Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

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Teddy KGB
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Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Fri May 22, 2020 1:24 pm

https://www.nfl.com/news/myles-garrett- ... rs-of-2019

I really, REALLY can't wait to see what a line with Mack, Quinn, and Hicks can do. :drool:
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Yogi da Bear
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Fri May 22, 2020 2:13 pm

But one position group has taken on increased importance in the last half decade or so, which only makes sense when considering the rise of the passing game. Where should opponents invest their resources? In those who hunt the quarterback.


Huh? Last half decade or so? What?? Where has this guy been?

As long as I can remember, the most important positions on the field has always been (in order):

1. QB
2. Somebody to attack the QB.
3. LT to protect the QB

But yeah, I can't wait to see how stifling our defense is.
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Richie
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Sun May 24, 2020 8:43 am

He never said it wasn't important to begin with.

I would say CB becoming 1st or 2nd most important on D is the biggest impact of the passing game rise over the last decade, though.
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Sun May 24, 2020 10:03 am

He's an outstanding player...in a 4-3.

I know the majority opinion here is "Oh, no big deal, you just use him like this and this. Problem solved". But don't you think the last 3-4 team he wasn't very effective with has coaches that know at least as much about Xs and Os as you do? If they couldn't figure out how to make him as impactful as he is in a 4-3, maybe it's not as easy as you think?

Which version of Robert Quinn the Bears get is a huge wildcard for the upcoming season.
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Sun May 24, 2020 1:44 pm

Moriarty wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 10:03 am
He's an outstanding player...in a 4-3.

I know the majority opinion here is "Oh, no big deal, you just use him like this and this. Problem solved". But don't you think the last 3-4 team he wasn't very effective with has coaches that know at least as much about Xs and Os as you do? If they couldn't figure out how to make him as impactful as he is in a 4-3, maybe it's not as easy as you think?

Which version of Robert Quinn the Bears get is a huge wildcard for the upcoming season.
Quinn played only one season in a 3-4 and he was pretty darn good. He also played hurt, I do believe.

If we get THAT season from Quinn. That's a huge upgrade over what we had been getting from Floyd.
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Sun May 24, 2020 3:43 pm

Moriarty wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 10:03 am
He's an outstanding player...in a 4-3.

I know the majority opinion here is "Oh, no big deal, you just use him like this and this. Problem solved". But don't you think the last 3-4 team he wasn't very effective with has coaches that know at least as much about Xs and Os as you do? If they couldn't figure out how to make him as impactful as he is in a 4-3, maybe it's not as easy as you think?

Which version of Robert Quinn the Bears get is a huge wildcard for the upcoming season.
And this is why I keep on harping on this. You don't play him as a 3-4 OLB. You play him as a 4-3 RDE, playing in a 3-4. You play him as a standup 3-4 OLB, you negate his first step which is his best trait. You make it so we have to blitz to send BOTH Mack and Quinn. And are we really going to threaten to drop Quinn in coverage?

No, you want Quinn rushing the passer. You want Mack rushing the passer. So you put Quinn's hand in the dirt and have play just as he has when he's been most successful.

I don't believe we'll stand him up as a 3-4 OLB, ever.
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Sun May 24, 2020 4:32 pm

Yogi da Bear wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 3:43 pm
Moriarty wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 10:03 am
He's an outstanding player...in a 4-3.

I know the majority opinion here is "Oh, no big deal, you just use him like this and this. Problem solved". But don't you think the last 3-4 team he wasn't very effective with has coaches that know at least as much about Xs and Os as you do? If they couldn't figure out how to make him as impactful as he is in a 4-3, maybe it's not as easy as you think?

Which version of Robert Quinn the Bears get is a huge wildcard for the upcoming season.
And this is why I keep on harping on this. You don't play him as a 3-4 OLB. You play him as a 4-3 RDE, playing in a 3-4. You play him as a standup 3-4 OLB, you negate his first step which is his best trait. You make it so we have to blitz to send BOTH Mack and Quinn. And are we really going to threaten to drop Quinn in coverage?

