Crazy Trade Idea

The latest Bears news and talk

Moderators: wab, RING4CHI, Pagan

User avatar
dplank
MVP
Posts: 1065
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:19 am

Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:23 am

I'm not that worried about the U TE's blocking. As long as he's a willing blocker and sticks his nose in there when asked to, he doesn't have to be very good at it. He'll be sent out on routes 75-85% of the time anyways. Harris/Kmet will be blocking 50% or more of their snaps, I really hope Kmet can be a good blocker on the edge for us but probably wishful thinking that happens this season. It's one reason I was less upset about not drafting OL with that pick, Y TE is really an extension of the OL on a majority of running plays.
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 6 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
User avatar
Yogi da Bear
Player of the Month
Posts: 383
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:43 pm

Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:38 am

dplank wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:23 am
I'm not that worried about the U TE's blocking. As long as he's a willing blocker and sticks his nose in there when asked to, he doesn't have to be very good at it. He'll be sent out on routes 75-85% of the time anyways.
This is why I was so encouraged by those clips, and yeah, I know they're highlight clips. The thing is that what I remember of Graham in Seattle and New Orleans is that he wasn't a willing blocker. He shied away from contact. From those clips in Green Bay, at least, he's become a more willing blocker. Certainly more so than Allan Robinson proved last year.

Here's an interesting take from a Packer fan on Graham's blocking:
He is much-maligned for his blocking. I'm not going to disagree with the entire premise, but I challenge some of you to go back a re-watch the beginning of the game against Minnesota. I saw Graham execute some pretty effective blocks in the running game. Where he completely fails and is a giant liability is pass-blocking. That one towards the end of the game leading to Rodgers getting crushed, is on Rodgers and LaFluer. They have to make adjustments.

That said, I've seen talk out here about how useless Jimmy is blocking. I just don't think that's completely true and should be re-evaluated. The guy can block and needs to keep getting used effectively by the coaching staff.
That's probably true, but my question is why exactly would anybody actually have Jimmy Graham blocking on a pass play?
Harris/Kmet will be blocking 50% or more of their snaps, I really hope Kmet can be a good blocker on the edge for us but probably wishful thinking that happens this season. It's one reason I was less upset about not drafting OL with that pick, Y TE is really an extension of the OL on a majority of running plays.
Yeah, I wouldn't expect that from Kmet this year. He wasn't a bad blocker in college, but he wasn't great either, and it usually takes TEs a bit to grow into the blocking in the NFL.
User avatar
PapaSully
Rookie
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:05 pm

Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:36 pm

The thing I see as a potential with Kmet in the blocking game is that, while not great at ND, he was a willing blocker and "got in the way". Most kids playing a position like tight end will naturally put on some weight and muscle in their rookie year. If he is a "willing" blocker and puts on a few pounds he could become effective even as a rookie this season. That will also open him up in the passing game with delayed routes and screens.
RichH55
Assistant Coach
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:23 pm

Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:45 am

Putting aside the paucity of evidence on the blocking

What is the debate between - guys just get better at it as they have more years1. (more technique, stronger, etc) and 2. more willingness here (I feel that's more the Graham plan)

On option 2 I wonder how much of that is the function of not having the physical skills he once had and thus needs to do other things so he can stay playing

(If you are Brad Pitt or have Bill Gates's money - You might not have to listen quite as well as the guy with neither in his quiver)

v. Option 3 - Play Calling - Do you keep Graham in more to block because he isn't the same guy on Routes and you are getting more out of him by Blocking more and getting out into Routes less? Whereas in New Orleans maybe he was willing - but why would you do it when he's so Great out in Routes?


*I actually have No idea what his blocking percentages are career wise v. GB - I know in New Orleans he lined up as basically a WR the vast majority of the time
User avatar
dplank
MVP
Posts: 1065
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:19 am

Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:09 am

RichH55 wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:45 am
Putting aside the paucity of evidence on the blocking

What is the debate between - guys just get better at it as they have more years1. (more technique, stronger, etc) and 2. more willingness here (I feel that's more the Graham plan)

On option 2 I wonder how much of that is the function of not having the physical skills he once had and thus needs to do other things so he can stay playing

(If you are Brad Pitt or have Bill Gates's money - You might not have to listen quite as well as the guy with neither in his quiver)

v. Option 3 - Play Calling - Do you keep Graham in more to block because he isn't the same guy on Routes and you are getting more out of him by Blocking more and getting out into Routes less? Whereas in New Orleans maybe he was willing - but why would you do it when he's so Great out in Routes?


