Bears re-sign LB Danny Trevathan to 3yr extension, $14M gtd

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southdakbearfan
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Re: Bears re-sign LB Danny Trevathan to 3yr extension, $14M gtd

Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:34 pm

wab wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:44 pm
FWIW Kwit got almost the same exact deal as DT. Makes the DT deal look kinda questionable now.
If the OTC numbers are right, Pace screwed the pooch letting Kwit go for the same money.
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Re: Bears re-sign LB Danny Trevathan to 3yr extension, $14M gtd

Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:59 pm

Maybe Kwit came to Bears with $10m/yr so they signed DT and Kwit could only get $5m? Or maybe they don’t like Kwit even though he’s home grown? I dunno.
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Re: Bears re-sign LB Danny Trevathan to 3yr extension, $14M gtd

Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:51 pm

crueltyabc wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:59 pm
Maybe Kwit came to Bears with $10m/yr so they signed DT and Kwit could only get $5m? Or maybe they don’t like Kwit even though he’s home grown? I dunno.
I would say the chances of this are zero.

Kwit specifically stated he like it here. Pace simply judged DT was worth more than Kwit.

Time will tell which one is correct but I got a pretty good idea who is going to put up better numbers over the next 3 seasons.
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Re: Bears re-sign LB Danny Trevathan to 3yr extension, $14M gtd

Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:06 pm

I think Pace made the strategic decision to met Kwit go in order to get a comp pick. It’s short sighted, but it’s the only thing I can think of.
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Re: Bears re-sign LB Danny Trevathan to 3yr extension, $14M gtd

Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:11 pm

But..if the season gets truncated by the C-19..then ,maybe DT and Graham can play the shortened season !!
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Re: Bears re-sign LB Danny Trevathan to 3yr extension, $14M gtd

Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:45 am

Kwit is going to go off to be a nobody and everyone will forget they were so upset he left
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Re: Bears re-sign LB Danny Trevathan to 3yr extension, $14M gtd

Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:01 am

wab wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:06 pm
I think Pace made the strategic decision to met Kwit go in order to get a comp pick. It’s short sighted, but it’s the only thing I can think of.
The comp situation would be exactly the same if he'd signed Kwit and let Trevathan walk instead (unless no one else would pay Trevathan or give him a starter's job, which isn't really plausible).
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Re: Bears re-sign LB Danny Trevathan to 3yr extension, $14M gtd

Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:13 am

The Cooler King wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:37 pm
RichH55 wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:07 pm




Time value of money (and cap space) - never forget
Time value of money is a questionable way to look at it if you can't afford the hit now, IMO.
Why exactly? If you cant afford it now and push it to 3-4 years from now - why would not being able to afford the cap hit now matter much if at all?
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Re: Bears re-sign LB Danny Trevathan to 3yr extension, $14M gtd

Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:34 am

Not upset. He was playing last year due to someone else being injured. I believe Trevathan is a better all around LB who happens to get injured a little bit. I think Trevathan plays well and I believe the LB core in general will be top notch. Kwit will not be missed. It is just nice when a team builds from the ground up with its own players.
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Re: Bears re-sign LB Danny Trevathan to 3yr extension, $14M gtd

Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:10 am

It’s a gamble for kwit to as he’s going to a 4-3. More responsibility.
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Re: Bears re-sign LB Danny Trevathan to 3yr extension, $14M gtd

Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:31 am

RichH55 wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:13 am
The Cooler King wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:37 pm

Time value of money is a questionable way to look at it if you can't afford the hit now, IMO.
Why exactly? If you cant afford it now and push it to 3-4 years from now - why would not being able to afford the cap hit now matter much if at all?
Its more a timing mechanism to "bunch" resources than a traditional finance time value of money thing. The NFL salary cap as a marketable "asset" is just such a closed market and a fixed value. You can't out earn your interest rate like a traditional asset.

Where I think there is some time-valuing concept of the cap is the structure of unguaranteed hits. But with guaranteed hits, and specifically the "false" year hits like he did with Fuller and Trevathans, you really are just robbing Peter to pay Paul. Not shitting on that strategy as an absolute rule, but let's be clear, this is just a full tilt strategy designed to create additional cap stress later. But it shouldn't be a surprise. This is all straight out if the NO/Loomis playbook.
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Re: Bears re-sign LB Danny Trevathan to 3yr extension, $14M gtd

Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:49 pm

The Cooler King wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:31 am
RichH55 wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:13 am


Why exactly? If you cant afford it now and push it to 3-4 years from now - why would not being able to afford the cap hit now matter much if at all?
Its more a timing mechanism to "bunch" resources than a traditional finance time value of money thing. The NFL salary cap as a marketable "asset" is just such a closed market and a fixed value. You can't out earn your interest rate like a traditional asset.