No, you want Quinn rushing the passer. You want Mack rushing the passer. So you put Quinn's hand in the dirt and have play just as he has when he's been most successful.

I don't believe we'll stand him up as a 3-4 OLB, ever.
I wouldn't underestimate Chuck Pagano's stupidity Yogi. This is the guy that enjoyed blitzing corners off the edge while dropping Mack in coverage and rushing Stickman Floyd on the other side. As well as playing EJax in the box frequently as if he was Ronnie Lott or something, while letting Clinton-Dix roam the deep middle in his place.

IMO, our best front would be a 5-2, we've got two very fast, good cover LB's in that config and good luck running the ball. We could make teams one dimensional, and the pass rush with Quinn, Hicks, and Mack would be devastating.
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 6 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Mon May 25, 2020 3:24 pm

Yogi da Bear wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 3:43 pm
Moriarty wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 10:03 am
He's an outstanding player...in a 4-3.

I know the majority opinion here is "Oh, no big deal, you just use him like this and this. Problem solved". But don't you think the last 3-4 team he wasn't very effective with has coaches that know at least as much about Xs and Os as you do? If they couldn't figure out how to make him as impactful as he is in a 4-3, maybe it's not as easy as you think?

Which version of Robert Quinn the Bears get is a huge wildcard for the upcoming season.
And this is why I keep on harping on this. You don't play him as a 3-4 OLB. You play him as a 4-3 RDE, playing in a 3-4. You play him as a standup 3-4 OLB, you negate his first step which is his best trait.

I don't believe we'll stand him up as a 3-4 OLB, ever.
:?

So which of these are you expecting?
  • Hicks, Goldman, or Nichols benched
  • Hicks, Goldman, or Nichols in 2 point
  • a base 3-4 defense with 4 down linemen
  • Quinn getting limited snaps, playing passing downs only
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Yogi da Bear
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Mon May 25, 2020 4:23 pm

Rotation:

In Dallas, Quinn played 60% of defensive reps and, believe it or not, 14% of special teams reps (really stupid). I don't expect those special teams reps at all, but I expect similar numbers on defense. Hicks went from 85% in '18 to 74% in '17. I expect he may go down a bit more in snap counts. Want to keep him fresh. Bilal and Goldman both had low 40% defensive snaps. I expect that will be about the same.

Conversely, Mingo went from 47% in Indy in '17 to 52% in '18 in Seattle to 7% in Houston last year. I expect that number to go back up to about 30-40% or more with us.

Again, if you want to rush Mack and Quinn at the same time, we in the HELL would you stand them BOTH up as OLBs and effectively have to blitz every time you want to send them both? That's not smart. So you play Quinn at the position he's most comfortable with--a 4-3 RDE. And you let the rest of the defense adjust around him.
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Mon May 25, 2020 6:04 pm

Why would you think Mingo's snap count would go up here?

Don't forget we traded up in the 5th (?) to grab a guy to - hopefully - play that 3rd OLB role
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Tue May 26, 2020 9:43 am

If Quinn plays 70% of our snaps, and we play nickel more than 50% of the time, aren't we only having to worry about 20% here at most? And, even if he's OLB on a particular play, why can't he still have his hand in the dirt? I get that he may occasionally have to drop in coverage, but you can still do that (not as effectively but it does add a disguise element).

Outside of not trusting Pagano to handle this right, I just don't think this will be a big problem. Let the man play how he plays best, and most of the time that's how it works out naturally anyways and in the infrequent instances where he's "out of position", just let him line up hand down if that's how he plays best.

And agree on Mingo, maybe he comes in when Quinn goes out that 30% of the time specifically when the play design calls for a stand up OLB? And Gibson is more backup pass rush insurance for Mack/Quinn? I dunno...
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Tue May 26, 2020 11:03 am

Last year Mack and Floyd played 86% and 84% of defensive snaps.

Quinn is tied for the 2nd highest avg contract on the entire team.

