under duress so hopefully we'll see that corrected next season.
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First 41 starts in NFL (updated weekly):

Drew Brees: 61.2% | 8261 yards | 52 TDs | 37 INTs | 6.60 YPA | 82.2 rating

Mitch Trubisky: 63.4% | 8554 yards | 48 TDs | 29 INTs | 6.7 YPA | 85.8 rating
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The Marshall Plan
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:01 pm

G08 wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:47 am
Grizzled wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:02 am


+1. When you come down to it, keeping the other team out of the end zone is most important.
Agreed. As @dplank mentioned I did forget to post sacks and he said we were much lower in production there than in 2018. I'm a big believer in pressure, I think turnovers increase when the QB is under duress so hopefully we'll see that corrected next season.
Yes.

Post some more stats....

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:evilgrin:
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The Grizzly One
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:50 pm

The Marshall Plan wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:06 am
I have no idea why it is so hard for some to understand that the shit show on offense negatively impacted the defense. Its a Festivus Miracle that the defense wasn't totally in the crapper.
This ^^^^^^

Way too much reading to do, so not much posting for now. But I had to jump in here.

Sorry DP, you're wrong. I prefer Pags over soft Fangio.

This past season was such a disappointment. The blame is all about Matt "Razzle Dazzle" Nagy. The league caught up to his tricks and the offense was, not only disappointing, not just poor, nor even merely bad. It was an abomination.

The defense couldn't hold up to that and that is your regression.

You always mention his Indy defense. They spent no high draft picks on defense, thus they had no blue chip guys. They were so high on Pags from his reputation, and results, in Baltimore. They figured he could take scraps, rejects, and leftovers and make a defense that could hold up just a little bit to assist their mighty offense.

Anyway guys. DP is a great Bears fan. Very emotional and wears them front and center. He is also very stubborn. (I could be wrong but I think in his younger days he taught young mules in the art of stubbornness.) He is a very bright and and overall great guy. He wont brag about himself, but he has worked with many NFL people and has connections.

His two biggest weaknesses, Pagano and Chase Daniel.(Don't ask, please don't.)
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dplank
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:13 am

hehehehehe, I won't be going down the Chase Daniel rabbit hole again lmao....

Re: Pagano, would it help if I mentioned that i worked with him for a year in Baltimore? GREAT GREAT GREAT guy, I mean that sincerely, but he was a hanger on for that great defense, not a chief contributor until the other coaches got hired away in front of him and he was left with (much like the situation here in Chicago) the keys to a Porsche. That defense did well under him for 1 season (ranked 3rd), and he was immediately snapped up to Indy, where as soon as it was all on him the truth was revealed. Very poor results in Indy when it was his show. I think he was the 4th or 5th Ravens defensive coach to get a HC job? Usually the most talented ones go 1st or 2nd. None of them were all that successful, Ray Lewis and Ed Reed made a lot of coaches look better than they were.

He was hired to bring good defense to Indy, he failed at that bigtime. The results are in my sig and they shouldn't be swept aside.
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 5 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
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The Marshall Plan
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Formerly a Wade Phillips thread, now "I Hate Chuck Pagano"

Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:58 pm

dplank wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:13 am
hehehehehe, I won't be going down the Chase Daniel rabbit hole again lmao....

Re: Pagano, would it help if I mentioned that i worked with him for a year in Baltimore?
No, it wouldn’t. A whole year? Gee whiz.
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G08
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Formerly a Wade Phillips thread, now "I Hate Chuck Pagano"

Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:12 pm

dplank wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:13 am

Re: Pagano, would it help if I mentioned that i worked with him for a year in Baltimore? GREAT GREAT GREAT guy, I mean that sincerely, but he was a hanger on for that great defense, not a chief contributor until the other coaches got hired away in front of him and he was left with (much like the situation here in Chicago) the keys to a Porsche. That defense did well under him for 1 season (ranked 3rd), and he was immediately snapped up to Indy, where as soon as it was all on him the truth was revealed. Very poor results in Indy when it was his show. I think he was the 4th or 5th Ravens defensive coach to get a HC job? Usually the most talented ones go 1st or 2nd. None of them were all that successful, Ray Lewis and Ed Reed made a lot of coaches look better than they were.

He was hired to bring good defense to Indy, he failed at that bigtime. The results are in my sig and they shouldn't be swept aside.
To be fair, that Indy defense wasn't exactly stacked with defensive talent. They were 28th in points allowed the year before his hire and improved to 21st his rookie year, followed by 9th his second year.
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First 41 starts in NFL (updated weekly):

Drew Brees: 61.2% | 8261 yards | 52 TDs | 37 INTs | 6.60 YPA | 82.2 rating

Mitch Trubisky: 63.4% | 8554 yards | 48 TDs | 29 INTs | 6.7 YPA | 85.8 rating
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dplank
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Formerly a Wade Phillips thread, now "I Hate Chuck Pagano"

Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:10 pm

We’ll see how it works out, I hope you guys are right but I’m skeptical.
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 5 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
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HisRoyalSweetness
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Formerly a Wade Phillips thread, now "I Hate Chuck Pagano"

Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:31 pm

Fair enough dplank. We all hope it works out.

It's really pretty simple though. The general consensus before the season was an expectation that there would be some drop off after losing Fangio, but that this would still be a top defense. That's basically what happened, so that's why most of us are fine with Pagano and aren't 'hitting the panic button' so to speak.

It's worth remembering how good the defense was through the first quarter of the season. We also have to acknowledge that they had more injuries to the front seven compared to 2018 and that the offense was woeful, both of which have an impact.

