Release / Trade Candidates

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Release / Trade Candidates

Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:50 am

Not advocating that we should cut or trade these guys, but these are the cap numbers should we decide to do so:
Charles Leno: cut or trade, we save 2,918,000 and carry 7,376,000 in dead cap
Prince Amukamara: cut or trade, we save 9,000,000 and carry 1,000,000 in dead cap
Trey Burton: post 6/1 cut or trade, we save 5,050,000 and carry 3,500,000 in dead cap
Bobby Massie: post 6/1 cut or trade, we save 4,400,000 and carry 3,900,000 in dead cap
Taylor Gabriel: cut or trade, we save 4,500,000 and carry 2,000,000 in dead cap
Cordarrelle Patterson: cut or trade, we save 4,750,000 and carry 1,000,000 in dead cap
Adam Shaheen: cut or trade, we save 1,270,982 and carry 609,644 in dead cap

Total cap savings for the whole lot: 31,888,982
Without any cuts, we currently have an estimated cap space of: 14,918,179
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Re: Release / Trade Candidates

Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:39 am

Amukamara is almost certainly going to be cut. The only way he's not cut is if Fuller is somehow involved in a trade. I don't believe that myself, but I think Hoge posited that it's a possibility.

Shaheen will probably be cut as well, but not as soon as people would like. Kind of depends on FA and the draft.

Burton is another possible cut, but less likely.

Massie is possible if the Bears go the dplank route and get very aggressive with acquiring a marquee tackle.

Leno I have my doubts about, as that is a shitload of dead cap.

Gabriel probably won't be back and that money isn't a terribly big deal.

Patterson's gonna be here at least another year.

---

The Bears are very creative about turning salary cap into signing bonuses, opening up some money every offseason. So these numbers will get some breathing room over the next month or so.
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The Cooler King
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Re: Release / Trade Candidates

Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:44 am

In addition to those cut candidates, Allen Robinson is a fairly obvious extension candidate IMO. Can shave at least a few million in cap with a new deal.

One caveat to your numbers is that if they don't agree to a new CBA before March, this year will be a final year of the CBA and there won't be post June cuts. I'm fairly bullish on a deal getting done, but if it gets derailed it will be because of this 17 game issue, i think.
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Re: Release / Trade Candidates

Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:56 am

I think you should add Floyd and his 13M in this discussion, not advocating one way or another but he's a big cap decision.
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Re: Release / Trade Candidates

Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:06 am

dplank wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:56 am
I think you should add Floyd and his 13M in this discussion, not advocating one way or another but he's a big cap decision.
I thought about that as well, but you gotta think they won't pick up that option at that money. That kind of cap hit is crippling.
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Re: Release / Trade Candidates

Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:14 am

Out of those - Amukamara, Gabriel, and Shaheen are almost certain. Floyd will either be extended or traded. I can’t see them rescinding the 5th year option.

Skrine and Braunecker are other options.

I can’t see them eating all that dead cap on the OTs and Burton. And releasing Patterson after a pro bowl season seems... odd.
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Re: Release / Trade Candidates

Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:17 am

The cap is likely to go up once they make a CBA deal.
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Re: Release / Trade Candidates

Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:57 pm

I see Floyd, prince and Gabriel as most likely to be gone due to cap concerns.
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Re: Release / Trade Candidates

Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:31 pm

southdakbearfan wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:57 pm
I see Floyd, prince and Gabriel as most likely to be gone due to cap concerns.
Floyd amd Amukamara could both conceivably be back on smaller deals. Gabriel less so.
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Re: Release / Trade Candidates

Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:03 pm

The Cooler King wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:31 pm
southdakbearfan wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:57 pm
I see Floyd, prince and Gabriel as most likely to be gone due to cap concerns.
Floyd amd Amukamara could both conceivably be back on smaller deals. Gabriel less so.
Maybe. I think someone will throw money at Floyd. Prince I could see easier but he’s a solid corner. Those typically aren’t cheap.
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Re: Release / Trade Candidates

Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:10 pm

GOODBYE FLOYD!

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Re: Release / Trade Candidates

Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:47 pm

So what exactly are the rules of the 5th year option?

I know it's fully guaranteed once the league year starts but are there any trade or extension rules? I just don't see how it doesn't wind up a straight up release unless he plays for 50 percent or less the 5th year option value given the cap situation and his production level.
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Re: Release / Trade Candidates

Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:18 am

It's worth adding to the discussion that a comp pick would surely be in play if Floyd went to another team, a decent one I'd think considering his draft position and likely salary from the new team. So would adding a 3rd or 4th round comp pick move the needle for anyone on this discussion?
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Re: Release / Trade Candidates

Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:36 am

southdakbearfan wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:47 pm
So what exactly are the rules of the 5th year option?

