10,000 foot view of our offseason to this point

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dplank
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10,000 foot view of our offseason to this point

Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:31 am

Heading into this offseason, we had a lot of problems to address and not a lot of cap room to do it. Here's what Pace has done so far:

Coaching: Dumped almost all coaches on the offensive side of the ball and replaced them with: Lazor, DeFilippo, Castillo
Significant Cuts (loose term): Prince, Floyd, Long, Gabriel
Let go via FA: Nick Williams, Kwit, Chase Daniel, + more to come as they sign their deals
Restructures: Whitehair
Extensions: EJax
Re-signs: Trevathan, RRH
Additions: Robert Quinn > Leonard Floyd
Nick Foles>Chase Daniel and Mitch Trubisky
Jimmy Graham>Adam Shaheen

Remaining issues: RG, CB2, SS - this will have to be addressed mostly through the draft at this point. But Pace has been creative, so we'll see how it shakes out.

We're a better football team than we were a year ago.
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 5 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
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wab
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Re: 10,000 foot view of our offseason to this point

Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:31 am

I don't disagree that the Bears are better today than they were on Monday. But they HAVE to fix the OL or Foles will be back in a sling by week 3. The running game is also still a huge concern too. I think the only thing that doesn't make me want to completely give up on everything about a Foles-lead Bears team is the fact that maybe, just maybe...we can finally see what Nagy's offense really looks like.

The Bears have a 2yr window before the potential trip to cap hell sinks in, so we have that going for us.
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Richie
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Re: 10,000 foot view of our offseason to this point

Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:50 am

We just helped our cap situation with the Whitehair restructure. So, I'm hoping we address another need. It could just be for depth signings and draft picks, though.

I get the feeling that for our 2nd CB we're looking at the CFL kid (Tre Roberson) getting a crack at jumping right in and starting. Either way, we'll have to fill out the depth chart. However, that's my gut.
Year 3 Starting (updated yearly)

Brees (11-4): 65.5% (7th) 7.9 Y/A (7th) 27 TD (7th) 6.8 TD% (4th) 7 INT 1.8 INT% (3rd) 104 Rating (3rd)

Trubisky (8-7): 63.2% (18th) 6.1 Y/A (32nd) 17 TD (27th) 3.3 TD% (30th) 10 INT 1.9 INT% (15th) 83 Rating (28th)
The Cooler King
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Re: 10,000 foot view of our offseason to this point

Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:57 am

Richie wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:50 am
We just helped our cap situation with the Whitehair restructure. So, I'm hoping we address another need. It could just be for depth signings and draft picks, though.

I get the feeling that for our 2nd CB we're looking at the CFL kid (Tre Roberson) getting a crack at jumping right in and starting. Either way, we'll have to fill out the depth chart. However, that's my gut.
The Whitehair restrcutre sounds pretty minor. Arob extension or Hicks restructure are probably the only other main avenues, but I suspect things will still be tight (unless we find out Foles had a particularly favorable restructure)
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southdakbearfan
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Re: 10,000 foot view of our offseason to this point

Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:58 am

The Cooler King wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:57 am
Richie wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:50 am
We just helped our cap situation with the Whitehair restructure. So, I'm hoping we address another need. It could just be for depth signings and draft picks, though.

I get the feeling that for our 2nd CB we're looking at the CFL kid (Tre Roberson) getting a crack at jumping right in and starting. Either way, we'll have to fill out the depth chart. However, that's my gut.
The Whitehair restrcutre sounds pretty minor. Arob extension or Hicks restructure are probably the only other main avenues, but I suspect things will still be tight (unless we find out Foles had a particularly favorable restructure)
The Quinn contract structure will tell a lot as well. Reading otc language they say his roster bonus is fully guaranteed but prorated over the life of the deal. This accounts for his low 6.1 million cap hit this year in their calculation.
Last edited by southdakbearfan on Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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wab
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Re: 10,000 foot view of our offseason to this point

Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:00 pm

Richie wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:50 am
We just helped our cap situation with the Whitehair restructure. So, I'm hoping we address another need. It could just be for depth signings and draft picks, though.

