I've had enough of Pag's putting LB's on WR's. ! AND his laying back w/ our DB's 8-10 yards ! Every QB we have played know they have easy out pass to a TE or back. Watching Danny T. in coverage is horrible ! When , When , do we attack as a D ?
Why don't he play Jackson and Fuller to their strengths ?
How soon do we fire Pagano ?
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I would say yesterday.
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Soon ...
Edit: put sound on when you play the YouTube video - it's only 5 seconds!
Edit: put sound on when you play the YouTube video - it's only 5 seconds!
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Not soon enough
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I'm no fan of Pagano's, but it bothers me to see almost everybody willing to accept him as the sacrificial lamb for the underachieving season, while abandoning all the (thoroughly justified) Nagy criticisms of just one month ago.
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It's not complicated. Nagy isn't going anywhere and the defense, one of the highest paid units in the NFL, is faltering.
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Is Pagano stuck with only one ILB and no decent Nickel? Just curious. That might hamstring a guy - especially along with a couple of overpaid underperforming OLBs.
$3MM a sack? Pass.
$3MM a sack? Pass.
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Also... TEN interceptions all year. Would have been EIGHT if it weren't for Roquan's 2 last week. Only SIX by DBs. Pathetic. It can't be just the coach.
Not defending Pagano - but there's some context here that seems to indict more than him.
Not defending Pagano - but there's some context here that seems to indict more than him.
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I don't see how whether Nagy is or isn't going anywhere is really relevant.
People here are free to give their opinions, whatever they may be, and regularly do, whether they expect the team to do what they want or not.
A large majority was screaming for his head 4 weeks ago.
Now the majority seems perfectly content to have him back.
I find that bothersome, because I don't see how he's earned such a massive turnaround of opinion.
It looks very much to me like people are easily distracted by recency and/or a convenient, palatable scapegoat.
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I don't think people are "perfectly content". I think people understand that the Bears are in the playoffs for the 2nd time in 3 years, and Nagy doesn't have a losing record. I think people realize that Nagy is likely going to return, so why continue to fruitlessly call for his head?Moriarty wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:09 pmI don't see how whether Nagy is or isn't going anywhere is really relevant.
People here are free to give their opinions, whatever they may be, and regularly do, whether they expect the team to do what they want or not.
A large majority was screaming for his head 4 weeks ago.
Now the majority seems perfectly content to have him back.
I find that bothersome, because I don't see how he's earned such a massive turnaround of opinion.
It looks very much to me like people are easily distracted by recency and/or a convenient, palatable scapegoat.
Conversely, the board overall was fairly ambiguous about Pagano early in the season. But there were complaints about his lack of creativity and aggression along with questions about how he's using Jackson and Mack. The defense was healthy, and up until about a month ago, was performing well enough. Now the defense is kind of a problem.
So it's not complicated, nor are the two things really even related. No one is wasting emotional energy on a guy who isn't going anywhere right now. Also, Pagano's issues have really been highlighted, so he's rightfully under a microscope.
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That's completely fair, wab. The context on this one is, if all the DCs who gave up 30 to Rodgers were in trouble, the entire damn league is. LOL
And it SUCKS SO BAD!
And it SUCKS SO BAD!
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Sadly I think this is another instance where we will see the worst side of Nagy. His whole "Be You" schtick and generally overly prideful ways hurt him because he generally can't admit when he's made a mistake. Pagano was a mistake.
I generally commend people for showing loyalty and for giving things time to get sorted out. The NFL is simply not a place where these qualities pay off however. Despite all of the evidence that Pagano is not a good match for our defense I think Nagy will hang on to him out of "loyalty" and it's gonna be a train wreck.
I generally commend people for showing loyalty and for giving things time to get sorted out. The NFL is simply not a place where these qualities pay off however. Despite all of the evidence that Pagano is not a good match for our defense I think Nagy will hang on to him out of "loyalty" and it's gonna be a train wreck.
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Yes ,we have seen the slowest LB's on WR's , Always playing DB's 8 yards off , which makes a easy pass out to a check down , NEVER playing a Blitz after it fails , He " Put everything on the table" last game ,LOL . He's not aggressive .
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I don’t think ANYBODY is excusing Nagy! I think everybody can see that Mack is a shell of what we paid for when he got here, he has all sorts of “plays that don’t show up on the stats sheet” every game, but no sacks, no tackles, no QB pressures. I’m tired of the “he’s doubled every play” BS while Donald in LA also is, yet he’s extremely successful wrecking games with our cast-off Lloyd as his side-kick. Oh, Lloyd has also been quite successful this season.
