Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

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Who Should Start Week 1: Trubisky or Foles

Mitchell Trubisky
20
71%
Nick Foles
8
29%
 
Total votes: 28
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G08
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:10 pm

dplank wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:56 pm
G08 wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:17 pm


What is it about Foles that demonstrates consistency? Regular season ratings (starts):

79.1 (6 starts)
119.2 (10)
81.4 (8)
69.0 (11)
105.9 (1)
79.5 (3)
96.0 (5)
84.6 (4)
The fact that the really good numbers correlate to when he's in an offense that fits him, which this one appears to be. Oh, and the Super Bowl MVP trophy in his trophy room. He's had successes that Mitch will never see most likely.
I love the Super Bowl MVP trophy that he has, but he's inconsistent. He's poor as a starter and does his best work "coming off the bench" (this can't really be disputed).

He was also thoroughly outplayed by a 6th round draft pick last season... that doesn't bother you even a little? His QB coach was his playcaller...
Image

First 43 starts:

Drew Brees: 61.1% | 8760 yards | 57 TDs | 40 INTs | 6.65 YPA | 82.5

Mitch Trubisky: 63.2% | 8986 yards | 53 TDs | 31 INTs | 6.7 YPA | 86.1
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:57 pm

I'll just repeat it one more time, because it's really the whole point....Foles has, for the most part, done extremely well when he's played in this style offense. Not perfect all the time, but he has EXTENDED stretches of excellent play in this offense. I think Mitch has a better arm and is far more athletic, but he's not a good fit for this offense - Foles is.
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:01 pm

A very small part of me wants it to be Foles so you guys can turn on him sometime in week 6.
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:44 pm

If he sucks I will, if he plays well I won’t! Pretty simple and not personal. I was on the Trubisky bandwagon until last year, but he was straight up Henry Burris out there last year. I’m on the Foles train now and will support him as long as he plays well.

I’m wondering...if Nagy goes for Foles, will the Trubisky clan fall in line?
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:05 pm

wab wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:01 pm
A very small part of me wants it to be Foles so you guys can turn on him sometime in week 6.
:rofl:
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:27 pm

I dont like the narrative that Foles can come off the bench while Trubisky cant if needed. There are tons of high draft picks that fail then get benched and then come back to succeed. Dont ask me to name them cus im drinking...but I just think its not a valid argument to start Mitch first.
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:03 am

dplank wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:22 am
The Grizzly One wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:50 am
As I said before Trubisky starts with super short leash. If he doesn't come out smoking and lays a 1st half egg. Foles to the rescue.

May get 2nd start with same leash. If he bombs both, Foles takes over full time.
....and our season is over as well...which is why I hate this plan. If we start 0-2 against two patsies, we're done.
DP, my friend, my brother. NOT to worry, the D will keep us in the game and Foles will rescue us in the 2nd half of both games one and two.

Then we dominate the rest of the season.

And yes my old partner in optimism is inspiring me...

BOOK IT!

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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:43 am

I voted Trubisky but it's close for me.

If it's my call, I start Mitch for the reasons G08 listed for his vote but I'm fully prepared to make the switch at halftime in the first game if it looks like he is struggling to make decisions or isn't accurate with the football. This all has to be adjusted for context, as I'm confident his offensive line will be bottom half / bottom third of the league and the RB corps, which wasn't great to begin with, is already dealing with injury.

In addition to all that, I'm not convinced Foles is going to be materially better in the event the switch is made, especially once he's firmly in the starter role and teams are scheming against him rather than Mitch. While Foles has done it on the biggest stage there is, which counts for a ton with me, time marches on and there's no guarantee the SB MVP Foles is the one we get if he's called upon.

If both options struggle, the season is basically lost. I'm not sure what I would do in that case (not the thread question but I think it's interesting to consider). I would probably go with whoever manages to put together a win and stick with him until he lays an egg on the field.
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:44 am

Foles is certainly not head & shoulders above Mitch, unless you consider what he's accomplished in the post-season and in favorable offenses, and demonstrated in terms of being able to execute the offense, read defenses, make good decisions and throw with touch.

