Kwiatkoski or Trevathan Poll

[Wounded Bear]

Who do you want back Kwiatkoski or Trevathan?

[Moriarty]

Purely contribution, Trevathan, obviously.

For the likely price differential, Kwit.

[Richie]

Kwit

He'll be 27 this season, in his prime and seems to have just turned a corner. I don't think he would cost much and his deal would turn into really good value if he continues to play like he did to end the season.

Trevathan is coming off of another big injury and turns 30 in a couple of weeks. Probably costs more to boot.

[IE]

I could be wrong in some technical area, but to me the defense always looked better and more relentless with Kwiat out there. He can get to the QB, and he can even get a few picks. Plus, yeah - he's young and in his prime.

[dplank]

Kwit forces mentally challenged Pagano to play his guys in their proper positions. Looks like Kwit's going to get paid too, so not sure there's much price difference between the two. Danny is still the better player IMO. I didn't vote cause I have no idea what I want.

[Yogi da Bear]

I chose Danny, but to me there's a third option depending on the inner workings of the team--KPL. I thought that Kevin Pierre-Louis looked damn good last year in the middle. If either he or Roquan can handle calling the signals, I would prefer to go in that direction and bring in a rookie.

[IE]

I think almost everyone is expecting KPL to be back, and a good backup who can start & hold his own if called into duty. That's what Kwit was considered until last year when he proved he can start & deliver.

I agree Danny might be the technically "better" LB. But Kwit being at least close and 4 years younger with still potential upside is what drove my vote.

[Moriarty]

I think almost everyone is expecting KPL to be back, and a good backup who can start & hold his own if called into duty.

I wouldn't be so sure.
He got a few starts and graded out (PFF) exceptionally well. He could very well get a few M and a chance to start (or at least compete) that he won't here.

[southdakbearfan]

Trevathon has a long injury history and is the wrong side of 30.

Kwit is an ascending player the bears drafted and developed.

The choice is pretty simple.

[cblaz11]

If the choice is simple for us, it’s simple for the 32 GMs. I don’t think it’s a correct assumption that Danny T will cost more then Kwit.

I prefer Kwit, but what if Kwit costs 6-8 mill per year and Danny T costs 2-4...Then, it’s a tough decision and I probably go with Danny T.

[Mr.Irrelevant]

I went with Travathan for three reasons. First, I'm assuming he'll be the cheaper option. Second, He has a great reputation as a locker room leader, a rah-rah guy. I've never heard that about Kwiatkoski. And finally, Kwit, while a solid player and a good blitzer, just isn't fast enough to cover running backs crossing the field.

I know there's questions about Travathan's health, but if it's between just these two I still choose him.

[Umbali]

I love Danny however his injury history, his age and his cost makes him a no

[IE]

this post is a bit of a honey pot for me. Know thyself. LOL

Danny ran a 4.75 at his pro day and a 4.83 at combine. Kwit ran 4.73 at combine.
Neither is speed LB or really fast enough to keep up with a fast RB in stride. But the average 40 time for an NFL ILB is 4.76. Kwit is on the right side of that, and 4 years younger.

I really like Danny, and he has a good reputation as a leader & team guy. He had big years in '13 and '18 but in between has had injuries and performance that is nothing to write home about.

Kwit is bigger and actually slightly faster. He seems to be actually slightly more of an impact player/play-maker in more limited playing time (including with guys like Hicks and Roquan out), and is meaningfully younger. He projects to have more plays in the backfield and also just as many passes defended as Danny (although Danny did have 10 in '13 which was stellar).

So why the continued scrutiny of Kwit's physical limitations at this point - even favoring slower people over him? White guy can't jump? LOL

I personally believe Kwit is a "core key keep" on the D. More than Floyd or Danny. If I look at the poll through the lens of "who do I definitely not want to see playing for the Packers instead of Blake Martinez", the answer is 44.

[Drone7]

You're confusing straight line speed with play speed. Kwit has trouble with lateral quickness in coverage. Danny is a bit better in that regard, but no Littleton.

Don't forget that both Fangio and Pagano deemed Danny the better ILB to pair with Smith.

Not bashing Kwit. He improved last year. He is 3 years younger and hasn't had the set of serious (joint) injuries sustained by Danny T, so a good argument can be made for seeking to keep him instead of Danny.