Paying him that much to come in and play 60% of the reps doesn't thrill me.
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Tue May 26, 2020 1:18 pm

The Bears have been pulling one of the linemen (namely Goldman or RRH/Nichols) out in the nickel since Fangio got here and they switched to a 3-4. Quinn and Mack are going to be on the field in nickel formations, you don't pull one of your best pass rushers out on a passing down, that is just foolish. Our OLBs need to set the edge and rush the passer, the ILBs are to clean up the running game. They essentially play a 5-2 in regular formation and a 4-2 in nickel.
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Tue May 26, 2020 2:03 pm

RichH55 wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 6:04 pm
Why would you think Mingo's snap count would go up here?

Don't forget we traded up in the 5th (?) to grab a guy to - hopefully - play that 3rd OLB role
Because the last time Mingo played for Pagano in Indy, he played 47% of defensive snaps. I think he was brought in to play more than special teams (although that will be a huge role for him as well).

Gipson is a really raw rookie who has never played as an OLB. I expect what time he gets will be spelling Quinn as a pass rushing DE, until he feels more comfortable at OLB. I expect Vaughters and Irving to spell Mingo in game in that second OLB role.
Moriarty wrote: Last year Mack and Floyd played 86% and 84% of defensive snaps.

Quinn is tied for the 2nd highest avg contract on the entire team.

Paying him that much to come in and play 60% of the reps doesn't thrill me.
Quinn hasn't played more than 60% of defensive snaps in six years. Wouldn't expect much more than that from him.
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Tue May 26, 2020 10:33 pm

Mingo only played that in Indy because they had Iffy OLB talent - and Simon only played 9 games that Year -

It wasn't earned playing Time - and he has next to nothing in the way of Pass Rushing moves

His snaps have been trending down since then - and three teams including Indy let him walk (for not much money)

And the Bears traded up to get a guy to be the 3rd OLB

I just don't see it there - especially since you aren't even factoring in injury to get to the number
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Wed May 27, 2020 6:08 am

Mingo is here to push Irving and Vaughters. If you want to gauge his snaps look at the snaps of Aaron Lynch from the last two years. If he does not beat out Irving or Vaughters he will not be on the roster Week 1.
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Wed May 27, 2020 9:17 am

Z Bear wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 6:08 am
Mingo is here to push Irving and Vaughters. If you want to gauge his snaps look at the snaps of Aaron Lynch from the last two years. If he does not beat out Irving or Vaughters he will not be on the roster Week 1.
There is a chance none of those guys are on the roster too - I think he might be more competing in Special Teams than anything
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Wed May 27, 2020 11:09 am

You guys are getting way too hung up on the "base" formation. The concept if a base formation is pretty much dead. The Bears base may be 3-4 but it's probably going to be more of a 4-3 Under - considering the Bears run a lot of 4-3, 3-4, and 5-2 concepts already. That should fit what Quinn does well with him being down and Mack standing up.

That's not to say you'll never see Quinn standing up...because you absolutely will.
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Wed May 27, 2020 3:29 pm

RichH55 wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 6:04 pm
Don't forget we traded up in the 5th (?) to grab a guy to - hopefully - play that 3rd OLB role
Eventually, but not this season. He's a 5th round pick in a year when he's had none of the usual off-season work.

From yesterday's Chicago Tribune article on Gipson:
ESPN analyst Rene Ingoglia who was on the broadcast team for a Tulsa game each of the last two seasons. “He’s kind of raw, so he’s still learning, but he’s got a great first step off the edge, and that’s phenomenal. Once he learns a couple moves, he’s gonna be a great selection for the Bears."
...
Now the Bears hope he lives up to those aspirations, and the advantage is that he has time to get there. The team certainly doesn’t need him to start over Mack and Quinn and isn’t depending on him to immediately be a second-stringer, either. Gipson should get a chance to grow slowly, and if he progresses the way he did at Tulsa, landing him in the fifth round will be a steal for the Bears.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2020 ... ifth-round
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Wed May 27, 2020 3:50 pm

Agreed wab. Also, Mack seems to pass rush better with his hand down as well. Whatever we do, just let these two guys a) rush the QB and b) line up how they are most comfortable. Not that hard Chuck!
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Wed May 27, 2020 4:30 pm

Good grab HRS. That's pretty much how I had Gipson pegged. When you factor in that he doesn't know our system, isn't having the offseason, and has NEVER played standing up before, I see him spelling Quinn as a DE pass rusher.