I do think Mitch will likely start - it makes sense given the situation and the stakeholders. But one reason I do NOT want him to start is his emotional or mental fragility. IF that is a factor in any way shape or form, he can hit the road as far as I'm concerned. I speculated that might actually be an issue with him, and that he might play better in a fan-less environment that is more like practice. But that isn't a compliment to him. And it certainly is a risk this season presents for the long term if he plays well in unusual circumstances...
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:35 pm

Do be clear on what I saying, it has nothing to do with the organization.

If Mitchell struggles, which he won’t BOOK IT, the team can easily bring in Foles and say “this is why we traded for him, but do the crazy off-season he wasn’t ready to go week one and we felt Mitch looked good to go”

If they start Foles and he struggles the team has to go back to Mitch, they have to come out admit the trade was bad, admit they dropped the ball in evaluation process and say Mitch is better than we thought. Again they don’t actually say these things but that’s what the move will reflect.

If you don’t think the guys calling the shots have giant egos, I think you are mistaken. Those guys are driven and have the utmost faith in themselves. I think it will be harder for them to pull the trigger and make the switch.

Hope that helps.
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:43 pm

I think if Foles is playing at any point the only reason 10 would come back in is injury. Foles has never "struggled" at a level where he would be yanked. So there's no reason to expect he would now. When Nagy yanked 10 last year, he was throwing the ball into the dirt and looked completely lost. What we can book is that will never happen with Foles.
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:36 pm

IE wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:43 pm
I think if Foles is playing at any point the only reason 10 would come back in is injury. Foles has never "struggled" at a level where he would be yanked. So there's no reason to expect he would now. When Nagy yanked 10 last year, he was throwing the ball into the dirt and looked completely lost. What we can book is that will never happen with Foles.
He did last season with JAX after he came back from his broken collarbone, stunk up the joint for 2.5 games, and got benched for the 6th round mustache that is Gardner Minshew.

Dec 1, 2019 at 4:25 PM
Nick Foles was benched after halftime after having three turnovers and passing for just 93 yards. Gardner Minshew replaced Foles and passed for 147 yards and a touchdown.
Image

First 43 starts:

Drew Brees: 61.1% | 8760 yards | 57 TDs | 40 INTs | 6.65 YPA | 82.5

Mitch Trubisky: 63.2% | 8986 yards | 53 TDs | 31 INTs | 6.7 YPA | 86.1
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:48 pm

G08, thoughts on the offense / system match that I have mentioned a few times? It's the entire basis for my belief that Foles is the better option, haven't heard you directly dispute it. He's excelled in this offense a few times, including a friggin Super Bowl. Mitch just played his second year in this offense and looked like absolute trash. I view these types of comparisons as far more useful than looking at anything else.

If we were having to choose either QB without first knowing the system they were going to run, I'd actually choose Mitch on upside alone as Foles can look like hot garbage in the wrong scheme as well. It just so happens that Nagy's offense is what Foles is best at, and it appears as though its a really bad fit for Mitch. I still believe if you put Mitch in a Tennessee sort of situation that he'd thrive. But that's just not where we are here in Chicago under Nagy!

@Ark I think you might end up being right about the shortened offseason, camp, no preseason games being the main reason why Trubisky could get the nod. It would make sense and to your other point it would allow the organization to save face a little bit as it's an easy, built in excuse for going that route. I have no skin in that game, I just want the best QB to execute Nagy's system, and I believe firmly that it's Foles.
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:15 pm

dplank wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:48 pm
G08, thoughts on the offense / system match that I have mentioned a few times? It's the entire basis for my belief that Foles is the better option, haven't heard you directly dispute it. He's excelled in this offense a few times, including a friggin Super Bowl. Mitch just played his second year in this offense and looked like absolute trash. I view these types of comparisons as far more useful than looking at anything else.

If we were having to choose either QB without first knowing the system they were going to run, I'd actually choose Mitch on upside alone as Foles can look like hot garbage in the wrong scheme as well. It just so happens that Nagy's offense is what Foles is best at, and it appears as though its a really bad fit for Mitch. I still believe if you put Mitch in a Tennessee sort of situation that he'd thrive. But that's just not where we are here in Chicago under Nagy!