I know it's fully guaranteed once the league year starts but are there any trade or extension rules? I just don't see how it doesn't wind up a straight up release unless he plays for 50 percent or less the 5th year option value given the cap situation and his production level.
Length: Contracts for drafted rookies are set at four years. Undrafted rookies receive three-year contracts.

Fifth-year option: Each player selected in the first round of the NFL draft has a team option for a fifth season automatically included in his contract, which extends the four-year rookie contract to a fifth season.

The salary for the fifth-year option is broken into two-tiers. The top 10 picks of the draft receive an average of the top 10 prior-year salaries at his position. Picks 11-32 receive the average of the 3rd-25th prior-year salaries at his position.

Teams must exercise this option in the time after the conclusion of the player's third regular season and prior to May 3 of the following League Year. When exercised, the option is guaranteed for injury only. If the player remains on the roster at the start of the League Year of his option season, it becomes fully guaranteed (skill, cap and injury).

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... ed-to-know
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Re: Release / Trade Candidates

Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:56 am

dplank wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:18 am
It's worth adding to the discussion that a comp pick would surely be in play if Floyd went to another team, a decent one I'd think considering his draft position and likely salary from the new team. So would adding a 3rd or 4th round comp pick move the needle for anyone on this discussion?
I don't belive it would. He'd be released and released players don't factor in to the formula.
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Re: Release / Trade Candidates

Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:02 pm

dplank wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:18 am
It's worth adding to the discussion that a comp pick would surely be in play if Floyd went to another team, a decent one I'd think considering his draft position and likely salary from the new team. So would adding a 3rd or 4th round comp pick move the needle for anyone on this discussion?
I’d trade Leonard Floyd for a gift card to the Olive Garden. If we somehow got a comp pick out of releasing him I’d run away cackling like a madman.
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Re: Release / Trade Candidates

Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:07 pm

Comp picks don't count if the player is released. I don't know if there is any grey area when it comes to rescinding an option, but I doubt it.

I'm kind of starting to be ok with shopping Floyd.
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Re: Release / Trade Candidates

Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:21 pm

wab wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:07 pm
Comp picks don't count if the player is released. I don't know if there is any grey area when it comes to rescinding an option, but I doubt it.

I'm kind of starting to be ok with shopping Floyd.
Not sure how the logistics of that would work. Presumably a team trading for him wants an extension, but I don't know if there's a period of time where he could legally discuss an extension and pull off a trade before the guarantee kicks in and once that guarantee hits the leverage totally changes.
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Re: Release / Trade Candidates

Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:29 pm

The Cooler King wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:21 pm
wab wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:07 pm
Comp picks don't count if the player is released. I don't know if there is any grey area when it comes to rescinding an option, but I doubt it.

I'm kind of starting to be ok with shopping Floyd.
Not sure how the logistics of that would work. Presumably a team trading for him wants an extension, but I don't know if there's a period of time where he could legally discuss an extension and pull off a trade before the guarantee kicks in and once that guarantee hits the leverage totally changes.
I think if the team gives Floyd permission to explore a trade, salary negotiations become a part of that. But yeah, it's a pretty short window.
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Re: Release / Trade Candidates

Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:31 pm

I found this:
In order to qualify for the comp equation, a player must have been a true Unrestricted Free Agent whose contract had expired or was voided after the previous season (i.e., he cannot have been released by his old team); he must sign during the UFA signing period (which ended July 27 last year); if he signs after June 1[*], he must have been tendered a June 1 qualifying offer by his old team; his compensatory value or contract value must be above a specific minimum amount; and he cannot have been permanently released by his new team before a certain point in the season (which seems to be after Week 10) or, possibly, before getting a certain amount of playing time, unless he was claimed off waivers by another team.
So if we rescind his 5th year option, that makes him a UFA. And his contract would have been voided after the 2019 season. So assuming he signed before July, I think he'd qualify. I dunno, it's a little confusing.
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Re: Release / Trade Candidates

Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:45 pm

There are some very cap rich teams and the Bears will lose bidding wars for anyone extremely desirable (my guy would be Scherff). Just pointing this out. Anyone who goes into FA should be expecting to get paid a huge premium to go to Miami or Indy.