We get ZERO turnovers! There’s never any fumbles or INT’s.
You’re playing the Bears, it’s 3rd and 18, you need a first down...here’s the play you run that works EVERY. SINGLE. TIME....slant to the middle of the field. There will be a massive hole, you will have an automatic first down. You dropped the ball, run the play again on 4th down...IT WILL STILL WORK!
All the negative stuff I just said...it was the COMPLETE opposite when Fangio was here. That hole in the middle of the field you just run a slant too for an easy 1st (and really you could just run that play and abandon the run completely, it will always work, you would never punt) was gone. Mack was dominating with Lloyd playing mediocre. Sacks were plenty, fumbles were plenty, INT’s were plenty, DB’s knew how to actually catch a ball.
This scheme is HORRIBLE and clearly doesn’t play to anybody’s strengths. I’ll say this, I’m furious Mack stole a Pro Bowl appearance from Roquan...Mack didn’t deserve it.
So what changed with Pro Bowl players at every level of this defense, clearly not the players...PAGANO!
That’s why Pagano is receiving the blame for the Defense...he’s the problem. I don’t think anybody is excusing Nagy, I’d still like to see him fired, I have ZERO faith in him. If he’s being kept though, Pagano HAS to go! Both sides of the ball can’t suck, especially when there’s clear talent not being utilized on the defense.
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Who is "perfectly content"? If anything, it feels like most everyone now wants Pagano gone.wab wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:53 pmI don't think people are "perfectly content". I think people understand that the Bears are in the playoffs for the 2nd time in 3 years, and Nagy doesn't have a losing record. I think people realize that Nagy is likely going to return, so why continue to fruitlessly call for his head?Moriarty wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:09 pm
I don't see how whether Nagy is or isn't going anywhere is really relevant.
People here are free to give their opinions, whatever they may be, and regularly do, whether they expect the team to do what they want or not.
A large majority was screaming for his head 4 weeks ago.
Now the majority seems perfectly content to have him back.
I find that bothersome, because I don't see how he's earned such a massive turnaround of opinion.
It looks very much to me like people are easily distracted by recency and/or a convenient, palatable scapegoat.
Conversely, the board overall was fairly ambiguous about Pagano early in the season. But there were complaints about his lack of creativity and aggression along with questions about how he's using Jackson and Mack. The defense was healthy, and up until about a month ago, was performing well enough. Now the defense is kind of a problem.
So it's not complicated, nor are the two things really even related. No one is wasting emotional energy on a guy who isn't going anywhere right now. Also, Pagano's issues have really been highlighted, so he's rightfully under a microscope.
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Here’s an idea: stop trying to out smart everyone with exotic blitzes. Play good sound defense and let your athletes play fast and aggressive, downhill football. If they get beat they get beat. You’re making all about you Chuck, and it’s UGLY. Pagano and Nagy are infuriatingly similar in this regard.
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That's my entire premise - people have shifted their anger from Nagy to Pagano.G08 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:11 pmWho is "perfectly content"? If anything, it feels like most everyone now wants Pagano gone.wab wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:53 pm
I don't think people are "perfectly content". I think people understand that the Bears are in the playoffs for the 2nd time in 3 years, and Nagy doesn't have a losing record. I think people realize that Nagy is likely going to return, so why continue to fruitlessly call for his head?
Conversely, the board overall was fairly ambiguous about Pagano early in the season. But there were complaints about his lack of creativity and aggression along with questions about how he's using Jackson and Mack. The defense was healthy, and up until about a month ago, was performing well enough. Now the defense is kind of a problem.
So it's not complicated, nor are the two things really even related. No one is wasting emotional energy on a guy who isn't going anywhere right now. Also, Pagano's issues have really been highlighted, so he's rightfully under a microscope.
They wanted Nagy out of town ASAP.
Then, suddenly, they are perfectly content with Nagy.
Now they blame the underachieving season on Pagano instead.
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I wouldn't say anyone is perfectly content, though. I think it's more of an acceptance based on the culmination of the regular season. I think he has his flaws but I also am willing to understand that he's an extremely young coach with even less experience calling plays.
Pagano is the inverse, he's an experienced coach in the League and the unit where the majority of our cap is invested is underperforming. If they come out and play like gangbusters against the Saints in the Wild Card game, maybe my opinion will change a bit. Again, it's an incomplete picture but I am not liking what I am seeing/hearing thus far.
