Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

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Yogi da Bear
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:50 pm

RichH55 wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:53 pm
Turnovers - Really?

People posted all last off season about the Bears Turnover numbers were kind of inauthenically high (i.e. Lucky) - and regardless of the Switch from Vic to Pagano they were likely to fall just based on Luck regression

And you said - that's BS - if anything they should rise - (Note: They, of course, fell)
Oh those. Of course I was wrong on that. Never said I wasn't and nobody took me to task on it, at least not that I know of. I was so disgusted with the reactions on the old board to the season that I stopped going on it in October of last year. It was like it became a bunch of Packer fans simply slamming the Bears. If somebody to me to task on it, of course I would have admitted I was wrong on it. But in all honesty, I probably wouldn't make that projection had I known that Hicks was going to go down. The far bigger error on my part was in believing that Floyd would get ten plus sacks.
Glad you can be loud wrong (as per usual) then not even remember But maybe that's better than when you do your Mariotta or Matt Barkley dance where you do remember - you just weren't wrong despite All the evidence being in

(I'm still waiting to here - once - that you were LOUD wrong on Mariotta)
Admitted I was wrong on Barkley, but I didn't know the extent of his injury either.

ALL the evidence is FAR from being in with respect to Mariotta.
I could have certainly afforded to pay on Alshon - Do you even care what Truth is? I thought I had lost the Spirit of the Bet though not the Letter of it (See below) and you were gracious in victory

Incidentally when the Eagles won the Super Bowl that year - Alshon reached all his incentives and thus made 13.5+ - you do know that right? It's such a backdoor cover though - that I still lost the spirit of the Bet
See, you can't even live up to the conditions of the nonpayment of the bet. Here's Alshon's contract:
2020 Salary Cap Charge: $15,396,500
% of 2020 Team Cap: 6.93%
2020 Cash Payout: $11,500,000
% of 2020 Team Cash Spending: 4.79%
2020 Cash to Cap Ratio: 0.75
Total Contract Value: $52,000,000
Annual Contract Value: 13,000,000
Position Ranking: 16/387 at WR
Fully Guaranteed Money: $14,250,000
The relevant portion is highlighted. The bet itself was specifically limited to the face of the contract. UTBEs were specifically eliminated from it. You lost BOTH the letter and spirit of the bet. But in typical Rich style, you can't even admit you're wrong when it's a condition for nonpayment of a bet. You have to walk it back.

You hear this DP. Rich will NEVER admit anything to you on Watson, regardless of what happens, so don't expect it.

I'll post more thoughts on Mingo that you can respond too (It's almost like a journeyman on a cheap deal won't get the same respect a Top 10 pick got, but ok)

On the Bet: I'm game - What are the terms

And what is the injury parameters - since you are telling me this is NOT an injury play, right? If Quinn missed half the season and Mingo actually makes the team - Then he could Backdoor his way into that % of snaps - But you'd have been wrong in Spirit

So what are the terms - If you want someone on the Board to hold the money - that's fine too
My terms are that Mingo will receive at least 30% of defensive snaps as long he doesn't get hurt (missing no more than two games). You might want to think of your end of the terms to avoid "backing into it." I would suggest similar injury contingencies for both Mack and Quinn. Stakes?

Incidentally Rich, anytime you want to explain your exemplary math about how the Ravens paid more for Boller than we did for Cutler, feel free. Maybe you could apologize to Trev in the process even though he's not here. I miss him. He was a good guy. Sent me some real good music too, including the Black Keys. ;) Thanks Trev.
RichH55
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:25 pm

Don't my taxes supporting Trev's hatred of having a real job do enough?!?!?

