Bears acquiring Foles for a 4th

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southdakbearfan
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Re: Bears acquiring Foles for a 4th

Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:18 am

Otis Day wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:13 am
Foles is now a Bears QB. Chance of success = 50% or less. It is just the way it is, because........Bears. :angry:
Negative waves baby.
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Re: Bears acquiring Foles for a 4th

Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:20 am

History is a bitch.
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Re: Bears acquiring Foles for a 4th

Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:46 am

dplank wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:10 am
RustyTrubisky wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:58 am
I dont think we're getting rid of Mitch, but I do firmly believe that Foles was told the job is his. The more I think about it, I just dont think he leaves a backup job in a state with no income tax to come to a team in a different state where he'd effectively make less money to be a backup.
If he already declared residency in Florida when he moved here to play for Jax, he doesn't have to change his residency just because he plays for the Bears. He's established his Florida residency so he's good, I don't see that as a factor. He also got most of that money from Jacksonville already, we're on the hook for what's left.

Also, he was traded, so not sure how much choice he had in the matter. He had to agree to a restructure to finish the deal, so I suppose he had some small say and could have basically blocked it if he wanted to be a dick. I don't see how that benefits him though.

And last point, even if he had some small say in it, I bet he sees a better chance to play in Chicago than Jacksonville since they already made their decision to play Minshew. But Chicago is clearly looking for an alternative to Mitch.

So overall, I don't think he's been promised anything other than a chance to compete.
lol, what're you talking about? he has all the leverage in the world. he wasnt "already traded" because no way we're trading for him if he doesnt restructure.

Again, he wants to start, he's not coming here to be a backup. and he's definitely not taking less money unless he expressly has that guarantee.
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Re: Bears acquiring Foles for a 4th

Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:51 am

How exactly is he taking less money?
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Re: Bears acquiring Foles for a 4th

Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:03 pm

dplank wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:51 am
How exactly is he taking less money?
Short answer - we don't have the details yet.

Longer answer - Jacksonville may have converted roster bonuses to signing bonuses and picked them up. Foles could reallocate some of his ungaranteed money to different years, or reduce them altogether. Schefter says Foles is getting some type of opt out, so it would reason logically he may have agreed to give up non-guaranteed money to facilitate that flexibility.
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Re: Bears acquiring Foles for a 4th

Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:49 pm

Funkster wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:19 am
I used to have faith in Pace, was on the fence with Nagy after last season, now that is in question with the Foles signing.

Foles is without a doubt the day 1 starter, there will be no competition. You don’t give up your only 4th round draft pick and take on a contract with $21MG with a $15.62M cap hit in 2020 and not crown him your starter.

With that said, over the last 3 years Foles has played in 16 regular season games, he's thrown 15 tds and 8 ints over that span. He's never played an entire season...ever. He started 4 games for the jags and went 0-4 in those games. He couldn't beat out a rookie and the jags ate 19M to get rid of him.

He’s never latch onto a team, he’s played for the:
Jags -19’
Eagles - 18’-17’
KC - 16’
Rams - 15’-16’


There are red flags all over that dude but yet the bears bent over and took it with no lube from the jags. Fools gold Foles is his name and ripping off teams is his game!
You got that wrong.

Foles is gold. Winning Super Bowls is his game!

#2 coming soon to a certain Soldier Field near you my friend!

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Re: Bears acquiring Foles for a 4th

Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:48 pm

I'm optimistic that he could be a Chris Chandler (Falcons version) or Steve DeBerg (Chiefs version) experienced journeyman who performs well on an otherwise great team.

I'm realistic that he may just be average. But we've been looking way up towards average, and that's a fact.
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Re: Bears acquiring Foles for a 4th

Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:43 pm

All he has to do is hit one receiver in stride downfield in the first training camp practice and the job is his.
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Re: Bears acquiring Foles for a 4th

Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:45 pm

For two years I've been telling myself that with this defense, all we need is the offense to not be historically bad. The offense looked promising in 2018 before it completely shit the bed last year. I'm pretty sure Foles can manage this offense to be at least average.
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Re: Bears acquiring Foles for a 4th

Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:27 pm

AZ_Bearfan wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:45 pm
For two years I've been telling myself that with this defense, all we need is the offense to not be historically bad. The offense looked promising in 2018 before it completely shit the bed last year. I'm pretty sure Foles can manage this offense to be at least average.
Last years defense wasn't championship calibre IMO, at least in terms of being a "defense carries the offense" type of team like the Broncos from a few years back. The year before was, and I'm thinking we might be again next year with Quinn in the mix. Remember what adding Mack did for the 2018 defense?Adding the Robin to his Batman is going to have a similar effect I think. It's just a different ballgame trying to defend two great outside pass rushers at once, let alone having a bull like Hicks inside coming at you. With Floyd, teams dared him to beat them and doubled/tripled Mack - esp. when Hicks went out. And Floyd simply couldn't deliver. No more of that crap. Hicks is back and Quinn is on the other side now. Good luck with that.