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Pretty much this.G08 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:07 pmI wouldn't say anyone is perfectly content, though. I think it's more of an acceptance based on the culmination of the regular season. I think he has his flaws but I also am willing to understand that he's an extremely young coach with even less experience calling plays.
Pagano is the inverse, he's an experienced coach in the League and the unit where the majority of our cap is invested is underperforming. If they come out and play like gangbusters against the Saints in the Wild Card game, maybe my opinion will change a bit. Again, it's an incomplete picture but I am not liking what I am seeing/hearing thus far.
I've been one of Nagy's biggest supporters but when it looked like he lost the team I was ready to move on. But then the team got their shit together and started playing hard again for him. Nagy is young and has a lot of potential. People nitpick him far too much. We hired an offensive guy without a lot of experience and then gave him chicken shit and expected chicken salad. Look how this teams spent their resources. The year we spent on O, 2018, the offense performed pretty well. As we've spent less and less the production has gone down. Not a coincidence. I'd really like to see how Nagy does with talent on the O and SPEED as well as Kmet not being a rookie. This system needs speed and a good TE and we haven't seen it operate with either of those yet.
On D we gave Pagano a D that had been ascending for years and looked to have added the missing piece in Mack. They were coming off an elite season that would hard to be replicated but had All Pro talent in multiple spots across all 3 levels. I feared losing Fangio would be a tough pill as he's one of the all time great DCs imo but it shouldn't have impacted the D this much. The D is experienced, has played together for YEARS now, and is extremely talented. There is no reason they should be a middle of the road D who can't get sacks or turnovers. Sure the players share some responsibility, especially the last few weeks. But Pagano was NEVER the defensive guru he was made out to be and he's shown it by turning an aggressive attacking D into a bend but don't break shell of what it was. He deserves the blame he is getting. And as G08, he's been in this game for decades. He has no excuse of inexperience or hope of growth. His D sank this team once the O finally got their shit together.
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Well they did drop a sure 3 ints on Sunday. Is that Pagano's fault? I am not stepping up for him but there have dropped ints all season long.donkeykong wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:35 pmWe get ZERO turnovers! There’s never any fumbles or INT’s.
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I will say it's very telling that fans seemingly attack Pagano for opposite reasons. I'd love to see a poll of the fans base with the reasons they don't like Pagano. I think it's be like 50:50 on competing/contradictory complaints.
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No one is blaming the underachieving season on Pagano, and no one is perfectly content with Nagy.
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“The defense sucks” seems to be pretty consistent.The Cooler King wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:57 am I will say it's very telling that fans seemingly attack Pagano for opposite reasons. I'd love to see a poll of the fans base with the reasons they don't like Pagano. I think it's be like 50:50 on competing/contradictory complaints.
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Yep.Burl wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:50 am“The defense sucks” seems to be pretty consistent.The Cooler King wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:57 am I will say it's very telling that fans seemingly attack Pagano for opposite reasons. I'd love to see a poll of the fans base with the reasons they don't like Pagano. I think it's be like 50:50 on competing/contradictory complaints.
Pagano took over an Elite group - immediately made it merely above average and then took it down another notch.
This isn't about the Packers game alone
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Is it Pagano's fault Mack is underachieving? EJax is underachieving? That Quinn is not achieving shit? Is it Pags fault that DT can't cover anyone let alone a WR? Is it Pags fault that the depth on the D, LBs on back, sucks?
I think the D is underachieving to an extent due to individuals who are underachieving.
I think the D is underachieving to an extent due to individuals who are underachieving.
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Outside of DB/LB depth (which when you lose front line starters on any team will be a problem) I do indeed blame those things on Pagano.Otis Day wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:14 am Is it Pagano's fault Mack is underachieving? EJax is underachieving? That Quinn is not achieving shit? Is it Pags fault that DT can't cover anyone let alone a WR? Is it Pags fault that the depth on the D, LBs on back, sucks?
I think the D is underachieving to an extent due to individuals who are underachieving.
Quinn went from 11 Sacks last year with Dallas to 2 Sacks this year with the Bears.
Leonard Floyd went from 3 Sacks Last year with the Bears to 10.5 Sacks this year with the Rams.
Mack went from 12.5 sacks with Fangio and has not reached double digit sacks in the two seasons Pagano has led this defense.
Seeing a trend here?
Eddie Jackson went from All-Pro to Just a guy.
Fuller, to a lesser extent, has disappointed also.
It's across the board. These are the same athletes with worse results.
Only Roquan has gotten better. Everyone else is worse. Why would that be?