Lynch played 34% of defensive snaps two years ago and 23% last year. Meanwhile, Floyd played 84% of defensive snaps last year, and Mack played 86%. So we lost Floyd, and I think we'd like to get Mack's snaps down some. He had 72% his first year here. Admittedly, that was him coming in with a new system without training camp, but I do think we'd like to get him more rest. With Quinn rushing, that's possible.

I really don't think that Mingo agreed to come here to play special teams. I don't think that Pagano brought him here to do only that either. I'm sure he sold Mingo on regular snaps. Mingo wants to earn another large paycheck by playing in our defense with the likes of Mack, Quinn, and Hicks, et. al....

You know, Floyd had 40 tackles, 3 sacks, and 3 TFLs playing 84% of the time last year. In Indy, when you say Mingo sucked ass, he had 47 tackles, 2 sacks, and 7 TFLs playing only 47% of the time.

I don't think you know what the fuck you're talking about Rich.
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Wed May 27, 2020 10:35 pm

Yogi da Bear wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 4:30 pm
Good grab HRS. That's pretty much how I had Gipson pegged. When you factor in that he doesn't know our system, isn't having the offseason, and has NEVER played standing up before, I see him spelling Quinn as a DE pass rusher.

Lynch played 34% of defensive snaps two years ago and 23% last year. Meanwhile, Floyd played 84% of defensive snaps last year, and Mack played 86%. So we lost Floyd, and I think we'd like to get Mack's snaps down some. He had 72% his first year here. Admittedly, that was him coming in with a new system without training camp, but I do think we'd like to get him more rest. With Quinn rushing, that's possible.

I really don't think that Mingo agreed to come here to play special teams. I don't think that Pagano brought him here to do only that either. I'm sure he sold Mingo on regular snaps. Mingo wants to earn another large paycheck by playing in our defense with the likes of Mack, Quinn, and Hicks, et. al....

You know, Floyd had 40 tackles, 3 sacks, and 3 TFLs playing 84% of the time last year. In Indy, when you say Mingo sucked ass, he had 47 tackles, 2 sacks, and 7 TFLs playing only 47% of the time.

I don't think you know what the fuck you're talking about Rich.

He's been a bust overall - Anyone who can't see that is an absolute fool (Or thinks Sam Acho is good at Regular snaps - which is to say the same thing)

Those aren't good numbers in Indy either - and that is the better case scenario . What the heck are you even talking about?!?? He got 2 Sacks - 3 Frigging years ago - and THAT is the hill you want to die on?

He signed for just over a million - Which is to say - Not that much for the NFL - that's not a guy you really have to talk into things - That's a guy happy to sign a contract

He's basically Sam Acho with higher draft status (and probably a worse guy because Sam Acho by all accounts was a great guy - Just not a good Defensive Football player)
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Thu May 28, 2020 11:15 am

Arguing about how much playing time in standard sets that Mingo is going to get, are you really sure that you want to bring up Sam Acho, Rich?

In the four years that Acho was a Bear, he played on 43%, 46%, and up to 60% of defensive snaps before he was injured in '18 and only played in four games! I said that I figured that Mingo would play in 30-40% or more defensive snaps. It seems completely idiotic to me that you would bring up a player who played in at least 40% (except for his injured season) and up to 60% of defensive snaps with the Bears to argue with that projected snap count. I don't know how you could be more counterproductive to your argument. As a lawyer, do you often bring evidence of your client's guilt or liability to light?

I used his stats from three years ago, because that was the last time he played for Pagano, when you said he basically sucked ass. Yet, he had better stats than Floyd did for Pagano playing nearly half the snaps. Two years ago, he actually STARTED 14 games for the Seahawks. Yet you want to use these facts plus the Sam Acho experience to claim that he's not going to hit my projected snap count?