If Mingo gets cut before week 1 I win - And yes injury contengiecies for all

I THINK you should get a pro-rated win if Mingo say misses week 13 and on - but before then was averaging 30% of the snaps - I would still consider that a win for you

Im game for whatever of stakes - Donations to charity (politicially agnostic ones) or some of your new Wine (that doesnt cost a ton but overdelivers on value)

Sounds like fun actually
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:30 pm

And this was the actual Jeffry contract in question:

https://www.nfl.com/news/alshon-jeffery ... 0000791958

A bunch of that was incentives (ALL earned that year)

But I pretty clearly got the spirit wrong - So I had to admit such
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Yogi da Bear
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:02 pm

No this is the actual contract that he played under. 2017 was attributed to this contract. It's listed on BOTH Sportrac and Over the Cap that way. [url][https://overthecap.com/player/alshon-jeffery/101/[url] This is the contract he played 2017 under.

I'll put up two bottles of wine. Pinot Noir or Pinot Blanc. Your choice. Vintage 2009 or 2010. The Noir is the more expensive if I was to sell it. What do you offer in exchange?

We obviously have to finalize the deal too. I want to make it clear in very obvious language. This one I'll keep on my computer so I'll always have the actual terms and stakes going forward.

In your response about Trev, I take it you've finally realized that you were wrong about Cutler/Boller but just can't admit it. It is rather basic math.
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:16 pm

Yogi - I don't need the expensive wine - I fear it might be lost on me. I have been drinking some Syrahs and Petite Syrahs these days and enjoying them

Basically whatever works - I don't have tangible work product like that - Would love to donate to Habitat for Humanity in your name if I lose (or just send it to you - whatever works)

What terms seem fair?

I'd also note that I think we can be gentleman about it - if we trigger some eventuality that voids the bet BUT it seemed like one person had clearly won the bet otherwise - I'd want whomever the "non-winner" was to still pay up

EX - If Mingo is Hurt late in Week 13 and will miss 14, 15, 16 - but in the first 13 weeks he was at 40% of Defensive (non-Special Team snaps) - Pretty clear I LOST even if Weeks 14-16 makes it a push or even a win for me or the injury provincion applies

That make sense?



EDIT: Yogi read to bottom (BIG EDIT)

On Jeffry - He signed a 4 year extension in Dec 2, 2017 (Week 13) (4 years being 2018-2021).

The 2017 Contract was for $14 million BUT something like $4 million of that were incentives (Some quite easy to earn - but others like I believe there was literally one for Winning a Super Bowl - Which I mean Cmon - The fact that he "earned" that CLEARLY wasn't within the Spirit of our bet.

I had presented it as I thought he'd average more than 2017 offseason - even over a longer term deal - And quite Frankly: I was wrong

A backdoor cover or even win because the Eagles won the Super Bowl?

(*) EDIT : I went down a rabbit hole and found some of the incentives - and looks like he did well on TD but less some on Yards

EDIT: Yogi what was the bet for $$$ wise? Might I donate that in your name or another name you are comfortable with to Habitat For Humanity ( or another non-political Charity of your choice?)
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wab
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:59 am

Jesus. I take like two weeks off and you guys are still talking about Mingo?
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The Grizzly One
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:50 am

wab wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:59 am
Jesus. I take like two weeks off and you guys are still talking about Mingo?
Five years from now you'll see them arguing about Mingo.
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RichH55
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:10 pm

I will say this - Everytime I write his name I keep thinking "Remember he isn't the one that punched out the Horse"
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:03 pm

Telegram for Mongo
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Yogi da Bear
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:49 pm

Sorry it's taken my so long to respond, had some business to attend to.

Here's what I remember of the Jeffery Bet:

It started when you said we should slap the Franchise Tag on him. I said, "No, I don't think he's going to get that much, that he'll probably get between 10-13 million per." You countered that he'd get over 15. We then established a neutral zone where nobody would win. I can't remember if it was between 13 and 15 mill or between 13.5 and 14.5 mill. Doesn't really matter. We also explicitly talked about the ramifications of bonuses. It was decided that any UTBE bonuses wouldn't be counted but LBE bonuses would. The mechanism we provided for handling that was the actual salary cap ramifications as the NFL recognized that UTBEs didn't count against the cap while LTBEs did.

