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Re: Update: Allen Robinson deletes Bears references on social media, rumored to want a trade
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:01 am
by wab
IE wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:39 am
I can totally understand the appreciation for ARob. He's very productive, especially considering who's been throwing to him. And really seems like a great guy - a good team guy (outside of this silly contract posturing).
But the "pay the man" seems devoid of context. Paying him $20MM WILL have impacts on the ability to keep other really good players who may have value over replacement greater than 12.
Could Wims put up a 63% catch rate over a season? And near 100 catches in 150+ looks? It seems like he could, even though his catch rate was abysmal last year in a much smaller sample. How about Ridley? I know he's an unproven rookie (ish), but isn't he kind of a victim of a depth chart log jam right now (that I'd call big, reliable possession receivers)? What is ARobs real value over these guys as replacements? Is it really $15MM a year? Plus wasting the 4th round Ridley pick?
How does anyone know they won't really like Ridley and Wims out there getting 70-75 looks each a season? And some of the former ARob end zone looks going to Kmet? And we need to consider the potential positive value of removing Mitch's pacifier so he can grow up right.
People calling him a top 5 WR in the NFL are delusional. You could make an argument that he's top 12.
DeAndre Hopkins
Michael Thomas
Tyreek Hill
Julio Jones
Mike Evans
Davante Adams
Keenan Allen
Amari Cooper
Chris Godwin
Stefon Diggs
Tyler Lockett
I'd put Robinson below those guys. Probably in the Golliday/Smith-Schuster/Kupp category.
This isn't saying he's a bum. Just that if he wants 25mil per, he's lost his mind.
Re: Update: Allen Robinson deletes Bears references on social media, rumored to want a trade
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:03 am
by G08
This is a part of the negotiating process -- I get it -- but doing it in season after a huge fucking win just is poor, poor optics.
I don't care for sulking bullshit.
Re: Update: Allen Robinson deletes Bears references on social media, rumored to want a trade
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:08 am
by wab
G08 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:03 am
This is a part of the negotiating process -- I get it -- but doing it in season after a huge fucking win just is poor, poor optics.
I don't care for sulking bullshit.
The timing certainly is weird. The talks have reportedly been going on since summer, so this isn't "new". I think what obviously escalated it is the removal of all Bears related stuff.
Seems selfish and that doesn't track with A-Rob's suggested persona.
Re: Update: Allen Robinson deletes Bears references on social media, rumored to want a trade
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:10 am
by The Cooler King
Man I really don't care about ARob in the context of "babying" Mitchell. He's gonna figure it out or he isn't. None of the personnel decisions should be made about what's best for Mitch at this point.
I don't know the exact market value difference should be between ARob and a potentially more cost effective replacement, but I definitely don't believe Wims or Ridley are those replacements. You're talking about at the very least going and getting someone on the FA market or drafting a high pick.
I'm also not too bullish on Miller simply for injury concerns. So I look at him as a no 2 guy at best, as long as you have depth, which Pace actually may have built. But I don't think they can just bump up everyone else on the food chain in the current roster.
Re: Update: Allen Robinson deletes Bears references on social media, rumored to want a trade
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:11 am
by The Cooler King
wab wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:08 am
G08 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:03 am
This is a part of the negotiating process -- I get it -- but doing it in season after a huge fucking win just is poor, poor optics.
I don't care for sulking bullshit.
The timing certainly is weird. The talks have reportedly been going on since summer, so this isn't "new". I think what obviously escalated it is the removal of all Bears related stuff.
Seems selfish and that doesn't track with A-Rob's suggested persona.
The only selfishness I care about is if he's out there at Halas Hall doing the same things he has always done.
Outside of that, he has every right to be selfish for himself.
Re: Update: Allen Robinson deletes Bears references on social media, rumored to want a trade
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:26 am
by HurricaneBear
The Cooler King wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:10 am
Man I really don't care about ARob in the context of "babying" Mitchell. He's gonna figure it out or he isn't. None of the personnel decisions should be made about what's best for Mitch at this point.
I don't know the exact market value difference should be between ARob and a potentially more cost effective replacement, but I definitely don't believe Wims or Ridley are those replacements. You're talking about at the very least going and getting someone on the FA market or drafting a high pick.