:wave1:
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Re: Bears acquiring Foles for a 4th

Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:41 pm

Otis Day wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:13 am
Foles is now a Bears QB. Chance of success = 50% or less. It is just the way it is, because........Bears. :angry:
50%?! As Bears fans we should be rejoicing at such odds! :shocked:

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Re: Bears acquiring Foles for a 4th

Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:08 pm

Gruden with Foles pre-draft. There's one particular line that's good for quite a chuckle from Bear fans.
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Re: Bears acquiring Foles for a 4th

Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:44 am

Is Foles gonna block in the running game?
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Re: Bears acquiring Foles for a 4th

Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:32 am

RustyTrubisky wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:46 am
dplank wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:10 am


If he already declared residency in Florida when he moved here to play for Jax, he doesn't have to change his residency just because he plays for the Bears. He's established his Florida residency so he's good, I don't see that as a factor. He also got most of that money from Jacksonville already, we're on the hook for what's left.

Also, he was traded, so not sure how much choice he had in the matter. He had to agree to a restructure to finish the deal, so I suppose he had some small say and could have basically blocked it if he wanted to be a dick. I don't see how that benefits him though.

And last point, even if he had some small say in it, I bet he sees a better chance to play in Chicago than Jacksonville since they already made their decision to play Minshew. But Chicago is clearly looking for an alternative to Mitch.

So overall, I don't think he's been promised anything other than a chance to compete.
lol, what're you talking about? he has all the leverage in the world. he wasnt "already traded" because no way we're trading for him if he doesnt restructure.

Again, he wants to start, he's not coming here to be a backup. and he's definitely not taking less money unless he expressly has that guarantee.
Well, we brought HIM here. Not visa versa. So, you're logic still misses that part of the equation. Your logic also misses that "competing to be a starter" is better than being a sure-fire backup to Minshew. The Bears are his only shot to start this season.

Most importantly on this topic...

Teddy Bridgewater did not sign here because we could not guarantee him the starting job. That is despite reportedly offering him more than Carolina.

We were offering Teddy OVER 20 mil to come here as a free agent and within our recruitment we would NOT guarantee him the starting job.

Why are you so sure that it would be different for Foles? With whom we traded for.
Year 3 Starting (updated yearly)

Brees (11-4): 65.5% (7th) 7.9 Y/A (7th) 27 TD (7th) 6.8 TD% (4th) 7 INT 1.8 INT% (3rd) 104 Rating (3rd)

Trubisky (8-7): 63.2% (18th) 6.1 Y/A (32nd) 17 TD (27th) 3.3 TD% (30th) 10 INT 1.9 INT% (15th) 83 Rating (28th)
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Re: Bears acquiring Foles for a 4th

Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:52 am

Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".

Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
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Re: Bears acquiring Foles for a 4th

Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:58 am

southdakbearfan wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:18 am
Otis Day wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:13 am
Foles is now a Bears QB. Chance of success = 50% or less. It is just the way it is, because........Bears. :angry:
Negative waves baby.
Ummm. I think that would be "Moriarity" not "Baby." ;)

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Re: Bears acquiring Foles for a 4th

Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:15 am

Richie wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:32 am
RustyTrubisky wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:46 am


lol, what're you talking about? he has all the leverage in the world. he wasnt "already traded" because no way we're trading for him if he doesnt restructure.

Again, he wants to start, he's not coming here to be a backup. and he's definitely not taking less money unless he expressly has that guarantee.
Well, we brought HIM here. Not visa versa. So, you're logic still misses that part of the equation. Your logic also misses that "competing to be a starter" is better than being a sure-fire backup to Minshew. The Bears are his only shot to start this season.

Most importantly on this topic...

Teddy Bridgewater did not sign here because we could not guarantee him the starting job. That is despite reportedly offering him more than Carolina.