The actual salary cap figure for that first contract was 9.5 million. I remember laughing about it because it was even less than I projected:
Jeffery signed a one-year contract worth $9.5 million. The deal includes a $7.5 million signing bonus. In 2017, Jeffery will earn a base salary of $1 million in addition to the signing bonus and a workout bonus of $750,000 according to a report by USA TODAY’s Tom Pelissero.
https://theeagleswire.usatoday.com/2017 ... wizardry/

Even the second contract was within my parameters as it was for 4 years, 52 mill or 13 mill per. By either contract you lost that bet in both the spirit and the letter of it.

I remember that I put up two bottles of wine. I don't remember what you put up, but I was fine with relieving that debt if you explicitly admitted you were wrong on the board (which you did). And I was fine with that and wouldn't have even brought it up again except for commending you for your admission until you started to try to walk it back. That pissed me off. You lost that bet fair and square, and it was the ONLY time you have EVER admitted you were wrong to me.

As to the current bet, I propose that Mingo will have a minimum of 30% defensive snaps. If Mingo misses MORE than 2 games, the bet is voidable by me and if either Mack or Quinn misses more than two games, it is voidable by you. We don't HAVE to void it if we don't want. In other words, if Mingo misses more than two games but has more than 30% of snaps, I don't have to void it. Likewise is true from your end for Quinn or Mack. If either misses more than two games, but Mingo doesn't have 30% of snaps than you don't have to void it.

As to stakes, I propose this:

First, I think you should trade me a 100 dollar bill for two fifty dollar bills and then you should put up 200 dollars (the two fifties I traded you PLUS the 100 dollars you traded me back that I'm willing to put up). lol Just kidding. But you should recognize that logic as it's the same logic you used to claim the Ravens paid more for Boller than the Bears paid for Cutler. ;) Come on Rich, admit you were wrong there. It's been over ten years and it's very basic math. Your credibility would only go up by admitting it. As it is, your credibility is shot if you can't even admit your wrong when the very basic math is so apparent.

But as to the true stakes, I say we each put up 100 bucks to charity of the other's choice (although there are many charities I refuse to give to so clear it with me first and I'll do likewise for you). Habitat for Humanity would be fine for me if that's what you choose. For me, my mom is currently going through dementia so an Alzheimer Charity would be great.

Let me know.
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:27 am

Yogi da Bear wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:49 pm
Sorry it's taken my so long to respond, had some business to attend to.

Here's what I remember of the Jeffery Bet:

It started when you said we should slap the Franchise Tag on him. I said, "No, I don't think he's going to get that much, that he'll probably get between 10-13 million per." You countered that he'd get over 15. We then established a neutral zone where nobody would win. I can't remember if it was between 13 and 15 mill or between 13.5 and 14.5 mill. Doesn't really matter. We also explicitly talked about the ramifications of bonuses. It was decided that any UTBE bonuses wouldn't be counted but LBE bonuses would. The mechanism we provided for handling that was the actual salary cap ramifications as the NFL recognized that UTBEs didn't count against the cap while LTBEs did.

The actual salary cap figure for that first contract was 9.5 million. I remember laughing about it because it was even less than I projected:
Jeffery signed a one-year contract worth $9.5 million. The deal includes a $7.5 million signing bonus. In 2017, Jeffery will earn a base salary of $1 million in addition to the signing bonus and a workout bonus of $750,000 according to a report by USA TODAY’s Tom Pelissero.
https://theeagleswire.usatoday.com/2017 ... wizardry/

Even the second contract was within my parameters as it was for 4 years, 52 mill or 13 mill per. By either contract you lost that bet in both the spirit and the letter of it.

I remember that I put up two bottles of wine. I don't remember what you put up, but I was fine with relieving that debt if you explicitly admitted you were wrong on the board (which you did). And I was fine with that and wouldn't have even brought it up again except for commending you for your admission until you started to try to walk it back. That pissed me off. You lost that bet fair and square, and it was the ONLY time you have EVER admitted you were wrong to me.

