Wk 6 // Bears def. Panthers 23-16

[The Grizzly One]

You young curmudgeon.

Oh yea of little faith. Don't make post the victory song here!

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

My thoughts on the game.


The Good
- Mooney is the goods. He is SMOOTH in his route running, and has good hands. He's a no nonsense WR that does his job well. Nice pick.
- Our pass rush is coming around. But I still think Pagano isn't being aggressive enough. Good against the run today.
- Johnson is an outstanding CB. I think he's better than Fuller. He's always in the right place. That PI call on him was total BS. That was beautiful defensive coverage.

The Bad
- Nagy is not a good play caller. His play calls do not increase the Bears momentum on offense. There is no rhythm to them. He says he uses the pass to open up the run. He did that. And then went away from what was working.
-Nick Foles is better at reading defenses and going through his progressions than Trubisky. But his arm strength sucks. There were a few passes that took forever to reach their target.
- Leno Jr. is now officially terrible. Like...put anyone else in with a pulse...bad. Our line showed promise to start the year, but has regressed significantly. I think missing Daniels on the left side has something to do with it.

Overall it was a good effort against a pretty good Carolina team. I thought our defense played really well, and it appears that they are starting to get their sea legs. I don't know what the coaching staff's affinity for Demitrius Harris is, but it needs to stop. Kmet is a FAR betting catching TE, and is being under utilized. They also need to get Ryan Nall out there more. I think he would be a good change of pace from Monty. Allen Robinson...pay that man.

[alexwilkins]

I recall TE Harris having a few bad plays in the passing game. I only want to see him blocking from now on.

[docc]

Rather see Harris as Security Guard at Target or somewhere..

[alexwilkins]

Just listened to Foles post-game presser. Holy shit. HYPE CITY!

[The Grizzly One]

Rather see Harris as Security Guard at Target or somewhere..

[HisRoyalSweetness]

They've got to try something to improve this offense.

They dumped one QB and the replacement isn't putting up any better numbers. The running game has been awful for three weeks in a row. Excuses were made against the Colts and the Buccaneers because their defenses ranked high, but the Panthers? TE production remains underwhelming. WRs don't frighten anyone. And at the heart of it all is a dire offensive line.

If guys can't cut it then give other guys a chance. They should be motivated by the opportunity.

Start by looking at the left side of the offensive line. Spriggs surely can't be worse than Leno. Bars is surely a better option than Coward.

Ginn isn't involved, Miller continues to offer little, so give Ridley a chance.

Harris is a liability in the passing game, so for goodness sake give those plays to Kmet. That's why you drafted him.

Maybe then Montgomery and Foles will start to put up better numbers.

Agree with your first sentence.
Disagree about QB. I suppose you could put up some stats to show Mitch making some good throws. We've had three games apiece from each, and I'd much much much rather have Foles. I think some of his accuracy issues will improve over the season, as well as figuring out a blocking scheme that can give him a little more time and open up some creases for Monty....

I don't know how you can disagree re. the QB spudbear; it's an immutable fact that Foles isn't putting up any better numbers than Trubisky, in fact he's putting up worse.

Trubisky
Comp %: 59.3, YPA: 6.5, TD%: 6.98, INT%: 3.49, Rating: 87.4

Foles
Comp %: 62.5, YPA: 5.8, TD%: 3.95, INT%: 2.63, Rating: 80.4

This isn't a comment on whether Trubisky or Foles is the better option, simply an observation that there has been no statistical improvement following the QB change. Any comments regarding Foles improving his accuracy or the blocking scheme being figured out as the season continues are pure projection at this stage. 3 games of Foles starting has not ignited this offense.

As I see it, the reason for this is because there are far more issues than just the QB. Comments about Trubisky holding Nagy back are proving unfounded. There are numerous other problems, starting with Nagy himself closely followed by the performance of the offensive line which started the season in encouraging fashion and has since fallen off a cliff these past 3 games.

We're 6 games into the season. Nagy's not shown any inclination of changing either his approach or his players other than the QB. It's the same old story from him nearly 2 and half years into his tenure.

[cblaz11]

Not really sure how anyone can complain about our D. We’ve given up 3 TDs in 3 games...Were getting pressure with 4, and we’re forcing turnovers(more of refs would get out the way)

Pagano isn’t Vic, but he’s got this D playing around a very high level.

On offense, there’s hope. I feel we’ve improved each week with Foles and I see hope that we can’t continue that improvement.

Look around the league...The Packers scored 10, Rams 16, Pats 12, 49ers 24....literally we’re 1 TD a game away from being a good offense.

I’m concerned with the running game but I liked what I saw in the 4th yesterday...we gotta get that figured out.