Where I think there is some time-valuing concept of the cap is the structure of unguaranteed hits. But with guaranteed hits, and specifically the "false" year hits like he did with Fuller and Trevathans, you really are just robbing Peter to pay Paul. Not shitting on that strategy as an absolute rule, but let's be clear, this is just a full tilt strategy designed to create additional cap stress later. But it shouldn't be a surprise. This is all straight out if the NO/Loomis playbook.


Fair enough - though I'd also note with the new CBA the Cap should keep going up.

So as a % of cap space this should be less as well in the future
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Re: Bears re-sign LB Danny Trevathan to 3yr extension, $14M gtd

Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:28 pm

The % of cap hit is fair, and it's why this strategy can work out, but I look at and calculate financial returns all the time in my job and it kind of annoys me when people conflate something like cap maneuvering as time value. It's really not the same. /end nit
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Re: Bears re-sign LB Danny Trevathan to 3yr extension, $14M gtd

Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:01 pm

The dream of any fan should be that your drafted players play their way out of town by becoming too expensive.

That said, if I had to pick between DT and Kwit for roughly the same money, I would have picked DT. The guy is a dog on the field and a leader in the locker room. For all we know, Kwit may not even live up to this contract.
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Re: Bears re-sign LB Danny Trevathan to 3yr extension, $14M gtd

Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:03 am

I've been thinking about and I think the choice for Danny over Kwit came down to one consideration--pass defense. Yeah, I know, you guys can point to how Kwit was actually faster coming out of college. So what? It doesn't show up on the field. How many times have you seen Kwit futilely trailing a RB or TE across the middle? Danny? Hardly ever.

So what happens if Roquan was to go down? Who would be our nickel and dime MLB? Kwit? Really? You want to see Kwit dropping into the deep middle in a Cover Two shell? Ugh. More grotesque than watching Fatty porn. There's a reason the Raiders signed Cory Littleton just days after signing Kwit.
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Re: Bears re-sign LB Danny Trevathan to 3yr extension, $14M gtd

Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:29 pm

Yogi da Bear wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:03 am
I've been thinking about and I think the choice for Danny over Kwit came down to one consideration--pass defense. Yeah, I know, you guys can point to how Kwit was actually faster coming out of college. So what? It doesn't show up on the field. How many times have you seen Kwit futilely trailing a RB or TE across the middle? Danny? Hardly ever.

So what happens if Roquan was to go down? Who would be our nickel and dime MLB? Kwit? Really? You want to see Kwit dropping into the deep middle in a Cover Two shell? Ugh. More grotesque than watching Fatty porn. There's a reason the Raiders signed Cory Littleton just days after signing Kwit.


It kind of showed up last year - Speed wise - yeah

I don't think this is one of your better takes. Danny T was playing at a borderline Pro Bowl level last year and is an absolute team leader - I think that is the decision in a nutshell

If the Bears had Littleton - then Danny T would see less in terms of coverage responsibility as well - That is Littleton's game (and hopefully a good chuck of Smith's too btw)
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Re: Bears re-sign LB Danny Trevathan to 3yr extension, $14M gtd

Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:44 pm

Kwit at back up late round pick money is a great player. I'm not sure if everyone feels the same about him at starter (even lower level) money.
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Re: Bears re-sign LB Danny Trevathan to 3yr extension, $14M gtd

Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:48 pm

But we don't have Littleton, nor were we expected to get him. This is regarding the decision to keep DT over Kwit. Has nothing to Littleton.

Some on this board have expressed exasperation over the Bears keeping DT over Kwit. Both have proven they can run the defense, and many have express angst that we kept DT over Kwit for the same amount of money.

I saying the reason we kept DT is because of coverage abilities. It's absolutely clear that DT is the better coverage LB. As such, he's also better depth as a nickel or dime LB than Kwit is. Kwit is strictly a first and second down and short yardage LB. The Raiders themselves recognized this by signing Littleton immediately after signing Kwit. That's the point of Littleton.

So for the same amount of money, the Bears signed a leader who can run the defense but also play in passing situations if necessary, something that Kwit really doesn't offer.