As to the current bet, I propose that Mingo will have a minimum of 30% defensive snaps. If Mingo misses MORE than 2 games, the bet is voidable by me and if either Mack or Quinn misses more than two games, it is voidable by you. We don't HAVE to void it if we don't want. In other words, if Mingo misses more than two games but has more than 30% of snaps, I don't have to void it. Likewise is true from your end for Quinn or Mack. If either misses more than two games, but Mingo doesn't have 30% of snaps than you don't have to void it.

As to stakes, I propose this:

First, I think you should trade me a 100 dollar bill for two fifty dollar bills and then you should put up 200 dollars (the two fifties I traded you PLUS the 100 dollars you traded me back that I'm willing to put up). lol Just kidding. But you should recognize that logic as it's the same logic you used to claim the Ravens paid more for Boller than the Bears paid for Cutler. ;) Come on Rich, admit you were wrong there. It's been over ten years and it's very basic math. Your credibility would only go up by admitting it. As it is, your credibility is shot if you can't even admit your wrong when the very basic math is so apparent.

But as to the true stakes, I say we each put up 100 bucks to charity of the other's choice (although there are many charities I refuse to give to so clear it with me first and I'll do likewise for you). Habitat for Humanity would be fine for me if that's what you choose. For me, my mom is currently going through dementia so an Alzheimer Charity would be great.

Let me know.
Let me start with this: I was wrong on Jeffry (which I did post at the time too - as you have noted)


The Actual Cap Figure for the 1st Contract was not $9.5 Million that is not how the Cap works. The contract would have let him make $14 million if he hit every incentive

And when did Not discuss Bonuses (Which was the cause of the issue) (by this point in the CBA the practical difference between Likely to be earned and Unlikely to be earned was essentially nothing - Since teams can just bring money forward no need to do the if Player X blocks 9 punts games)

BUT here's where I was wrong on Jeffry a SECOND Time - Since the post where I was wrong was at the START of the 2017 season (it was clear by then I had certainly lost the Spirit of the Bet by then) - But I, for years, thought I had backdoor covered (Jeffry was pretty productive in 2017 BUT more importantly (or so I thought) he was HEALTHY and Eagles Won the Super Bowl (there were Team based incentives in there - among the more "Bogus" for purposes of this Bet)

So - I really thought - at least - he had gotten the money into the Push range - albeit in a very backdoor cover kind of way.

I also had no reason to go back and revisit it - I admitted I was wrong, etc. It was done. But for this discussion I actually did go back and look into every incentive that year - and while his Cap hit certainly wasn't the $9.5 million - it showed I lost the letter of the bet as well. So I was wrong there too.



Do you have a particular Alzheimers Charity that you prefer (have you done the research on those ? Make sure they are using the Dollars most efficiently?).

That is a most worthy cause.

Terms of bet seem fair enough - THOUGH have to be fair on the Mingo missing games part - Because I suspect Mingo might just get some Coach's Decision Sitting (which they could dress up as an injury). BUT I will leave that to you to decide what you think is the Spirit of the Bet there.

If Mingo gets cut in Camp - I think that's an easy win - etc.

Can spell out more things as necessary - But that seems Good overall

Thanks
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Yogi da Bear
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:39 pm

No, no, no. You don't get to do that. You know, when you use that phrase, "that's not how the cap works" like you're some kind of cap expert, which you aren't--not by a long shot, it usually means you're wrong about it and trying obfuscate issues. Not in this case. Not when this specifically negotiated in our bet.

Wish I had access to the old board, because we absolutely did bring up bonuses. We decided to include likely to be earned bonuses and not include unlikely to be earned bonuses. We agreed to do that by taking the cap hit based on the initial contract because the NFL itself automatically decides that--UTBEs are NOT included in the cap hit while LTBEs are. So that 9.5 million was the cap hit that Jeffery carried into the season. That IS how the cap works.