[spudbear]

Reluctantly voted for Kwit, if there has to be a choice between the two. I'm hopeful Roquan can emerge as the defensive QB/leader that the team drafted him to be. I'd like to see Kwit start and KPL come in on some substitutions, particularly on probable pass plays where he has the speed to cover as well as get to the QB.

[southdakbearfan]

I had to go back and look, Danny has missed 18 games in his 4 seasons with chicago. He has also had almost an entire missed season when with Denver.

Typically linebackers don't get more healthy as they age in the NFL.

I would rather have Kwit at 6 to 8 million than Danny at 4. Shed Floyd's gross overpayment either by releasing him or restructuring to a much better number and there is more than enough to pay Kwit.

[G08]

Trevathan. Kwiatkoski is a nice story and I'm proud of him for keeping his focus while being a backup, but Trevathan is the better player in my football world.

Dude is "only" 29. Turns 30 this month.

[HurricaneBear]

Trevathan for me. I think leadership, especially at LB is important and Danny is far better in that regard. I am also shocked by some of the prices people think Kwit is going going to get. He is nothing special and at the numbers I see thrown around here for him i'd rather draft someone. I also like KPL better than Kwit. At a backup/fringe starter salary or 1 year prove it deal for Kwit i'd be happy to have him back but no way with some of these outrageous(to me) salaries.

[Drone7]

^This

A question(s) I have though...what's going on with Smith? I was hoping he'd become their B Wagner, running the defense, but so far, he hasn't been able to assume a leadership role either out of deference to older ILBs or his mysterious mental condition or lack of smarts. Wonder what the story is?

[Yogi da Bear]

^This

A question(s) I have though...what's going on with Smith? I was hoping he'd become their B Wagner, running the defense, but so far, he hasn't been able to assume a leadership role either out of deference to older ILBs or his mysterious mental condition or lack of smarts. Wonder what the story is?

These are the same questions I have. Personally, I'm with Hurricane as I also like KPL more than Kwit, but who's calling signals? Roquan should have been able to step into that role, but for whatever reason he hasn't. Can KPL do it? Don't know. We need somebody who can.

[G08]

The rumor is that Roquan had a medical scare that "shook him to his core". He's fine, obviously, but it sounds like it was a mental hurdle he needed time to clear.

[IE]

I like both. No doubt. I don't think Vic and Chuck "chose" Danny of Kwit as much as he was chosen (signed, and starting as a good player). They would have been kinda crazy to bench Danny for the backup no matter what - and I don't think anyone would advocate that they should have. But that's not a reason why one guy over the other now.

I know people believe Danny is better, because heck he's been a long-time starter and prized FA several years ago. But that is different that how they looked in games recently, or how they look to project at this point given their age. Kwit is ascending from an age and performance perspective. And while Danny could certainly still play well at 30 that is an age where we can expect some dropoff - including the "playing speed" rationale. Between us, I'd argue that Kwit looks quicker playing and seems to be in the right place more often. The run game looks better when he's in there. He seems more disruptive. But that's just me - that's far into "opinion" territory where it can't be proved one way or other.

I find it interesting that when the tangibles argument against Kwit diminished with his play, the intangible argument then works. To me that's the beginning of the justification for keeping a guy even if his play falls off. And I disagree with that philosophy.

[HurricaneBear]

I like both. No doubt. I don't think Vic and Chuck "chose" Danny of Kwit as much as he was chosen (signed, and starting as a good player). They would have been kinda crazy to bench Danny for the backup no matter what - and I don't think anyone would advocate that they should have. But that's not a reason why one guy over the other now.

I know people believe Danny is better, because heck he's been a long-time starter and prized FA several years ago. But that is different that how they looked in games recently, or how they look to project at this point given their age. Kwit is ascending from an age and performance perspective. And while Danny could certainly still play well at 30 that is an age where we can expect some dropoff - including the "playing speed" rationale. Between us, I'd argue that Kwit looks quicker playing and seems to be in the right place more often. The run game looks better when he's in there. He seems more disruptive. But that's just me - that's far into "opinion" territory where it can't be proved one way or other.

I find it interesting that when the tangibles argument against Kwit diminished with his play, the intangible argument then works. To me that's the beginning of the justification for keeping a guy even if his play falls off. And I disagree with that philosophy.

