Crazy Trade Idea

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PapaSully
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Crazy Trade Idea

Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:55 pm

David Njoku has just come out as demanding a trade . What about the idea of trading Jimmy Graham and a late round draft pick(s) to the Browns for Njoku? The Browns need a TE but Graham is older and has a higher salary, which is why we would have to add a draft pick or two to the deal, but if they could eat up his salary and we get Njoku for a bargain for the 2020 and even 2021 compared to Jimmy Graham. We would have two young potential superstars (Njoku and Kmet), and more cap space. It probably wont happen, but I would like this scenario!
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Richie
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Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:04 am

Aside from other issues with this.

Jimmy Graham has a no trade clause in his contract. Which sort of ends this before it even begins.

As a consolation, I certainly would not have minded acquiring Njoku had he been available before free agency.
Year 3 Starting (updated yearly)

Brees (11-4): 65.5% (7th) 7.9 Y/A (7th) 27 TD (7th) 6.8 TD% (4th) 7 INT 1.8 INT% (3rd) 104 Rating (3rd)

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EricTighe
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Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:20 pm

Watch out for Graham. Even at his worst is better than anything we have ever had at TE. I am expecting big things from him for the next 3 or 4 years. We will see how his body holds up.
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Moriarty
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Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:25 pm

EricTighe wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:20 pm
Watch out for Graham. Even at his worst is better than anything we have ever had at TE.
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Richie
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Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:40 pm

EricTighe wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:20 pm
Watch out for Graham. Even at his worst is better than anything we have ever had at TE. I am expecting big things from him for the next 3 or 4 years. We will see how his body holds up.
"Ever" is pretty absurd seeing as we have had one of the greatest TE's of all-time in Mike Ditka. We also had a damn good one in Olsen. Marty Bennett made a pro bowl here as well.

However, I will concur that I think Jimmy Graham really has a comeback sort of year here. GB tried a barrage of different TE's there and none of them worked with Rodgers. I think he still has quite a bit left.
Year 3 Starting (updated yearly)

Brees (11-4): 65.5% (7th) 7.9 Y/A (7th) 27 TD (7th) 6.8 TD% (4th) 7 INT 1.8 INT% (3rd) 104 Rating (3rd)

Trubisky (8-7): 63.2% (18th) 6.1 Y/A (32nd) 17 TD (27th) 3.3 TD% (30th) 10 INT 1.9 INT% (15th) 83 Rating (28th)
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dplank
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Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:19 am

Back to Njoku.....

Apparently he could be had for a 4th or 5th round pick. Very talented guy stuck in a bad situation and hampered bigtime by injuries. I'd be all over this if I were Ryan Pace, this is exactly the type of risk/reward that he should be looking for right now. A 5th plus Shaheen, since Cleveland would be short a backup TE with this move, would be glorious.

How about this TE room? Graham, Njoku, Kmet, Harris. Maybe we keep Braunecker since he's so good on ST. That'd be killer.
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Richie
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Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:07 pm

dplank wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:19 am
Back to Njoku.....

Apparently he could be had for a 4th or 5th round pick. Very talented guy stuck in a bad situation and hampered bigtime by injuries. I'd be all over this if I were Ryan Pace, this is exactly the type of risk/reward that he should be looking for right now. A 5th plus Shaheen, since Cleveland would be short a backup TE with this move, would be glorious.

How about this TE room? Graham, Njoku, Kmet, Harris. Maybe we keep Braunecker since he's so good on ST. That'd be killer.
Why would you give a 4th round pick for a TE who will either:

A) Be irrelevant
B) Make Graham or Kmet irrelevant (Harris is our best blocking TE and separate)

Njoku only makes sense if we hadn't signed Graham. In reality, only one of those two guys could exist.
Year 3 Starting (updated yearly)

Brees (11-4): 65.5% (7th) 7.9 Y/A (7th) 27 TD (7th) 6.8 TD% (4th) 7 INT 1.8 INT% (3rd) 104 Rating (3rd)

Trubisky (8-7): 63.2% (18th) 6.1 Y/A (32nd) 17 TD (27th) 3.3 TD% (30th) 10 INT 1.9 INT% (15th) 83 Rating (28th)
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dplank
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Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:30 pm

I don’t trust Graham and we don’t have depth behind him. Harris and Kmet play the other TE position. And Graham is old, so Njoku could take over in a year or so if he revives his career here.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Njoku beat out Graham, he has much more big play potential.