I'm also not too bullish on Miller simply for injury concerns. So I look at him as a no 2 guy at best, as long as you have depth, which Pace actually may have built. But I don't think they can just bump up everyone else on the food chain in the current roster.
I'm with you on this one. I may even more down on Miller. Really liked him at first but I have a very hard time seeing as a #1
Re: Update: Allen Robinson deletes Bears references on social media, rumored to want a trade
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:49 am
by IE
Holy crap, wab - seriously we think he's wanting OVER 20?
I'd add those other guys (Golladay, SS, Cupp) above 12 because they're much bigger deep threats. 12 is a highly productive possession receiver. The closest positive comp is Keenan Allen. No doubt his extension is what 12's team is using as a benchmark. Are they maybe similar? I can see it. Their problem, in my mind, is that San Diego overpaid and maybe (not sure) didn't have the replacement options the Bears do. That has to factor into it. It will, probably. "Yeah, that's too bad they overpaid, but we don't have to because of x and y and z".
Re: Update: Allen Robinson deletes Bears references on social media, rumored to want a trade
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:09 am
by wab
IE wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:49 am
Holy crap, wab - seriously we think he's wanting OVER 20?
I'd add those other guys (Golladay, SS, Cupp) above 12 because they're much bigger deep threats. 12 is a highly productive possession receiver. The closest positive comp is Keenan Allen. No doubt his extension is what 12's team is using as a benchmark. Are they maybe similar? I can see it. Their problem, in my mind, is that San Diego overpaid and maybe (not sure) didn't have the replacement options the Bears do. That has to factor into it. It will, probably. "Yeah, that's too bad they overpaid, but we don't have to because of x and y and z".
Well on the twitter, the general assumption is that he'll use Keenan Allen/Amari Cooper contracts as a starting point.
Re: Update: Allen Robinson deletes Bears references on social media, rumored to want a trade
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:19 am
by The Cooler King
wab wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:09 am
IE wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:49 am
Holy crap, wab - seriously we think he's wanting OVER 20?
I'd add those other guys (Golladay, SS, Cupp) above 12 because they're much bigger deep threats. 12 is a highly productive possession receiver. The closest positive comp is Keenan Allen. No doubt his extension is what 12's team is using as a benchmark. Are they maybe similar? I can see it. Their problem, in my mind, is that San Diego overpaid and maybe (not sure) didn't have the replacement options the Bears do. That has to factor into it. It will, probably. "Yeah, that's too bad they overpaid, but we don't have to because of x and y and z".
Well on the twitter, the general assumption is that he'll use Keenan Allen/Amari Cooper contracts as a starting point.
If that's the staring point, as in his first offer was 20m aav, this should get done. If we was starting at say 25m I could see why an extension might not get done.
I can't speak to Allen Robinsons mental state obviously, but I'd think if they were always far apart this would have happened in the offseason and we'd already know that he was going to hit FA this offseason long ago. For his posts all summer and now this change, leads me to believe they're close enough that be feels a deal ought to be done.
Re: Update: Allen Robinson deletes Bears references on social media, rumored to want a trade
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:30 am
by Boris13c
if this is such an issue for him, why wasn't it brought up prior to week 1?
or was it being talked about in pre-season and I just missed it?
as G08 said, the timing of his bitching and moaning is just very odd and I think will fuel animosity rather than cooperation ... maybe that is his goal? force a trade by being difficult?
Re: Update: Allen Robinson deletes Bears references on social media, rumored to want a trade
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:47 am
by The Cooler King
Boris13c wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:30 am
if this is such an issue for him, why wasn't it brought up prior to week 1?
or was it being talked about in pre-season and I just missed it?
as G08 said, the timing of his bitching and moaning is just very odd and I think will fuel animosity rather than cooperation ... maybe that is his goal? force a trade by being difficult?
He tweeted a lot this offseason about wanting a deal done. It was written about that a deal would likely be worked on.
Fwiw his agent denies the trade demand report.
He's trying a new negotiating tactic (possibly including a trade request). That's likely it.
Re: Update: Allen Robinson deletes Bears references on social media, rumored to want a trade
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:53 am
by wab
Boris13c wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:30 am
if this is such an issue for him, why wasn't it brought up prior to week 1?
or was it being talked about in pre-season and I just missed it?
as G08 said, the timing of his bitching and moaning is just very odd and I think will fuel animosity rather than cooperation ... maybe that is his goal? force a trade by being difficult?
