Formerly a Wade Phillips thread, now "I Hate Chuck Pagano"

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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:48 pm

How people on this board can consider a #9 ranked defense, with all the injuries we had, as mediocre, is beyond me. The first year Fangio was here, our defense sucked. In 2016 our defense sucked. It was ranked 24th in points allowed. Under Fangio. Yet he has a generational year last year, and people forget the bad years. I'm not saying Fangio is a bad DC. What I'm saying is, this is year one in Pagano's defense. Give it a chance.
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:52 pm

Fangio had an old, shitty roster that was in process of being turned over. It's not close to being handed the keys of a fine tuned machine like Pagano got.

Our defense ranked behind the Jets and Chargers. The Chargers lost Derwin James for the season too. As crazy as you all think I am, is as flabbergasted as I am that you guys can't see this. But, time to move on from it. Give it another year or two and you all will come around. Pagano is soft.
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 5 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:08 pm

I seriously think you have your coaches mixed up. Fangio plays a soft bend but don't break defense, normally rushing 4 and keeping 2 safeties deep. Pagano is known to be more of a blitzer and is more aggressive. Here is an article from last year that talks about how little Fangio blitzes (as you will see it is about half of the league average).

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/th ... arterback/

The big difference I see is who is rushing. Fangio would mix up the personnel, maybe sending two LBs, two lineman, and drop a lineman into a zone. Pagano normally rushes all three lineman and one of the OLBs when he does not blitz. Fangio does a much better job of disguising who is rushing, but Pagano is definitely more aggressive. Same thing with the CBs, Fangio played a lot of off man, letting Fuller and Amukamara read and react to the play. Pagano plays more tight man with the CBs bumping WRs at the line of scrimmage. My one huge gripe with Fangio was playing the CBs 7 yards off the line when it was 3rd and short....teams used to eat us alive on 3rd downs with a quick slant. Pagano does a better job of taking that away with the tight man coverage.
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:57 pm

dplank wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:37 pm
Why do people keep bringing up the turnover numbers when it's been said a dozen times that regression was expected? Forget about the turnovers, rush defense and sacks tell the tale. We went back mightily on both.

And, I happen to be the head of a company, for the third time now. If I hired someone to run my sales group and in the first year we saw 40% less sales then the year before, yea, I'd fire them. If you settle for average you'll get average at best.
You may be the most consistently wrong person we've had in here in a while. In 2018 the Bears were 1st in points and 3rd in yards. In 2019 the Bears were 4th in points and 8th in yards.

Yes, the run defense dropped from 1st to 9th , but they were the #1 ranked run defense when Hicks went out. Splash plays like sacks and interceptions also dropped, but I can't help you if your anecdotal "eyeball test" tells you those numbers equate to average or Pagano being "TERRIBLE".
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:13 pm

Well, I disagree, but I don't want to become the board "Gibron" so best to leave it be...
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 5 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:06 pm

Perhaps taking into account the opposition this year as opposed to last year might convince you?

2018

Opponent's average offensive ranking: 18.4

Opponent's with top 16 offenses: 6
Opponent's with bottom 16 offenses: 10

Opponent's with top 10 offenses: 3
Opponent's with bottom 10 offenses: 6

2019

Opponent's average offensive ranking: 15.1

Opponent's with top 16 offenses: 9
Opponent's with bottom 16 offenses: 7

Opponent's with top 10 offenses: 5
Opponent's with bottom 10 offenses: 3

In short, the Bears faced better offenses this year under Pagano than they did last year under Fangio. That alone would account for some of the decline in numbers and rankings.

I think it is ridiculous to be discussing jettisoning Pagano after one season because there was some degree of drop off whilst playing against better offenses and with a considerably worse one than in 2018.
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:09 pm

dplank wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:13 pm
Well, I disagree, but I don't want to become the board "Gibron" so best to leave it be...
2019 Chicago Bears League Rankings:

Yards/game - 8th
Passing yards/game - 9th
Rushing yards/game - 9th
Points/game - 4th
Takeaways - 22nd

2018 Chicago Bears League Rankings:

Yards/game - 3rd
Passing yards/game - 7th
Rushing yards/game - 1st
Points/game - 1st
Takeaways - 1st

So, yeah, I agree there was regression there. But I can't sit here and tell you Pagano didn't do a solid job this season, man. Our D was banged up and we still only gave up 0.9 more points per game than last season.
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:48 pm

G08 wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:09 pm
dplank wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:13 pm
Well, I disagree, but I don't want to become the board "Gibron" so best to leave it be...
2019 Chicago Bears League Rankings:

