Future QB Discussion

G08 · Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:48 am

Wasn't sure if this belonged in the Foles/Trubisky thread, if so please merge.

Well, here we are. Standing in line for another spin on the never ending Chicago Bears QB Ferris Wheel.

I'm sure my thoughts will change numerous times this off-season as more information becomes available regarding our scheme, available QBs in FA or via trade, potential draft picks etc. We will have our options but how does one maxamize a run in 2021 while developing a QB for the future?

I can envision a scenario in which Mitch Trubisky returns, with another off-season fully dedicated on tweaking the "Shanahan" offense that we were running late in the season. In doing to, you can focus on drafting at WR and OL with our first two picks. Place a heavy emphasis on running the ball, hope your defense returns to form and bang out 10 wins and save your jobs (Nagy and Pace).

Another scenario involves Nick Foles being our starter, no questions asked, with a cheap veteran backup as QB2. In this instance, we might have to trade up to draft a young QB (unless someone we like falls to us at 20). We likely will have to spend multiple picks on the OL and potentially rely on a day 2/3 rookie WR or a second tier FA to contribute immediately.

The final scenario is trading picks for Sam Darnold. Not sure what the cost would be, I'd imagine at least a 2nd and a 6th (Josh Rosen went for a 2 and a 5 IIRC). Darnold only has one year remaining on his contract so I think he would be the starter with Foles being a helpful backup. Perhaps trade down in the first to recoup some picks and then focus on OL and WR. We need more speed at the position and protection for the QB.

Regardless, these clowns have their work cut out for them. Either Nagy has a "come to Jesus" moment and abandons his bullshit offense or he doubles down and we put resources into hoping Foles will be our savior. I think the Sam Darnold route would be a stretch, but you never know with this franchise.

Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:52 am

I mean, it's the offseason, so what the hell ever. Go nuts.

IMHO you draft Mac Jones at 20 and keep Foles. You start Foles. You lose with Foles no matter what.

There's no draft capital, no contract space, very little flexibility for 2021 at ALL. You have no choice but to issue 1-yr deals and let the cookie crumble. Jones or whatever QB you draft shouldn't see the field at all. That should be for the next head coach and GM to decide.

Basically nothing this franchise does this year matters because they were built to win it all in 2018/2019 and they utterly failed. So now we're fucked for at least 2, more likely 3 years.

Z Bear · Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:00 am

I said this in one of the other threads, but there are 3 options I see for next season:

1) Over draft Mac Jones or Kyle Trask in the first, if you cannot trade down to 25-30
2) Trade up in front of NE if Trey Lance is still on the board
3) Trade a 2nd or 3rd for Darnold

Watson will cost too much in cap room and draft picks to realistically acquire. None of the Day 3 QBs will be of any use in 2021, so then you will be starting Foles until he gets hurt. I am leaning towards 1 or 3, Trey Lance does not really excite me, too little shaky play this year. I am putting Jones and Trask through the wringer and selecting the one I feel best about. That is if Jones' mom lets him go the the NFL.

Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:11 am

I think the Bears will make a pitch for Winston, keep Foles, and draft a guy in R3 or later.

If that fails, they will bring in a young-ish vet like Nate Sudfeld or Jacoby Brissett to pair with Foles and whoever they draft in R1 or R2. Then they will throw a bunch of UDFA and street free agent types at the wall in camp to see if anything sticks...much like how they attempted to solve the kicker competition in 2019.

It's possible they trade Foles for a bag of balls in camp if another team loses a QB to injury and not have to eat much (according to OTC).

Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:18 am

This all sounds like shit.

Moriarty · Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:20 am

As I've been saying - letting guys who won't be here to see the end of his rookie contract pick your next top QB, to learn a system that will be gone in a year, is a complete organizational fuckup. But very unsurprisingly Bearsian. We'll see if the McCaskeys have set limits on how early he can draft one, but I really doubt it. This is just a bad franchise.

The most ready guy liable to be there is probably Mac Jones and that's my overwhelming expectation right now.

dplank · Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:39 am

I like the idea of drafting Mac Jones and letting him sit behind Foles for a year. I think we have to trade up to get him though, so keep that in mind.

I wouldn’t dismiss Foles to the degree some of you do - he has an incomplete grade. The undeniable fact is that he played half a season here, with zero training camp in a new team/offense, and played during a stretch where our OL was in shambles AND we played 5 Top 10 defenses at the same time. I know how much people hate him, I urge caution there as he may very well be the QB and he didn’t have any chance out there. So maybe with a year in the system and some focused improvement on the OL, I could see decent play from Foles.

I could get excited about Winston I suppose but he’s such a turd and maybe a rapist?

What I’d really like to do is get Dak or Watson. I’d give up 3 firsts for Watson, and his cap hit is just 10M next year. And I’d cut multiple players to fit Dak into our cap if that were a possibility. Bold/expensive move but would actually solve our QB problem for the first time EVER!

G08 · Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:41 am

I'm looking at this FA list and Trubisky is the best option IMO:

Prescott - not going to happen
Rivers - old as shit
Brissett - eh, maybe?
Fitzpatrick - old as shit
Taylor - eh, maybe?
McCarron - nope
Dalton - nope
Winston - turnover machine
Mullens - I like him but he's not built for this Nagy bullshit

IE · Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:47 am

After the performances to end the season, it was clear that the 3 game win streak was just the eye of the hurricane of bad.