In fact, even if we went by your stance, Jeffery's cap hit for that contract was still 9.5 million as I don't believe he hit ANY of his UTBEs before that contract was renegotiated on December 2nd of that year. But in the end, it doesn't matter as he didn't hit the threshold even if you included all the escalators AFTER the contract was in force. So yeah, you lost both in spirit and letter and even under your own erroneous assumption of the bet.

As to Mingo, I think I presented as fair a bet as possible. I don't think that holding him out with a fake injury is a reasonable concern as he's only missed two games in his entire career, both in each of his first two seasons. Of course, I would also agree that if he's cut I lose, unless it's because of an injury.

Alzheimer's Association is a pretty decent local Chicago Charity that deals with both care and research, but I prefer the Cure Alzheimer's Fund which deals solely with a cure. https://www.charitynavigator.org/index. ... rgid=12603 I presume you want Habitat for Humanity?
RichH55
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Sun Jun 14, 2020 7:37 am

Those were all Unlikely to Be Earned Bonuses? - No. That's not true either. And no the Bet Never addressed Bonuses. Never. It was what his contract was going to be. And if you achieve the Unlikely to Be Earned Bonuses - You still get paid that money (*)

(*) Again Yogi - the differences between Unlikely to be Earned v. Likely to Be Earned Bonuses have largely disappeared in PRACTICAL terms at least 2 CBAs ago (**)

(**) 2017 would have been under the last CBA - and that one did away with the MAIN use - I.E. a Phony way to Bring Unused Cap Room Forward - An Accounting Trick essentially - Since the CBA in effect then just let you Bring it Forward without shenanigans


But either way - I lost the bet - Spirit and Letter on Jeffery. No question. Zero Question - You were right and I was wrong there.

Something apparently I get to hear on Mariotta in 2095 when this whole thing plays out - This could be his Cryo-Freezer comeback year!


On Mingo - Sounds good

I think there is some gray area in the Injury stuff - So have to take you at your word you would be Principled on that - If he is Day to Day or it's a pretty minor issue and he doesn't make the team - I would say that you lost the Spirit of the Bet there. (I mean if he blows out an ACL? That's a no brainer - Misses a day of camp with back soreness and then is cut? Eh.)

But sounds good
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Yogi da Bear
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:30 pm

I sure wish we had access to the old database, because we absolutely did address bonuses. I insisted on it, and I'll explain why once again.

First, I wanted the bet to be decided as soon as the contract came out. I specifically said I wasn't willing to wait around for maybe years to determine who won it. And those incentives in longer term contracts are seldom spelled out, so you wouldn't have had to pay out for a long fucking time. No way was I going to agree to that.

Second, the bet was for what teams were willing to pay him for what he had done as a Bear. LTBEs are based on the prior year's performance and would have been included in the cap hit on the initial contract. NLTBE bonuses are incentives that exceed what a player did his prior year. They are tying the contract to what his future performance is and not what it had been. I most certainly wouldn't have demanded you discount the LTBEs if the bet had gone the other way. Also, there was no way I was willing to lose a bet because they were willing to give him five million for winning the Super Bowl or becoming All Pro, and I explicitly stated that.

Finally, the bet was for what another team was willing to pay him per season. Jeffery's cap hit under that contract for 2017 was 9.5 million. That would NOT change. If he hit any of those incentives, those would be due on their next year's cap. So under this contract, the Eagles' cost would have been spread out over two seasons, not one. In fact, Jeffery never earned any of those incentives under that contract as the contract was renegotiated for he could actually achieve any of them.

As such, I absolutely insisted the reference frame was the initial contract. Most specifically, I wasn't going to wait for the contract to play out to collect. That was explicitly stated. And I know that you know that, or you at least knew then, which is why you admitted you were wrong as soon as the contract came out and didn't insist on waiting for its conclusion.

As to Mingo, I don't think it's likely that he's going to be cut since the Bears guaranteed nearly 900K of his 1.2 million dollar contract. My only concerns from an injury front would be if he misses a significant amount of time (like more than half of training camp and preseason) or he suffers an injury toward the end of preseason which might cause him miss a significant portion of the regular season. Again, given his past extremely minor injury history, I don't think it's a concern, but you never know.