We were offering Teddy OVER 20 mil to come here as a free agent and within our recruitment we would NOT guarantee him the starting job.

Why are you so sure that it would be different for Foles? With whom we traded for.
not to be a jerk, but i guess i dont understand your first paragraph? what's vice-versa to us bringing him here? him bringing the bears to jacksonville?

we wanted to trade for him, we approached him and his agent and said "would you be willing to restructure your contract because we are not going to trade for that giant albatross?"

at this point, foles has the option to say "no way". and without some guarantees from the bears he definitely would. Minshew isnt some world beater and could just as easily eat shit and lose his job back to foles next year. hell, it wasnt until a while after the season ended that the jags would even commit to minshew going forward as their starting qb.

SO, follow along, my THEORY is that Foles could stay in sunny california with it's 0% income tax, make more money (if he's got 21 million left guaranteed, that is over a million dollars in income tax in illinois) and just wait for Minshew to falter. It's a negotiation and the bears have to offer something in return.

who knows, maybe foles hates jacksonville, or maybe he's deluded to think that if he fails here and gets his freedom in another 2-3 years he'll have a legit starting opportunity somewhere else. but i think the only real thing the bears can offer, short of MORE MONEY, is a guarantee to start.
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Re: Bears acquiring Foles for a 4th

Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:24 am

Thx for sharing this
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Re: Bears acquiring Foles for a 4th

Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:33 am

RustyTrubisky wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:15 am
SO, follow along, my THEORY is that Foles could stay in sunny california with it's 0% income tax, make more money (if he's got 21 million left guaranteed, that is over a million dollars in income tax in illinois) and just wait for Minshew to falter. It's a negotiation and the bears have to offer something in return.
Ummm. I think you meant Sunny Florida. You know how I know this? Because California has a hellacious income tax. lol
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Re: Bears acquiring Foles for a 4th

Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:35 am

RustyTrubisky wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:15 am
Richie wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:32 am


Well, we brought HIM here. Not visa versa. So, you're logic still misses that part of the equation. Your logic also misses that "competing to be a starter" is better than being a sure-fire backup to Minshew. The Bears are his only shot to start this season.

Most importantly on this topic...

Teddy Bridgewater did not sign here because we could not guarantee him the starting job. That is despite reportedly offering him more than Carolina.

We were offering Teddy OVER 20 mil to come here as a free agent and within our recruitment we would NOT guarantee him the starting job.

Why are you so sure that it would be different for Foles? With whom we traded for.
not to be a jerk, but i guess i dont understand your first paragraph? what's vice-versa to us bringing him here? him bringing the bears to jacksonville?

we wanted to trade for him, we approached him and his agent and said "would you be willing to restructure your contract because we are not going to trade for that giant albatross?"

at this point, foles has the option to say "no way". and without some guarantees from the bears he definitely would. Minshew isnt some world beater and could just as easily eat shit and lose his job back to foles next year. hell, it wasnt until a while after the season ended that the jags would even commit to minshew going forward as their starting qb.

SO, follow along, my THEORY is that Foles could stay in sunny california with it's 0% income tax, make more money (if he's got 21 million left guaranteed, that is over a million dollars in income tax in illinois) and just wait for Minshew to falter. It's a negotiation and the bears have to offer something in return.

who knows, maybe foles hates jacksonville, or maybe he's deluded to think that if he fails here and gets his freedom in another 2-3 years he'll have a legit starting opportunity somewhere else. but i think the only real thing the bears can offer, short of MORE MONEY, is a guarantee to start.
I don't get the tax issue. I live in Florida, and while living here earned income from a company that was based out of Dallas. I paid no state income tax, only federal. Florida taxes you differently, it's not much better really - they bend you over on property tax like you wouldn't believe. Nick Foles has established Florida residency, wouldn't it work the same way for him unless he chooses to move FT to Illinois? The rules are for a FL resident, you must spend 50.1% of your time here - he can still do that since the NFL season is so friggin short. Unless I'm missing some specific Illinois tax law thing, this should be a non issue.
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Re: Bears acquiring Foles for a 4th

Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:38 am

Disagree. I think Trubisky is traded one way or another for a whatever pick, and Pace moves down (initially) to recoup some picks.
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Re: Bears acquiring Foles for a 4th

Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:17 am

Yogi da Bear wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:33 am
RustyTrubisky wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:15 am
SO, follow along, my THEORY is that Foles could stay in sunny california with it's 0% income tax, make more money (if he's got 21 million left guaranteed, that is over a million dollars in income tax in illinois) and just wait for Minshew to falter. It's a negotiation and the bears have to offer something in return.
Ummm. I think you meant Sunny Florida. You know how I know this? Because California has a hellacious income tax. lol
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Re: Bears acquiring Foles for a 4th

Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:23 am

dplank wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:35 am

I don't get the tax issue. I live in Florida, and while living here earned income from a company that was based out of Dallas. I paid no state income tax, only federal. Florida taxes you differently, it's not much better really - they bend you over on property tax like you wouldn't believe. Nick Foles has established Florida residency, wouldn't it work the same way for him unless he chooses to move FT to Illinois? The rules are for a FL resident, you must spend 50.1% of your time here - he can still do that since the NFL season is so friggin short. Unless I'm missing some specific Illinois tax law thing, this should be a non issue.
i am happy to admit that i dont have a single fact to back this up, but my opinion is that if nick foles wants to be the starting qb for the chicago bears next year, he is not going to spend over 50% of his time in florida.
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Re: Bears acquiring Foles for a 4th

Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:04 pm

RustyTrubisky wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:15 am
Richie wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:32 am


Well, we brought HIM here. Not visa versa. So, you're logic still misses that part of the equation. Your logic also misses that "competing to be a starter" is better than being a sure-fire backup to Minshew. The Bears are his only shot to start this season.

Most importantly on this topic...

Teddy Bridgewater did not sign here because we could not guarantee him the starting job. That is despite reportedly offering him more than Carolina.

We were offering Teddy OVER 20 mil to come here as a free agent and within our recruitment we would NOT guarantee him the starting job.

Why are you so sure that it would be different for Foles? With whom we traded for.
not to be a jerk, but i guess i dont understand your first paragraph? what's vice-versa to us bringing him here? him bringing the bears to jacksonville?

we wanted to trade for him, we approached him and his agent and said "would you be willing to restructure your contract because we are not going to trade for that giant albatross?"

at this point, foles has the option to say "no way". and without some guarantees from the bears he definitely would. Minshew isnt some world beater and could just as easily eat shit and lose his job back to foles next year. hell, it wasnt until a while after the season ended that the jags would even commit to minshew going forward as their starting qb.

SO, follow along, my THEORY is that Foles could stay in sunny california with it's 0% income tax, make more money (if he's got 21 million left guaranteed, that is over a million dollars in income tax in illinois) and just wait for Minshew to falter. It's a negotiation and the bears have to offer something in return.

who knows, maybe foles hates jacksonville, or maybe he's deluded to think that if he fails here and gets his freedom in another 2-3 years he'll have a legit starting opportunity somewhere else. but i think the only real thing the bears can offer, short of MORE MONEY, is a guarantee to start.
not to be a jerk, but i guess i dont understand your first paragraph? what's vice-versa to us bringing him here? him bringing the bears to jacksonville?
We traded for him. This is very different from free agency. Less of a choice on his part.
at this point, foles has the option to say "no way". and without some guarantees from the bears he definitely would. Minshew isnt some world beater and could just as easily eat shit and lose his job back to foles next year. hell, it wasnt until a while after the season ended that the jags would even commit to minshew going forward as their starting qb.
Except they did commit and Minshew IS the starting QB. It was the obvious choice as they're in full blown rebuild mode and he's 23. Foles is 31.
SO, follow along, my THEORY is that Foles could stay in sunny california with it's 0% income tax, make more money (if he's got 21 million left guaranteed, that is over a million dollars in income tax in illinois) and just wait for Minshew to falter. It's a negotiation and the bears have to offer something in return.
I have followed along.

Florida, not Cali, but yes. Also, I believe strongly that I have read your game checks are taxed depending on where you play that particular game. So, he would have some of his income taxed, regardless.

Yeah, he could wait for another guy to falter. Which, who knows if they even give up on him for a 31 year old in a rebuild year where losing even improves draft positioning. Or... he could take his big ass contract (just slightly altered as to when he gets his money, not IF he will). Still make a shitload of money. Go to Chicago and have a chance to start.

