Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

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Who Should Start Week 1: Trubisky or Foles

Mitchell Trubisky
20
71%
Nick Foles
8
29%
 
Total votes: 28
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G08
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Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:29 am

Pretty straight-forward question. This isn't about who you like more or who you think is the better QB.

I'm asking you to put on your GM hat -- YOU are Ryan Pace -- what would be best for the Chicago Bears? Which QB do you start week 1 and what is your plan of action if the QB doesn't perform up to standard?
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First 43 starts:

Drew Brees: 61.1% | 8760 yards | 57 TDs | 40 INTs | 6.65 YPA | 82.5

Mitch Trubisky: 63.2% | 8986 yards | 53 TDs | 31 INTs | 6.7 YPA | 86.1
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:32 am

I went with Mitchell Trubisky.

My reasoning is layered:
  • Neither Trubisky nor Foles won the job in camp based on reports. When this happens, I believe the 'tie goes to the runner'. In this case, it is the incumbent
  • Nick Foles has never had success in a season as a week 1 starter; his best work comes 'off the bench'
  • Trubisky was heavily invested in by the franchise, and was drafted as the least experienced 1st round QB in NFL history
  • Giving Trubisky 3-4 weeks to prove himself offers a young QB a puncher's chance to salvage his Chicago Bears career. It also gives Nick Foles more time to learn and study the offense (he mentioned that it is different than what he ran in Philly and Jacksonville).
Image

First 43 starts:

Drew Brees: 61.1% | 8760 yards | 57 TDs | 40 INTs | 6.65 YPA | 82.5

Mitch Trubisky: 63.2% | 8986 yards | 53 TDs | 31 INTs | 6.7 YPA | 86.1
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:40 am

I'm guessing Foles will start week 1 because Detroit will probably have gameplanned for Trubisky. That said, don't be surprised if they do a lot of gimmicky bullcrap and have them each take snaps or both be in the backfield, because Nagy.
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:40 am

I think it should be Foles.

I don't buy the "Foles is best off the bench" line of thinking, it's a short set of data that people are drawing huge conclusions from. If the two QBs are relatively close, and one has had 2 full seasons in this offense and the other has had 3 weeks of a shortened offseason, then it seems logical to me that the guy who has only had 3 weeks but is performing at the same or slightly better level ALREADY is the better choice. I'd expect that player to get steadily better with more reps and the other player appears to have plateaued. It is also true that Trubisky has historically performed well in practice, but lacks the field instincts to improvise against actual competition when the lights are on. So that's another factor that tells me if they are close in practice, I'll take the guy with a history of playing better in big games vs the guy with a history of being a practice warrior.

I hate the idea of throwing Trubisky out there against soft defenses early in the season as it may provide a false sense of security if we roll over them, OR if he fails then we have lost a few easy / winnable games which is not OK. We are playoffs or bust this year, EVERY GAME COUNTS. We do not owe Trubisky another shot, we don't owe him or any player squat. We are in win now mode, which means put the best player on the field in Week 1. Development time is over.
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 6 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:45 am

Vote in the poll!
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First 43 starts:

Drew Brees: 61.1% | 8760 yards | 57 TDs | 40 INTs | 6.65 YPA | 82.5

Mitch Trubisky: 63.2% | 8986 yards | 53 TDs | 31 INTs | 6.7 YPA | 86.1
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:50 am

As I said before Trubisky starts with super short leash. If he doesn't come out smoking and lays a 1st half egg. Foles to the rescue.

May get 2nd start with same leash. If he bombs both, Foles takes over full time.
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:15 am

I suppose I'd let Mitch have his last chance, but it would be brief.

I think Foles has been and still is the better QB.
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:22 am

The Grizzly One wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:50 am
As I said before Trubisky starts with super short leash. If he doesn't come out smoking and lays a 1st half egg. Foles to the rescue.

May get 2nd start with same leash. If he bombs both, Foles takes over full time.
....and our season is over as well...which is why I hate this plan. If we start 0-2 against two patsies, we're done.
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:27 am

I think it should be Foles.