As to the stakes, have you considered the trade of two fifties for a 100 with me then putting up 100 to your two hundred (including the two fifties I gave you). lol Or are you willing to admit you were wrong with respect to Boller/Cutler? Or are you going to continue to ignore it like you have for the past ten years? You know I'm not going to stop bringing it up until you do. lol
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:42 am

On Jeffery - it was the "initial contract" - Except that the Contract is the Contract - that doesn't change for 2017. Incentives may be in ANY contract - and they would certainly be part of the initial contract

These weren't things added in Week 14 or renegotiated, etc. They were all - for better, or worse - part of the initial contract

Try that with the IRS by the way - OH I met a Sales Incentive and they gave me a $50,000 bonus - that doesn't count as Income!!! Good luck there.


Also - What they were willing to pay him for what he did as a Bear? Really? You think that's how contracts work? You think that is how markets work?

It's not - especially for FA - Age/System Fit/ # of Teams interested/ Alternatives available/ Draft Prospects / Cap Dynamics Etc. Would ALL play major roles in what the contract is

Hell - personal preference of the player (which probably did for Alshon) would play a role


Again - on Cap Hit - He was only signed for 2017 for these purposes - if it had been a longer term contract we would have had to see that play out (Roster Bonuses presumably would have mattered then , etc.)

*Though I certainly love that you can't wait for a contract to play out to see how a bet on a contract goes - but Mariotta "FAR FROM OVER" just a scant 5 years into his career - Cool, Cool.

The Cap accounts for all Incentives - one way or another - If it was ever Paid to Jeffrey you absolutely have to account for it. (Similarly if there was a Likely to Be Earned Bonus that was not ultimately earned - that still has to be accounted for)


Of course- Again - What did I ACTUALLY Do when the contract came out? I said - Well, Even if he earns these incentives (and thus is PAID - i.e. Backdoor Cover)) - I CLEARLY was Wrong as to (at least) the Spirit (**) of the Bet - AND I posted -publicly as such (after coming to you to say that)

How was that not fair? Or me not being a man of my word? It wasn't discussed prior - but I worked within what we were disagreeing about generally I didn't want to be right or push because of a technicality - I Owned up (*)

(*) This wasn't Jordan Matthews or Sam Acho or Matt Barkley - where there won't be admitting you were wrong even though you clearly were

(**) I actually support your position that the Jury is STILL out on Mariotta BTW - I just wish you'd note A) It was foolish after his 1st NFL Game (where he was good) to say we HAVE our answer (when apparently 5 years isn't enough time) and that B) Which way is Mariotta trending? Does it look great for your side?

**Incidentally the how Spirit v. Letter part is why it was clearly noted that we had NOT discussed things like incentives - especially into granular detail - Otherwise I would have lost MORE than the Spirit of the Bet when he signed the contract
(Ultimately I was WRONG on both - but it did, indeed, have to play out)
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:42 am

We are on for Mingo - Injuries noted above - Sounds like $100 to the charity of the others choice (also noted above) (Unless you were wanting to do the Wine on your end - Either way is fine - just let me know) - 30 % of Defensive Snaps (not counting Special Teams in any way)

Any other terms I am missing on the Mingo bet?
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:11 pm

I feel like I’m back home.
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Yogi da Bear
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:07 pm

It was the initial "cap hit" based on the original contract. There's no way I was waiting for the entire contract to play out to collect. Sure wish I had access to the old board's data base to prove it. And I don't get why you keep trying to obfuscate the issue of LTBEs and NLTBEs. It was real simple: NLTBEs included all those bonuses the player didn't reach the previous years and weren't included in the cap hit and the LTBEs were those that had been reached the prior year and were included. https://frontofficenfl.com/2017/03/10/n ... scalators/ This was all discussed when we made the original bet. I can understand why you're ignoring it, the same way that you've been ignoring that Boller/Cutler argument for ten years--you simply hate to admit when you're wrong. Jeffery's cap hit on that initial contract was 9.5 million and it never got over that.

