spudbear wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 6:43 am
My first thought was Pace bringing in someone for the Gabriel role. With Foles in the backfield you have a QB that can complete the +20 yard passes. Until Cohen is used more like Tyreke Hill the Bears do not have a WR to take the deep route. Maybe Miller? The rookie is unproven and as complicated as the Nagy offense is I doubt he sees much time on the field until at least halfway through the season.
Ginn has been on 5 teams, where he spends three seasons (except for ARI) and leaves: MIA, SFO, CAR, NO. With the problems the Saints have at WR depth I'm a little surprised he left the bayou.
Hey Spud, Cohen can't do what you want him to do bud. He's not nearly as fast as Tyreke nor is he a route runner like Tyreke is. Cohen is quick, and has great cuts/jukes, but not insane straight line speed/WR moves. Plus he's tiny. Cohen has made a lot of explosive plays, but they have happened from the backfield primarily. Nagy lined him up at WR a lot last year and it really, really cost him - he just isn't the same player out there. I think Nagy is seeing it, which is why we didn't draft RB - Cohen is going back there more and lining up outside less IMO.
Ginn provides insurance for the speedster we drafted. One, or both, of those guys would fill the Tyreke Hill position. Miller/Wims/Riley - none have the speed needed for it.
Last time I checked, Wims is 6'2". He's 220lbs, and I like his size too. But he's not 6'5".
Clearly I was wrong at 6'5". His wikipedia page says he measured 6'2 7/8" at the combine. I'll try to remember 6'3" going forward. But as you said, he's still a big dude.
That page also said he had 6 starts last year with 18 total receptions. Woof. He needs to pick it up in TC. He is on his R7 rookie contract with 2 years left. Might be a guy you could trade for another team's draft pick that isn't working out so well.
I had high hopes for Wims as well. But I think he's on the outs. I don't remember which game it was off the top of my head, but we ran the same goal line play twice in a row - both passes hit him right in the hands and he dropped both. Yes, he was well covered both times, but if you're going to be the big possession receiver you've got to make those plays.
Late round picks have to seize the moment. I think Wims may have missed his chance.
Mikefive wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 11:12 am
Clearly I was wrong at 6'5". His wikipedia page says he measured 6'2 7/8" at the combine. I'll try to remember 6'3" going forward. But as you said, he's still a big dude.
That page also said he had 6 starts last year with 18 total receptions. Woof. He needs to pick it up in TC. He is on his R7 rookie contract with 2 years left. Might be a guy you could trade for another team's draft pick that isn't working out so well.
I had high hopes for Wims as well. But I think he's on the outs. I don't remember which game it was off the top of my head, but we ran the same goal line play twice in a row - both passes hit him right in the hands and he dropped both. Yes, he was well covered both times, but if you're going to be the big possession receiver you've got to make those plays.
Late round picks have to seize the moment. I think Wims may have missed his chance.
Can you find clips of those? I'd like to see them.
I'm gone. Have a nice life. I'm clearly not wanted here.
I had high hopes for Wims as well. But I think he's on the outs. I don't remember which game it was off the top of my head, but we ran the same goal line play twice in a row - both passes hit him right in the hands and he dropped both. Yes, he was well covered both times, but if you're going to be the big possession receiver you've got to make those plays.
Late round picks have to seize the moment. I think Wims may have missed his chance.
Can you find clips of those? I'd like to see them.
Don't have time for videos right now - but I checked and the drops happened with 22 seconds left in the first half verses Dallas. Wims went off limping after the second one, and Robinson caught the TD on the next play.
spudbear wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 6:43 am
My first thought was Pace bringing in someone for the Gabriel role. With Foles in the backfield you have a QB that can complete the +20 yard passes. Until Cohen is used more like Tyreke Hill the Bears do not have a WR to take the deep route. Maybe Miller? The rookie is unproven and as complicated as the Nagy offense is I doubt he sees much time on the field until at least halfway through the season.
Ginn has been on 5 teams, where he spends three seasons (except for ARI) and leaves: MIA, SFO, CAR, NO. With the problems the Saints have at WR depth I'm a little surprised he left the bayou.
Hey Spud, Cohen can't do what you want him to do bud. He's not nearly as fast as Tyreke nor is he a route runner like Tyreke is. Cohen is quick, and has great cuts/jukes, but not insane straight line speed/WR moves. Plus he's tiny. Cohen has made a lot of explosive plays, but they have happened from the backfield primarily. Nagy lined him up at WR a lot last year and it really, really cost him - he just isn't the same player out there. I think Nagy is seeing it, which is why we didn't draft RB - Cohen is going back there more and lining up outside less IMO.
Ginn provides insurance for the speedster we drafted. One, or both, of those guys would fill the Tyreke Hill position. Miller/Wims/Riley - none have the speed needed for it.
When Gabriel was out last season, what did the Bears do for a deep threat? Seemed like not much of anything in particular. Patterson and Cohen should be candidates as they have the speed to be All-Pro PR's, but either Pace does not trust them (Patterson probably) or the Bears offense is not able to set up AND execute a deep pass (blocking and throwing accurately).
