Bears decline Trubisky’s fifth year option

[BR0D1E86]

I highly doubt race played a part here, every other Pace 1st rd pick has been black. It would be very out of character and a nonstarter for any GM to think that way.

I just think Pace was enamored with Trubiskys measurables and upside and had his mind made up. Horribly stupid, Watson was a no brainer selection in my book, but that’s my guess at what happened.

It’s so far in the rear view now I really don’t care anymore. Good lord was I pissed that draft night though....

Just about word for word my thoughts on this one. I'm tired of rehashing that over and over again though, and this new twist on it doesn't make it any more interesting. I don't think there's anything there.

[BR0D1E86]

I highly doubt race played a part here, every other Pace 1st rd pick has been black. It would be very out of character and a nonstarter for any GM to think that way ...

I don’t want to beat this to death but “stud Running Back” or “monster Pass Rusher” is one thing. “Face of the Franchise” is something totally different.

Believe what you want but ...

I believe they just offered 20 million dollars a year to Teddy Bridgewater before trading for Foles. If you think that was to be in a quarterback competition and not the face of the franchise, you're crazy.

[IotaNet]

I don’t want to beat this to death but “stud Running Back” or “monster Pass Rusher” is one thing. “Face of the Franchise” is something totally different.

Believe what you want but ...

I believe they just offered 20 million dollars a year to Teddy Bridgewater before trading for Foles. If you think that was to be in a quarterback competition and not the face of the franchise, you're crazy.

And yet, Teddy isn’t here, is he?

[thunderspirit]

Seriously, @IotaNet, I don't think there's a "there" there.

If there was, Lovie Smith would never have been head coach. That's literally the guy who is the face of your franchise every time they hold a press conference and play a game.

[BR0D1E86]

I believe they just offered 20 million dollars a year to Teddy Bridgewater before trading for Foles. If you think that was to be in a quarterback competition and not the face of the franchise, you're crazy.

And yet, Teddy isn’t here, is he?

Which has what to do with what? He went somewhere where they offered him slightly more money and he didn't even have to worry about a competition. Are you saying it wasn't a real offer?

Trubisky wasn't chosen because of racism, he was chosen because a GM became enamored with his arm and athleticism and made the wrong choice.

[RichH55]

How many posts before we get to the Paper Bag test as to why teams wanted Maholmes over Watson

The Scouting on Watson led many teams to favor the one Black QB over the other.

This nonsense racist argument just keeps getting harder to make

[Yogi da Bear]

I really, really wanted Mahomes. I suggested this racism take a long time ago and got simply excoriated for it. Only my original take was much more subtle than those thrown out here. I don't think the "face of the franchise" had anything to do with it. Remember Vince Evans?

I think it was much more of a subconscious thing. The NFL is very much a historical, performance based league. Think of it. You're looking for your next franchise QB. It's not about being the "face of the franchise" but just from a performance based, historical perspective.

Think of the greatest black QBs of all time: Warren Moon, Randall Cunningham, Russell Wilson, Steve McNair, Cam Newton, Michael Vick, and Doug Williams. Of those, only Wilson and Williams ever won a Super Bowl. Now think of the greatest QBs of all time: Brady, Marino, Favre, Rodgers, Staubach, Unitas, Manning, Montana, Elway, Brees, Starr, and Young, to name just a few. Now look at all the failed black QBs chosen early: Vince Young, Jamarcus Russell, E.J. Manuel, Gino Smith, Jason Campbell, Akili Smith, Byron Leftwich, Andre Ware.... Subconsciously, it's hard to even compare the two simply from a performance perspective.

Thankfully, Russell Wilson is the precursor to breaking that mindset. And now, Patrick Mahomes and Deshaun Watson are obliterating it. There's no question in my mind that Mahomes was the most talented QB of that draft class. It was readily apparent on tape. Watson had all the intangibles, but was missing the straight up physical tools (like arm strength which is so obviously overrated). It's a shame the Bears didn't at least interview Watson to get a look at his intangible tools, but the real injustice here was done to Mahomes. He should have been our pick, and we'll live to regret it. He's going to absolutely break the mold of this subconscious stereotype.