@Ark I think you might end up being right about the shortened offseason, camp, no preseason games being the main reason why Trubisky could get the nod. It would make sense and to your other point it would allow the organization to save face a little bit as it's an easy, built in excuse for going that route. I have no skin in that game, I just want the best QB to execute Nagy's system, and I believe firmly that it's Foles.
DP, I might be with you if we had a normal off-season. I think that may have let Foles build the chemistry and whatnot he needed to take over the starters role. You let Mitch start (on a short leash - but again I'm calling it he starts all 16 games barring injury) and Foles gets some more time to get that stuff down (granted not as much with the starters, but if Mitch struggles they could make the call after the game and he gets a solid week with the ones to work on that, rather than splitting the time with them with Mitch). Good news is that in 8 days, 21 hours and 45 minutes we get to see one of them walk onto the field as our starting QB!!!!!!!!
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:29 pm

dplank wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:56 pm
The fact that the really good numbers correlate to when he's in an offense that fits him, which this one appears to be. Oh, and the Super Bowl MVP trophy in his trophy room. He's had successes that Mitch will never see most likely.
Until this year. :-D
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:15 pm

dplank wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:48 pm
G08, thoughts on the offense / system match that I have mentioned a few times? It's the entire basis for my belief that Foles is the better option, haven't heard you directly dispute it. He's excelled in this offense a few times, including a friggin Super Bowl. Mitch just played his second year in this offense and looked like absolute trash. I view these types of comparisons as far more useful than looking at anything else.
I think system plays a huge role for any QB, but we have to remember that this offense has its differences compared to what he did in Philly. Foles even admitted as such, so he's still learning.

I'm of the opinion that if he was as comfortable/versed in the offense as some think, wouldn't that have shown on the field via production and outright winning this QB competition?

If you pull his regular season numbers from his starts in KC through what he did in Jacksonville (DeFilippo was his OC) you'll come up with:

66.45%, 3096 yards, 18 TDs, 8 INTs, 6.62 YPA and a 90.7 rating. [19 games]

His career in the playoffs in this system nets a 97.6 rating. [5 games]


I don't know, man. Combine those two and you're around a 92.1 rating (unless anyone wants to crunch the numbers for me, the site I use doesn't allow you to pull playoff numbers without manually working them).

Trubisky in this offense is an 88.7 rating. [30 games]
Image

First 43 starts:

Drew Brees: 61.1% | 8760 yards | 57 TDs | 40 INTs | 6.65 YPA | 82.5

Mitch Trubisky: 63.2% | 8986 yards | 53 TDs | 31 INTs | 6.7 YPA | 86.1
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:24 pm

ok, good post, but my read out of this data is different. First off, Foles is 5 points better on QBR in this method, so if you just wanna go by that it's Foles not Trubisky. Second, we've managed to throw away his 26 TD, 2 INT season that he had,Trubisky has never sniffed that type of sustained success ever. Third, Trubisky's combined numbers are buttressed by 2018, but his most recent work last year was abysmal, which is more relevant. Foles most recent work in this offense was in Philly, where he yet again led a playoff charge for the Eagles that fell just short - he played great. Fourth, Foles has a ring. Fifth, who says he DIDN'T win the competition? Media attendance was near zero, no preseason games, and one thing we know for sure is you can't take what Nagy says about Mitch in a presser very seriously. Sixth, back to a prior point I made...logically speaking, if you have two guys competing at about the same level, I'll take the guy who's only been working at it for 3 weeks over the guy who's heading into his 3rd YEAR. Like, 1,000 times out of 1,000. I see the reverse of your logic: if these two guys actually did compete to a stalemate, who in their right mind wouldn't assume that the 3 week guy wouldn't have lots of improvement still to come vs the Year 3 guy?

All good here, I know we don't agree. Most likely Trubisky starts for the reasons Ark posted, but I think it's a mistake. I'd go with the better, proven player and start getting him the reps he needs to get fully up to speed ASAP.