Cohen is not Tyreke Hill but he's the closest the Bears have to him. For the last two seasons we have practically begged Pace to get Cohen the ball in open space, but we have been disappointed. Not sure who to blame for it, but it seems like missed opportunities.
It is curious how Ginn stays some place for three seasons then bolts. I never said if it was a team or personal decision. I can't recall another player who has done something like that.
San Francisco has always been my favorite booing city. I don't mean the people boo louder or longer, but there is a very special intimacy. Music, that's what it is to me. One time in Kezar Stadium they gave me a standing boo.
When Gabriel was out last season, what did the Bears do for a deep threat? Seemed like not much of anything in particular.
Yea, that's pretty much the point. They tried using Cohen and Patterson, they just can't do what Hill can do - few if any can. Cohen outside was predictable and not effective. Look back at his highlights, how many of his big chunk plays happened lined up at WR? Very few, he's dynamic out of the backfield, esp when you can get him matched up with a LB. But outside, matched up against a CB, not nearly as effective.
So that's why they drafted Mooney and signed Ginn IMHO.
We have one of the most dynamic route runners on the team in Robinson. Ginn was brought in to contribute and he’s more than capable of doing so. IMO, the only way he’s not the 3rd WR off the bench after Robinson and Miller is if one of the young guys really steps up and makes it impossible to ignore them.
I will kill you if you cut me at the knees. You will drink with me when invited and stay til I say so. We only listen to American Music. I make men nervous with just my presence. I expect an apology if you hold. I throw linemen at QB's. Believe the Lore!
Just listened to a journalist who covered the Saint's on "Locked on Bears." He said that Ginn was the fastest guy on the field last year, even at 35. I think he'll be the starting Z receiver to begin the year with hopes that Mooney is ready to replace him next year at the latest. That means he'll stretch the field, catch those stupid wr screens, ard run an occasional jet sweep/reverse. If it's true he's still fast, he's exactly what we need.
southdakbearfan wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 6:55 pm
I could see Patterson being the odd man out if the young WR's step up.
I agree. If we had another major need on this roster, I'd be in favor of letting him go now and use that cap money to address the need. His value in the return game is so limited with the new kickoff rules it seems wasteful to spend 5M on that when Ginn can do just fine in the rare instances we get to see an actual KO return.
If there's a legit RG out there that can be had for that same 5M I'm thinking I'd like to do it. Still not comfortable there.
The wife and I agreed last year that Patterson was mis/under used. Good things seemed to happen, more often than usual, when he was on the field. Nevertheless, I thought he should be a cap cut this year, in part because Nagy didn't want to use him.
Usually, I like to see the Bears do right by their players, but they owe him nothing. Now, I'm in favor of hanging him out to dry. If he won't renegotiate, then hang on to him as long as possible before cutting him (can't see any team wanting him in trade).
cblaz11 wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 6:54 am
Patterson provides so much depth though...Makes that 5 mill a bargain
If your counting Patterson as a WR, I’m betting we keep 7
Robinson
Miller
Ridley
Ginn
Mooney
Wims
Patterson
You could see 7WR, with a slight chance of Montgomery and Cohen as your only 2 RB, and Patterson serving as the 3rd RB and extra WR. In that case I think they'd keep 2 RB on PS though. Could go 7 WR and 3 RB though. Beyond the 53 man though, the 46 active game to game is critical. At least one of those WR likely isn't dressing each week and it won't be Patterson.
Middleguard wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 6:24 pm
The wife and I agreed last year that Patterson was mis/under used. Good things seemed to happen, more often than usual, when he was on the field. Nevertheless, I thought he should be a cap cut this year, in part because Nagy didn't want to use him.
Usually, I like to see the Bears do right by their players, but they owe him nothing. Now, I'm in favor of hanging him out to dry. If he won't renegotiate, then hang on to him as long as possible before cutting him (can't see any team wanting him in trade).
I don't know about him being under used. He has never been more than a bit role player at WR and had one season where he produced a couple games at RB while playing for probably the smartest coach and best QB in history.
In reality he is a very fast, athletic KR that has ok running skills and crap WR skills.
Good point @The Grizzly One on his punt coverage. Forgot that with his speed he was usually the first guy downfield and probably was a big factor in reducing return yards.
Patterson is an expensive luxury, but if they were going to move on from him they would have already. I think he can do some unique things and the fact that he can play RB in a pinch gives you some roster flexibility. I also think you could spell Graham with him on occasion, just to create some match-up problems - he's big (6-2/238) and if they try to defend him with a LB, he can take it down the seam.
One part of Patterson that we don't talk about is his coverage on kicks...he seemed to be the first guy to hit the returner more often than not, and was able to really pop people.
dplank wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 9:49 am
One part of Patterson that we don't talk about is his coverage on kicks...he seemed to be the first guy to hit the returner more often than not, and was able to really pop people.
I'd be floored if Ginn doesn't make the team. He can still fly and is an expert at what he does - taking the top off a defense. He doesn't need a lot of catches to have a big impact on the game. He's been around and knows what he's doing. Between ARob, Wims, and Riley we seem to have 3 of the same guy. I'd be worried if I owned a Wims or Riley jersey.
