Look at the Possible Covid Helmets

The latest Bears news and talk

Moderators: wab, RING4CHI, Pagan

User avatar
dplank
MVP
Posts: 1065
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:19 am

Re: Look at the Possible Covid Helmets

Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:53 am

Yea, Covid is here for the 2020 NFL season, there's no chance that changes. The question is, how will they handle it? They've already dropped 2 preseason games and the HOF game, no loss there. But I'm concerned about the season being lost entirely, we're not out of the woods on that front.

MLB is going to tell the tale IMO, if they can pull off their shortened season and stay relatively incident free up in that first month from Aug to first week of September when football should start, then there's no reason to think that the NFL couldn't do the same. The NBA comp isn't valuable since they are going full Encino Man. But baseball will tell us if this can be done or not. Fingers crossed those asshats pull it off.
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 6 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
User avatar
IE
Hall of Famer
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 6489
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:46 am

Re: Look at the Possible Covid Helmets

Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:55 am

The challenge with comparing baseball is baseball can be played virtually without contact. I think the first baseman should be wearing a mask. And probably 3rd base. But the rest of the players are fairly distant, and being outdoors really low risk.

Football is another story. It's the worst sort of heavy breathing and shouting directly in each other's faces, with sustained exposure to the same players over & over. I DO think baseball will pull it off fine. And then football will start off fine. But then the nature of the pathogen is going to see it spike (positive tests) after 6-8 weeks no matter what they do. In my opinion the biggest question is whether they'll try to play through that inevitable spike, and just have teams that are hit hard by it deal with it like they would a series of unfortunate injuries to key players. But will they let a healthy team play a "sick" team?

This is just crazy to think about.

On the vaccine... even after the 3rd, large clinical trial (that usually takes more than a year), they have to spend a lot of time analyzing the data from the trial and determining dosage, dosage frequency, side effects and other stuff. Oftentimes they find bigger questions that come out of wide scale trials and do yet another round. I'm pretty sure there's very little chance of a legit vaccine in 2021 - one where the risks and side effects are known to a level of confidence. If I'm a pro athlete and someone asks me to take an experimental/trial vaccine, I'm going get advice from doctors who would warn of potential unknown side effects, and would probably be highly reluctant.

On the helmets, if they can figure out how to design a mask-like function that won't restrict intense athletic breathing requirements, that would be just excellent. I think that is more likely than having a vaccine ready. But how fast could they manufacture those things?
Run the Damn Ball
User avatar
dplank
MVP
Posts: 1065
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:19 am

Re: Look at the Possible Covid Helmets

Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:02 pm

Regarding baseball...there's no way to 6 foot distance in the dugout. And the baseball is changing hands constantly as well. The ump is barking out the count and stuff to every batter. Catcher/batter are close together, that touches on every player too. I don't think it's all that much different than football. Football is a little worse with the up close contact, but I think for both sports the key is identifying Covid positive players BEFORE they plan and not letting them play again until they test clean. Testing is the only way to manage it IMO, trying to manage it once they are on the field isn't really possible.

And again, I don't think the measure here is 100% safety, that's not achievable if they play or don't play. The measure is not making it MORE risky by playing, I feel like they can accomplish that.
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 6 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
Wounded Bear
Assistant Coach
Posts: 702
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:13 pm

Re: Look at the Possible Covid Helmets

Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:44 pm

Richie wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:36 am
Wounded Bear wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:19 am
Some very good points about spreading it to family members and coaches who may not be in peak condition. Fuck the NFL PR nightmare, I wouldn't even begin to know what to say to a player or coach who lost a loved-one for a game you play with a ball.

I think we need to ask the real question here. What if there isn't a vaccine for this virus? They have been working on a SARS vaccine (which Covid is in that family) for the last 10 years. Why do we think they will come up with one now? Or why do we think they will come up with one ten years from now? Not to mention that viruses are constantly mutating to survive.

I'm not saying "hey fuck it, just play the game. I'm bored." Disband the NFL for all I care, I'll be fine. But I think we're fools to think that since we all really want or really need a vaccine that one will all of a sudden materialize.
These questions can be answered with very basic use of the google machine.
So is your google machine broken?

So let me educate you because you need education on this subject:

The name of the disease is: Covid-19.

The name of the virus that causes the disease is: SARS-Cov- 2.

But don't take my word for it. Here's what my "google machine" pulled up from the World Health Organization website:

https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease ... -causes-it
Richie wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:36 am
SARS is a horrible comparison to COVID-19. Invention is born out of necessity. The SARS outbreak was contained in July 2003. Since 2004, there have not been any known cases of SARS reported anywhere in the world. We don't need a vaccine.
So are you seeing just how silly you sound to me?