I sometimes wonder if the "pro Trubisky" crowd REALLY understand how bad he was last year? I really struggle to see how a fan of the team that wants us to win would want to see a repeat of that garbage.
Last edited by dplank on Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:26 pm

JUST TO BE CLEAR:

I will be rooting for Mitch. Would LOVE to see him fulfill the hope we had in his rookie season during preseason.

I just don't see "IT" for him. The good news I guess, is I'm often wrong. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:28 pm

The Grizzly One wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:26 pm
JUST TO BE CLEAR:

I will be rooting for Mitch. Would LOVE to see him fulfill the hope we had in his rookie season during preseason.

I just don't see "IT" for him. The good news I guess, is I'm often wrong. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yes, me as well. If Nagy announces it's Trubisky, I'll promptly order my wife to dust off her Trubisky jersey for Week 1 and we'll root for him to succeed!
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:07 pm

dplank wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:24 pm
I sometimes wonder if the "pro Trubisky" crowd REALLY understand how bad he was last year? I really struggle to see how a fan of the team that wants us to win would want to see a repeat of that garbage.
I can't speak for others but I'm cognizant of how poorly he played at times. He played well at times too. We have to be honest in that our offensive line was shit, our run game was shit, and the position that is the most important in this offense (after QB, of course) is the U TE (and TE position in general). We had dog shit production from there and had to overhaul it.

I think it's easy to pin last season's failures on Trubisky but there was a lot more wrong on offense and Nagy didn't do much to help him.
Image

First 43 starts:

Drew Brees: 61.1% | 8760 yards | 57 TDs | 40 INTs | 6.65 YPA | 82.5

Mitch Trubisky: 63.2% | 8986 yards | 53 TDs | 31 INTs | 6.7 YPA | 86.1
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:08 pm

dplank wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:28 pm
The Grizzly One wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:26 pm
JUST TO BE CLEAR:

I will be rooting for Mitch. Would LOVE to see him fulfill the hope we had in his rookie season during preseason.

I just don't see "IT" for him. The good news I guess, is I'm often wrong. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yes, me as well. If Nagy announces it's Trubisky, I'll promptly order my wife to dust off her Trubisky jersey for Week 1 and we'll root for him to succeed!
This is what I like about you, it's not a "you vs me" type thing in having a different opinion. We all want the same fucking thing and that's for this God damned franchise to win a fucking Super Bowl.
Image

First 43 starts:

Drew Brees: 61.1% | 8760 yards | 57 TDs | 40 INTs | 6.65 YPA | 82.5

Mitch Trubisky: 63.2% | 8986 yards | 53 TDs | 31 INTs | 6.7 YPA | 86.1
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:27 pm

G08 wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:08 pm
dplank wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:28 pm


Yes, me as well. If Nagy announces it's Trubisky, I'll promptly order my wife to dust off her Trubisky jersey for Week 1 and we'll root for him to succeed!
This is what I like about you, it's not a "you vs me" type thing in having a different opinion. We all want the same fucking thing and that's for this God damned franchise to win a fucking Super Bowl.
Awww I love you too big guy! Seriously though, appreciate good honest debate that doesn't turn into a shit show! And damn straight....WE ARE GONNA BE A TOUGH SQUAD THIS YEAR!!!!!
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:18 pm

dplank wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:27 pm
G08 wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:08 pm


This is what I like about you, it's not a "you vs me" type thing in having a different opinion. We all want the same fucking thing and that's for this God damned franchise to win a fucking Super Bowl.
Awww I love you too big guy! Seriously though, appreciate good honest debate that doesn't turn into a shit show! And damn straight....WE ARE GONNA BE A TOUGH SQUAD THIS YEAR!!!!!
We could see if Gib could get a special pass to come and he could derail all that. :welcome: :angry: :frustrated:
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:22 pm

Arkansasbear wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:18 pm
dplank wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:27 pm


Awww I love you too big guy! Seriously though, appreciate good honest debate that doesn't turn into a shit show! And damn straight....WE ARE GONNA BE A TOUGH SQUAD THIS YEAR!!!!!
We could see if Gib could get a special pass to come and he could derail all that. :welcome: :angry: :frustrated:
Ha, he came here as drone7, I outed him, and then he eventually revealed what a piece of shit he is and UOK banned him.
Image