Totally worth a 5th or even 4th, he’s a very talented kid.
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RichH55
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Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:23 am

Again - For those thinking the Graham contract was good or fair - Read the second post here.

Really insane
Arkansasbear
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Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:02 pm

Richie wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:07 pm
dplank wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:19 am
Back to Njoku.....

Apparently he could be had for a 4th or 5th round pick. Very talented guy stuck in a bad situation and hampered bigtime by injuries. I'd be all over this if I were Ryan Pace, this is exactly the type of risk/reward that he should be looking for right now. A 5th plus Shaheen, since Cleveland would be short a backup TE with this move, would be glorious.

How about this TE room? Graham, Njoku, Kmet, Harris. Maybe we keep Braunecker since he's so good on ST. That'd be killer.
Why would you give a 4th round pick for a TE who will either:

A) Be irrelevant
B) Make Graham or Kmet irrelevant (Harris is our best blocking TE and separate)

Njoku only makes sense if we hadn't signed Graham. In reality, only one of those two guys could exist.
If you get him for a 5th plus Shaheen, it may be worth it. You would have Graham being here for Njoku and Kmet. I think they can walk away from Graham next year and you still have the other two guys under contract for '21 (plus 2 more years for Kmet). Is it ideal, no. Would I have rather given up a 4th and not have Graham's contract, yes.

For a 4th it becomes a harder call for me.
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Z Bear
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Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:15 pm

Until we fix the offensive line I can't justify using any cap dollars or draft picks for a TE when you have a proven vet, the top rookie prospect (by most accounts), some decent looking other young prospects (Holtz, Hosted, etc)), a good blocker who knows the system in Harris, and 2nd round pick on his last chance in Shaheen. Then you have a guy in Braunecker who is probably making the team on special teams alone. You are already going to cut a guy that is most likely going to make someone else's roster in a backup role.

No mas on the TE position right now.
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dplank
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Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:33 am

Z Bear wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:15 pm
Until we fix the offensive line I can't justify using any cap dollars or draft picks for a TE when you have a proven vet, the top rookie prospect (by most accounts), some decent looking other young prospects (Holtz, Hosted, etc)), a good blocker who knows the system in Harris, and 2nd round pick on his last chance in Shaheen. Then you have a guy in Braunecker who is probably making the team on special teams alone. You are already going to cut a guy that is most likely going to make someone else's roster in a backup role.

No mas on the TE position right now.
I admit, it's hard to argue with this logic. Good post Z. My only counter would be that Njoku would bring something that none of our other 25 TE's have, big play/speed from that position. And apparently that's a big deal in this offense.
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Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:13 am

Arkansasbear wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:02 pm
Richie wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:07 pm


Why would you give a 4th round pick for a TE who will either:

A) Be irrelevant
B) Make Graham or Kmet irrelevant (Harris is our best blocking TE and separate)

Njoku only makes sense if we hadn't signed Graham. In reality, only one of those two guys could exist.
If you get him for a 5th plus Shaheen, it may be worth it. You would have Graham being here for Njoku and Kmet. I think they can walk away from Graham next year and you still have the other two guys under contract for '21 (plus 2 more years for Kmet). Is it ideal, no. Would I have rather given up a 4th and not have Graham's contract, yes.

For a 4th it becomes a harder call for me.

This is more where I come down - Much more than Z Bear's position (no offense) - What's it cost is KEY

The whole "we can't do X until we do Y" type argument tends to be Iffy generally (and in life) - As you are allowed to do multiple things at once (for one thing)

But the other is in terms of it as a Resource argument - Where it just doesn't make much sense IMHO

Njoku is like a 1.7 Cap Hit for the team that gets him - and let's say it's a 5th Round pick (If it's a 6th Round pick it's an Even BIGGER no brainer)

If you can fix the OL with that? Great. Why didn't you beforehand - and why is it hard to get another 5th or 1.7 million to do that?