I have to fight against my own damn ' glass is half full ' mentality that I always have with the Bears. I am almost always wrong. That mentality tells me Trubisky will come out how and finally progress enough to keep it and Foles will be nice insurance.

Reality tells me that while Foles might not be spectacular all the time, he will be consistent and not lose games. So I think we should go with Foles.

In addition to that if Foles gets the job and keeps it, it makes it easier to then draft a young QB and start grooming that and get a little bit of that out of the way. Hard to do that while committing to Trubisky and keeping Foles on the bench
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:59 am

I think with Nick Foles, we kind of know who he is at this point, don't we?

8 years in the league
26-22 record as a starter
61.9% completions
2-to-1 TD to INT ratio
7.0 YPA
88.2 rating

Trubisky
3 years in the league
23-18 record as a starter
63.4% completion
1.66-to-1 TD to INT ratio
6.7 YPA
85.8 rating

Let's see the younger option for 3-4 games before we decide his Chicago Bears career is over.
Image

First 43 starts:

Drew Brees: 61.1% | 8760 yards | 57 TDs | 40 INTs | 6.65 YPA | 82.5

Mitch Trubisky: 63.2% | 8986 yards | 53 TDs | 31 INTs | 6.7 YPA | 86.1
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:33 pm

G08 wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:59 am
I think with Nick Foles, we kind of know who he is at this point, don't we?

8 years in the league
26-22 record as a starter
61.9% completions
2-to-1 TD to INT ratio
7.0 YPA
88.2 rating

Trubisky
3 years in the league
23-18 record as a starter
63.4% completion
1.66-to-1 TD to INT ratio
6.7 YPA
85.8 rating

Let's see the younger option for 3-4 games before we decide his Chicago Bears career is over.
No, we don't know who Foles is! We know more about Trubisky in Nagy's offense than Foles despite Foles being in the league longer. Foles has had a wild career, bouncing around and stuck in a few bad situations that has tamped his stats down (even though his stats are still better than Mitch's stats, so.......). One could argue that when Foles has been in a situation that his skills were suited for, he's been GREAT - like, Super Bowl MVP great. Like, 26TD vs 2INT great.
With Mitch, 3 years here in Chicago, 2 under Nagy, I'd say at this point we know who Mitch is at least in THIS offense. Mitch may thrive in another scheme, but that doesn't help us here and now which was the point of this poll.
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:44 pm

G08 wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:29 am
Pretty straight-forward question. This isn't about who you like more or who you think is the better QB.

I'm asking you to put on your GM hat -- YOU are Ryan Pace -- what would be best for the Chicago Bears? Which QB do you start week 1 and what is your plan of action if the QB doesn't perform up to standard?
Slight problem here. I put on my Ryan Pace hat and surprise:

Image

I found that the coach makes that decision and not me. :(
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:55 pm

I believe Mitch will start. And probably 'should' out of pragmatism and with Pace and continuity in mind.

If the question meant who should start in terms of best chance to win, I'd go with Foles.

One thing I won't miss is the use of average stats and team win records to hide how truly bad Mitch has been at most times in the last 2 years (I mean, he gets credit for almost losing to Vikes backups in a game of importance to him and a meaningless game for them?). I HOPE it becomes the case that he gets so much better there is a shift is to "look what he's doing now that he isn't bad anymore" stats. But I wouldn't bet money on it.
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:57 pm

That's funny, Yogi. I have to admit I've looked at it from Pace's point of view but maybe I shouldn't.

Pace has essentially said to Nagy "look I gave you both of these QBs... I just ask that you win regardless of the decision you make, and I'll work with the outcome".
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:01 pm

I went with Trubisky. Most of my rationale has been stated by others, but I have one more to add.

I think if you go Trubiksy and he falls, which he won't "book it," it's easy to move on to Foles - "that's why we brought him in here." But if you start Foles and he fails, I think it is going to be hard to move over to Trubisky.
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:17 pm

Arkansasbear wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:01 pm
I went with Trubisky. Most of my rationale has been stated by others, but I have one more to add.