First 43 starts:

Drew Brees: 61.1% | 8760 yards | 57 TDs | 40 INTs | 6.65 YPA | 82.5

Mitch Trubisky: 63.2% | 8986 yards | 53 TDs | 31 INTs | 6.7 YPA | 86.1
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:40 am

dplank wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:24 pm
I sometimes wonder if the "pro Trubisky" crowd REALLY understand how bad he was last year?
I'm in the 'pro-Trubisky crowd'. I wanted us to draft him out of the big three that were available and I've been pulling for him ever since.

But last season, with a coupled of exceptions, he largely looked like dog shit. I really don't see him turning it around and I rate Foles higher than most do here.

I will be utterly delighted to be proven wrong on Mitch, but I really think he's done.
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Sat Sep 05, 2020 10:18 am

Johnny Bollocks wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:40 am

I'm in the 'pro-Trubisky crowd'. I wanted us to draft him out of the big three that were available and I've been pulling for him ever since.

But last season, with a coupled of exceptions, he largely looked like dog shit. I really don't see him turning it around and I rate Foles higher than most do here.

I will be utterly delighted to be proven wrong on Mitch, but I really think he's done.
Yep.
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:05 pm

Yea I think we can all agree at this point that we want Mitch to light it up!!! Let’s go kid!!!

And true to my word, my wife has her Trubisky jersey washed and ready!
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:57 pm

I've had one problem with your system analysis for Foles DP. Yes, it's true that he's played when he's played in the same system that we have. What you aren't accounting for though is the personnel, particularly along the OL. As you've so aptly pointed out time and again, our OL sucks ass. When Foles did perform well in our system, the teams he did that for had excellent offensive lines. Again, we don't. When you put Foles under pressure, he struggles. Hell, we proved that in our playoff game when he had our system and a good OL and he only went 25-40 for 266 yards with 2 TDs and 2 picks when we got pressure on him. And New Orleans followed that up the following week making him go 18-31 for 201 yards 1 TD and 2 picks because they put him under pressure.

Teams are going to get pressure on us this year. A healthy Trubs is better able to counteract that pressure with his legs than Foles is.
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:30 pm

Yogi da Bear wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:57 pm
I've had one problem with your system analysis for Foles DP. Yes, it's true that he's played when he's played in the same system that we have. What you aren't accounting for though is the personnel, particularly along the OL. As you've so aptly pointed out time and again, our OL sucks ass. When Foles did perform well in our system, the teams he did that for had excellent offensive lines. Again, we don't. When you put Foles under pressure, he struggles. Hell, we proved that in our playoff game when he had our system and a good OL and he only went 25-40 for 266 yards with 2 TDs and 2 picks when we got pressure on him. And New Orleans followed that up the following week making him go 18-31 for 201 yards 1 TD and 2 picks because they put him under pressure.

Teams are going to get pressure on us this year. A healthy Trubs is better able to counteract that pressure with his legs than Foles is.
In theory I could buy your argument, but then you put the actual player in there and the logic falls apart. Mitch did not counteract pressure last year, he wilted under pressure. Again, there are no excuses for him being a bottom 3, Henry Burris level QB last year. Somehow that keeps getting missed in this conversation. We saw exactly what Mitch looks like behind this OL Yogi, it's Henry Burris Part Deux. Maybe you need to go back and watch Mitch try and counteract pressure last year and see the actual results to remind yourself of how bad he was. We don't have to guess at it, we saw it. With Foles, your guessing cause we haven't seen him play behind our OL or in our system yet. I'll take the unknown over the shit show we saw last year all day every day.
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 6 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
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Re: Who Do You Think SHOULD Start: Trubisky or Foles

Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:16 pm

I just don't see any point in working so hard to make Foles look bad because of love for Mitch.

Foles has performed head & shoulders above Mitch in many stretches, and showed up as a clutch player in big games. Yeah he's had a couple of struggles - as have all QBs. But to point those out in light of what Mitch has thrown out there.... yikes. The comparison isn't close, really.
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