Why do I have to choose is what I'm asking?
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wab
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Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:59 am

So as was mentioned, there's a no trade clause in Graham's contract. Also, the Bears just spent their top pick on a TE. Also, the Bears already have 37 TE's on the roster.
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Richie
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Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:27 pm

Arkansasbear wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:02 pm
Richie wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:07 pm


Why would you give a 4th round pick for a TE who will either:

A) Be irrelevant
B) Make Graham or Kmet irrelevant (Harris is our best blocking TE and separate)

Njoku only makes sense if we hadn't signed Graham. In reality, only one of those two guys could exist.
If you get him for a 5th plus Shaheen, it may be worth it. You would have Graham being here for Njoku and Kmet. I think they can walk away from Graham next year and you still have the other two guys under contract for '21 (plus 2 more years for Kmet). Is it ideal, no. Would I have rather given up a 4th and not have Graham's contract, yes.

For a 4th it becomes a harder call for me.
So, you keep Kmet inactive his entire rookie year? Graham/Njoku/Harris are our 3 active TE's in this scenario. Harris is sewn into a role as our best and only reliable blocking TE.

It just doesn't make sense because Graham/Njoku are the same guy, are horrible blockers, good receivers, and could only really play the "U" TE position.

Then, you just... have Kmet in street clothes every week unless there's an injury?

It really doesn't make sense. Again, it only does if we hadn't signed Graham. At the very least, if we had never drafted Kmet.
Year 3 Starting (updated yearly)

Brees (11-4): 65.5% (7th) 7.9 Y/A (7th) 27 TD (7th) 6.8 TD% (4th) 7 INT 1.8 INT% (3rd) 104 Rating (3rd)

Trubisky (8-7): 63.2% (18th) 6.1 Y/A (32nd) 17 TD (27th) 3.3 TD% (30th) 10 INT 1.9 INT% (15th) 83 Rating (28th)
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Z Bear
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Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:52 pm

Kmet has not played a down yet, he could end up being better than Njoku. Prior to the draft or signing Graham it would of made sense. Also throw in the fact the Njoku asked for a trade, Cleveland has not said anything about granting such trade and it becomes an even bigger fantasy discussion.
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dplank
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Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:11 pm

Richie wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:27 pm
Arkansasbear wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:02 pm


If you get him for a 5th plus Shaheen, it may be worth it. You would have Graham being here for Njoku and Kmet. I think they can walk away from Graham next year and you still have the other two guys under contract for '21 (plus 2 more years for Kmet). Is it ideal, no. Would I have rather given up a 4th and not have Graham's contract, yes.

For a 4th it becomes a harder call for me.
So, you keep Kmet inactive his entire rookie year? Graham/Njoku/Harris are our 3 active TE's in this scenario. Harris is sewn into a role as our best and only reliable blocking TE.

It just doesn't make sense because Graham/Njoku are the same guy, are horrible blockers, good receivers, and could only really play the "U" TE position.

Then, you just... have Kmet in street clothes every week unless there's an injury?

It really doesn't make sense. Again, it only does if we hadn't signed Graham. At the very least, if we had never drafted Kmet.
Not sure I follow this. Graham/Njoku would be playing U, Harris/Kmet would be playing Y. We will play 2 TE a whole lot, both should be viewed as "starters".

Kmet's path to playing time goes through Harris, Njoku would have little to no impact on Kmet. Kmet in "street clothes" is not a scenario here under any circumstance other than him getting injured. I expect Harris to play more early on, and Kmet to slowly take over as his blocking improves.

Njoku is a hedge against Graham, who is the only real U TE on the roster right now other than maybe Hoersted or Braunecker (both aren't any good, certainly not in Njoku's class). Holtz is another Y. So when you view them as different positions, it makes more sense IMO. Especially if you don't trust Graham to stay healthy and/or produce out of that critical U spot. I'm having a hard time getting excited about Graham.
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 6 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
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Mikefive
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Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:04 pm

One point that hasn't been directly stated here is that rookie TEs typically don't play much as rookies or are not very productive when they do. And it's not like Kmet is expected to be any kind of exceptional, where you need to get him out there right away and see if he's a difference maker out of the box, because he has such eye popping athletic ability or other attributes. He's a mid-R2 TE with college receiving years of 14, 162 and 515 yards. He's a guy who's much more likely to be a future contributor than a present one.