Yards/game - 8th
Passing yards/game - 9th
Rushing yards/game - 9th
Points/game - 4th
Takeaways - 22nd

2018 Chicago Bears League Rankings:

Yards/game - 3rd
Passing yards/game - 7th
Rushing yards/game - 1st
Points/game - 1st
Takeaways - 1st

So, yeah, I agree there was regression there. But I can't sit here and tell you Pagano didn't do a solid job this season, man. Our D was banged up and we still only gave up 0.9 more points per game than last season.
You left out sacks: We dropped from 3rd to 24th in the league. A massive drop off (but Pagano is more aggressive ha!) Blitzing corners a lot isn't aggressive so much as it's stupid. Or here's a good one that points to his soft coverage, opponent comp%: We dropped from 3rd to 18th!

There was regression across the board in every meaningful statistic. In some cases major dropoffs, like sacks and turnovers (which go hand in hand). We had injuries last year too, Callahan went to IR, Mack missed a month, Floyd had a broken hand, etc. Sure, we were healthier in 2018 than 2019, but cmon man...this is too big a drop for it to all be on that, Pagano has something to do with it.
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 5 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:25 am

wab wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:57 pm
dplank wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:37 pm
Why do people keep bringing up the turnover numbers when it's been said a dozen times that regression was expected? Forget about the turnovers, rush defense and sacks tell the tale. We went back mightily on both.

And, I happen to be the head of a company, for the third time now. If I hired someone to run my sales group and in the first year we saw 40% less sales then the year before, yea, I'd fire them. If you settle for average you'll get average at best.
You may be the most consistently wrong person we've had in here in a while. In 2018 the Bears were 1st in points and 3rd in yards. In 2019 the Bears were 4th in points and 8th in yards.

Yes, the run defense dropped from 1st to 9th , but they were the #1 ranked run defense when Hicks went out. Splash plays like sacks and interceptions also dropped, but I can't help you if your anecdotal "eyeball test" tells you those numbers equate to average or Pagano being "TERRIBLE".
Hopefully you have more luck with this than I did.
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:02 am

The bottom line is keeping the other team out of the end zone and the Bears were 4th best at that despite falling to 8th in YPG. There was an offense which average 16.6 points per game and didn't see the end zone in the first half in 5 games. Yes, the defense needs new blood at certain positions but if you can't outscore your opponent holding them to 18.6 points per game, there are major issues elsewhere also.
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:04 am

dplank wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:48 pm
G08 wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:09 pm


2019 Chicago Bears League Rankings:

Yards/game - 8th
Passing yards/game - 9th
Rushing yards/game - 9th
Points/game - 4th
Takeaways - 22nd

2018 Chicago Bears League Rankings:

Yards/game - 3rd
Passing yards/game - 7th
Rushing yards/game - 1st
Points/game - 1st
Takeaways - 1st

So, yeah, I agree there was regression there. But I can't sit here and tell you Pagano didn't do a solid job this season, man. Our D was banged up and we still only gave up 0.9 more points per game than last season.
You left out sacks: We dropped from 3rd to 24th in the league. A massive drop off (but Pagano is more aggressive ha!) Blitzing corners a lot isn't aggressive so much as it's stupid. Or here's a good one that points to his soft coverage, opponent comp%: We dropped from 3rd to 18th!

There was regression across the board in every meaningful statistic. In some cases major dropoffs, like sacks and turnovers (which go hand in hand). We had injuries last year too, Callahan went to IR, Mack missed a month, Floyd had a broken hand, etc. Sure, we were healthier in 2018 than 2019, but cmon man...this is too big a drop for it to all be on that, Pagano has something to do with it.
OK. I'm just going to throw my hat in the ring for shits and giggles.

What about adjustments? The NFL is a league of adjusting to what other teams are doing to you. It was well known this season that, against the Bears, you had to have the ball out in 2 seconds or less, or you deserved what you got. Look at the way teams attacked us early on. Quick passes. Screens. Slants. Etc. They weren't going to give our pass rush the time to get to the QB, and it also exposed Fuller's off coverage style. That also has a profound effect on the CB's ability to create interceptions. Or the S to get over into a position to make a play. Once Hicks went down, The Bears were really at a disadvantage with their pass rush, as there was no push up the middle.