:headbang: Okay, I'll go with that. I like it when people prove my case for me. :applaud:
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Sat May 30, 2020 12:02 pm

Sam Acho was real Bad at Regular Sets though - Him playing wasn't because he was good

And when teams found that out about Acho - He got the Mingo treatment - One year cheap money (Bills I believe?) and then Out of the League (It's Hard to be a Special Teams Only guy in this League)

Is this going to be like your Really Dumb take on Turnovers last year? ( I'm sure that's going full Mariotta where you act like it didn't happen)


Do you not get the point about ADDITIONAL Data (Call them 2018 and 2019 - as well as his whole Career - Mingo that is)
AND alternatives - When he was playing with Pagano in 2017 - (Which again - he wasn't GOOD - which maybe Pagano remembers?) the Colts had very, very little in the way of Defensive Talent

Bears have a guy named Mack - Who does everything in the World Light Years better than Mingo (I assume Mack even ties his Shoes much more effectively than Mingo)

Then they signed Quinn - for a ton of money - Now there are injury concerns here - BUT That was NEVER part of your Mingo argument (You think he is getting Snaps based on Merit for some unknown reason

Quinn also does everything better than Mingo - Not to the same degree that Mack does - but still across the board.

Now look at Situational stuff (varying up allignments, different Sub sets etc)

I don't think the Bears have the world's greatest ILB Depth - but that's not really where Mingo is competing for snaps anyway

Passing Situations :

Well Mingo is basically worthless as a Pass Rusher. The Bears 5th Round Pick this year - main potential strength - is Pass Rushing.

You could see a guy like Eddie Goldman come off the field in pure Passing Situations - with Gipson coming onto the field.

The other guys they are going to add? Probably more DBs/Pass Rushers. Guys who will lose snaps - Ones whose "best" attribute is Run Stopping.


Well- There are some clear run downs too Rich!!!! TRUE!

Of course, the Bears actually have good DL depth this year - So why would I bring in a OLB for the Snaps when I can get RRH and/or Jenkins or even Brent Urban in there? You know better options to stop the Run?

The problem with Mingo - he's not good at Football - That really cuts into the ways you can use him and thus the snaps he can get

But by all means triple down on a Bad Take
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Sun May 31, 2020 2:49 pm

So to prove that Mingo won't play at least 30% of defensive snaps like I suggested, you bring up a player who say is HORRIBLE yet played 43, 46, and then 60 percent of snaps until his injury shortened season.

Then you want to bring up Mingo's past which is that in two of the past three seasons he's played 47 (last time he played with Pagano) and 52 percent of defensive snaps, and then that the only time he played in less than 10% of defensive snaps in seven years was one year in New England four years ago and last year in Houston, otherwise he's played in more than 50 percent of defensive snaps three years, 47% once, and 25% once.

I rest my case. What's sad is you gave me this evidence yourself. Too bad you didn't have in your possession secret memos from Pagano to Nagy claiming he intended to start Mingo this season that you could reveal. That's the only way you could have hurt your case more.

You're so much toast in this argument that I'm done with it unless you want to bet that barring injury Mingo will play in at least 30% of defensive snaps this year. I'm willing. I remember how your last bet with me went. lol
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Sun May 31, 2020 9:39 pm

So this is going to be like the Turnovers again? Loud wrong - but not man enough to admit it - Fun

Sure - I'm up for the bet - What are the terms exactly?
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:09 pm

Quinn should play safety.
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:09 pm

RichH55 wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 9:39 pm
So this is going to be like the Turnovers again? Loud wrong - but not man enough to admit it - Fun

Sure - I'm up for the bet - What are the terms exactly?
Don't know the turnovers you're talking about.

Will it by like the Alshon bet that you couldn't afford to pay so I allowed it to slide as long as you expressly admitted on the board you were wrong. Which you did (only time EVER to me) and then you started walking it back less than a week later?