It's been reported that the Bears and Robinson have been negotiating for a while.
It's no coincidence that Robinson was tweeting out cryptic messages 7th and Pace stated there was no deadline on the 8th.
Pure speculation on my part, but I wouldn't be surprised if Robinson's camp wanted something done by week 1.
Re: Update: Allen Robinson deletes Bears references on social media, rumored to want a trade
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:12 pm
by HurricaneBear
Boris13c wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:30 am
if this is such an issue for him, why wasn't it brought up prior to week 1?
or was it being talked about in pre-season and I just missed it?
as G08 said, the timing of his bitching and moaning is just very odd and I think will fuel animosity rather than cooperation ... maybe that is his goal? force a trade by being difficult?
Look at it from ARobs pov. He gets hurt and all the leverage he's built up since his last injury is gone. Talking millions of dollars. Especially since the two sides have been talking all summer. His frustration is not surprising.
The only people that will be upset about his actions are unprofessional teammates/coaches and of course the fans. The majority, if not all, of the team knows the business side of it and ARob is still showing up to work every day and on Sundays.
Re: Update: Allen Robinson deletes Bears references on social media, rumored to want a trade
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:19 pm
by G08
I'll tell you what: that takes some balls to be a man and take questions like he did today. 100% respect from me.
Re: Update: Allen Robinson deletes Bears references on social media, rumored to want a trade
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:22 pm
by wab
I have zero problems with Robinson using whatever negotiating tactics he and his representation deem appropriate. You can't deny though that it's a distraction in an already shaky season for the team.
Robinson's presser just now was interesting. He wouldn't get into his social media moves other than to say he's a "passionate person" and that there was a lot of "emotion" involved. Says he has a lot of love and respect for the team, fans, and organization and that people are seeing the business side of things now. When directly asked is he wanted to remain with the Bears he replied that he wasn't going to get into that.
Re: Update: Allen Robinson deletes Bears references on social media, rumored to want a trade
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:26 pm
by Moriarty
I didn't realize the status of next year's salary cap was likely such a sharp change.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14510
This is a huge impact for situations like ARob.
Can they get by without him?
The cap projections should be better known in a few weeks, I think - will they be any different?
He's really hitting FA at the wrong time.
You can be sulky about it, but those are the breaks when you're on a shared revenue structure and revenues go down.
Re: Update: Allen Robinson deletes Bears references on social media, rumored to want a trade
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:47 pm
by UOK
https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2020 ... irit-waver
Robinson said he expects to finish the season with the Bears.
“We’re in the clear with that,” Robinson said Wednesday.
Robinson said that “my heart and spirit has never wavered” when it comes to his desire to be one of the best Bears receivers of all time.
Nagy painted the conversation as constructive, and repeatedly pointed out that the Bears have a history of rewarding their own players financially.
“Me and coach Nagy have a great relationship,” he said. “As everybody knows, he’s a big reason as far as me coming to Chicago, just my belief in his spirit and how he brings it each and every day. So we had a very good and spirited conversation. Coach Nagy’s my guy. I’ve enjoyed playing for him. He’s been nothing but a great coach.”
Robinson said he tries to “compartmentalize” Sunday’s game against the Lions away from his contract talks.
“The biggest thing is me focusing on playing, which I’ve been doing,” he said.
Robinson scrubbed his social media accounts of Bears references. Robinson admitted that “took some emotion,” but said he has passion “for the city of Chicago and to put on a Bears uniform.”
Re: Update: Allen Robinson deletes Bears references on social media, rumored to want a trade
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:35 pm
by The Cooler King
wab wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:22 pm
You can't deny though that it's a distraction in an already shaky season for the team.
To the extent it is a distraction, I think things like this tend to get way overblown by fans. Of course every situation is unique or whatever, but this shouldn't be a big deal if the locker-room is "right".
Re: Discuss // Allen Robinson contract negotiation drama
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:04 pm
by otis
the bears would be nuts to pay him 20mil a year. wide receivers are kinda like running backs. lots of talented rookies to be had at a hell of alot less costs
Re: Update: Allen Robinson deletes Bears references on social media, rumored to want a trade
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:20 pm
by wab
The Cooler King wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:35 pm
wab wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:22 pm
You can't deny though that it's a distraction in an already shaky season for the team.