With this in mind, I want to specifically delineate the bet here so that I can copy it on my own computer if you agree:

I bet that Mingo will receive at least 30% or more of defensive snaps this year. This bet is voidable by me if Mingo misses more than two games because of injury. It's voidable by you if either Mack or Quinn misses two games because of injury. It should also automatically be voided if he's traded. I will lose the bet if Mingo is cut during training camp, unless that cut is due to injury--either he misses a substantial amount of time in training camp and preseason (more than 50%) or he suffers an injury towards the end of training camp which would have resulted in missing at least two games of the regular season.

The Stakes: If you lose, you will donate $100 to the Cure Alheimer's Fund. If I lose I will donate $100 to charity of you choice of which I approve (Habitat for Humanity is fine with me). Or I will give you two bottles of wine (this is actually worth considerably more than $100 on the open market). Your choice.

That's as well as I can delineate it.
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:12 pm

Rich, Yogi, just for the record. can you both agree that water is wet? :evilgrin:
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Yogi da Bear
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:24 pm

I can. I think that Rich might think it's Dry in Canada when it's ginger ale. lol
RichH55
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:19 pm

Yogi we on for Mingo or what?

Any terms that were missed or needed to be inserted?
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Yogi da Bear
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:20 am

I'm on if you accept the terms and stakes that I delineated in my last post.
RichH55
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:50 pm

Yogi da Bear wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:20 am
I'm on if you accept the terms and stakes that I delineated in my last post.
Your previous post in this thread was literally: "I can. I think that Rich might think it's Dry in Canada when it's ginger ale. lol"

It's not especially helpful

If you don't want to bet and just want to admit you made a mistake - that's allowed too :D
Last edited by RichH55 on Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RichH55
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:58 pm

Yogi da Bear wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:07 pm


I bet that Mingo will receive at least 30% or more of defensive snaps this year. This bet is voidable by me if Mingo misses more than two games because of injury. It's voidable by you if either Mack or Quinn misses two games because of injury. It should also automatically be voided if he's traded. I will lose the bet if Mingo is cut during training camp, unless that cut is due to injury--either he misses a substantial amount of time in training camp and preseason (more than 50%) or he suffers an injury towards the end of training camp which would have resulted in missing at least two games of the regular season.

The Stakes: If you lose, you will donate $100 to the Cure Alheimer's Fund. If I lose I will donate $100 to charity of you choice of which I approve (Habitat for Humanity is fine with me). Or I will give you two bottles of wine (this is actually worth considerably more than $100 on the open market). Your choice.

That's as well as I can delineate it.
I think the Preseason stuff is a bit nebulous and iffy but reasonable minds can disagree there - if he is able to be on another roster early in the season that would tell you more about the actual injury- But like I said it's nebulous and reasonable minds can disagree (I don't want to hear its like Matt Barkleys Shoulder which wasn't actually career ending)


So that said - I agree to the terms as they are stated - Feel free to copy and email (*)

(*) And there terms on the Trade? I mean if they trade him at the deadline because he is not playing at all and maybe fell out of favor on Special Teams is that really a push? (I mean I can't imagine he'd actually be traded in almost any case in season)

I personally will take the wine - though if I do - I will donate on my own to both HforH (Student chapter U of I) AND the Cure Alzheimer's Fund

Hopefully that would offset any additional value - plus give to two worthy causes anyway
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Yogi da Bear
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:14 pm

Sounds good. I'm just going to copy it. You can copy it if you want from the board.
RichH55
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:34 pm

Sounds like a plan

I really hope I'm right for 2 Reasons

1) That Wine sounds great

2) It means we didn't waste too many snaps on a Schlub like Mingo
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The Grizzly One
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:20 pm

Image
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RichH55
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Re: Per NFL - Robert Quinn was #3 in QB Disruptions in 2019

Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:37 pm

Grizz we won't have to hear about Mingo for a while now:)

At least not from me!

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