[dplank]

Seriously, @IotaNet, I don't think there's a "there" there.

If there was, Lovie Smith would never have been head coach. That's literally the guy who is the face of your franchise every time they hold a press conference and play a game.

This should end the discussion IMO. Lovie Smith was the face of our franchise for a LOOOOOONG time, to think that we went back in time years later and magically became racists, to the point that we wouldn't draft a black QB, is just insane.

You don't need to look very hard to find tons of actual racism in the world, it's all around us and seems to be growing in recent years. But this is not one of those examples, it just isn't.

[Yogi da Bear]

Again DP, I don't think it has anything whatsoever to do with the "Face of the Franchise." Hell, the Bears were one of the first teams to start a black QB. They had a black coach. I think it has more to do with the subconscious historical perception of performance.

[RichH55]

Again DP, I don't think it has anything whatsoever to do with the "Face of the Franchise." Hell, the Bears were one of the first teams to start a black QB. They had a black coach. I think it has more to do with the subconscious historical perception of performance.

Or probably not at all - Since many teams passed on Watson too (and some preferred Maholmes - including the fact that Maholmes went earlier in the draft)

Pace also brought in Mike Glennon for good money that offseason - and brought in Chase Daniels to be a legit backup

So the simplest answer is that maybe Pace just isn't great with the QB position

I get the feeling he would have had Watson over Maholmes (OH NO RACISM ARGUMENT) - because Maholmes is like 500% better (probably infinite over 2019 Trubs)

[Yogi da Bear]

Thing is, it happens Rich. Remember who went number one when McNabb went number two? Tim Couch, justify that to me. I think there is absolutely a subconscious bias working based on a historical perception of performance. There have been so many failed black QBs chosen early, and by far the most and best franchise QBs have been white historically.

Thankfully, I think that Russell Wilson has begun to change that subconscious bias and that Watson and Mahomes will absolutely shatter it.

[wab]

Thing is, it happens Rich. Remember who went number one when McNabb went number two? Tim Couch, justify that to me. I think there is absolutely a subconscious bias working based on a historical perception of performance. There have been so many failed black QBs chosen early, and by far the most and best franchise QBs have been white historically.

Tim Couch was a record setting Heisman winner. He obliterated high school and collegiate records like few other QBs before him. His 1998 Season stood as one of the best QB performances until Joe Burrow last year.

Couch was pretty good for a couple of years, especially in 2002. But he was ultimately undone by injuries and...well...the Browns.

McNabb was a running QB who a lot of people thought preferred basketball. He was a complete and total wildcard in an era of pocket passers.

[Yogi da Bear]

Kind of like Watson being primarily a running QB and Mahomes coming from the "Air Raid" offense that left one questioning his ability to play in the pro game. Whatever excuses you want to make I guess. Particularly considering that Tim Couch himself came from a similar suspect "Air Raid" Offense and Trubisky pretty much played in the same type of offense as both Mahomes and Watson.

[dplank]

Yea....dude, this is extremely far fetched in today's NFL. 20 years ago you might have a point, but not now. If this played any part in Pace's head, he should be fired immediately. I put the odds at maybe 1 in 1,000.

He missed the pick because he fell in love with the attributes of one particular player to a fault....sounds like his first 3 first round draft picks doesn't it? He fell in love with Kevin White's physical traits, then again he just had to have Leonard Floyd, trading up to get him when far better players were available. And then AGAIN he does it with Trubisky.

I do think the Trubisky whiff changed him though. His next crack at a high pick he went with a highly productive player from a big time program/conference, who had better tape than measurables. Love boat incident not withstanding lol...

[wab]

Kind of like Watson being primarily a running QB and Mahomes coming from the "Air Raid" offense that left one questioning his ability to play in the pro game. Whatever excuses you want to make I guess. Particularly considering that Tim Couch himself came from a similar suspect "Air Raid" Offense and Trubisky pretty much played in the same type of offense as both Mahomes and Watson.