Here's my claim: "Barring injury to Mingo, he will receive at least 30% of defensive snaps this year." You can pick the stakes. Try to come up with something you can actually afford to pay will you.

Incidentally, one more thing on this:
Z Bear wrote: Mingo is here to push Irving and Vaughters. If you want to gauge his snaps look at the snaps of Aaron Lynch from the last two years. If he does not beat out Irving or Vaughters he will not be on the roster Week 1.
I mostly agree with this from Z Bear, but you can also throw Gipson into that mix that he's pushing. But he's also NOT looking at simply replacing Lynch snaps, he's also looking at replacing Floyd's.

In the past two years, Lynch had 34% of snaps go down to 23% last years as Floyd's went up from 75% to 84%. Even for those who believe Quinn is replacing Floyd, Quinn hasn't played more than 60% of snaps in the past five years, and he's never had more than 78% of snaps. At 30, I wouldn't expect to see Quinn's snaps increase much more than that.

I feel confident that Mingo, being very similar to Floyd in production, size, and skill set, will beat out the likes of Vaughters, Irving, and the rookie who has never stood up before and without a full offseason for those additional reps, though Gipson will probably replace some of those "down" pass rushing reps.

But give your best shot Rich and come up with something you can afford to lose. ;)

And anytime you feel like you can admit you were wrong in your argument with Trev over basic math--that the Ravens gave up more for Kyle Boller than we did for Jay Cutler, please feel free. A+B=C is NOT the same as A+B+C. ;) If you can't even admit that, you won't admit to anything when you're wrong, unless you lose a bet you can't otherwise pay.
RichH55
Assistant Coach
Posts: 590
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:23 pm

Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:53 pm

Yogi da Bear wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:09 pm
RichH55 wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 9:39 pm
So this is going to be like the Turnovers again? Loud wrong - but not man enough to admit it - Fun

Sure - I'm up for the bet - What are the terms exactly?
Don't know the turnovers you're talking about.

Will it by like the Alshon bet that you couldn't afford to pay so I allowed it to slide as long as you expressly admitted on the board you were wrong. Which you did (only time EVER to me) and then you started walking it back less than a week later?

Here's my claim: "Barring injury to Mingo, he will receive at least 30% of defensive snaps this year." You can pick the stakes. Try to come up with something you can actually afford to pay will you.

Incidentally, one more thing on this:
Z Bear wrote: Mingo is here to push Irving and Vaughters. If you want to gauge his snaps look at the snaps of Aaron Lynch from the last two years. If he does not beat out Irving or Vaughters he will not be on the roster Week 1.
I mostly agree with this from Z Bear, but you can also throw Gipson into that mix that he's pushing. But he's also NOT looking at simply replacing Lynch snaps, he's also looking at replacing Floyd's.

In the past two years, Lynch had 34% of snaps go down to 23% last years as Floyd's went up from 75% to 84%. Even for those who believe Quinn is replacing Floyd, Quinn hasn't played more than 60% of snaps in the past five years, and he's never had more than 78% of snaps. At 30, I wouldn't expect to see Quinn's snaps increase much more than that.

I feel confident that Mingo, being very similar to Floyd in production, size, and skill set, will beat out the likes of Vaughters, Irving, and the rookie who has never stood up before and without a full offseason for those additional reps, though Gipson will probably replace some of those "down" pass rushing reps.

But give your best shot Rich and come up with something you can afford to lose. ;)

And anytime you feel like you can admit you were wrong in your argument with Trev over basic math--that the Ravens gave up more for Kyle Boller than we did for Jay Cutler, please feel free. A+B=C is NOT the same as A+B+C. ;) If you can't even admit that, you won't admit to anything when you're wrong, unless you lose a bet you can't otherwise pay.
Turnovers - Really?