I'm sorry. But Pagano is not terrible, and I am genuinely excited to see what he has planned for year two, with a healthy roster.
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:37 am

I'm not the one who's happy with a rush defense that ranks behind the Jets and Chargers, and with sack numbers near the bottom of the league. All you can point to is PPG, but there's a lot of other factors that go into that number - it's deceiving. Particularly in this case. It's a surface stat. And even still you're cherry picking that one, as the ultimate surface stat is "overall defense", which we were 8th or 9th depending on how you view it. I'll say again, there's only 32 teams. That means each time you move up or down in a ranking, it's a 3.1% +/-. So going from 1st in overall defense, to 9th, is -24.8% drop from 2018 to 2019!

Pointing out the surface items (offense sucks, PPG didn't go back too bad on D, etc) is easy, seeing what's underneath requires a little more insight and a willingness to look critically. Take David Montgomery for example. Look at the surface stats (yards, ypc) and he had a disappointing rookie year, but look beyond that and you know he had a really good rookie year given the shit blocking he had, and his incredible balance/power/will to break tackles he showed. I'm extremely excited about Monty's future, despite poor surface stats. You gotta look at defense the same way, glossing over it with a simple PPG view doesn't tell the story.

BTW, you don't know me, but I'm typically a very positive, almost homerish level Bears fan. I'm not one to just shit on all things Bears (although this season really challenged me in that regard). I backed Cutler his entire tenure, to a fault. I thought we were going to the super bowl this year, I had a mile high chubby for Nagy heading into this season. But here's what I see, maybe laying it out this way will help you all understand:

% increase/decrease in rankings from 2018 to 2019

Overall Defense: DOWN 24.8%
PPG: DOWN 9.3%
YPG: DOWN 15.5%
Rush Yds/game: DOWN 18.6%
Pass Yds/game: DOWN 6.2%
Sacks: DOWN 65.1%
Turnovers: DOWN 65.1%

That is, literally, across the board regression in every defensive statistical category - every one, not just turnovers. In some cases massive regression, just as I said.

I do concede it was only year 1 of his defense and it should improve in year 2. But outside of 1 year in Baltimore, which was over a decade ago, PLEASE SHOW ME WHEN CHUCK PAGANO HAS HAD AN ELITE DEFENSE ANYWHERE??? His defenses in Indy were SOFT, why is it a surprise that ours became soft? His defensive rankings from 2012-2017 in Indy were: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th. Were you guys aware of this? Where does the confidence in Pagano come from? PAGANO IS, AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN, TERRIBLE.
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 5 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:32 am

dplank wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:48 pm
You left out sacks: We dropped from 3rd to 24th in the league.
I just have one question for you. Which is the more important defensive statistic - points allowed, or sacks?
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:41 am

wab wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:32 am
dplank wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:48 pm
You left out sacks: We dropped from 3rd to 24th in the league.
I just have one question for you. Which is the more important defensive statistic - points allowed, or sacks?
I'd be more interested in pressures in 2019 vs 2018. I feel the Bears pass rush, sacks aside, had little to no pressure with any consistency.
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:49 am

wab wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:32 am
dplank wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:48 pm
You left out sacks: We dropped from 3rd to 24th in the league.
I just have one question for you. Which is the more important defensive statistic - points allowed, or sacks?
Points obviously, but looking at just points masks the truth because so many other variables contribute to that number. Like looking at David Montgomery's year only from the lens of YPC, it's deceiving.

I answered your question, how about you answer mine now:

Care to address Pagano's 5 year run in Indy? 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th. Why do you have faith in this guy?
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 5 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:06 am

I have no idea why it is so hard for some to understand that the shit show on offense negatively impacted the defense. Its a Festivus Miracle that the defense wasn't totally in the crapper.
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:26 am

UOK wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:41 am
wab wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:32 am


I just have one question for you. Which is the more important defensive statistic - points allowed, or sacks?
I'd be more interested in pressures in 2019 vs 2018. I feel the Bears pass rush, sacks aside, had little to no pressure with any consistency.
I can help with that UOK...

2018

Hurries: 93 (3rd)
Hurries %: 13.5% (8th)

Knock Downs: 41 (19th)
Knock Down %: 6.7% (22nd)

Sacks: 50 (3rd)

Total Pressures: 184 (2nd)
Total Pressure %: 26.7% (12th)

2019

Hurries: 80 (5th)
Hurries %: 12.9% (4th)

Knock Downs: 45 (15th)
Knock Down %: 7.9% (14th)

Sacks: 32 (24th)

Total Pressures: 157 (7th)
Total Pressure %: 25.3% (7th)

So, although the numbers for hurries and overall pressures were down, in terms of percentages they actually ranked higher than last year. The big drop off was with sacks, which shows that the defense failed to finish as often when they got close to the QB. There are a number of factors that may explain this including teams getting the ball out more quickly, the loss of Hicks and the fact that the Bears simply played better offenses than they did the year before.