Sounds like a pretty good take to me.
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Re: Bears re-sign LB Danny Trevathan to 3yr extension, $14M gtd

Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:17 pm

Yogi da Bear wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:48 pm
But we don't have Littleton, nor were we expected to get him. This is regarding the decision to keep DT over Kwit. Has nothing to Littleton.

Some on this board have expressed exasperation over the Bears keeping DT over Kwit. Both have proven they can run the defense, and many have express angst that we kept DT over Kwit for the same amount of money.

I saying the reason we kept DT is because of coverage abilities. It's absolutely clear that DT is the better coverage LB. As such, he's also better depth as a nickel or dime LB than Kwit is. Kwit is strictly a first and second down and short yardage LB. The Raiders themselves recognized this by signing Littleton immediately after signing Kwit. That's the point of Littleton.

So for the same amount of money, the Bears signed a leader who can run the defense but also play in passing situations if necessary, something that Kwit really doesn't offer.

Sounds like a pretty good take to me.
I prefer DT over Kwit, so just making that clear right off the bat. But, I can see the other side of the argument which is: Kwit is younger with no real injury history, and since Roquan is already a very good cover ILB DT is a little redundant there and Kwit's ability to take on a blocker heads up would make for a nice duo with Roquan (Roquan could take the nickel/dime stuff). With Roquan+DT, neither guy can take on a blocker heads up, they are too small.
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Re: Bears re-sign LB Danny Trevathan to 3yr extension, $14M gtd

Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:36 pm

Yogi da Bear wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:48 pm
But we don't have Littleton, nor were we expected to get him. This is regarding the decision to keep DT over Kwit. Has nothing to Littleton.

Some on this board have expressed exasperation over the Bears keeping DT over Kwit. Both have proven they can run the defense, and many have express angst that we kept DT over Kwit for the same amount of money.

I saying the reason we kept DT is because of coverage abilities. It's absolutely clear that DT is the better coverage LB. As such, he's also better depth as a nickel or dime LB than Kwit is. Kwit is strictly a first and second down and short yardage LB. The Raiders themselves recognized this by signing Littleton immediately after signing Kwit. That's the point of Littleton.

So for the same amount of money, the Bears signed a leader who can run the defense but also play in passing situations if necessary, something that Kwit really doesn't offer.

Sounds like a pretty good take to me.
Every snap DT is in coverage is a win for the Offense - so no it's not a great take

It's not really the strength of DT's game - hence why R. Smith will be doing that more so

The point of Littleton - is that we already have a guy who can do that (and hopefully more) in the form of SMITH (not DT)

DT played great last year - and he's a leader - He is only average in coverage and the more you play him in that manner - the worse you can expect results.
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Re: Bears re-sign LB Danny Trevathan to 3yr extension, $14M gtd

Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:16 pm

RichH55 wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:36 pm
Every snap DT is in coverage is a win for the Offense - so no it's not a great take
That's a completely insane take based on a penchant for hyperbole. If DT being in coverage is a win for the offense, then they're winning on at least 90% of their pass plays, as DT drops into coverage on at least that many.
RichH55 wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:36 pm
It's not really the strength of DT's game - hence why R. Smith will be doing that more so

DT played great last year - and he's a leader - He is only average in coverage and the more you play him in that manner - the worse you can expect results.
DT isn't Roquan in coverage, but he's much better than average. He's better than Lance Briggs ever was in coverage. And he's light years better than Kwit is. Look at how the Bears used the two LBs in last year's first victory against the Vikings when Roquan was out:



Yeah, I stand by my take.
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Re: Bears re-sign LB Danny Trevathan to 3yr extension, $14M gtd

Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:04 am

You always do - rarely makes them correct. It's not DT's game - nor do we really need it to be.

He's really good when healthy
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Re: Bears re-sign LB Danny Trevathan to 3yr extension, $14M gtd

Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:54 pm

The spirit of CBFans live, Just don't take it too far. But this does give me a warm feeling of the old home.

But cheers to the new improved home. :toast:
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Re: Bears re-sign LB Danny Trevathan to 3yr extension, $14M gtd

Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:47 pm

The Grizzly One wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:54 pm
The spirit of CBFans live, Just don't take it too far. But this does give me a warm feeling of the old home.

But cheers to the new improved home. :toast:
I can only assume you are toasting that with a fantastic espresso....

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