When you're talking about a team in win now mode, banking on a R2 rookie TE to be a significant contributor seems like a pretty bad bet. Thus, the concept of bringing in another guy at that position to be a contributor is arguable. Also, having a fleet of UDFA's at that position who could possibly develop is an awfully weak argument against bringing in a guy who has shown he can play when not injured.
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Z Bear
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Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:43 pm

Njoku Stats

Year Team REC YDS AVG LNG TD
2019 Browns 5 41 8.2 18 1
2018 Browns 56 639 11.4 66 4
2017 Browns 32 386 12.1 34 4
Career 93 1,066 11.5 66 9

This is the last year of his rookie deal, so you guys want to give up a draft pick for one year of that?
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dplank
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Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:28 pm

Just when you had me, you lose me. Not a good post here. He missed nearly all of last year with an injury, seems worth mentioning when presenting his stats last year. And he’s under contract for two years as his 5th year option was picked up.
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Richie
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Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:08 pm

dplank wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:11 pm
Richie wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:27 pm


So, you keep Kmet inactive his entire rookie year? Graham/Njoku/Harris are our 3 active TE's in this scenario. Harris is sewn into a role as our best and only reliable blocking TE.

It just doesn't make sense because Graham/Njoku are the same guy, are horrible blockers, good receivers, and could only really play the "U" TE position.

Then, you just... have Kmet in street clothes every week unless there's an injury?

It really doesn't make sense. Again, it only does if we hadn't signed Graham. At the very least, if we had never drafted Kmet.
Not sure I follow this. Graham/Njoku would be playing U, Harris/Kmet would be playing Y. We will play 2 TE a whole lot, both should be viewed as "starters".

Kmet's path to playing time goes through Harris, Njoku would have little to no impact on Kmet. Kmet in "street clothes" is not a scenario here under any circumstance other than him getting injured. I expect Harris to play more early on, and Kmet to slowly take over as his blocking improves.

Njoku is a hedge against Graham, who is the only real U TE on the roster right now other than maybe Hoersted or Braunecker (both aren't any good, certainly not in Njoku's class). Holtz is another Y. So when you view them as different positions, it makes more sense IMO. Especially if you don't trust Graham to stay healthy and/or produce out of that critical U spot. I'm having a hard time getting excited about Graham.
Kmet's path to playing time goes through Harris
Exactly, yes! This is why Kmet would be a healthy scratch if you sign Njoku.

Harris is the only plus blocker we have at the moment. You cannot jettison him or keep him inactive in favor of Kmet year #1. Both Graham and Kmet are liabilities blocking (just like Njoku). You would not trot out an active group that does not include Harris. So, which one are you listing inactive for Njoku? Graham or Kmet? You cannot trot out 3 TE's who cannot block.
Njoku is a hedge against Graham
So, you give a 4th round pick for a backup? What the hell?

I mean, by this logic. Sure! Let's trade for 1st round talents with big potential to be backups at every position!

I would love to have a "hedge" like Njoku at EVERY position. But that's not how this works. lol
I'm having a hard time getting excited about Graham.
What's your point? I'm not defending the signing in this particular thread. I'm simply saying that it happened and you cannot erase it. It's too late. He's here and we're paying him 8 mil per.
So when you view them as different positions
I seem to be the only one doing this. This "Njoku" stuff is one of the most asinine concepts I've read to actually get any sort of traction on here. I can't believe this is a semi-thing.
Year 3 Starting (updated yearly)

Brees (11-4): 65.5% (7th) 7.9 Y/A (7th) 27 TD (7th) 6.8 TD% (4th) 7 INT 1.8 INT% (3rd) 104 Rating (3rd)

Trubisky (8-7): 63.2% (18th) 6.1 Y/A (32nd) 17 TD (27th) 3.3 TD% (30th) 10 INT 1.9 INT% (15th) 83 Rating (28th)
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Richie
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Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:11 pm

dplank wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:28 pm
Just when you had me, you lose me. Not a good post here. He missed nearly all of last year with an injury, seems worth mentioning when presenting his stats last year. And he’s under contract for two years as his 5th year option was picked up.
It doesn't have to be mentioned. It's obvious. He had 5 catches for 41 yards. We all understand he was injured.

I think the point is that there's no track record of him being overly good prior to last year.