This last point should not be overlooked.
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:59 am

Very nice work. Where did you get the data?

Hicks was a big factor because he collapses the pocket and forces the QB from stepping up so the outside guys can finish. Also hurt that Nichols played one-handed for several games while gimping on a knee. He didn't look healthy until the end. Williams did well as a rusher, but he tapered off somewhat. Goldman wasn't as active on pass rushing without the constant menace of Hicks next door demanding more slide protection.
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:33 pm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... 19/opp.htm

I had to work out the rankings manually after sorting.
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:40 pm

Looking at ranking only is a mistake, you totally take out the element of other teams' defenses improving.

Also, looking at Pagano's defenses is Indy is not exactly a fair comparison either. Indy was not exactly known for spending much draft capital or free agency dollars on the defense. They rode Payton Manning's offense for years prior to Pagano, then Luck after. Indy had an elite offense for so long they did not care much about the D.
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:45 pm

HisRoyalSweetness wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:33 pm
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... 19/opp.htm

I had to work out the rankings manually after sorting.
Again, thanks!

Your posts have been interesting.
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:53 pm

So let's see...I'm not allowed to note that we regressed in every statistical category across the board in one year when the only major roster change was DC. I'm not allowed to note that half of our defensive players regressed bigtime in his first year. And I'm not allowed to note that he has an extensive, 5 year history of shitty defenses to his credit before coming here (4 of 5 years in the bottom 7 of the league). Anything else? I guess he's just a Bill Belichick defensive genius in disguise and I have to take your guys word for it. I'm sure it'll reveal itself next year.

....and I'm the crazy one??? You guys need an influx of honesty and tough love around here...he took a Ferarri and turned it into a Camry, and you're celebrating that he managed to out race a fucking Datsun.
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 5 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:13 pm

dplank wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:49 am
wab wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:32 am


I just have one question for you. Which is the more important defensive statistic - points allowed, or sacks?
Points obviously, but looking at just points masks the truth because so many other variables contribute to that number. Like looking at David Montgomery's year only from the lens of YPC, it's deceiving.

I answered your question, how about you answer mine now:

Care to address Pagano's 5 year run in Indy? 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th. Why do you have faith in this guy?
It's not deceiving. Games are decided by the amount of points scored, not the amount of sacks.

Sorry man, I just don't look at things in a vacuum. You also have to throw out 2012 because that was Arians' team for all but a few games. Because, you know...cancer.

Have you looked at the talent level on those Indy defenses? That team was built around the offense and Andrew Luck. A defense filled with mostly bad players is going to be a bad defense. 2014 was the year that they weren't besieged with injuries.

Oh, and Ryan Grigson was a huge help in correcting that talent gap between the offense and the defense.
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:32 pm

Thanks for the research!

I wonder what to make of the increased pressure/hurry rates and the dropoff in sack rate. Are there larger trends with those stats for teams who have more schemed blitzes (like 2019 Bears) verse those who play more straight up (like 2018 Bears)? Do pressure/hurry rates stabilize/predict better or worse than sack rates?
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:41 pm

wab wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:13 pm
dplank wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:49 am


Points obviously, but looking at just points masks the truth because so many other variables contribute to that number. Like looking at David Montgomery's year only from the lens of YPC, it's deceiving.

I answered your question, how about you answer mine now:

Care to address Pagano's 5 year run in Indy? 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th. Why do you have faith in this guy?
It's not deceiving. Games are decided by the amount of points scored, not the amount of sacks.

Sorry man, I just don't look at things in a vacuum. You also have to throw out 2012 because that was Arians' team for all but a few games. Because, you know...cancer.

Have you looked at the talent level on those Indy defenses? That team was built around the offense and Andrew Luck. A defense filled with mostly bad players is going to be a bad defense. 2014 was the year that they weren't besieged with injuries.

Oh, and Ryan Grigson was a huge help in correcting that talent gap between the offense and the defense.
SMH...you need an awful lot of excuses to maintain your position with this guy. Whatever though, it's your choice if you want to ignore all the signs here. But don't act like I'm nuts, I'm not the one who has to make excuse after excuse for why things seem to go wrong around him wherever he goes. If you end up right, it will be in spite of the facts available at the moment. For the Bears sake, I hope that's the case.
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 5 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:48 pm

Doing some of my own digging:

Pretty I interesting (short) write up of the importance, or lack thereof of Sacks, and there variability:
https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/201 ... e-rate-pff

PFF article which is a little more bullish on the importance of Sacks, but basically says pressure rates are a better predictor of future sacks:
https://www.pff.com/news/pro-just-how-i ... -a-defense

2018 only data here. Looks at number of rushers. Will have to be on the lookout for an update with 2019 numbers and see how the Bears fared comparatively on blitz schemes. Would also be very interesting to look for larger trends across teams.
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat- ... shers-2018
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:56 pm

dplank wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:41 pm
wab wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:13 pm

It's not deceiving. Games are decided by the amount of points scored, not the amount of sacks.

