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UOK wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:48 pm

The Cooler King wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:44 pm
Why include Trubisky? Carr is presumably moved because the have Brady, and yes, they'd need an heir apparent, but would probably much rather draft and develop their own guy. For the Bears, including him seems to be negative value.

I'd pass hard on that trade.

I'd include Trubisky only because keeping him around the roster would be a political nightmare. He wouldn't want to be there, knowing the team had to trade a ton of assets to replace him, and he would want a fresh start where he didn't have the expectations hanging over his head.

I think it's worth noting that Gruden was a huge Trubisky fan leading up to the draft.

Gruden, the analyst was a fan of every QB haha.

Almost no chance he'd pick Mitch to be his guy to groom. Maybe as a cheap flier as a backup when he hits FA.

wab wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:50 pm

UOK wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:48 pm

I'd include Trubisky only because keeping him around the roster would be a political nightmare. He wouldn't want to be there, knowing the team had to trade a ton of assets to replace him, and he would want a fresh start where he didn't have the expectations hanging over his head.

I think it's worth noting that Gruden was a huge Trubisky fan leading up to the draft.

Carr's production decreased once Chuckie got there. They still did more passing than running this past season, but I'll guess that was because they were behind more. It seems to me like Chucky's tendency is toward a power run offense. That would be Mitch-friendly, versus what Nagy wants to do.

I know this is all spit-balling. But how cool would it be to have Carr in Chicago in 2020 and Mitch backing up Brady in Vegas (and then replacing him as the starter in 2022). I'd be happy for him & cheer hard for him.

The Cooler King wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:19 pm Gruden, the analyst was a fan of every QB haha.

Almost no chance he'd pick Mitch to be his guy to groom. Maybe as a cheap flier as a backup when he hits FA.

And you can say this with certainty...how? Gruden is the guy that raved about Nathan Peterman as his potential future starting QB and is currently trying to develop DeShone Kizer.

But he'd have zero interest in grooming Trubisky?

IE wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:34 pm

wab wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:50 pm
I think it's worth noting that Gruden was a huge Trubisky fan leading up to the draft.

Carr's production decreased once Chuckie got there. They still did more passing than running this past season, but I'll guess that was because they were behind more. It seems to me like Chucky's tendency is toward a power run offense. That would be Mitch-friendly, versus what Nagy wants to do.

I know this is all spit-balling. But how cool would it be to have Carr in Chicago in 2020 and Mitch backing up Brady in Vegas (and then replacing him as the starter in 2022). I'd be happy for him & cheer hard for him.

Losing Mitch would be tough because I'm personally a fan of his, but I could be ok with acquiring Carr in exchange for him.

Some interesting scenarios here... .
https://dawindycity.com/2020/02/03/chic ... erek-carr/

wab wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:40 pm

The Cooler King wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:19 pm Gruden, the analyst was a fan of every QB haha.

Almost no chance he'd pick Mitch to be his guy to groom. Maybe as a cheap flier as a backup when he hits FA.

And you can say this with certainty...how? Gruden is the guy that raved about Nathan Peterman as his potential future starting QB and is currently trying to develop DeShone Kizer.

But he'd have zero interest in grooming Trubisky?

Again, Gruden raved about nearly every QB as an analyst. And the Kizer and Peterman signings are exactly in the wheelhouse of what I said, maybe picking him off the scrap heap as a backup. As THE GUY to groom though. I think he actually has better judgement than that.

wab wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:50 pm

UOK wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:48 pm

I'd include Trubisky only because keeping him around the roster would be a political nightmare. He wouldn't want to be there, knowing the team had to trade a ton of assets to replace him, and he would want a fresh start where he didn't have the expectations hanging over his head.

I think it's worth noting that Gruden was a huge Trubisky fan leading up to the draft.

Didn't Gruden the commentator love everybody though?

After hanging with and physically / mentally working out all 3 QBs for his pre-draft show, Gruden was asked which QB he would take:

Mahomes

That made an impression since he's coached a lot of good QBs.

I also don't believe he was completely candid about any reservations on those 3 because he didn't want to hurt their draft stock.

Drone7 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:35 pm After hanging with and physically / mentally working out all 3 QBs for his pre-draft show, Gruden was asked which QB he would take:

Mahomes

That made an impression since he's coached a lot of good QBs.

I also don't believe he was completely candid about any reservations on those 3 because he didn't want to hurt their draft stock.

To be fair, he also said Watson at one time too.

“I like Watson,” Gruden said when asked which of the quarterbacks he ranks higher. “I like a body of work – it stands for itself. Thirty-two wins, three losses, he’s played 15 games in back-to-back seasons, it’s unprecedented. Back-to-back championship games. He’s a dual threat. Unbelievable poise, and when the game’s on the line, ask Florida State what happens, ask Louisville, ask Alabama what this kid does, in the fourth quarter, game on the line, when Clemson needs to score. This guy is special. I just think his body of work puts him at the top.”

Carr is the only QB that I would be cool supplanting Mitch with. I think you have to trade Mitch at that point though.