*I actually have No idea what his blocking percentages are career wise v. GB - I know in New Orleans he lined up as basically a WR the vast majority of the time
Graham early on in his career was a stick figure, an inexperienced one at that. He was not going to be good at blocking no matter how hard he tried, Payton knew this, and rarely asked him to do it (which further delayed his development on that front). As he's aged, he's put on "adult weight" that is unavoidable and is a much more stout, and slower, player than he was then. Seattle had him block more than NO did, it's just in Seattle's DNA to run a lot. I can't stomach watching Packers games so I honestly didn't see him play there other than the games he played against us, but I suspect a similar trend as Erin seems to favor WR's over TE's. So I put all these things together in my head and assume that he's:

1) Not the same recieving threat he used to be, particularly down field
2) Better able to execute a block on a DL or LB because he has more "ass" behind him
3) Better able to execute a block on a DL or LB because he has to do this more often than he did when he was an elite downfield threat and his technique should have naturally improved with repetition.
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 6 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
RichH55
Assistant Coach
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:23 pm

Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:47 pm

All could be true

I wouldn't expect him to be much of a positive regardless as to this portion of the game
User avatar
Yogi da Bear
Player of the Month
Posts: 383
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:43 pm

Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:22 pm

In New Orleans, it wasn't only that Graham hadn't "filled out" as DP says, he apparently also avoided blocking due to injury. This also happened in Seattle according to reports as I've researched this. In Green Bay though, it's clear from thos three clips that he's more than a willing blocker, despite nursing apparent injuries. I loved his tenacity in those clips. That's not something you saw from him in either Seattle or New Orleans.
RichH55
Assistant Coach
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:23 pm

Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:05 pm

Yogi da Bear wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:22 pm
In New Orleans, it wasn't only that Graham hadn't "filled out" as DP says, he apparently also avoided blocking due to injury. This also happened in Seattle according to reports as I've researched this. In Green Bay though, it's clear from thos three clips that he's more than a willing blocker, despite nursing apparent injuries. I loved his tenacity in those clips. That's not something you saw from him in either Seattle or New Orleans.
So he magically became more a team player in GB than both a big run in New Orleans AND in Seattle?

That is the take away #1

And take away #2 from before is that he still has most of his speed making the new blocking role unnecessary (EVEN MORE A TEAM PLAYER!!!)

I'm not particularly sold on either

To me - its a role change necessitated by what he has lost - rather than magically becoming a team player in either Year 9 or 10 of his NFL Career
User avatar
Yogi da Bear
Player of the Month
Posts: 383
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:43 pm

Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:49 pm

Or take away #3: realizing that Aaron Rodgers wasn't targeting him, Graham realized that he had to do something to distinguish himself for other teams in free agency. lol

All I know is that that wasn't something I saw when he was with the Saints and Hags.
User avatar
Yogi da Bear
Player of the Month
Posts: 383
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:43 pm

Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:54 pm

Here's another one of Graham run blocking.



Nice.

Now, here's his pass blocking:



Ugh.

Solution: don't keep Jimmy Graham in to block on pass plays. lol No wonder Aaron Rodgers wouldn't throw him the ball. ;)
RichH55
Assistant Coach
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:23 pm

Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:38 pm

Yeah - He also doesn't seem great at it.

Maybe the Packers are really dumb (could be honestly) - but it doesn't really bode well for Graham
User avatar
wab
Mod
Posts: 20766
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm

Re: Crazy Trade Idea

Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:33 am

Gram his here to move the chains and catch TD's in the RZ. It's that simple. There's no need to over-complicate his role.

I've watched a lot of Kmet. He put on some weight leading up to the draft, for what reason I don't know. But I'm not sure if he can keep that weight on. He's more agile than he's given credit for, and he's actually a pretty decent blocker. He just wasn't asked to do it very often at ND.

Return to “Halas Hall”