The oline has issues...but I’ll point out that Foles wasn’t sacked yesterday

[spudbear]

HRS
As I said, you can put up the stats. To my untrained armchair QB eyes, Foles just looks better and has control of the offense. And as you said, the problems on offense run deeper than QB. I see Foles having a better chance of making chicken salad out of the chicken shit we've seen lately. And head chicken Nagy is sticking to his recipe of porous OL, slants/screens/pop passes and ... oh yeah, lack of committing to the run game. The details are in the blocking. and who knows when that will be shored up?

[VA_Mountain_Bear]

Foles has a bit more poise, and is quicker to move through reads. Outside of that he isn't much different than Mitch., lacks the scrambling. I think it becomes clearer that the main issues are with the HC.

The D is getting better weekly, and if we can get a little combined boost from them and the O next week we have a decent chance to upset the Saints.

[wab]

Foles has a bit more poise, and is quicker to move through reads. Outside of that he isn't much different than Mitch., lacks the scrambling. I think it becomes clearer that the main issues are with the HC.

The D is getting better weekly, and if we can get a little combined boost from them and the O next week we have a decent chance to upset the Saints.

I know it's like the weird new cool thing to hate Nagy....but I mean it's entirely possible that the players also shoulder some responsibility. Miller, the entire left side of the OL, Robinson, Foles...all have made some pretty critical mistakes.

[IE]

Watching that tape in the other thread and I'm convinced the offense isn't that far off. Running game needs some attention. I'd like to see some other running backs get a chance. I'm starting to think that 32 is really just a 3rd down back type (a slow one at that). I know I know - the oline. But he looks SO slow and not quick out there.

[IE]

I do dislike some of Nagy's decisions. And it does bother me that he doesn't like running the ball. I can't help but believe that part of the team's struggle with running the ball is it just isn't as much of a priority to him.

But when I listen to people who seem to know what they're talking about breaking down what Nagy is doing... how can you not like it? Also how can anyone consider Foles roughly equivalent to Trubisky when they see what he's doing out there. Remember those games last year with an entire half of no offense? That's what I believe we would have seen against Indy, Tamps and maybe Carolina if 10 was still in there. Not each time but I think Nagy realized that was coming.

[The Cooler King]

Agree with your first sentence.
Disagree about QB. I suppose you could put up some stats to show Mitch making some good throws. We've had three games apiece from each, and I'd much much much rather have Foles. I think some of his accuracy issues will improve over the season, as well as figuring out a blocking scheme that can give him a little more time and open up some creases for Monty....

I don't know how you can disagree re. the QB spudbear; it's an immutable fact that Foles isn't putting up any better numbers than Trubisky, in fact he's putting up worse.

Trubisky
Comp %: 59.3, YPA: 6.5, TD%: 6.98, INT%: 3.49, Rating: 87.4

Foles
Comp %: 62.5, YPA: 5.8, TD%: 3.95, INT%: 2.63, Rating: 80.4

This isn't a comment on whether Trubisky or Foles is the better option, simply an observation that there has been no statistical improvement following the QB change. Any comments regarding Foles improving his accuracy or the blocking scheme being figured out as the season continues are pure projection at this stage. 3 games of Foles starting has not ignited this offense.

As I see it, the reason for this is because there are far more issues than just the QB. Comments about Trubisky holding Nagy back are proving unfounded. There are numerous other problems, starting with Nagy himself closely followed by the performance of the offensive line which started the season in encouraging fashion and has since fallen off a cliff these past 3 games.

We're 6 games into the season. Nagy's not shown any inclination of changing either his approach or his players other than the QB. It's the same old story from him nearly 2 and half years into his tenure.

Interesting. If there's one stat that they significantly differ on, it is pocket time/time to throw. Foles has cut that down, and as a result, sacks/pressures are down (one of Passer Ratings biggest weaknesses is it doesn't include sacks). In QBR, Mitch again has a slight edge as well, but both of these stats are fairly close for these guys (although to be fair, there is a really stark contrast between facing Detroit and NY verse facing IND, TB, CAR, and Foles obviously did much better against their common opponent, ATL).

Its certainly a closer comparison that I would have liked or guessed. Hopefully Foles can steady a bit and build upon this start... always helps to rack up some wins and take some pressure off.

[Z Bear]

Trubisky also had the luxury of a running game to support him, Foles has not.

[The Cooler King]

Rambling thought. Why don't we (as in we, the entire football community) just add sacks and yards lost to the passer rating formula?

Same exact formula, but add each sack to the ATT column. And subtract yards lost on sacks from Yards column.