Shaheen is the only guy I want cut because he's bad. Patterson is a luxury but they seem to love him. Gabriel is the only one they should be able to replace relatively easily. Floyd is not worth $13m and per the Miami argument above, I don't see how the Bears will retain him after they waive him. A trade would be great but the Bears have little leverage so I wouldn't expect much. You'd like to have better OTs but the dead money is substantial and it'd be tough to replace them. Burton has played like 8 good games for this team but I can't see waiving both starting TEs and carrying $4m dead money in a position where $4m in salary for your whole group would be average.

So I'm saying:
- Bye Adam :flick:
- Sorry Taylor
- Sorry Prince
- Will someone give us a mid-rounder for Leonard? No? Fifth round maybe?? :frustrated:
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Re: Release / Trade Candidates

Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:46 pm

dplank wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:31 pm
I found this:
In order to qualify for the comp equation, a player must have been a true Unrestricted Free Agent whose contract had expired or was voided after the previous season (i.e., he cannot have been released by his old team); he must sign during the UFA signing period (which ended July 27 last year); if he signs after June 1[*], he must have been tendered a June 1 qualifying offer by his old team; his compensatory value or contract value must be above a specific minimum amount; and he cannot have been permanently released by his new team before a certain point in the season (which seems to be after Week 10) or, possibly, before getting a certain amount of playing time, unless he was claimed off waivers by another team.
So if we rescind his 5th year option, that makes him a UFA. And his contract would have been voided after the 2019 season. So assuming he signed before July, I think he'd qualify. I dunno, it's a little confusing.
I don't know that there is a technical/legal mechanism that is "rescinding" an option. Their option is to release him, which they could since it's not guaranteed.

The choice would have been to decline the option last year, and he'd be a UFA and counted towards the formula. They obviously felt he was worth the bet, but he didn't breakout.
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Re: Release / Trade Candidates

Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:51 pm

There’s a date deadline that teams have to rescind the option.
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Re: Release / Trade Candidates

Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:48 pm

wab wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:51 pm
There’s a date deadline that teams have to rescind the option.
There's nothing in the collective bargaining text about rescinding a 5th year option. The term rescind isn't even ever used in the CBA.

There's just the date they can cut him by getting out of the guarantee. But they'd be releasing him, thus no draft comp credit.
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Re: Release / Trade Candidates

Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:19 pm

So they hosed the comp pick angle by picking up the fifth year option on a player most agreed would never get that 5th year option price tag paid to him due to cap. Brilliant.
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Re: Release / Trade Candidates

Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:16 am

southdakbearfan wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:19 pm
So they hosed the comp pick angle by picking up the fifth year option on a player most agreed would never get that 5th year option price tag paid to him due to cap. Brilliant.
I think everyone almost universally believed Floyd would get his 5th year option picked up.
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Re: Release / Trade Candidates

Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:22 am

They had no choice. Imagine if he got 10 sacks and then was a UFA? Folks would be screaming that we botched it and it cost us either a ton of money to keep him or we lose him for nothing but a comp pick. They made the right call IMO, Floyd just didn't deliver.
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Re: Release / Trade Candidates

Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:14 pm

The Cooler King wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:48 pm
wab wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:51 pm
There’s a date deadline that teams have to rescind the option.
There's nothing in the collective bargaining text about rescinding a 5th year option. The term rescind isn't even ever used in the CBA.

There's just the date they can cut him by getting out of the guarantee. But they'd be releasing him, thus no draft comp credit.
This is incorrect, teams can rescind the 5th year option and let a player walk and he would be eligible for a comp pick... per BradOTC on twitter, he's an overthecap.com guy who follows the Bears
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Re: Release / Trade Candidates

Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:17 pm

BamaBear09 wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:14 pm
The Cooler King wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:48 pm


There's nothing in the collective bargaining text about rescinding a 5th year option. The term rescind isn't even ever used in the CBA.

There's just the date they can cut him by getting out of the guarantee. But they'd be releasing him, thus no draft comp credit.
This is incorrect, teams can rescind the 5th year option and let a player walk and he would be eligible for a comp pick... per BradOTC on twitter, he's an overthecap.com guy who follows the Bears
This is what I thought, but I couldn't find anything validating it.
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Re: Release / Trade Candidates

Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:43 pm

dplank wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:22 am
They had no choice. Imagine if he got 10 sacks and then was a UFA? Folks would be screaming that we botched it and it cost us either a ton of money to keep him or we lose him for nothing but a comp pick. They made the right call IMO, Floyd just didn't deliver.
Then you transition tag him if he does break out for exactly the same salary as the fifth year option (which is what I believe the calculation is for picks 1-10) or he gets an offer you won’t match but that get you good draft picks.

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