Sorry man, I just don't look at things in a vacuum. You also have to throw out 2012 because that was Arians' team for all but a few games. Because, you know...cancer.

Have you looked at the talent level on those Indy defenses? That team was built around the offense and Andrew Luck. A defense filled with mostly bad players is going to be a bad defense. 2014 was the year that they weren't besieged with injuries.

Oh, and Ryan Grigson was a huge help in correcting that talent gap between the offense and the defense.
SMH...you need an awful lot of excuses to maintain your position with this guy. Whatever though, it's your choice if you want to ignore all the signs here. But don't act like I'm nuts, I'm not the one who has to make excuse after excuse for why things seem to go wrong around him wherever he goes. If you end up right, it will be in spite of the facts available at the moment. For the Bears sake, I hope that's the case.
Football fans like to call them "excuses" when the actual term is "reasons".

If he had personnel control over those teams to the extent he was influencing draft picks (most of them on offense) and roster decisions, then the makeup of that defense is 100% on him. I don't know, because I don't care enough to look it up...but I'm pretty sure he inherited a team built around the QB and was asked to keep the defense at least passable. Which he did...to the tune of a divisional game and an AFC championship game (again, throwing out his first year, which also resulted in the playoffs).

You don't show up to a race against a sports car and expect to win when you are handed the keys to a 75 Wagoneer with two flat tires.

Look, I'm a fan of irrational and skewed hatred for a player or coach. I'm guilty of it myself. But at least I admit it.
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The Marshall Plan
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:26 pm

dplank wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:53 pm
So let's see...I'm not allowed to note that we regressed in every statistical category across the board in one year when the only major roster change was DC. I'm not allowed to note that half of our defensive players regressed bigtime in his first year. And I'm not allowed to note that he has an extensive, 5 year history of shitty defenses to his credit before coming here (4 of 5 years in the bottom 7 of the league). Anything else? I guess he's just a Bill Belichick defensive genius in disguise and I have to take your guys word for it. I'm sure it'll reveal itself next year.

....and I'm the crazy one??? You guys need an influx of honesty and tough love around here...he took a Ferarri and turned it into a Camry, and you're celebrating that he managed to out race a fucking Datsun.
Are you deliberately ignoring the impact the offense had on the defense or did I miss something?
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:30 pm

dplank wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:53 pm
So let's see...I'm not allowed to note that we regressed in every statistical category across the board in one year when the only major roster change was DC. I'm not allowed to note that half of our defensive players regressed bigtime in his first year. And I'm not allowed to note that he has an extensive, 5 year history of shitty defenses to his credit before coming here (4 of 5 years in the bottom 7 of the league). Anything else? I guess he's just a Bill Belichick defensive genius in disguise and I have to take your guys word for it. I'm sure it'll reveal itself next year.

....and I'm the crazy one??? You guys need an influx of honesty and tough love around here...he took a Ferarri and turned it into a Camry, and you're celebrating that he managed to out race a fucking Datsun.
Most people look at the stats, not rankings. The Bears dropped from 50 sacks to 32, that is a 36% decrease, not 65%. I am not saying Pangano is as good a Fangio, because he is not. I also think Fangio is a shitty head coach and will probably be back as a DC in a couple years, so maybe we can bring him back then.

Also, Pagano was DC of an elite Baltimore D in 2011. That D was 3rd in points and yards, 2nd in rush yards add 4th in pass yards.
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HisRoyalSweetness
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Re: Wade Phillips done in LA - Bears should find a way to get him here

Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:58 pm

I'm genuinely curious why you think Fangio is a bad head coach when he's only one season into his first head coaching job.

He got off to a rough 0 - 4 start, with a couple of very close games against the Bears and Jaguars, and then proceeded to go 7 - 5 the rest of the way with 4 of those defeats coming against playoff teams (Chiefs twice, Bills and Vikings). In other words, the Broncos improved over the course of the season.

Fangio wasn't helped by the quarterback situation in Denver. Once he got rookie 2nd round pick Drew Lock back from a preseason injury Fangio won 4 out of his last 5, including a comprehensive victory against the Texans in Houston. The Broncos look like they could be a team on the upswing under Fangio.

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