Last year the only areas that needed addressing were safety and nickle corner, with Amos and Callahan coming out of contract. This year Pace has a few more decisions to make. Let's hope he gets them right and gives Pagano the best chance of keeping this unit 'championship calibre'.
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Nick
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Formerly a Wade Phillips thread, now "I Hate Chuck Pagano"

Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:48 am

Is Pagano the guy we need as DC going forward? His defense didn't produce quite the impact we got from Fangio but neither was there a significant drop-off considering the loss of Hicks. I'd like to see a more aggressive approach to blitzing but I don't have any major gripes about Pagano at this point. Thoughts?
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Formerly a Wade Phillips thread, now "I Hate Chuck Pagano"

Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:58 am

Nick wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:48 am
Is Pagano the guy we need as DC going forward? His defense didn't produce quite the impact we got from Fangio but neither was there a significant drop-off considering the loss of Hicks. I'd like to see a more aggressive approach to blitzing but I don't have any major gripes about Pagano at this point. Thoughts?
Merging threads hating about Pagano.
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Re: Formerly a Wade Phillips thread, now "I Hate Chuck Pagano"

Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:52 am

This is going to be a long offseason.
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Re: Formerly a Wade Phillips thread, now "I Hate Chuck Pagano"

Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:26 pm

dplank wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:32 pm
We have people arguing that our TE group is fine. We have other people arguing that our OL was fine. And we have a ton of people preaching more patience with Mitch even though he's heading into year 4 (which is fine, but you have to at least hedge your bet at this point).
If there are people arguing that our TEs and OL are fine then they're very much in the minority. There are a lot of people pointing out that the team is limited in what they can do because of the contracts they've handed out to Burton, Leno and Massie. There's also the fact that all three were decent the season before and are still in their prime. Does one down season, with injuries for Burton and Massie, mean categorically that they're on the slide or is it reasonable to hope for them to return to form especially with a new set of coaches? That doesn't mean anyone's against bringing in fresh players and raising the level of competition for spots on the team, just that highly-priced free agents at those positions are likely not on the cards.

It's a similar situation with Trubisky. We don't have the draft capital to take a shot at another top prospect this year. Is there really a free agent QB out there who offers any better chance of success than Trubisky developing further? Do we really want Newton, Foles, Mariotta or Winston even if they do become available? Is that really going to solve the never-ending QB conundrum? Do we really want to spend big money on them? None of them are going to accept one year prove it deals.

Whatever changes we want to see, in order to convince others of their merit they have to have a) some degree of realism and b) a decent chance of actually making the team better. If members of this forum don't believe ideas meet these criteria then they'll give them short shrift.
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Re: Formerly a Wade Phillips thread, now "I Hate Chuck Pagano"

Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:42 pm

HisRoyalSweetness wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:26 pm
dplank wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:32 pm
We have people arguing that our TE group is fine. We have other people arguing that our OL was fine. And we have a ton of people preaching more patience with Mitch even though he's heading into year 4 (which is fine, but you have to at least hedge your bet at this point).
If there are people arguing that our TEs and OL are fine then they're very much in the minority. There are a lot of people pointing out that the team is limited in what they can do because of the contracts they've handed out to Burton, Leno and Massie. There's also the fact that all three were decent the season before and are still in their prime. Does one down season, with injuries for Burton and Massie, mean categorically that they're on the slide or is it reasonable to hope for them to return to form especially with a new set of coaches? That doesn't mean anyone's against bringing in fresh players and raising the level of competition for spots on the team, just that highly-priced free agents at those positions are likely not on the cards.

It's a similar situation with Trubisky. We don't have the draft capital to take a shot at another top prospect this year. Is there really a free agent QB out there who offers any better chance of success than Trubisky developing further? Do we really want Newton, Foles, Mariotta or Winston even if they do become available? Is that really going to solve the never-ending QB conundrum? Do we really want to spend big money on them? None of them are going to accept one year prove it deals.

Whatever changes we want to see, in order to convince others of their merit they have to have a) some degree of realism and b) a decent chance of actually making the team better. If members of this forum don't believe ideas meet these criteria then they'll give them short shrift.
Pretty much this. It's not that anyone really likes Massie or Leno. They're OK at best. I think a great many of us look at things from a stature of likelihood. While shit yeah, I'd be excited as hell if the Bears followed through with your plans and went o-line all day and all night, it's more of setting expectations.

We're a heartbroken bunch, man. Our planning to not get overly excited or bold with our predictions is rare because, well, the team lets us down pretty routinely. Maybe we're just not at the point of fan experience some of you are at, 30-50 years along, where you're done playing things steady, because fuck steady! "Steady" doesn't win titles, and I respect that mentality.

I'm simply very protective of the team avoiding another teardown and rebuild, because in my eyes, the people that lead the team, whether I like them or not (I don't) aren't capable of handling that kind of change again with much grace and confidence.
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Re: Formerly a Wade Phillips thread, now "I Hate Chuck Pagano"

Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:08 pm

My overall opinion is that this team is set up for big changes in 2021 so this year is about

1. Giving what we got one last chance
2. Setting the table for a minor overhaul of needed. That could included lots of guys getting fired and a big move up to draft a QB.

There will also be some changes on D personnel that might result in a better fit for what pagano wants to do. We’re looking at probably 3 new starters next season and they might btw be less talented because any big moves this offseason are gonna be about fixing the offense.
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Re: Formerly a Wade Phillips thread, now "I Hate Chuck Pagano"

Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:52 am



Really detailed podcast of Da Bears entire defense, last season; what each player contributed to the unit where they faltered; who should stay or go and what it can do to improve, just to name a few of the covered subjects.
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Re: Formerly a Wade Phillips thread, now "I Hate Chuck Pagano"

Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:58 pm

Will DeWitt = Kyle Orton
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 5 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.

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