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Charles Leno 2019 Breakdown

Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:25 pm
by cblaz11
Not sure if this was posted...great breakdown and reinforces my thoughts on Leno this season.


Re: Charles Leno 2019 Breakdown

Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:15 pm
by G08
*cough* @wab *cough*

Re: Charles Leno 2019 Breakdown

Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:59 pm
by Yogi da Bear
I like Leno. Always have. He's not an All Pro, but he's a perfectly serviceable LT. I think he gets a bad rap from many Bear fans.

Re: Charles Leno 2019 Breakdown

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:06 am
by The Cooler King
As the video covered, his play stabilized after week 5 stabilized. Those first 5 weeks were REALLY BAD though.

Re: Charles Leno 2019 Breakdown

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:17 am
by Richie
Yogi da Bear wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:59 pm
I like Leno. Always have. He's not an All Pro, but he's a perfectly serviceable LT. I think he gets a bad rap from many Bear fans.
He had gotten a lot of praise in 17 and 18. This year he invited a lot of criticism on himself. Particularly in September and October.

Re: Charles Leno 2019 Breakdown

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:01 am
by G08
The bull rushes are still of concern to me.

Re: Charles Leno 2019 Breakdown

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:21 am
by dplank
Leno's problem is that he's kind of a puss. Sort of like an NBA big man who likes to shoot 3's and can't compete down low. I wish he'd go full on Waterboy out there, but he just doesn't seem to have it in him. IMO you have to have a mean streak to play OL. When he got knocked on his ass by a safety on a RUNNING PLAY I was done with him.

Re: Charles Leno 2019 Breakdown

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:29 am
by Grizzled
If the opportunity comes up in the draft, the Bears need to snag an OT. If he beats out Massie or Leno, the depth will be welcome for the inevitable nicks and bruises those guys get.

Re: Charles Leno 2019 Breakdown

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:53 am
by cblaz11
dplank wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:21 am
Leno's problem is that he's kind of a puss. Sort of like an NBA big man who likes to shoot 3's and can't compete down low. I wish he'd go full on Waterboy out there, but he just doesn't seem to have it in him. IMO you have to have a mean streak to play OL. When he got knocked on his ass by a safety on a RUNNING PLAY I was done with him.
Marc Colombo had a nasty streak to him...

Re: Charles Leno 2019 Breakdown

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:55 am
by dplank
Yes, and I didn't say that all players with a nasty streak are good players. So........yea.

Re: Charles Leno 2019 Breakdown

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:10 am
by wab
G08 wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:15 pm
*cough* @wab *cough*
I'll never like him. And all this video did was make me start to hate Rashaad Coward too.

It also reinforces my belief that Leno would be an excellent guard vs an average LT.

Re: Charles Leno 2019 Breakdown

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:19 am
by dplank
wab...I'd love to see Leno play G. So, dead horse alert...but how about move Leno to G and instead of signing a guy like Thuney for 8-9M, we do the Trent Williams deal @ 12.5M and resign the much cheaper Lucas for the swing T role and let Coward leave? Considering that Long's 6M is off the books, we could do this and actually spend the exact same on our OL as we did in 2019, with a starting lineup of:

Trent WIlliams, Daniels, Whitehair, Leno, Massie

Draft a G somewhere, so our depth would be a draftee, Lucas, and maybe Larson.

Re: Charles Leno 2019 Breakdown

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:39 am
by wab
dplank wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:19 am
wab...I'd love to see Leno play G. So, dead horse alert...but how about move Leno to G and instead of signing a guy like Thuney for 8-9M, we do the Trent Williams deal @ 12.5M and resign the much cheaper Lucas for the swing T role and let Coward leave? Considering that Long's 6M is off the books, we could do this and actually spend the exact same on our OL as we did in 2019, with a starting lineup of:

Trent WIlliams, Daniels, Whitehair, Leno, Massie

Draft a G somewhere, so our depth would be a draftee, Lucas, and maybe Larson.
Really depends on what the Redskins want for a soon-to be 32yr old OT with injury issues who sat out a year. I don't want anything to do with Larsen. He's garb.

Williams, Daniels, Whitehair, Leno, Massie, Lucas, Levin, Rookie OT would be fine for 2020... again, depending on what Washington wants and Williams contract demands. Having said that, you realistically can't look at Williams as more than a 1-2 yr stopgap. Massie also needs replaced very soon, and Lucas is creeping up on 30 as well.

Re: Charles Leno 2019 Breakdown

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:49 pm
by IE
Doesn't Leno performing average in spite of his physical limitations makes him pretty much not a pussy - but actually the opposite of a pussy? He's punching above his weight class.