I think if you go Trubiksy and he falls, which he won't "book it," it's easy to move on to Foles - "that's why we brought him in here." But if you start Foles and he fails, I think it is going to be hard to move over to Trubisky.
Why though? Maybe the game slows down a bit for Mitch if he's watching with Nagy et al from the sideline? Maybe - just maybe - that is exactly what Mitch needs?

I just don't understand why it is hard. Like he'll pout or something?
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:29 pm

I agree with Ark here. Mitch's number one problem I think is his confidence and thinking too much. I don't think ruling for Foles, particularly after all the work that Trubs has done this offseason to get better, will do much more Mitch's confidence. I also think the problem might go deeper and affect the whole team. I mean if a player strives all offseason to improve himself and the coaches then give the job to another guy after only a couple of weeks and without CLEARLY establishing himself and the better option, what do other players think about their own jobs?
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:36 pm

IE wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:55 pm

One thing I won't miss is the use of average stats and team win records to hide how truly bad Mitch has been at most times in the last 2 years
Auggh. Don't get me started on using (contextless) team wins as a QB metric.

:angry:
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:57 pm

Moriarty wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:36 pm
IE wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:55 pm

One thing I won't miss is the use of average stats and team win records to hide how truly bad Mitch has been at most times in the last 2 years
Auggh. Don't get me started on using (contextless) team wins as a QB metric.

:angry:
I'm legit shocked at how many people still think Mitch can play, he's shown us over and over and over again that he can't.
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:58 pm

Yogi da Bear wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:44 pm
G08 wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:29 am
Pretty straight-forward question. This isn't about who you like more or who you think is the better QB.

I'm asking you to put on your GM hat -- YOU are Ryan Pace -- what would be best for the Chicago Bears? Which QB do you start week 1 and what is your plan of action if the QB doesn't perform up to standard?
Slight problem here. I put on my Ryan Pace hat and surprise:

Image

I found that the coach makes that decision and not me. :(
He said himself that he's going to have a voice in the matter. Regardless, indulge me!
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First 43 starts:

Drew Brees: 61.1% | 8760 yards | 57 TDs | 40 INTs | 6.65 YPA | 82.5

Mitch Trubisky: 63.2% | 8986 yards | 53 TDs | 31 INTs | 6.7 YPA | 86.1
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:00 pm

IE wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:17 pm
Arkansasbear wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:01 pm
I went with Trubisky. Most of my rationale has been stated by others, but I have one more to add.

I think if you go Trubiksy and he falls, which he won't "book it," it's easy to move on to Foles - "that's why we brought him in here." But if you start Foles and he fails, I think it is going to be hard to move over to Trubisky.
Why though? Maybe the game slows down a bit for Mitch if he's watching with Nagy et al from the sideline? Maybe - just maybe - that is exactly what Mitch needs?

I just don't understand why it is hard. Like he'll pout or something?
Probably optics, I would think. At that point the team is kind of saying "we're done with Mitch, oh shit Foles actually sucks, uh we'll try Mitch again."

Bad look.

Then again, if Mitch starts and fails and then Foles comes in and stinks up the joint, they're also fucked.
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First 43 starts:

Drew Brees: 61.1% | 8760 yards | 57 TDs | 40 INTs | 6.65 YPA | 82.5

Mitch Trubisky: 63.2% | 8986 yards | 53 TDs | 31 INTs | 6.7 YPA | 86.1
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:13 pm

G08 wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:32 am
I went with Mitchell Trubisky.

My reasoning is layered:
  • Neither Trubisky nor Foles won the job in camp based on reports. When this happens, I believe the 'tie goes to the runner'. In this case, it is the incumbent
  • Nick Foles has never had success in a season as a week 1 starter; his best work comes 'off the bench'
  • Trubisky was heavily invested in by the franchise, and was drafted as the least experienced 1st round QB in NFL history
  • Giving Trubisky 3-4 weeks to prove himself offers a young QB a puncher's chance to salvage his Chicago Bears career. It also gives Nick Foles more time to learn and study the offense (he mentioned that it is different than what he ran in Philly and Jacksonville).
Mitch for exactly these reasons. Everyone is out here acting like Foles is head and shoulders better than Mitch. He isn’t. He never was.
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:17 pm

I think it's Foles. I'm sure Pace is doing everything he can to persuade Nagy to play Mitch, but in the end it's Nagy's call to make and I don't get the feeling that Nagy has any patience left at this point. He wants a game manager that can run his system.
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:44 pm

dplank wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:57 pm
Moriarty wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:36 pm


Auggh. Don't get me started on using (contextless) team wins as a QB metric.