Interesting timing for Carr to post that pic. I posted here way back in his rookie year about how I would like to see him with the Bears. High character guy who be a definite upgrade at QB with a chance to prove his worth in a new place. Sometimes, that turns guys' whole career around.

This would be outstanding, fingers crossed

Two things:

1. I think Carr would make the Bears an instant, serious contender.

2. Holy crap look at 52's arms next to a regular guy.

wab wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:47 pm Carr probably isn't going to command more than what various teams gave up for Alex Smith.

This Brady to the Raiders thing is weird and has little validity to me.

Super weird but I would love it

I guess the interesting question for us is: How much would you be willing to give up for Carr?

For reference, Alex Smith was traded from the Chiefs to the Redskins for Kendall Fuller and a 3rd round pick.

I'd give up one of our 2nd rounders for Carr. I'd LOVE a 4th + Trubisky deal so we could offset some of Carr's salary.

A quick web scan of the Raiders position needs list: WR, LB, DL...we have WR's to spare IMO, so maybe a 4th plus any WR not named Allen Robinson?

Other thoughts?

An even swap for Floyd would be nice.

I'd also give the Raiders their 2nd rounder back for Carr.

Oh man, good call on Floyd, I'd be thrilled with that.

dplank wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:52 am Oh man, good call on Floyd, I'd be thrilled with that.

*~*~*~*~dReAm sEqUeNcE~*~*~*~*

BEARS GET

QB Derek Carr

----

RAIDERS GET

QB Mitchell Trubisky
LB Leonard Floyd
DC Chuck Pagano

Carr would be an upgrade over what Trubisky has shown as a pocket passer, but I would not surrender picks.

I've only seen him play a few times in the pros, so my opinion is not worth much. He played well most of those games except one--but he was getting pressured and his receivers were blanketed. Last year, I thought he played an excellent game against the Bears riding a good running game and TE play without competent WRs.

That said, one of the criticisms against him in college was not playing well in big games. Or cold weather (Jack Del Rio) And his pro winning % isn't good--obviously, surrounding cast is a big factor there, but his coaches seemed to suggest he could have played better. Not mobile, so he can't extend plays. And now it looks like the Raiders might be reluctant to keep a guy in his prime--sounds like Gruden isn't convinced of his prospects.

Anyway, I see him more as a bridge QB probably not capable of going deep in the playoffs esp if they surrender picks to get him. I disagree with those that believe the O is well-stocked just needing a QB, which they obviously do. See them as a well below average O that needs FA pickups and probably both 2s applied just to help whomever QB is in there. This O scares no one as currently configured.

I favor being patient and seeing what QBs come on the FA market, but not overpaying. Although I remain skeptical it will happen, make Trubisky compete in an honest competition with whomever.

As interesting as Carr would make things, realistically the Bears are probably going to go into next season with Mitch, Dalton, and a rookie.

wab wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 1:00 pm As interesting as Carr would make things, realistically the Bears are probably going to go into next season with Mitch, Dalton, and a rookie.

Can't wait until the "Bears sign Colt McCoy/Geno Smith" thread. I don't think Pace is gonna aim as high as some of you may think.

wab wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 1:00 pm As interesting as Carr would make things, realistically the Bears are probably going to go into next season with Mitch, Dalton, and a rookie.

That would be fine with me if they manage to get Dalton without surrendering those 2s. I think he's a better fit for this O being more mobile and knowing Lazor. Having seen Dalton play a lot more than Carr, I doubt Trubisky would beat him out in a fair competition--and that might need to be signaled for him to assent going to the Bears. Carr is a better natural passer than Dalton but I don't believe his decision-making and mobility are as good.

I like carrying 3 QBs, but they have shown no signs of wanting to carry 3 on the main roster. If they sign a mediocre starter like Dalton, I think they would apply the draft picks to positions other than QB, and look to win now, then revisit the QB situation in 2021. *edit - lets just stop with this sentence*

Carrying a rookie as the 3rd QB doesn't mean it has to be a draft pick, or make the final 53.

UOK wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 1:08 pm

wab wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 1:00 pm As interesting as Carr would make things, realistically the Bears are probably going to go into next season with Mitch, Dalton, and a rookie.

Can't wait until the "Bears sign Colt McCoy/Geno Smith" thread. I don't think Pace is gonna aim as high as some of you may think.

This is also a real possibility. AJ McCarron, Geno Smith, Trevor Siemian, Jeff Driskel, and Sean Mannion are all the tier 3 kinda guys with starting experience that they could target. And it wouldn't surprise me.

wab wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:49 pm Carrying a rookie as the 3rd QB doesn't mean it has to be a draft pick, or make the final 53.

Realize. While there are occasional Bradys and Romos, most late and UDFA QBs aren't worth much. If a guy makes the PS it means 31 other teams have scouted and don't see them as worthy of a roster spot.

Bears need to start bringing in some obvious talent instead of the Fales' and Enderle's of this world. That means higher picks, but the core problem of who's evaluating remains. Given the Personnel Dept's track record, I hope they involve the rebuilt coaching staff in the draft process, whenever

Carr has decent stats and is 28. He will bring more than a second rd pick.

Mitch, Floyd and a 2. I do that all day long.