Being a running QB in the late 90's wasn't the same as being a running QB in 2016. Not in an era of Peyton Manning, Trent Green, Drew Bledsoe, Steve Beuerlein, Kurt Warner, Gus Frerotte, Brad Johnson, and Chris Chandler.

Hell, even Randall Cunningham (who was the MVP the year before McNabb was drafted, and the guy McNabb was most compared to) was strictly a pocket QB by then.

Being a pure pocket passer in this day and age is actually considered a bad thing. McNabb would have probably been the #1 overall pick in the last 10 drafts.

[wab]

As far as this relates to Trubisky... the Bears got it wrong (as of this very moment anyway). But you can't convince me it was because they wanted the white guy.

It's almost as big of a stretch as your "Roquan is probably bi-polar" assumption.

[RichH55]

Kind of like Watson being primarily a running QB and Mahomes coming from the "Air Raid" offense that left one questioning his ability to play in the pro game. Whatever excuses you want to make I guess. Particularly considering that Tim Couch himself came from a similar suspect "Air Raid" Offense and Trubisky pretty much played in the same type of offense as both Mahomes and Watson.

Man - if we bring this back any further Watson wouldn't have been able to vote while at Clemson - then people might really have a point

Instead in today's NFL Winston went over Mariotta

Yogi you realize how long ago a reference Tim Couch was right?

You think HB still go real high and teams value Safetys who knock guys out rather than have range/coverage ability as a FS too?

You are going to hate how they pussify the game since Mike Websters days

[HisRoyalSweetness]

I just don't buy this racism suggestion, unconscious or otherwise. No GM would have passed on Mahomes or Watson if they knew then what they know now. It wasn't just the Bears was it? Seven other teams passed on Mahomes and nine on Watson. Pace got his evaluation wrong, just like many GMs before him.

Pace is not the only one who got it wrong on this particular occasion either. As Mark Potash over at the Sun Times reminded us just the other day, outlets that had Mitch Trubisky rated ahead of Deshaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes before the 2017 draft:

Mel Kiper (Trubisky-Mahomes-Watson)
Todd McShay (Trubisky-Watson-Mahomes)
NFL.com (Trubisky-Watson-Mahomes)
PFF.com (Trubisky-Watson-Mahomes)
WalterFootball.com (Trubisky-Watson-Mahomes)

Everyone was shocked that Pace traded up and took Trubisky, not because of the player but because hardly anyone had him pegged to pick a QB and the consensus was that it was a weak QB class.

Both the Chiefs and the Texans traded up a lot places to nab their QBs. Both Mahomes and Watson landed in far, far better situations than Trubisky did. Who's to say that they would have thrived in Chicago or that Trubisky wouldn't have performed much better if he had been drafted by a more successful team?

It's just another chapter in the debacle that is Bears QBs. We should be used to it by now.

[Yogi da Bear]

Yea....dude, this is extremely far fetched in today's NFL. 20 years ago you might have a point, but not now. If this played any part in Pace's head, he should be fired immediately. I put the odds at maybe 1 in 1,000.

He missed the pick because he fell in love with the attributes of one particular player to a fault....sounds like his first 3 first round draft picks doesn't it? He fell in love with Kevin White's physical traits, then again he just had to have Leonard Floyd, trading up to get him when far better players were available. And then AGAIN he does it with Trubisky.

I do think the Trubisky whiff changed him though. His next crack at a high pick he went with a highly productive player from a big time program/conference, who had better tape than measurables. Love boat incident not withstanding lol...

This is where you're not understanding what I'm saying. My point is that it wasn't a "conscious decision" on Pace's part. He didn't make an intentional decision to say, "I'm going to take the white guy." I think it was subconscious based in an historical perspective.

You can say that Pace preferred Mitchell to Watson because of his physical attributes, and you'd have a case, for although Watson was better with his legs, he simply didn't have the arm of Trubisky. And that might indeed be why Pace didn't even interview him.

But if you're simply talking physical prowess, nobody was even close to Mahomes. He had incredible arm strength and the ability to throw out of any platform. He had the stats, the records. He basically had it all but a slightly slower 40 with a much faster shuttle. He threw for 93 TDs to only 29 picks and ran for another 850 yards and 22 scores. Mitchell had only 41 TDS throwing and 8 running.