I get the feeling that for our 2nd CB we're looking at the CFL kid (Tre Roberson) getting a crack at jumping right in and starting. Either way, we'll have to fill out the depth chart. However, that's my gut.
Agreed. I think the need at corner is being a little overblown. Fuller, Skrine, Toliver, Roberson, and then Joseph/Crawford/Shelly to round it out...isn't bad.

Safety is clearly more concerning. After Eddie it's just Kentrell Brice and presumably Denmark. Two more bodies are needed (I suspect Bush will be back plus a draft pick).

As far as the OL, it's my guess that they will see what happens in the draft, and if it doesn't shake out the way they hope, they'll grab a stop-gap vet afterwards.
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Re: 10,000 foot view of our offseason to this point

Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:31 pm

wab wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:00 pm

Agreed. I think the need at corner is being a little overblown. Fuller, Skrine, Toliver, Roberson, and then Joseph/Crawford/Shelly to round it out...isn't bad.
Its kind of bad, but most CB rotations are kind of bad. The Bears have been a little spoiled. Have to just hope Quinn and a healthy Hicks takes off a lot more pressure.

Still a small CYA signing with a vet on a low guarantee deal wouldn't be a bad hedge for Toliver/Roberson/Shelley. Like a Brandon Carr type maybe? Not sure how much he'll command...
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southdakbearfan
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Re: 10,000 foot view of our offseason to this point

Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:38 pm

Pass rush makes average cb’s look good.
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The Grizzly One
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Re: 10,000 foot view of our offseason to this point

Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:04 pm

I like Tolliver a lot. I see him as at least as good as Prince. Very possibly better with more experience. The pass rush should give him ample time to reach that...stay tuned
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Re: 10,000 foot view of our offseason to this point

Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:06 pm

I agree with the first 2 posts. Yes, we're better. If our OL is bad, it isn't going to matter much. While SS and to a lesser extent CB are issues. We absolutely need to find a serviceable RG.
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dplank
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Re: 10,000 foot view of our offseason to this point

Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:09 pm

While it's worth noting we only have 2 bonafide starters (plus a bonafide nickel) in our secondary right now, they are both pro bowl/elite players. So the "fill in's" can, and should be, lower tier guys. I agree with board sentiment that we're probably ok at corner, safety feels more pressing. And I'm betting we draft a G with one of our two 2nd round picks.

For all intents and purposes, the squad we see right now is essentially what I think we're rolling with in 2020.
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 5 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
Drone7
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Re: 10,000 foot view of our offseason to this point

Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:25 pm

>still want a rugged Y TE that can block thrown in the mix even though the mix is 11, so over the corona limit

> Toliver has earned first crack at RCB. Has looked ok, but he needs to get his head around quicker on downfield throws: would add a corner with size if Project Denmark hasn't impressed coaches

> for S, please don't sign a box SS...it's a coverage game--sign the affordable leftover that covers best

>they could use a backup NT?

>I'm a devout BPA guy, but Pace simply must draft ready players in the high rounds instead of developmentals...a versatile OL that can play RG off the bat and perhaps play outside in 2021...and a WR that can fly to open up the vertical game--Foles has a strong arm

>they also need to sign a vet back that can run inside and pass block
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AZ_Bearfan
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Re: 10,000 foot view of our offseason to this point

Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:35 pm

Denmark may be our dark horse at SS and I'm very OK with Toliver getting his shot at starting. I'd like to see RG and SS with our first two picks and pick up a speed WR later in the draft.
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The Cooler King
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Re: 10,000 foot view of our offseason to this point

Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:40 pm

AZ_Bearfan wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:35 pm
Denmark may be our dark horse at SS and I'm very OK with Toliver getting his shot at starting. I'd like to see RG and SS with our first two picks and pick up a speed WR later in the draft.
Seems like a big stretch, even as a dark horse. Maybe he's a dark horse candidate for 2021 SS.
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Drone7
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Re: 10,000 foot view of our offseason to this point

Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:01 pm

What basis is there for Denmark at S? Just being big isn't enough.
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Re: 10,000 foot view of our offseason to this point

Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:25 pm

Drone7 wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:01 pm
What basis is there for Denmark at S? Just being big isn't enough.
From his draft profile...