- Foles has no shot to start in Jacksonville or anywhere else.
- Foles has a shot to start in Chicago. This is a good deal of incentive to go to Chicago, in itself.
- Having a shot to start is better than being the day 1 consensus backup. Not to mention, for a brutal team with no chance to win.
- Foles contract and guaranteed money isn't leaving. It will just be taxed. He has had contracts taxed before.

- Bridgewater was clearly told he would have to compete. The Bears were offering him 20 mil per. Why would Foles be told different?

Therefore, I roundly reject your notion that the only way he would have incentive to leave is if he was "guaranteed" something.

I roundly reject your notion that there is anything pointing to the notion that he was guaranteed something.

I think there is WAAAAYYY more pointing to that he was simply guaranteed a chance.
but i think the only real thing the bears can offer, short of MORE MONEY, is a guarantee to start.
Foles is not being offered even a CHANCE to start in Jacksonville or anywhere else. I guess I Just don't get what there is to miss.

A chance to compete for a starting job > Zero chance to compete for a starting job.

That is offering more than what Jacksonville can.

Is "no income tax" enough to stay in the wasteland of the NFL, for what could be a 1-2 win team... as a backup QB?

Versus coming to Chicago. Having the same money taxed as potentially a starting QB for a MUCH more competitive team? Not to mention, a place that isn't just a dead zone for NFL football?

I think there's clearly A LOT of incentive for Foles without a guarantee. And I think the Bridgewater situation points to us not having guaranteed anything to Foles either.
Year 3 Starting (updated yearly)

Brees (11-4): 65.5% (7th) 7.9 Y/A (7th) 27 TD (7th) 6.8 TD% (4th) 7 INT 1.8 INT% (3rd) 104 Rating (3rd)

Trubisky (8-7): 63.2% (18th) 6.1 Y/A (32nd) 17 TD (27th) 3.3 TD% (30th) 10 INT 1.9 INT% (15th) 83 Rating (28th)
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Re: Bears acquiring Foles for a 4th

Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:19 pm

Not to go down a rabbit hole - but don't NFL players pay taxes in the states where they earn them (e.g . for each game - which is how they're paid), and not where they live?
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Re: Bears acquiring Foles for a 4th

Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:21 pm

IE wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:19 pm
Not to go down a rabbit hole - but don't NFL players pay taxes in the states where they earn them (e.g . for each game - which is how they're paid), and not where they live?
Yes, I think every state now has a "jock tax", so they end up paying taxes in each state they play.
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Re: Bears acquiring Foles for a 4th

Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:19 pm

Richie, I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on a bunch. The one thing I'd say though is that you're doing that classic bear fan thing too, where you are drastically overvaluing the bears as a destination. the bears went 8-8, missed the playoffs, and then did that thing where the head coach fires a bunch of underlings to try and save his job. we only won 2 more games than the jags! we have very little resources to make our team better this year and we're mostly just crossing our fingers.

one random dude swears we offered teddy more, but no one knows for sure. all we know is teddy didnt want to come here. the premise being that we're going to give bridgewater 20+ mil a year for 3 years and not start him? dubious.
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Re: Bears acquiring Foles for a 4th

Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:33 pm

The Cooler King wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:21 pm
IE wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:19 pm
Not to go down a rabbit hole - but don't NFL players pay taxes in the states where they earn them (e.g . for each game - which is how they're paid), and not where they live?
Yes, I think every state now has a "jock tax", so they end up paying taxes in each state they play.
OK that's what I thought. It isn't just jocks. When I was consulting for Andersen back in the day, I had to pay taxes in every state I worked. One year I had to file 7 returns! Sucked for me - but these dudes have accountants.
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Re: Bears acquiring Foles for a 4th

Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:41 pm

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Re: Bears acquiring Foles for a 4th

Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:35 pm

IE wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:33 pm
The Cooler King wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:21 pm


Yes, I think every state now has a "jock tax", so they end up paying taxes in each state they play.
OK that's what I thought. It isn't just jocks. When I was consulting for Andersen back in the day, I had to pay taxes in every state I worked. One year I had to file 7 returns! Sucked for me - but these dudes have accountants.

This is absolutely true. I live in Oregon but have some investments in Kentucky and Indiana and I have to file returns in all three states.

With Foles, he'll be taxed in whatever state he plays in for that particular game. And his personal investment account he can keep in Florida (or Texas for that matter) and not pay income tax as long as he spends more than 50 percent of his time there. Also, if in Florida, the property tax in Florida is a lot less for in state residents.

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