The only knock against Mahomes was the offense he played in, and isn't that typically the argument against a black QB coming out. The problem is that Trubisky ran a similar type offense at North Carolina.

I don't think that Pace consciously made a decision to take the white guy, but I think subconsciously he made that decision. He had visions of Favre and Rodgers. I think that there has been this subconscious bias, and I think that the respective performances of Mahomes, Watson, and Trubisky (as well as Russell Wilson) should shatter that myth once and for all. At least, we could only hope for.... But there's simply no way you can argue that Pace fell in love with Trubisky's physical attributes to the detriment of Mahomes. The miraculous plays you see Mahomes make in the NFL are the same ones he was making in college, ie. a flick of the wrist for 40 yards on the button.



That's why I wanted Mahomes so bad coming out. Heavy sigh.

[Xee]

But there's simply no way you can argue that Pace fell in love with Trubisky's physical attributes to the detriment of Mahomes.

But it's a million times more plausible than the theory that Pace is "subconsciously" racist. There is absolutely no evidence or support for that. You might as well say he picked Trubisky over Watson because "T" comes before "W" in the alphabet.

[UOK]

The race subject is a nothingburger. Watson is a liar. The Trubisky pick had nothing to do with the color of his skin.

[dplank]

Yogi, think it through man. If Pace subconsciously thought, based on historical bias, that he preferred a white QB....for real....would that minor tick in his brain be so strong that he doesn't even CONSIDER Watson? Doesn't even talk to the guy? MAYBE....and I mean MAAAAAAAAYBE, I could see your point if it came down to a tough choice between two guys, but Pace zero'd in on Mitch and never even spoke with Watson. That's more than a slight historical, subconscious bias Yogi. Much much more, it simply doesn't line up with reality. IIRC, you also believe that the only reason Trubisky didn't win the job at UNC was because he was white, no? Something about not wanting to upset people by benching the black starting QB? This is becoming an odd fixation.

Not vetting Watson was, in a football context only...criminal negligence by Pace (and FUCK YOU GEORGE FOR LETTING IT HAPPEN). For all Pace knows, he'd have fallen even harder for Watson had he taken the time to evaluate him thoroughly. It just makes no sense, and ultimately this will cost Pace his job AS IT SHOULD. I'm in no hurry only because I, like others have said here, don't want to keep pressing the reset button at GM or HC. But Pace has to carry this shame with him, and we as Bears fans just have to hope against hope that he learned a very costly lesson. He passed on two guys that I believe are both headed to the HOF, in favor of a guy who I believe will be out of the NFL fairly soon.

@UOK....Watson never accused him of race specifically. He just correctly pointed out that even though the Bears were clearly looking for a QB in that draft, and everyone in the world had 3 QB's listed as possible first round targets, somehow he never even got to speak with the Bears! He has a right to feel snubbed and to shit on us about it years later, we effed up hard.

[southdakbearfan]

All this aside, how many of those failed QB's listed previously, might have actually turned out to be something if they were put on the right team with proper support/coaching around them?

[Yogi da Bear]

DP, I think that Pace didn't interview Watson, because he felt that Trubisky had the better physical tools, certainly the better arm, and that Watson wouldn't have the intangibles to overcome that. That's why you interview, to discover those intangibles. I bet he would have felt differently if Watson was white and led his team to two championship games, winning the last one. You can't convince me that if Watson had been white, he wouldn't have at least interviewed him. I do believe that Pace subconsciously believed that Watson being black couldn't have the intangibles of Trubisky so there was no need to interview him.

And yes, I also think that Trubisky was kept on the bench at North Carolina because he was white and Marquise Williams was a very popular starting black QB while UNC was a hotbed of BLM activity.

I hate to say it, but I do think that race seems to be playing a bigger and bigger role in everything that happens. 15 years ago, I was optimistic that America was well on its way to a true "color blind society." But in the past 12 years or so, it seems like race has just become a bigger and bigger issue to the extent that it's almost become ubiquitous in Modern Day America. And everybody seems to suffer for it.