The passer rating for Foles and Trubisky for example changes to 77.30 and 78.30 for Foles/Trubisky (respectively). Perhaps that also puts into some perspective how perilous the line between a 80 and 87 rating is (the sacks/yards lost respectively, are 4/43 and 7/58 for each player this year).

[Moriarty]

Rambling thought. Why don't we (as in we, the entire football community) just add sacks and yards lost to the passer rating formula?

Same exact formula, but add each sack to the ATT column. And subtract yards lost on sacks from Yards column.

The passer rating for Foles and Trubisky for example changes to 77.30 and 78.30 for Foles/Trubisky (respectively). Perhaps that also puts into some perspective how perilous the line between a 80 and 87 rating is (the sacks/yards lost respectively, are 4/43 and 7/58 for each player this year).

Yeah, as much as using stats is a good idea, the soundness of the metric is very important.

Sacks taken does matter as a QB

The other thing that really gets me is interesting relative to Foles/Trubisky comparisons.
I really despise the use of TD passes as such a prominent part of the Passer Rating Formula - which is by far the biggest differential in their numbers:

Trubisky
Comp %: 59.3, YPA: 6.5, TD%: 6.98, INT%: 3.49, Rating: 87.4

Foles
Comp %: 62.5, YPA: 5.8, TD%: 3.95, INT%: 2.63, Rating: 80.4

One QB (hypothetically) throws a 20 yd completion followed by a 1yd TD pass
QB B throws a 20 yd completion, followed by a 1yd TD dive
and A gets a vastly better rating for it? No thanks.

[IE]

I don't remember Mitch playing Indy, Tampa and Carolina.

[The Cooler King]

Rambling thought. Why don't we (as in we, the entire football community) just add sacks and yards lost to the passer rating formula?

Same exact formula, but add each sack to the ATT column. And subtract yards lost on sacks from Yards column.

The passer rating for Foles and Trubisky for example changes to 77.30 and 78.30 for Foles/Trubisky (respectively). Perhaps that also puts into some perspective how perilous the line between a 80 and 87 rating is (the sacks/yards lost respectively, are 4/43 and 7/58 for each player this year).

Yeah, as much as using stats is a good idea, the soundness of the metric is very important.

Sacks taken does matter as a QB

The other thing that really gets me is interesting relative to Foles/Trubisky comparisons.
I really despise the use of TD passes as such a prominent part of the Passer Rating Formula - which is by far the biggest differential in their numbers:

Trubisky
Comp %: 59.3, YPA: 6.5, TD%: 6.98, INT%: 3.49, Rating: 87.4

Foles
Comp %: 62.5, YPA: 5.8, TD%: 3.95, INT%: 2.63, Rating: 80.4

One QB (hypothetically) throws a 20 yd completion followed by a 1yd TD pass
QB B throws a 20 yd completion, followed by a 1yd TD dive
and A gets a vastly better rating for it? No thanks.

Yea, TDs are definitely a part of the weakness of QB rating, especially over too short a sample. Over a long enough sample, I think it does tend to even out. But the advanced-stat gurus will say it is still is weighted too heavily. Perhaps not as great for telling you how good a QB is, but still pretty good at telling you what happened.

A bit harder to find stats on drive length/points per drive between the two. Ideally if you look at that, it ideally helps to add some color to any TD variance that a small sample might be causing through a 3/4 game sample.

[dplank]

Continued debate re: Foles / Trubisky seems pointless to me. Nagy and the team have rightfully moved on from the Trubisky debacle. He was bad, an absolute bust, and not trending in the right direction even after 2+ full seasons in Nagy's offense. The fact that the stats are even close when one guy played against DET/NYG and the other against IND/TB/CAR, coupled with the fact that the guy with the easy defenses also had the luxury of being 2+ years into the system and familiarity with the players - well, it's really just not a reasonable comp. And as noted, the one common opponent was blowout city for Foles v Mitch. The team just looks more in control with Foles, you can see the players rally around him, you can see Nagy's comfort level with him, it's just.....obvious. It obviously has a ways to go still, and the OL is clearly going to make a highly efficient offense a pipe dream until it's addressed.

I wish Mitch nothing but success with his next team.

[The Cooler King]

Further down the rabbit hole of the disparity of D's played, and a promising look at the D's ahead...

Defensive passer rating
DET - 91.3 (15th)
NYG - 100.8 (23rd)
ATL - 114.1 (league worst)
IND - 71.7 (best in league)
TB - 82 (4th best)
CAR - 86.2 (6th best)

ETA:
Schedule ahead (Defense Passer Rating rank as of today)
Los Angeles (10)
New Orleans (29)
Tennessee (21)
Minnesota (x2) (30)
Green Bay (x2) (26)
Detroit (15)
Houston (31)
Jacksonville (27)

Or roughly, an average passer rating against of about 102-103 on the remaining schedule. So if Foles is even an average starting QB, a 100 passer rating the rest of the way should be the expectation. Our D is currently 2nd best at 73.5. If this D really is a top 5 unit... well there's some fun football ahead, with even average QB play.