I'm not comparing SARS to Covid-19, I'm saying Covid-19 is a derivative of SARS.

Do you even know what the SARS acronym stands for?

SARS stands for Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome.

Isn't it weird that the people suffering from Covid-19 are suffering from Severe Acute Respiratory problems?

Do you know the actual definition of SARS?

SARS: an acute respiratory illness caused by a coronavirus, characterized by fever, coughing, breathing difficulty, and usually pneumonia.

But don't take my word for it. My "google machine" pulled this up from Dictionary.com.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/sars

So you will see that my statement that scientists have been working on a SARS vaccine for the last 10 years and have been unsuccessful is the very same thing as them working on a Covid-19 vaccine since Covid-19 is in the SARS family in that they are both caused by a coronavirus.

Or maybe my "google machine" is just better than yours.

Richie wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:36 am
Not only have there already been trials for the COVID-19 vaccine. There's been positive data to report back from them.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/early-tri ... d=71564008
Yes, I have read about the early trials. But early trial testing of a drug to you means we definitely have a vaccine?

You ever wonder why Pfizer may jump the gun on announcing they have a vaccine even though they are in the early stages of a trial, Richie?

Why would Pfizer want to jump the gun on announcing a vaccine for Covid-19?

Hmmm. Do you think that announcement helps or hurts their stock prices? I would imagine Pfizer's stock prices jumped big time.

So you took from that article: we definitely have a cure for the Covid-19 virus!!!!

But what I read is (quoting from the article you posted):
"If this is successful and is rolled out in the scale that we hope it is, we could prevent a tremendous amount of harm from occurring...."
Another quote from your article:
"We need the regulatory approval to do so. But that is our plan."
MORE: What will a COVID-19 vaccine look like? Don’t expect a cure-all, scientists say
Another quote from your posted article:
As the trials continue, Dormitzer said they are also "tracking the evolution of the virus closely" to mitigate any possibilities of mutation that could potentially decrease the impact of the vaccine.
"You do see some mutation in the virus, but fortunately we've not seen any indication of mutations that would decrease the efficacy of the vaccine," he said.
That's the thing. Viruses love to mutate. It's how they stay alive. That's why we have a different flu vaccine every year. And have you ever noticed that you will hear people say, "damn, I just had the flu for 3 days. That flu shot didn't do a thing for me...." That's because mutations are a tricky fucking thing....or the dudes who put together the vaccination whiffed on a flu strain.

So I will hope that Pfizer or Oxford or China is onto a vaccine. But the only thing I've read is early trials and as a person who has worked for medical companies for the last 20 years, it has been my experience that a lot can go wrong with pharmaceutical medications, medical devices, etc. during trials (and these are early trials).

As a matter of fact, there is a lot that can go wrong even after they have been approved. And I would be very skeptical at the fast track approval process that these drugs are receiving in today's panicked climate.
User avatar
Mikefive
Head Coach
Location: Valparaiso, IN, USA
Posts: 3528
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:33 pm

Re: Look at the Possible Covid Helmets

Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:44 am

It seems like the skepticism about getting a vaccine is clearly correct. For whatever it's worth, a TV show I saw recently said that it normally takes several years to make vaccines and the process takes time. Nine women can't make a baby in a month logic applies.

I'm not a disease specialist and maybe this is a dumb point, but there has been significant talk that Corona has evolved into multiple strains. Is it continuing to evolve into others that we don't even know about yet? Is it safe to assume that whatever vaccine arrives will work on all strains?
Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".

Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
User avatar
LT2_3
Rookie
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:14 am

Re: Look at the Possible Covid Helmets

Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:37 pm

Mikefive wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:28 pm
That helmet may look cool. But it looks like it would be hot as hell and restrict breathing. Some guys wear Breathe Right strips to be able to take in more air. Restricting air will be really bad for players.
This was my thought too. I get dizzy walking around the grocery store wearing a mask. Evidently some masks give better airflow than others.
User avatar
Yogi da Bear
Player of the Month
Posts: 383
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:43 pm

Re: Look at the Possible Covid Helmets

Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:43 pm

Arkansasbear wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:40 pm
mmmc_35 wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:16 pm


Well, hospitalizations have not gone up drastically. So hopefully it wont have an impact.
I think the hospitalization will be the key number. Lots of the spike in overall numbers are due to increased testing so we are finding many people who never would have shown they had it.
As a corollary to that, since the original testing numbers were for those who were already sick and thus those susceptible to it, the mortality were artificially inflated. As more healthy people are tested and have are shown to have it, that mortality rate is decreasing rapidly. In fact, from what I understand, the mortality rate for Covid for younger people is considerably less than that for influenza. The key is to keep those susceptible from being exposed, like NOT forcing Nursing Homes to take in Covid patients as they did in New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Michigan. Just fucking stupid.
User avatar
dplank
MVP
Posts: 1065
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:19 am

Re: Look at the Possible Covid Helmets

Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:28 am

Update: New helmet design with mouth guard is going out to all teams for a trial run...