Anyway... I'm on board with move Leno to RG and get a FA LT. Sounds great! I have great reservations about drafting an OT in the 2nd or 4th and counting on him to even be a swing tackle. So instead they can keep Lucas and with Leno at RG there is also another emergency tackle in the mix. And then the Bears can draft a G/C to develop in the 5th or later. Smart.

Re: Charles Leno 2019 Breakdown

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:26 pm
by Drone7
Believe Leno played OT not guard at Boise St. With the Bears, during regular season only LT, with some struggles at RT in preseason experimentation. Said he was a lot more comfortable on the left side.

So why should we believe he can play RG well never having played there?

Re: Charles Leno 2019 Breakdown

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:03 pm
by wab
Drone7 wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:26 pm
Believe Leno played OT not guard at Boise St. With the Bears, during regular season only LT, with some struggles at RT in preseason experimentation. Said he was a lot more comfortable on the left side.

So why should we believe he can play RG well never having played there?
Because he has favorable skills for the position? And yes, he has taken snaps at guard. He was almost universally considered a guard in the pre0draft process, and some teams even worked him out at center.

He played RG and RT as a rookie in camp, and also in sub packages. Leno also took snaps at guard in 2015 when the team moved Long to RT, but kept him as the swing tackle and left the revolving door open at RG with Vlad Ducasse, Will Montgomery, and Patrick Omameh all playing RG at various times.

But no... he's never done it in an actual NFL game.

Re: Charles Leno 2019 Breakdown

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:29 pm
by dplank
Whitehair had never played C and managed to do that just fine. So it's not impossible to believe Leno could pull off a move, especially considering that G is the easier position to play. He wouldn't be the first player who couldn't cut it at T and found success at G.

I'm not a proponent of shuffling guys around in season, but off season moves and giving guys time to settle in to a solid front 5 makes sense to me.

It's also possible he just can't play G. I just desperately want a stud T on this team as I think it would have a major impact on our entire offense.

@IE ...good point. Anyone who has the drive to make it to the big leagues shouldn't be called a puss. I'm actually a bigger guy than Leno is by a hair, but never came close to his success so I should just shut it lol...

Re: Charles Leno 2019 Breakdown

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:37 pm
by wab
I mean realistically Charles Leno is going to be the Bears starting LT in 2020 and they are going to sign or draft an interior linemen and draft a developmental tackle just because it's easier to find a starting guard than a starting left tackle.

It's just my personal opinion that the weaknesses that expose him at times at tackle would be mitigated at guard. But the Bears need to have a much better option at LT to even entertain the possibility.

Re: Charles Leno 2019 Breakdown

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:46 pm
by Drone7
I don't want to get into back and forth about position changes, because sometimes position changes work out well, but a lot of projections don't work out. Brandin Hardin was projected from CB to S. And failed.

Moving to guard isn't as big a change, but it's still different. I realize some projected him at G in the pre-draft process even though he was an OT at Boise, but that was mostly just looking at his short stature, 6/3 and change and SPECULATING that he could make the move.

And he seems to be a guy that is more comfortable on the left side not the right. So if he were to play guard, LG would be more natural. But Daniels and Whitehair have more experience there.

I suspect he would be ok at pulling on traps but not strong enough dealing with big men on angle blocks or anchoring in PP. The action is more immediate at G and a player has to have strength at the POA. He's more of a technique/finesse blocker.

I just think they should seek a guy that has proven RG skills so they hit the ground running. No more projects like Coward or switching Leno late in his career.

Re: Charles Leno 2019 Breakdown

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:32 pm
by HisRoyalSweetness
It's worth noting that the guy Leno replaced, Jermon Bushrod, wound up playing the next couple of years at RG in Miami having played LT with both the Saints and Bears, but it's a real unknown projecting Leno to a new position.

Leno's been incredibly durable at LT. I don't believe he's missed a game ever since winning the starting job 5 years ago. In fact he's barely missed a snap. That counts for something.

He had a poor year last year. Early on he was getting called for a lot of penalties (8 through the first 5 games and he had a few late in the season (4 through the last 4 games). He only had one penalty during the middle portion of the season. Overall it was one of his worst seasons for penalties.

2015: 9 (5 accepted)
2016: 6 (5 accepted)
2017: 13 (13 accepted)
2018 : 7 (6 accepted, one offsetting)
2019: 13 (12 accepted)

I'm not convinced his play improved significantly over the course of the season. Watching the film, he was still getting beat far too often.

The year before though, he was a Pro Bowl alternate. He's never been and never will be a top LT and as a 7th round draft pick he was never expected to be. He's been a solid performer up until last season, so the question is whether that was just an aberration. Either way, if the finances allow he's the sort of guy you upgrade on if you can and run with if you can't.