Now that's enough optimism out of me.

[G08]

I must be a curmudgeon in my advanced age because the Bears are 5-1 and I'm not a believer at all right now. Lol. That was probably their best effort of the season though.

This is the strangest 5-1 season I've ever encountered. I should be 100x more thrilled and I'm not, it's weird.

[G08]

Agree with your first sentence.
Disagree about QB. I suppose you could put up some stats to show Mitch making some good throws. We've had three games apiece from each, and I'd much much much rather have Foles. I think some of his accuracy issues will improve over the season, as well as figuring out a blocking scheme that can give him a little more time and open up some creases for Monty....

I don't know how you can disagree re. the QB spudbear; it's an immutable fact that Foles isn't putting up any better numbers than Trubisky, in fact he's putting up worse.

Trubisky
Comp %: 59.3, YPA: 6.5, TD%: 6.98, INT%: 3.49, Rating: 87.4

Foles
Comp %: 62.5, YPA: 5.8, TD%: 3.95, INT%: 2.63, Rating: 80.4

This isn't a comment on whether Trubisky or Foles is the better option, simply an observation that there has been no statistical improvement following the QB change. Any comments regarding Foles improving his accuracy or the blocking scheme being figured out as the season continues are pure projection at this stage. 3 games of Foles starting has not ignited this offense.

As I see it, the reason for this is because there are far more issues than just the QB. Comments about Trubisky holding Nagy back are proving unfounded. There are numerous other problems, starting with Nagy himself closely followed by the performance of the offensive line which started the season in encouraging fashion and has since fallen off a cliff these past 3 games.

We're 6 games into the season. Nagy's not shown any inclination of changing either his approach or his players other than the QB. It's the same old story from him nearly 2 and half years into his tenure.

This. This. 100x this. For a QB that is known to take/hit deep shots, 5.8 YPA is atrocious.

It's clear to me that Nagy and the franchise has turned the page on Trubisky so I have no issue giving Foles time to figure this thing out; I am just uninspired by his play thus far (save for the 2nd half of the Atlanta game).

[GSH]

I feel better having Foles starting because he can at least read a defense and adjust pre-snap once in a while. Also, after that press conference, im all in on him as a leader, playing with heart.

That said, i dont hate having mitch as a backup who has shown he can win games. Simple as that.

5-1.

[mmmc_35]

The bears have a decisive qb, who can read defenses, and is agrresive. Where is that guy who fuckinging sucks at football again? Seriously Bear fans are such fucking masochists. We get it Foles isn't Brady or Farve. He isn't expected to be. But let's face it hes better then biscuit.

[IE]

The bears have a decisive qb, who can read defenses, and is agrresive. Where is that guy who fuckinging sucks at football again? Seriously Bear fans are such fucking masochists. We get it Foles isn't Brady or Farve. He isn't expected to be. But let's face it hes better then biscuit.

Yeah, and it isn't even close. Time to move on. I'm wondering even if Foles got dinged if we would see Bray first.

On the long ball and yardage on Foles' throws... they just can't run the ball. So the yardage average is less an indictment of Foles and more of a compliment to him being able generate offense considering that challenge... kind of a combination of pass average and "just doing what it takes to move the ball". I'd like to see if Lamar Miller or Pierce could help there.

Foles had a good rapport with DJax IIRC and has demonstrated he can get in synch with a burner. I'm going to give him more time with Mooney and Miller. Too bad re Tarik because the Bears need his speed. To me that is the team's biggest flaw right now - and a big flaw at that.

[MoFugger]

Yeah, and it isn't even close. Time to move on. I'm wondering even if Foles got dinged if we would see Bray first.

With Bray being on the practice squad, you shouldn't have to wonder very hard about that.

[G08]

Yeah, and it isn't even close. Time to move on. I'm wondering even if Foles got dinged if we would see Bray first.

With Bray being on the practice squad, you shouldn't have to wonder very hard about that.

[G08]

The bears have a decisive qb, who can read defenses, and is agrresive.

Is that whopping 5.8 yards per passing attempt doing it for ya, mmmc?

[wab]

I'm to the point now where I don't care how explosive and flashy the offense is. This is basically the 2001 Bears. And I can live with that for now.

I still think the Bears would've made it to the SB that year if not for Hugh F'n Douglas.

That's the train I'm riding right now.