"Comes downhill with aggressive demeanor as tackler"

"Wide net open-field tackler"

"Consistent to close and wrap as finisher"

Big, good length, fast, experience in coverage as a college CB, sure tackler who enjoys coming downhill to hit...
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Re: 10,000 foot view of our offseason to this point

Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:40 pm

Love how everyone says Prince sucked, we cut him, now it’s a gaping hole.

Fuller and Skrine are good corners..Tolliver, Roberson(sp) and Duke are talented but unproven. I’d like to add talent at CB but we don’t have a glaring need.
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Re: 10,000 foot view of our offseason to this point

Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:40 pm

Love how everyone says Prince sucked, we cut him, now it’s a gaping hole.

Fuller and Skrine are good corners..Tolliver, Roberson(sp) and Duke are talented but unproven. I’d like to add talent at CB but we don’t have a glaring need.
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Re: 10,000 foot view of our offseason to this point

Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:43 pm

cblaz11 wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:40 pm
Love how everyone says Prince sucked, we cut him, now it’s a gaping hole.

Fuller and Skrine are good corners..Tolliver, Roberson(sp) and Duke are talented but unproven. I’d like to add talent at CB but we don’t have a glaring need.
Anyone who said Prince sucked was dead wrong. His salary did become tough to justify.
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Drone7
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Re: 10,000 foot view of our offseason to this point

Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:50 pm

BamaBear09 wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:25 pm
Drone7 wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:01 pm
What basis is there for Denmark at S? Just being big isn't enough.
From his draft profile...

"Comes downhill with aggressive demeanor as tackler"

"Wide net open-field tackler"

"Consistent to close and wrap as finisher"

Big, good length, fast, experience in coverage as a college CB, sure tackler who enjoys coming downhill to hit...
sounds interesting. I know NOTHING about the kid, but I remember the Brandin Hardin Experiment/Fiasco and he allegedly had some of the same traits--was drafted even higher--3rd round-- and quickly washed out because he had no instincts taking angles--he froze out there. Far as I know, Denmark was worked at cb on the PS last year, so he might be in the mix at RCB. Making the transition to S requires experience there learning the angles in run support and coverage--and that means a whole lot of new recognition aspects. He's probably been working at off-man and press coverage but that doesn't do him much good in coverage at S. Experience in a zone scheme would almost be better.
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Richie
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Re: 10,000 foot view of our offseason to this point

Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:27 pm

The Grizzly One wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:04 pm
I like Tolliver a lot. I see him as at least as good as Prince. Very possibly better with more experience. The pass rush should give him ample time to reach that...stay tuned
I feel like I miss something with Tolliver that others seem to get.

Every time I've seen him get a shot? He seems to get burned. He's big and athletic. However, his technique seems pretty brutal.

In the Dallas game, I was shocked they didn't attack him more. When they did it went quite well for them.
Year 3 Starting (updated yearly)

Brees (11-4): 65.5% (7th) 7.9 Y/A (7th) 27 TD (7th) 6.8 TD% (4th) 7 INT 1.8 INT% (3rd) 104 Rating (3rd)

Trubisky (8-7): 63.2% (18th) 6.1 Y/A (32nd) 17 TD (27th) 3.3 TD% (30th) 10 INT 1.9 INT% (15th) 83 Rating (28th)
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Re: 10,000 foot view of our offseason to this point

Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:56 pm

Drone7 wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:50 pm
BamaBear09 wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:25 pm


From his draft profile...

"Comes downhill with aggressive demeanor as tackler"

"Wide net open-field tackler"

"Consistent to close and wrap as finisher"

Big, good length, fast, experience in coverage as a college CB, sure tackler who enjoys coming downhill to hit...
sounds interesting. I know NOTHING about the kid, but I remember the Brandin Hardin Experiment/Fiasco and he allegedly had some of the same traits--was drafted even higher--3rd round-- and quickly washed out because he had no instincts taking angles--he froze out there.
My recollection in that Hardin failed because he was made out of glass.