People posted all last off season about the Bears Turnover numbers were kind of inauthenically high (i.e. Lucky) - and regardless of the Switch from Vic to Pagano they were likely to fall just based on Luck regression

And you said - that's BS - if anything they should rise - (Note: They, of course, fell)

Glad you can be loud wrong (as per usual) then not even remember But maybe that's better than when you do your Mariotta or Matt Barkley dance where you do remember - you just weren't wrong despite All the evidence being in

(I'm still waiting to here - once - that you were LOUD wrong on Mariotta)


I could have certainly afforded to pay on Alshon - Do you even care what Truth is? I thought I had lost the Spirit of the Bet though not the Letter of it (See below) and you were gracious in victory

Incidentally when the Eagles won the Super Bowl that year - Alshon reached all his incentives and thus made 13.5+ - you do know that right? It's such a backdoor cover though - that I still lost the spirit of the Bet


I'll post more thoughts on Mingo that you can respond too (It's almost like a journeyman on a cheap deal won't get the same respect a Top 10 pick got, but ok)

On the Bet: I'm game - What are the terms

And what is the injury parameters - since you are telling me this is NOT an injury play, right? If Quinn missed half the season and Mingo actually makes the team - Then he could Backdoor his way into that % of snaps - But you'd have been wrong in Spirit

So what are the terms - If you want someone on the Board to hold the money - that's fine too
RichH55
Assistant Coach
Posts: 590
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:23 pm

Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:41 pm

On Mingo snaps:

You note that it's Lynchs and Floyds snaps - Ignoring that Floyd was solid at a variety of non pass rushing things - I'd note the below

Some of those Snaps for Lynch - Those were Hicks snaps (Lynch is listed at ProFootball Reference at 6'5 285 and they have Mingo at 6'5 235 - I bet the weight difference is Less than that - but still maybe you take my point there)

Last year when Hicks was hurt (and even Nichols dinged up) - RRH is already on the field and you don't have as good a rotation on the DL

Getting on to Situational Football and other odds and ends:

1)
Yogi - If it's a Run down and you are changing up personnel- You don't want to take Mack or Quinn off the field (Quinn is probably playing on the Line like you want then). BUT if you are adding a Front 7 Body (and/or replacing Quinn on those snaps)

Why would they Bring in Mingo rather than RRH (or Nichols) ?

2)
If it's a clear Passing Down - Why would they ever bring in Mingo? He is simply not a good player as a Pass Rusher

Even putting aside Mack and Quinn as really good in that department - or that should be the better part of Gipson's Game. - Why would you EVER want Mingo on the Field if it's say 3rd and 10?

Put in more Dime personnel - or a Vaughters type, etc.

If it's a 3rd and 10 - the last two players on the Bears Defense who should be getting snaps are Jenkins and Mingo


On Mingo - You get that he's 30 this season (Lynch was only 26 and had more "perceived" upside) and that Mingo is now firmly in the Journeyman category, right?


3). Why wouldn't most of these "extra" snaps - at least in Passing Downs or non-obvious downs - Go to the Rookie that they hope for good things out of?

Rookies /Young Players/ Draft Picks of the Current GM - Those are the guys that tend to get the benefit of the doubt (Extra snaps are "development")

4). My contention is that it will be the possibility of being a Core Special Teamer is the THING that lets Mingo make the team (your mileage seemingly varies)

But if you have a guy who is a core special teamer - unless there are injuries - teams generally try and keep that guy out of Regular sets for a variety of reasons. (some minor like health or being winded etc)

Though I think the main one is just - they both are Full Time jobs in week in terms of preparation -

So I think if he's going to make the team on Special Teams - that could cost him Regular set snaps

(*) I do see the other side of the argument in this way: If he is on Special Teams (though in a similar spot on the 53 man roster) - that would mean AT LEAST he's active on Sundays and not sitting in his street clothes. So while they might still limit the regular set snaps to save him for Special Teams - that's still MORE snaps than being Inactive




When you get into journeyman category - A few things happen
1) You Don't get much in the way of benefit of the doubt (if Gipson looks good - then getting a roster spot could even be an issue)
2) They don't need to use many snaps for either development or seeing if you can take a step forward - This is Year 8 - He is what he is

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