My argument against Kwit is completely based on cost. I've seen people saying up to 6-8 million. He is worth no where near that. He had 3 sacks, 1 FF and 1 Int last year. That is far from an impact player or disruptive. He's had a couple good games and really thats it. If it's more than a 2-3 million I'd rather draft a player or run with KPL to replace him. Roquan needs to be the stud in the middle if Danny is also too pricey. I don't think Danny will be, his best shot is here. If he is then i'm in favor of moving on from him also and as I said run with KPL and a draft pick.

With that said I think people are way over with what Kwit's market will be as I also think his best chance is here and he won't cost much. But if he does take a swing in the mid rounds of the draft on a LB. At least imo.

[UOK]

I'll take the younger, healthier guy you drafted over the older, injured veteran you signed under a different coach.

[southdakbearfan]

I like both. No doubt. I don't think Vic and Chuck "chose" Danny of Kwit as much as he was chosen (signed, and starting as a good player). They would have been kinda crazy to bench Danny for the backup no matter what - and I don't think anyone would advocate that they should have. But that's not a reason why one guy over the other now.

I know people believe Danny is better, because heck he's been a long-time starter and prized FA several years ago. But that is different that how they looked in games recently, or how they look to project at this point given their age. Kwit is ascending from an age and performance perspective. And while Danny could certainly still play well at 30 that is an age where we can expect some dropoff - including the "playing speed" rationale. Between us, I'd argue that Kwit looks quicker playing and seems to be in the right place more often. The run game looks better when he's in there. He seems more disruptive. But that's just me - that's far into "opinion" territory where it can't be proved one way or other.

I find it interesting that when the tangibles argument against Kwit diminished with his play, the intangible argument then works. To me that's the beginning of the justification for keeping a guy even if his play falls off. And I disagree with that philosophy.

My argument against Kwit is completely based on cost. I've seen people saying up to 6-8 million. He is worth no where near that. He had 3 sacks, 1 FF and 1 Int last year. That is far from an impact player or disruptive. He's had a couple good games and really thats it. If it's more than a 2-3 million I'd rather draft a player or run with KPL to replace him. Roquan needs to be the stud in the middle if Danny is also too pricey. I don't think Danny will be, his best shot is here. If he is then i'm in favor of moving on from him also and as I said run with KPL and a draft pick.

With that said I think people are way over with what Kwit's market will be as I also think his best chance is here and he won't cost much. But if he does take a swing in the mid rounds of the draft on a LB. At least imo.

Interesting take as his stats from 1/2 a season starting put him right up there with some of the top ilb’s in the game when extrapolated out to a season. They are also equal or superior than trevathon’s stats for 9 games.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

My argument against Kwit is completely based on cost. I've seen people saying up to 6-8 million. He is worth no where near that. He had 3 sacks, 1 FF and 1 Int last year. That is far from an impact player or disruptive...

With that said I think people are way over with what Kwit's market will be as I also think his best chance is here and he won't cost much. But if he does take a swing in the mid rounds of the draft on a LB. At least imo.

Yet Trevathan signed for $7m a year and made the following impact plays:
2016: 1 sack, 1 FF , 0 INT, 4 PD (9 Games, 8 Starts)
2017: 2 sacks, 1 FF, 1 INT, 5 PD (12 Games, 12 Starts)
2018: 2 sacks, 1 FF, 2 INT, 6 PD (16 Games, 16 Starts)
2019: 1 sack, 1 FF, 0 INT, 1 PD (9 Games, 9 Starts)

The year before Pace signed him he made the following impact plays with Denver:
2015: 0 sacks, 0 FF, 2 INT (1 TD), 6 PD (15 Games, 15 Starts)

Kwiatkoski's 2019 stat line compares favourably with any one of those years:
2019: 3 sacks (1 safety), 1 FF, 1 INT, 4 PD (16 Games, 8 Starts)

Admittedly Trevathan's production in his first 4 seasons was better than Kwiatkoski, notably in pass coverage:
Trevathan: 3 sacks, 3 FF, 5 INT, 19 PD (50 Games, 32 Starts)
Kwiatkoski: 6 sacks, 4 FF, 1 INT, 8 PD (57 Games, 22 Starts)

However, a lot of Trevathan's better numbers are due to one stellar season in 2013 when the Broncos made the Super Bowl. (2 sacks, 3 FF, 3 INT, 10 PD).

