Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

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Who Should Start Week 1: Trubisky or Foles

Mitchell Trubisky
20
71%
Nick Foles
8
29%
 
Total votes: 28
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southdakbearfan
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:38 pm

I guess I think it's fairly simple, at least in my mind or opinion.

Foles - Known Quantity of Top Backup, or fringe NFL Starter. Can get hot for short runs and fits this type of offense but has really failed every time he has been handed a team.

Trubisky - Hot and Cold, had a redshirt year in an offense with nothing around him under fox. Made a pro bowl year 2 under Nagy, underperformed year 3.

If it truly is close in a competition an NFL coach is always going to go for the guy that is still considered to have untapped potential, right or wrong.

Let's just not act like Foles is Payton Manning sitting on the bench.
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IE
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:07 am

I don't think anyone is acting like a GOAT is sitting on the bench. It is just more of a comparison between 2 much lesser players. But one who has demonstrated he can elevate his play a bit more than the other. And probably (I haven't see every single one of his games - but have seen enough) doesn't have nearly as low of lows. I don't mean "throwing the ball 3 times to the other team" lows - even the best QBs do that on occasion. I'm talking about a QB who struggles to generate ANY offense for long stretches of time, where it is difficult if not impossible to win with him.

Again... one thing that makes Mitch look FAR better than he is are his "averages" and W/L ratio. Those things are deceptive. You could have a 50 rating every other game and then beat up some bums and come out looking "average"... and that would be false. In more accurate measures, as I've shown before, Mitch's median statistics (what we should expect, statistically, on any outing)... are brutal. All QBs have a few good games and a few bad ones. To really see who they ARE you need to throw out anomalies or situationally misleading examples (both bad and good)... and see what a player really is, in most games. In Mitch's case the numbers tell a tale of needing more than just a little fine-tuning in offseason coaching or digestion of the playbook. Averages can work OK for comparison of reasonably consistent players. But not volatile ones or ones that alternate 2 mind numbingly bad outings with a 3 TD game. That is nothing close to what "average" implies.

That said, I don't think there is anyone who would waste time on a site like this who would want to see the team fail because of this player or that player. It's a given, in my mind, that there is an implied "go bears!" in the signoff on every post no matter how heated they might get about a given player.
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:10 pm

This is why I said a "healthy Trubs" DP. Mitchell was playing injured last year and didn't use his legs near as much as he did in 2018, when he was very successful extending drives with his legs (29 first down to only 12 last year). By contrast, Foles only has 42 first downs rushing in his entire nine year career and 16 of them came in one season back in 2013. If Mitchell and Foles are close in your passing evaluation, you have to give Mitchell the edge with his legs alone.
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:21 pm

Part of me is more worried about Nagy than the QBs. The failure of his offense has all been laid at Trubisky's door, but what if Trubisky's struggles are due to Nagy's system and coaching?

When he was bemoaning the fact that both Trubisky and Foles were checking the ball down rather than taking chances downfield the other day I found that concerning. If both QBs are doing the same thing then surely that's Nagy failing to communicate what he wants?

The fact that both Miller and Wims have been called out during camp for not accepting coaching in previous seasons, Miller for his grasp of the playbook and lack of precision in his routes and Wims for relying on his size to beat press coverage and not keeping low enough in his routes, is also a red flag.

This is Nagy's offense. If players aren't doing what he wants them to do then he is ultimately responsible for that.

His inability to get an effective run game going in two seasons certainly hasn't made things any easier for Trubisky. If he keeps winding up in second and long, let alone third and long, situations again this year because runs keep getting stuffed then it's going to be that much more difficult to sustain drives, get into a rhythm and enjoy success. If he gets yanked for Foles and the same happens then what? Will it be put down to not having a normal offseason for Foles to learn the offense and get to know his teammates?

Hopefully I'm worrying about nothing and one of the QBs will enjoy success, but I've been far from impressed by Nagy's handling of the offense so far.
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:57 am

Good points HRS.

Here's an out-of-the-box theory: Maybe Pace recognizes this, and one of the reason he brought in all those new experienced coaches/coordinators is ... it is actually Nagy who is on the short leash, and could end up either losing his job (unlikely) or his "OC" role (definitely possible) if things don't "click" on offense for the team again out of the gate.

I like Nagy, and do think he's a good leader. But maybe his influence on the offense needs to be limited to leadership and strategies and not coaching OR game-calling.
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:04 am

IE wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:57 am
I like Nagy, and do think he's a good leader. But maybe his influence on the offense needs to be limited to leadership and strategies and not coaching OR game-calling.
That's how I feel about things IE. I love the way Nagy came in and energised the locker room and respect the fact that he kept the team together despite last season's disappointments.