Just my take.

[RichH55]

Dplank,

Putting aside all this stupidity about Race here (OR Yogi's position that the Offense a guy played in in College doesn't matter (Trubs didn't play in the same one but whatever)

If you don't think the guy is your guy from the Film (Putting Aside the very real issue of Talent evaluation)

Why should the interview matter?

Would you think it would be smart practices to A) Bring a guy in for an interview you didn't love on Film (apparently) and/or B) Letting the Interview (and the intangibles you apparently get from the interview) OVERRIDE the tape study???

[RichH55]

And yes, I also think that Trubisky was kept on the bench at North Carolina because he was white and Marquise Williams was a very popular starting black QB while UNC was a hotbed of BLM activity.

At least the dumb racism tracks both directions

[dplank]

Dplank,

Putting aside all this stupidity about Race here (OR Yogi's position that the Offense a guy played in in College doesn't matter (Trubs didn't play in the same one but whatever)

If you don't think the guy is your guy from the Film (Putting Aside the very real issue of Talent evaluation)

Why should the interview matter?

Would you think it would be smart practices to A) Bring a guy in for an interview you didn't love on Film (apparently) and/or B) Letting the Interview (and the intangibles you apparently get from the interview) OVERRIDE the tape study???

I generally agree with you...but there are still reasons to do a complete eval on Watson. Smoke screening like you want Watson when you really want Mitch, for example. Also, just being super diligent when making what is the most important draft pick in decades for the franchise, who knows what might come out in a full on discussion with Watson? Would it override film? Highly, highly unlikely, but you do your diligence. And what in the name of fuck could Pace have seen in 1 season of good play from a middling program from Mitch that he didn't see while watching Watson shred up Alabama en route to a national championship? It just doesn't make sense. But I do see your point, if you're dead set on a guy, an interview with some other guy shouldn't make much difference.

[RichH55]

Dplank,

Putting aside all this stupidity about Race here (OR Yogi's position that the Offense a guy played in in College doesn't matter (Trubs didn't play in the same one but whatever)

If you don't think the guy is your guy from the Film (Putting Aside the very real issue of Talent evaluation)

Why should the interview matter?

Would you think it would be smart practices to A) Bring a guy in for an interview you didn't love on Film (apparently) and/or B) Letting the Interview (and the intangibles you apparently get from the interview) OVERRIDE the tape study???

I generally agree with you...but there are still reasons to do a complete eval on Watson. Smoke screening like you want Watson when you really want Mitch, for example. Also, just being super diligent when making what is the most important draft pick in decades for the franchise, who knows what might come out in a full on discussion with Watson? Would it override film? Highly, highly unlikely, but you do your diligence. And what in the name of fuck could Pace have seen in 1 season of good play from a middling program from Mitch that he didn't see while watching Watson shred up Alabama en route to a national championship? It just doesn't make sense. But I do see your point, if you're dead set on a guy, an interview with some other guy shouldn't make much difference.

I wonder how much the Smokescreen business goes multiple ways - though should be different for QB (I think we agree there) -

But teams pick guys they never brought in - all the time

And it feels like sometimes they LOVE a guy on Tape - and then don't bring him in on purpose because they don't want some other team to think they love him

Or with how paranoid the NFL is and how long the draft process is - I bet some teams hate a guy on Tape - and specifically don't bring him in (when its a player/position they are linked to - to TRY and get other teams to think they are trying to hide their interest

It's frankly all very exhausting

[mmmc_35]

This race talk is hysterical. Sure Pace picked Trubisky knowing he is an inferior QB and would get him fired, but he does have egg shell white skin and shitty facial hair. Never mind all the other factors or info. its clearly racist.

Seriously it's a fucking dumb arguement.

[Xee]

This race talk is hysterical. Sure Pace picked Trubisky knowing he is an inferior QB and would get him fired, but he does have egg shell white skin and shitty facial hair. Never mind all the other factors or info. its clearly racist.

Seriously it's a fucking dumb arguement.

Training camp can't get here fast enough. I think the offseason blues are getting to some people.