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/294 ... oronavirus
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 6 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
User avatar
wulfy
Journeyman
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:51 pm

Re: Look at the Possible Covid Helmets

Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:47 am

Picture of the new shield, per dplank's above post. ^^^^^

Image
Arkansasbear
Practice Squad
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:41 am

Re: Look at the Possible Covid Helmets

Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:31 pm

Yogi da Bear wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:43 pm
Arkansasbear wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:40 pm


I think the hospitalization will be the key number. Lots of the spike in overall numbers are due to increased testing so we are finding many people who never would have shown they had it.
As a corollary to that, since the original testing numbers were for those who were already sick and thus those susceptible to it, the mortality were artificially inflated. As more healthy people are tested and have are shown to have it, that mortality rate is decreasing rapidly. In fact, from what I understand, the mortality rate for Covid for younger people is considerably less than that for influenza. The key is to keep those susceptible from being exposed, like NOT forcing Nursing Homes to take in Covid patients as they did in New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Michigan. Just fucking stupid.
Avoid doing fucking stupid stuff is always a good idea. Just seems like some people can never figure that out.
RichH55
Assistant Coach
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:23 pm

Re: Look at the Possible Covid Helmets

Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:13 am

Yogi da Bear wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:43 pm
Arkansasbear wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:40 pm


I think the hospitalization will be the key number. Lots of the spike in overall numbers are due to increased testing so we are finding many people who never would have shown they had it.

. As more healthy people are tested and have are shown to have it, that mortality rate is decreasing rapidly. In fact, from what I understand, the mortality rate for Covid for younger people is considerably less than that for influenza.
Going to guess this is patently untrue (putting aside it looks like Covid can have long term health consequences while that's not particularly true for Flu)
User avatar
IE
Hall of Famer
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 6489
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:46 am

Re: Look at the Possible Covid Helmets

Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:06 am

RichH55 wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:13 am
Yogi da Bear wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:43 pm



. As more healthy people are tested and have are shown to have it, that mortality rate is decreasing rapidly. In fact, from what I understand, the mortality rate for Covid for younger people is considerably less than that for influenza.
Going to guess this is patently untrue (putting aside it looks like Covid can have long term health consequences while that's not particularly true for Flu)
You're right about that. They are also working hard to rationalize not being concerned about the increases in cases. IF the increased testing was indeed sort of a "hunt for asymptomatic cases" (which has been implied here)... the % positive rates wouldn't be increasing so dramatically. And the ICUs wouldn't be filling up. I've been having these conversations since April with folks, and my perspective may be a little bit more informed since my wife works at a hospital crushed by Covid in March/April. It changes your perspective when it "comes your way". So most of the people I was arguing with a couple of months ago (old college friends from Florida and Texas) have turned to crickets. Denying reality doesn't make it go away.

On the subject of playing with these visor helmets... it should help. Not completely though - and all the rules about quarantine periods and such are still unknown. But I'm growing increasingly bullish on the season happening, as we've learned a lot more about the relative safety of transmission environments. Playing outside especially (or maybe indoors with increased ventilation including man-made "breezes" on the field) is going to be safer that we realized. From what I've seen recently, transmission in outdoor environments with a mask (visor?) can be up to 20 times safer than indoors with no mask. So playing football outdoors with a visor may be a lot safer than sitting in a bar and watching it.

But the players still will need to be careful, and socially distance. Some will fail. Hopefully the fallout from that will be limited.
Run the Damn Ball
User avatar
dplank
MVP
Posts: 1065
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:19 am

Re: Look at the Possible Covid Helmets

Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:10 am

My suggestion is to pay attention to what hospitals, scientists, researchers say. And note that because it's research science about something brand new, and the information is gleaned from the scientific process, that the accuracy of their findings will continue to evolve and sharpen as they theorize, test, measure results, and repeat that process zillions of times over until they have it nailed.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/ ... vs-the-flu

If you are looking purely at death rates, it looks based on what we know at this moment, that Covid is somewhere between 2x - 4x more deadly than the flu + may have serious long term consequences (TBD but evidence is mounting there).

So based on this, I really do feel like a season is doable.
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 6 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
User avatar
The Grizzly One
Journeyman
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:09 am

Re: Look at the Possible Covid Helmets

Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:44 am

wrote:IE: "...I'm growing increasingly bullish on the season happening,..."