I just see so many red flags with him running the offense. To the aforementioned I could add the apparent separation of running and passing game, which should surely complement each other, where he essentially blamed the problems with the former squarely on Helfrich and Hiestand as if he had little input. Saying "I'm not an idiot, I know we have to run more." when you've just gone through a game rushing 7 times doesn't inspire confidence, especially when you've just had your bye week and your struggling QB is returning from injury. It wasn't the first time he'd abandoned the run either. Jettisoning a successful RB as a poor system fit and then seeing his replacement, who you traded up to get, put up nearly identical numbers suggests the problem goes deeper than personnel. Then there was the way he pulled Trubisky from the Rams game, not attempting to gain more yards or even ensuring the ball was on the kicker's preferred hash mark for a game-winning field goal attempt, not trusting his kicker to attempt longer field goals... the list is quite extensive.

Ultimately if 'he's young and learning' no longer cuts any ice for Trubisky then the same is true for Nagy.
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:01 pm

HisRoyalSweetness wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:04 am
IE wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:57 am
I like Nagy, and do think he's a good leader. But maybe his influence on the offense needs to be limited to leadership and strategies and not coaching OR game-calling.
That's how I feel about things IE. I love the way Nagy came in and energised the locker room and respect the fact that he kept the team together despite last season's disappointments.

I just see so many red flags with him running the offense. To the aforementioned I could add the apparent separation of running and passing game, which should surely complement each other, where he essentially blamed the problems with the former squarely on Helfrich and Hiestand as if he had little input. Saying "I'm not an idiot, I know we have to run more." when you've just gone through a game rushing 7 times doesn't inspire confidence, especially when you've just had your bye week and your struggling QB is returning from injury. It wasn't the first time he'd abandoned the run either. Jettisoning a successful RB as a poor system fit and then seeing his replacement, who you traded up to get, put up nearly identical numbers suggests the problem goes deeper than personnel. Then there was the way he pulled Trubisky from the Rams game, not attempting to gain more yards or even ensuring the ball was on the kicker's preferred hash mark for a game-winning field goal attempt, not trusting his kicker to attempt longer field goals... the list is quite extensive.

Ultimately if 'he's young and learning' no longer cuts any ice for Trubisky then the same is true for Nagy.
Great post. I think Nagy 100% is still learning on the job, and I do think having Bill Lazor here to make sure that our run game and pass game / play action are all tied together is going to be a tremendous help to our playcalling.

I hope, anyway!
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First 43 starts:

Drew Brees: 61.1% | 8760 yards | 57 TDs | 40 INTs | 6.65 YPA | 82.5

Mitch Trubisky: 63.2% | 8986 yards | 53 TDs | 31 INTs | 6.7 YPA | 86.1
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IE
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:12 pm

Yep. We all need this to come together, and Nagy not shooting holes in his own feet is a big part of it. Plank mentioned we need to draw to an inside straight here this season - and yeah, I agree. They're taking risks, with the QB, with the Oline, with the RB depth. That's a lot of pieces that need to fall into place at the same time.

Good thing there was a great offseason of practice and preseason games to work out the kinks, huh? :? :scared: :backout:
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:45 am

It was interesting watching the Chiefs/Texans game last night. For starters, what a difference a run game makes! Who'd have thought? Then there were receivers fighting for extra yards, slipping tackles and picking up first downs, making their QBs look good in the process. Tarik Cohen in particular needs to take note of that after last season. Both QBs had some struggles when the offense fell 'behind the chains', something that happened all too regularly to the Bears last season. Early on the Texans had no answer to Kelce. Let's hope at least one of our new TEs can provide a threat of any kind after last year's pathetic production. The Chiefs execution in particular was just so slick, with receivers running interference and throwing blocks to help their teammates after a ball was caught. Overall there was just so much more effort on display than I'm used to seeing from the Bears.

Mahomes threw a dump off pass on third and 18 over the head of the receiver and 'nearly' threw 3 interceptions. The first was nowhere near any Chiefs player and the DB failed to make a low diving catch. The second was nowhere near any Chiefs player but the DB couldn't get his second foot down in the back of the end zone (and there was a penalty for illegal contact anyway). The third he threw into triple coverage only for it to be nullified because one defender had his arm around the receivers waste although it made no difference to the outcome of the play. (Mahomes threw a TD immediately after.)

If it had been Trubisky, Bears fans would be all over him for those plays and I suspect so would the coaches (or at least in Trubisky's mind they would). I can't shake the feeling that "avoid turnovers at all costs, play within the system, don't take chances, there's always another down/drive" has been hammered into him since day one under Fox and he's always played 'tight'. Mahomes on the other hand just exudes confidence and simply shakes off any missteps.

Trubisky's said: “I just found my confidence this offseason when I figured out it was going to be a competition. I mean, something had to change... Just talking to my support cast and family and friends and reaching out for advice, I found my confidence again. I came in here with a different attitude and mindset, and... there’s gonna be no regrets. I’m not even worried about outcomes. I’m just worried about putting my best foot forward.”

I really hope those words translate to the field and he loosens up and gets some swagger into his game. For all the talk about his other failings, I can't help but wonder if his primary problem is being fearful of making mistakes and whether that is in part driven by Nagy's inability to hide his frustrations.

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