Re: Charles Leno 2019 Breakdown

Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:53 pm
by Kylo Bearen
wab wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:39 am
dplank wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:19 am
wab...I'd love to see Leno play G. So, dead horse alert...but how about move Leno to G and instead of signing a guy like Thuney for 8-9M, we do the Trent Williams deal @ 12.5M and resign the much cheaper Lucas for the swing T role and let Coward leave? Considering that Long's 6M is off the books, we could do this and actually spend the exact same on our OL as we did in 2019, with a starting lineup of:

Trent WIlliams, Daniels, Whitehair, Leno, Massie

Draft a G somewhere, so our depth would be a draftee, Lucas, and maybe Larson.
Really depends on what the Redskins want for a soon-to be 32yr old OT with injury issues who sat out a year. I don't want anything to do with Larsen. He's garb.

Williams, Daniels, Whitehair, Leno, Massie, Lucas, Levin, Rookie OT would be fine for 2020... again, depending on what Washington wants and Williams contract demands. Having said that, you realistically can't look at Williams as more than a 1-2 yr stopgap. Massie also needs replaced very soon, and Lucas is creeping up on 30 as well.
Williams isn't leaving and The Redskins aren't going to want to trade him. The sole reason he sat out and demanded a trade was because of Bruce Allen, and a misdiagnosis by Washington's medical staff. Allen got sacked and the entire MS is gone now.

Trent is a team leader and the entire locker room is behind him. During his press conference all the players, present, cheered and applauded when he talked about all the problems he had with Bruce and the organization as a whole. And like posted he is in his 30's so there is not much trade value for him that The Skins would think is fair.

Re: Charles Leno 2019 Breakdown

Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:04 pm
by Yogi da Bear
I like Leno, but Leno would be a HORRIBLE guard. You guys said it yourself, "he's a pussy...." To be a guard, to play in the trenches, you have to be willing to mix it up. I don't see Leno doing that. He's more of a finesse guy. There simply aren't many "finesse guards," not successful ones at least. Early in his career, we tried Leno at RT. He was HORRIBLE! He's simply NOT a power, leverage guy. Leno is what he is--a good, not great, but good LT. And that's probably all he'll ever be, but it's absolutely worth having. We've seen what it's like having a BAD LT. Not a pretty sight.

Re: Charles Leno 2019 Breakdown

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:45 am
by Richie
The more I think about Leno. Let him try and redeem himself in 2020. He's been a solid, durable tackle his entire career leading up to last season. I'm sure he's itching to get back out there. I think he's a good bounce back candidate.

Re: Charles Leno 2019 Breakdown

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:29 pm
by Yogi da Bear
Richie wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:45 am
The more I think about Leno. Let him try and redeem himself in 2020. He's been a solid, durable tackle his entire career leading up to last season. I'm sure he's itching to get back out there. I think he's a good bounce back candidate.
He got married last year and was still in his Honeymoon phase. Let him get into married life more and he can really take his aggression out on the field. Oh, and if his wife get pregnant, you're talking about a Pro Bowl for him. :D

Re: Charles Leno 2019 Breakdown

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 6:15 pm
by spudbear
Not to beat a dead cash cow, but the big $$ Pace has invested in the two starting tackles does not give them much flexibility. For 2020 Leno is an $8M man and Massie is at $7M. Whitehair is close behind at about $5M. Any guesses on positional spending for the Bears?

OL comes in #2 at $30M, only bested by Mack leading the LB's at $47M. With the team looking to spend at TE and backup QB, there's not much wiggle room left for help on the OL besides finding a tough vet RG for maybe $4-5M. Getting Mitch back to his 2018 mobility will go a long way to helping his OT's look better.

I'm also wondering about Alex Bars, what kind of shot he'll get, how effective he'll be if he's fully healthy, and if he sticks around with Hiestadt gone. He could be a diamond in the rough, or just another guy with promise who couldn't crack the 51.

Re: Charles Leno 2019 Breakdown

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:22 pm
by dplank
Those are also the positions with the most players

Re: Charles Leno 2019 Breakdown

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:35 pm
by cblaz11
The Cardinals just gave DJ Humphries 15 mill a year...

Re: Charles Leno 2019 Breakdown

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:07 am
by wab
cblaz11 wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:35 pm
The Cardinals just gave DJ Humphries 15 mill a year...
And as much as it pains me to say, Leno is a better player than Humphries.

Re: Charles Leno 2019 Breakdown

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:28 am
by BreadNCircuses
wab wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:07 am
cblaz11 wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:35 pm
The Cardinals just gave DJ Humphries 15 mill a year...
And as much as it pains me to say, Leno is a better player than Humphries.
Yeah, I don't think I ever see Leno being an elite LT. But a serviceable and mostly healthy one. An average one you can win with against most teams and need to help out vs elite edge rushers? Yeah.
For what's looking like below-average starting LT money, it's hard to beat that value (10,300,000 in 2020, 11,300,000 in 2020).