Nevertheless, I digress, as it's not really apart of my stance here.
Year 3 Starting (updated yearly)

Brees (11-4): 65.5% (7th) 7.9 Y/A (7th) 27 TD (7th) 6.8 TD% (4th) 7 INT 1.8 INT% (3rd) 104 Rating (3rd)

Trubisky (8-7): 63.2% (18th) 6.1 Y/A (32nd) 17 TD (27th) 3.3 TD% (30th) 10 INT 1.9 INT% (15th) 83 Rating (28th)
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Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:09 pm

This is too far fetched a scenario to continue to argue about. But I stand firm that adding Njoku would not impact Kmet's ability to see the field one iota. Njoku and Graham play one position, Harris and Kmet a different position. If Njoku were a Y TE I'd agree with you, but he isn't.
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Z Bear
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Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:38 am

I posted his stats to show he averages 3.5 catches for 40 yards a game in his best year. That is not the type of production that screams elite.

I did not realize they picked up his 5th year...at a $6M price tag. That makes it even a crazier idea.
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Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:01 am

The option year would be guaranteed for Injury only - so you could cut him then

I dont think there is really much of a world where getting him would make Kmet inactive though

I think the market is a 5th or 6th (though if its a 6th why would the Browns even do that?)
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wulfy
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Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:16 pm

Z Bear wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:38 am
I posted his stats to show he averages 3.5 catches for 40 yards a game in his best year. That is not the type of production that screams elite.

I did not realize they picked up his 5th year...at a $6M price tag. That makes it even a crazier idea.
Leonard Floyd got his 5th Year Option picked up, so proof it's basic meaningless.

Plus, I think the Beloved traded their fourth next season to the Vikings for Gipson. I can't see them moving another mid-round pick 10 months before the draft.

I still scratch my head on the Graham contract, not the signing necessarily (but a little bit of that too), but the contract. Who was Pace competing against?
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dplank
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Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:26 pm

RichH55 wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:01 am
The option year would be guaranteed for Injury only - so you could cut him then

I dont think there is really much of a world where getting him would make Kmet inactive though

I think the market is a 5th or 6th (though if its a 6th why would the Browns even do that?)
Yea, very true. If I'm the Browns, I play it out and see if he shows something and maybe his value increases. Just netting a 5th doesn't seem worth it. But they do appear to have moved on from him with their 2 new TE's.
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The Grizzly One
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Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:14 pm

Honestly guys, I was big on Njoku early on. But something seems as if it's not right, IMO. He would be a project type after he bottoms out and is cut. But he is not a stud. If the price was the same, meaning salary and assets, I would probably prefer Njoku over Graham because I've been emotionally invested in him. But the cost now, considering we already signed Graham, NO! It's not just crazy, it's actually dumb.
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Yogi da Bear
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Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:35 pm

Richie wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:08 pm
Harris is the only plus blocker we have at the moment. You cannot jettison him or keep him inactive in favor of Kmet year #1. Both Graham and Kmet are liabilities blocking (just like Njoku).
While Jimmy Graham's blocking was atrocious when he first came out, as you'd expect from a former basketball player, apparently he's been working on his blocking in Green Bay:



That's encouraging.
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Richie
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Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:20 pm

Yogi da Bear wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:35 pm
Richie wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:08 pm
Harris is the only plus blocker we have at the moment. You cannot jettison him or keep him inactive in favor of Kmet year #1. Both Graham and Kmet are liabilities blocking (just like Njoku).
While Jimmy Graham's blocking was atrocious when he first came out, as you'd expect from a former basketball player, apparently he's been working on his blocking in Green Bay:



That's encouraging.
I'm sure he's better than his New Orleans days. I mean, he'd better be. At the end of the day, though? Graham still grades low as a blocker. It is what it is. He's 33 and that's unlikely to change. This isn't some mid 20's 3rd-4th year guy. This is an old man by NFL standards.

I mean, a lot of guys look good for one play. Shaheen also has had plays where he put a lick on a guy and opened up a running lane. He's still a bad blocker.
Year 3 Starting (updated yearly)

Brees (11-4): 65.5% (7th) 7.9 Y/A (7th) 27 TD (7th) 6.8 TD% (4th) 7 INT 1.8 INT% (3rd) 104 Rating (3rd)

Trubisky (8-7): 63.2% (18th) 6.1 Y/A (32nd) 17 TD (27th) 3.3 TD% (30th) 10 INT 1.9 INT% (15th) 83 Rating (28th)

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