DP: "So based on this, I really do feel like a season is doable."
Thanks guys, I love the positive thoughts as in my ignorant fear I have been drifting the other. :toast:
Last edited by The Grizzly One on Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
CBfan refugee :pirate:
User avatar
The Grizzly One
Journeyman
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:09 am

Re: Look at the Possible Covid Helmets

Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:49 am

wrote: Yogi: "As more healthy people are tested and have are shown to have it, that mortality rate is decreasing rapidly. In fact, from what I understand, the mortality rate for Covid for younger people is considerably less than that for influenza. "

Rich: "Going to guess this is patently untrue (putting aside it looks like Covid can have long term health consequences while that's not particularly true for Flu)"

This time I'm with Rich. I don't study this stuff, but the eye test is saying to me it's the opposite of what Yogi said.
CBfan refugee :pirate:
User avatar
IE
Hall of Famer
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 6489
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:46 am

Re: Look at the Possible Covid Helmets

Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:09 pm

The death rate especially in the US is decreasing... that's good of course. The problem is the R0 of Covid is super-high, and the fatality is only the tip of the iceberg. When the hospitals get overwhelmed, the death rate soars (that's why NY, NJ, MI and other early states had such a high rate). I've posted it before... my wife saw people dying in the hallways at work, because there was no room at the ICU. It's a real issue - and now that the problem is more widespread the ability of FEMA to react with additional capacity is a concern.

There is also a lot of concern amongst scientists and doctors about the long-term effects on individuals who recover. I know of multiple people who have "recovered" (are negative) - but are virtually disabled by symptoms that remain. The point is we all need to be very careful about thinking something is "fine" only to learn later that we accepted a huge problem without understanding fully what we were accepting. Nobody really knows how this virus works and what it does... so the conservative bent in me says "beware".
Run the Damn Ball
User avatar
IE
Hall of Famer
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 6489
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:46 am

Re: Look at the Possible Covid Helmets

Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:13 pm

Grizz - I DO believe the NFL is going to accept the risk, and most players will play. Which selfishly makes me both happy and relieved, because football is the thing I'd miss the most by far.

But this season (and maybe next) will always have an asterisk by it ... because I guarantee this season we'll see some games won/lost and some team records that are just an unfortunate result of a group of players (QB room, Oline, Dline) needing to sit out for weeks. The teams that win this season may not be the best teams but the most careful.
Run the Damn Ball
User avatar
Yogi da Bear
Player of the Month
Posts: 383
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:43 pm

Re: Look at the Possible Covid Helmets

Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:24 pm

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... r-BB16Oaqb

And these are just ICU cases, not all reported instances. As more people are tested who don't even end up in ICU let alone die, the death rate of those infected must necessarily come down.

New Tidbit Too: something that affects both the number of reported COVID cases and the death rate. Apparently, those tested multiple times for COVID are reported as separate instances. So a guy who had COVID was tested ten times and was recorded as 10 different instances of COVID. This would have two effects: it would artificially raise the number of reported COVID case and it would artificially lower the death rate from such, as a the person surviving would mean he survived ten instances of COVID.

Personal Tidbit: one of my best friends here in Portland works at the largest VA hospital in the area. He told me that if anybody dies, for whatever reason, who has COVID, that instance is listed as a COVID caused death.
RichH55
Assistant Coach
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:23 pm

Re: Look at the Possible Covid Helmets

Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:39 pm

If only they tested for Flu too Yogi!

SMH
User avatar
The Grizzly One
Journeyman
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:09 am

Re: Look at the Possible Covid Helmets

Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:36 am

Yogi, that study was based on NY and Europe, Within that article was this link which paints a different picture.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/icus-full-pat ... d=71295417
CBfan refugee :pirate:
User avatar
Yogi da Bear
Player of the Month
Posts: 383
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:43 pm

Re: Look at the Possible Covid Helmets

Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:14 pm

Getting too political for me, so I'm just dropping it or it will just go 'round and 'round and 'round with nobody conceding anything and us all being dumber for having taken part in it.
User avatar
The Grizzly One
Journeyman
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:09 am

Re: Look at the Possible Covid Helmets

Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:39 pm

Yogi da Bear wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:14 pm
Getting too political for me, so I'm just dropping it or it will just go 'round and 'round and 'round with nobody conceding anything and us all being dumber for having taken part in it.
I agree.
CBfan refugee :pirate:
User avatar
wab
Mod
Posts: 20766
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm

Re: Look at the Possible Covid Helmets

Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:28 am

Just gonna go ahead and close this.

Return to “Halas Hall”