:angry:
I'm legit shocked at how many people still think Mitch can play, he's shown us over and over and over again that he can't.
it;s still wishful thinking. year 3, the lights come on! except for over throwing receivers that i could pass to everything comes together and all our draft picks and angst over passing on mahommes is gone. :frustrated:
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:07 pm

dplank wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:57 pm
Moriarty wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:36 pm


Auggh. Don't get me started on using (contextless) team wins as a QB metric.

:angry:
I'm legit shocked at how many people still think Mitch can play, he's shown us over and over and over again that he can't.
Define 'play' for me.
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First 43 starts:

Drew Brees: 61.1% | 8760 yards | 57 TDs | 40 INTs | 6.65 YPA | 82.5

Mitch Trubisky: 63.2% | 8986 yards | 53 TDs | 31 INTs | 6.7 YPA | 86.1
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:30 pm

Really? OK....well, the phase "that guy can play" has been around for a while. Generally it means that the guy is really good at whatever he's doing. I haven't seen really good QB play from Mitch with any consistency whatsoever, anytime he plays well it's been very short lived with tons of stank in between.
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 6 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:44 pm

AZ_Bearfan wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:17 pm
I think it's Foles. I'm sure Pace is doing everything he can to persuade Nagy to play Mitch, but in the end it's Nagy's call to make and I don't get the feeling that Nagy has any patience left at this point. He wants a game manager that can run his system.
In one sense, I don't think this is correct, but in another, it is. Nagy wants his QB to push the ball down the field. It's what he got upset with Trubs for last year--he was checking down too much. He had to tell him to take shots down the field. From what I understand, Trubs has been doing that much more this camp then Foles has.

So I think you're right in that Nagy wants somebody to run his system. But I think you're wrong if you think that is being a game manager dinking and dunking. Part of his system is taking chances down the field to open up the underneath stuff.
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:17 pm

dplank wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:30 pm
Really? OK....well, the phase "that guy can play" has been around for a while. Generally it means that the guy is really good at whatever he's doing. I haven't seen really good QB play from Mitch with any consistency whatsoever, anytime he plays well it's been very short lived with tons of stank in between.
What is it about Foles that demonstrates consistency? Regular season ratings (starts):

79.1 (6 starts)
119.2 (10)
81.4 (8)
69.0 (11)
105.9 (1)
79.5 (3)
96.0 (5)
84.6 (4)
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First 43 starts:

Drew Brees: 61.1% | 8760 yards | 57 TDs | 40 INTs | 6.65 YPA | 82.5

Mitch Trubisky: 63.2% | 8986 yards | 53 TDs | 31 INTs | 6.7 YPA | 86.1
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:19 pm

Not saying 10 is it but whatever the answer Foles over Trubisky of a year plus ago isn’t it
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:56 pm

G08 wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:17 pm
dplank wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:30 pm
Really? OK....well, the phase "that guy can play" has been around for a while. Generally it means that the guy is really good at whatever he's doing. I haven't seen really good QB play from Mitch with any consistency whatsoever, anytime he plays well it's been very short lived with tons of stank in between.
What is it about Foles that demonstrates consistency? Regular season ratings (starts):

79.1 (6 starts)
119.2 (10)
81.4 (8)
69.0 (11)
105.9 (1)
79.5 (3)
96.0 (5)
84.6 (4)
The fact that the really good numbers correlate to when he's in an offense that fits him, which this one appears to be. Oh, and the Super Bowl MVP trophy in his trophy room. He's had successes that Mitch will never see most likely.
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 6 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.

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