To the extent it is a distraction, I think things like this tend to get way overblown by fans. Of course every situation is unique or whatever, but this shouldn't be a big deal if the locker-room is "right".
That's completely fair. You are right, even Mitch said today that it's not an issue in the locker room or on the field.
Re: Update: Allen Robinson deletes Bears references on social media, rumored to want a trade
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:53 pm
by Umbali
Boris13c wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:30 am
if this is such an issue for him, why wasn't it brought up prior to week 1?
or was it being talked about in pre-season and I just missed it?
as G08 said, the timing of his bitching and moaning is just very odd and I think will fuel animosity rather than cooperation ... maybe that is his goal? force a trade by being difficult?
I specifically remember reading...most likely on bleacher report...pace saying that they wanted to get a deal done but with cap uncertainties in 2021 due to covid it was taking some time. So I think its just come to a head for Allen cus of seeing the other WRs get extensions.
Re: Update: Allen Robinson deletes Bears references on social media, rumored to want a trade
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:59 pm
by G08
wab wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:20 pm
The Cooler King wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:35 pm
To the extent it is a distraction, I think things like this tend to get way overblown by fans. Of course every situation is unique or whatever, but this shouldn't be a big deal if the locker-room is "right".
That's completely fair. You are right, even Mitch said today that it's not an issue in the locker room or on the field.
I love that Nagy talked to Robinson and they both, separately in their interviews, said how they have a great relationship with each other.
Nagy is one hell of a fucking leader, I will say that much.
Re: Discuss // Allen Robinson contract negotiation drama
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:48 pm
by Bad Flanders
He's just unlucky. This is the ONLY time in the last 50 years of NFL contracts where the longer you wait, the LESS money you'll likely get. Historically the contracts only go up, but next year the cap goes down... he knows this and obviously doesn't want what the Bears will pay and so now he's trying to race to another team that will pay him more right now, but the power is completely in Pace's hands...
He's just unlucky but it would be dumb of Pace to do anything differently right now.
Re: Discuss // Allen Robinson contract negotiation drama
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:36 pm
by G08
I think the WR tag will be around (likely under?) $18M. It's in our benefit to wait if the team couldn't come to an agreement with him.
Re: Discuss // Allen Robinson contract negotiation drama
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:56 am
by Arkansasbear
Re: Discuss // Allen Robinson contract negotiation drama
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:15 am
by dplank
G08 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:36 pm
I think the WR tag will be around (likely under?) $18M. It's in our benefit to wait if the team couldn't come to an agreement with him.
The WR tag is dropping over 2M from this year to next, Pace has leverage here. They need to settle on 17-18M and be done with it, ARob isn't going to get Keenan Allen's 20M, nor should he (and the Chargers were stupid for paying that IMO).
Re: Discuss // Allen Robinson contract negotiation drama
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:22 am
by Otis Day
This is how today's athletes play the business side of things. Not a big deal, par for the course.
Without social media this probably would not even be a thing.
Re: Discuss // Allen Robinson contract negotiation drama
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:00 pm
by RichH55
dplank wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:15 am
G08 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:36 pm
I think the WR tag will be around (likely under?) $18M. It's in our benefit to wait if the team couldn't come to an agreement with him.
The WR tag is dropping over 2M from this year to next, Pace has leverage here. They need to settle on 17-18M and be done with it, ARob isn't going to get Keenan Allen's 20M, nor should he (and the Chargers were stupid for paying that IMO).
Whats fair and what is needed are different beasts
I think the number needs to be pretty close to 15 a year
That Cooper Kupp is extension is where it needs to be at IMHO.
I think I read the Franchise number is going to be like 15.7
Re: Discuss // Allen Robinson contract negotiation drama
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:13 pm
by The Grizzly One
ARob is a very good WR. But he is not special.
Re: Discuss // Allen Robinson contract negotiation drama
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:16 pm
by RichH55
I kind of like the Dallas model - up the guarantees
Keenan Allen got 4 years 80 with 43 Guaranteed
Kupp got 3 years 48
Cooper 5 years 100 (63 Guaranteed)
Robinson probably wants something like:
3 Years 54 million, 4 Years 72-74 (presumably the 4 years would be something like 36ish Guaranteed
But if you go 3 Years 46-48 - but Guarantee like 40 of it - Then maybe that is where the middle meets