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Re: 10,000 foot view of our offseason to this point

Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:01 pm

dplank wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:31 am
Remaining issues: RG, CB2, SS
We could use a swing tackle too.
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wab
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Re: 10,000 foot view of our offseason to this point

Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:02 pm

Drone7 wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:50 pm
BamaBear09 wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:25 pm


From his draft profile...

"Comes downhill with aggressive demeanor as tackler"

"Wide net open-field tackler"

"Consistent to close and wrap as finisher"

Big, good length, fast, experience in coverage as a college CB, sure tackler who enjoys coming downhill to hit...
sounds interesting. I know NOTHING about the kid, but I remember the Brandin Hardin Experiment/Fiasco and he allegedly had some of the same traits--was drafted even higher--3rd round-- and quickly washed out because he had no instincts taking angles--he froze out there.
Hardin’s career ending neck injury in the second preseason game of his career probably had something to do with him washing out.

Laying on the field paralyzed for over 10 minutes will definitely cause a player to “freeze out there”.
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Re: 10,000 foot view of our offseason to this point

Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:20 pm

I was referring to his maladapt, clueless play BEFORE the neck injury. But maybe you didn't watch him play?

As for it being "career ending"?

He went on to play short stints with 2 other teams before "washing out" to use your phrase.
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Yogi da Bear
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Re: 10,000 foot view of our offseason to this point

Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:56 pm

As I remember, he got the neck injury because he didn't know how to tackle and came in with his head down. Not a good thing for any player let alone a safety.

You know, one thing to think about is Shelly at safety. I got this idea because I saw a Bear roster a week ago that listed him there. Yeah, he's small for a safety, but he's physical and already plays inside CB. Doesn't seem like it would be that big a transition if we had to.

Another thing to think about is that we're going to need more linebackers, both inside and outside. We have Roquan, Danny, Iggy, Mack, Quinn,, Vaughters, Bonds, and Woods. Depth is weak there.
The Cooler King
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Re: 10,000 foot view of our offseason to this point

Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:08 pm

Yogi da Bear wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:56 pm
As I remember, he got the neck injury because he didn't know how to tackle and came in with his head down. Not a good thing for any player let alone a safety.

You know, one thing to think about is Shelly at safety. I got this idea because I saw a Bear roster a week ago that listed him there. Yeah, he's small for a safety, but he's physical and already plays inside CB. Doesn't seem like it would be that big a transition if we had to.

Another thing to think about is that we're going to need more linebackers, both inside and outside. We have Roquan, Danny, Iggy, Mack, Quinn,, Vaughters, Bonds, and Woods. Depth is weak there.
Depth is weak everywhere. Except maybe TE. But even thats deep with a lot of below average guys.
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wab
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Re: 10,000 foot view of our offseason to this point

Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:18 pm

Drone7 wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:20 pm
I was referring to his maladapt, clueless play BEFORE the neck injury. But maybe you didn't watch him play?

As for it being "career ending"?

He went on to play short stints with 2 other teams before "washing out" to use your phrase.
Yeah. Those whole 64 minutes of professional preseason football.
Drone7
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Re: 10,000 foot view of our offseason to this point

Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:23 pm

yep.

it didn't take long to see he wasn't a good S

and guess what?

his next 2 teams didn't see much either
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AZ_Bearfan
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Re: 10,000 foot view of our offseason to this point

Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:41 pm

Drone7 wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:01 pm
What basis is there for Denmark at S? Just being big isn't enough.
Transition to SS was mentioned by a few draft sites. Dude is an athletic freak of nature. He needs a ton of coaching, but from the interviews I've seen of him, he is very willing. Is he able? Nobody but the DB coaches know. That's why I said dark horse.

"His size and workout numbers are the rarest I've ever seen at cornerback and I've been doing this for a long time. The tape is rough, but just the chance to work with that potential to see what happens is worth a sixth(-round pick), I would think." -- National scout with AFC team
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