Projecting a second contract for Kwiatkoski in the same ball park as the one Trevathan signed isn't completely unreasonable, especially given that the salary cap has increased over the last four years. There are a lot of other factors to consider though, so whether he gets that remains to be seen.

[HurricaneBear]

My argument against Kwit is completely based on cost. I've seen people saying up to 6-8 million. He is worth no where near that. He had 3 sacks, 1 FF and 1 Int last year. That is far from an impact player or disruptive. He's had a couple good games and really thats it. If it's more than a 2-3 million I'd rather draft a player or run with KPL to replace him. Roquan needs to be the stud in the middle if Danny is also too pricey. I don't think Danny will be, his best shot is here. If he is then i'm in favor of moving on from him also and as I said run with KPL and a draft pick.

With that said I think people are way over with what Kwit's market will be as I also think his best chance is here and he won't cost much. But if he does take a swing in the mid rounds of the draft on a LB. At least imo.

Interesting take as his stats from 1/2 a season starting put him right up there with some of the top ilb’s in the game when extrapolated out to a season. They are also equal or superior than trevathon’s stats for 9 games.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough but I did say if Danny was too pricey I would draft a MLB and run with KPL. I'm not one to play the well if we just play with the numbers for a full season they'd equal out to this type person. I don't think we should pay alot to either Danny or Kwit, however the poll didn't have an option for KPL/draft pick.

[HurricaneBear]

My argument against Kwit is completely based on cost. I've seen people saying up to 6-8 million. He is worth no where near that. He had 3 sacks, 1 FF and 1 Int last year. That is far from an impact player or disruptive...

With that said I think people are way over with what Kwit's market will be as I also think his best chance is here and he won't cost much. But if he does take a swing in the mid rounds of the draft on a LB. At least imo.

Yet Trevathan signed for $7m a year and made the following impact plays:
2016: 1 sack, 1 FF , 0 INT, 4 PD (9 Games, 8 Starts)
2017: 2 sacks, 1 FF, 1 INT, 5 PD (12 Games, 12 Starts)
2018: 2 sacks, 1 FF, 2 INT, 6 PD (16 Games, 16 Starts)
2019: 1 sack, 1 FF, 0 INT, 1 PD (9 Games, 9 Starts)

The year before Pace signed him he made the following impact plays with Denver:
2015: 0 sacks, 0 FF, 2 INT (1 TD), 6 PD (15 Games, 15 Starts)

Kwiatkoski's 2019 stat line compares favourably with any one of those years:
2019: 3 sacks (1 safety), 1 FF, 1 INT, 4 PD (16 Games, 8 Starts)

Admittedly Trevathan's production in his first 4 seasons was better than Kwiatkoski, notably in pass coverage:
Trevathan: 3 sacks, 3 FF, 5 INT, 19 PD (50 Games, 32 Starts)
Kwiatkoski: 6 sacks, 4 FF, 1 INT, 8 PD (57 Games, 22 Starts)

However, a lot of Trevathan's better numbers are due to one stellar season in 2013 when the Broncos made the Super Bowl. (2 sacks, 3 FF, 3 INT, 10 PD).

Projecting a second contract for Kwiatkoski in the same ball park as the one Trevathan signed isn't completely unreasonable, especially given that the salary cap has increased over the last four years. There are a lot of other factors to consider though, so whether he gets that remains to be seen.

FWIW I was not a big fan of signing DT and thought he was overpaid. Didn't hate it either but it wasn't what I would do if I had been GM at the time(not that that counts for anything). I also think he has more of an impact with calling adjustments/plays and leadership than Kwit does, but thats pretty hard for any of us to really know not being on the field/in the locker room.

And as I have said, I'd rather run with Roquan and KPL and draft picks if DT or NK won't take a small contract.

[Wounded Bear]

I know Kwit has been a liability in pass coverage, however I think we saw massive improvement when he got more playing time. And to be honest, I haven't been exactly super impressed with Trevathan's pass coverage skills.

Kwit is younger, healthier, more durable than Trevathan. His stopping power and his pass rush is better than Tevathan. He's disciplined and is rarely out of position.

The clock is ticking on Trevathan. If everything is equal or close to equal, I err to the side of youth......but it appears the stats are in Kwits favor and he's only improving.

With that said, I will always love Trevathan for nearly murdering Devante Adams. Fuck that guy.

[thunderspirit]

Between the two, Kwit is the obvious choice.