We're in moral hazard territory here, because Pace is in deep as a GM and needs to swing for the fence to keep his job. He's been given a short additional (4th) chance at the QB position, and he's going to swing hard.

There isn't time for patient build or QB development. I believe there is a strong likelihood Pace mortgages the future for a Watson (or maybe a Stafford or Ryan). I believe the current "available QBs" list is false, because it ignores what will likely happen in the next few months. I do think that Mitch can be gotten cheap, but I'm pretty sure Nagy believes he can't keep his job with Mitch under center. He showed his hand when he yanked Mitch when it was obvious he was looking down a murderer's row of games going forward and Mitch wasn't going to win any. It worked at first with the ATL comeback and Tampa win. But then the Oline went down and exposed Foles' limitations and the whole thing went to shit and Foles couldn't win either. Plank - you're right the news of Foles' death is greatly exaggerated.

Anyway, I think we're looking at a big name FA QB with Foles at backup maybe even keeping Bray - but no QB draft pick. That's my prediction. A new QB isn't going to buy Pace time. He needs to win. Now.

What I would like is different than what I think will happen. What I want:

GM and Coach contract dynamics aside, I think they have to draft a QB but I think an OT in the first (or Pitts if they get really lucky) and then roll the dice hoping for Jones or Trask in the 2nd is the right direction. They won't drop to 52 or whatever - so I think using some of the "house money" from Champ Kelly (one of the 3rd rounders) would enable a move up. I think they have to take the chance of a QB falling, and if they miss look to the next tier of QBs & make a bet on one.

Then that guy should be protected QB 3 while the team rolls with Foles and a journeyman backup through 2021. It won't be a full tank because Foles will be decent at times behind a better Oline and bums will be slayed. It would be fine with me if around game 10 Nagy gets nervous he's on trajectory to get fired with a 7-9 record, and starts the rookie out of desperation. It won't work because the team and offense is bad because of him. He will never realize why his football fantasies don't become real on Sundays.

Then after a 6-10 or 7-9 season, Nagy gets fired but the cupboard is not bare and the team can invest yet more on the Oline, D and continue to build the QB depth chart with young prospects.

HisRoyalSweetness · Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:49 am

UOK wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:18 am This all sounds like shit.

Z Bear · Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:51 am

No way the Bears are keeping Trubisky, that ship has sailed. Pretty much everyone on the presser said they need to get the QB right, that ain't rolling with Mitch again.

Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:58 am

To @wab 's and others points, there's simply NO way to fix things. This team needs to sleep in the bed it's made for at least two years, more likely three.

It's not quite as bad and fucked as the Trestman/Emery stuff, but in some ways it's worse because you now know that accountability doesn't exist and the Bears are run by an open-faced sandwich of sycophants, idiots, and nepotists.

dplank · Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:05 am

If that’s the case uok (and I tend to agree with you on that) then shouldn’t we be pushing for a purge to get draft capital, future cap relief, etc? The full gut/rebuild thing?

IE · Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:06 am

UOK wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:58 am To @wab 's and others points, there's simply NO way to fix things. This team needs to sleep in the bed it's made for at least two years, more likely three.

It's not quite as bad and fucked as the Trestman/Emery stuff, but in some ways it's worse because you now know that accountability doesn't exist and the Bears are run by an open-faced sandwich of sycophants, idiots, and nepotists.

Ouch. LOL

I agree with your assessment. I expect failure as long as Nagy is on board. And since Nagy is still on board I now expect failure as long as Pace is on board. Yesterday I said I'm starting to agree that the entire organization needs an enema (e.g. Like the new young Lions boss said "enough" and cleaned house mid season - that was awesome). I do think that is the case. But... it is still entirely possible that when they fire Pace and Nagy after next year they just plain get lucky with the next regime. It can happen... they might accidentally stumble across it and hire someone good. So for that possibility only, I remain bullish in the short term (after next year).

dplank · Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:24 am

I’d like to see Nagys offense with a decent OL, we haven’t seen that yet and I hold out some small hope that if the OL gets corrected it could all magically start working.

Burl · Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:32 am

UOK wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:58 am To @wab 's and others points, there's simply NO way to fix things. This team needs to sleep in the bed it's made for at least two years, more likely three.

It's not quite as bad and fucked as the Trestman/Emery stuff, but in some ways it's worse because you now know that accountability doesn't exist and the Bears are run by an open-faced sandwich of sycophants, idiots, and nepotists.

C'mon man "accountability doesn't exist"... Jesus, the team wasn't 2-14 or something.
I have no love for Nagy, but the guy hasn't had single losing season and is still quite young as far as coaches go. As-is the GM.
Giving them a bit more time doesn't seem like the end of the world to me.

What does grind my gears a little bit is that Pace went all-in last season to try and take advantage of the defensive window, which leaves us strapped for cash. But there's still young talent on this team. Yes, there are some vets, but by the team the next QB is drafted and trained up, they'll be out the door.

DevilsProspect · Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:32 am

Trade Foles for Darnold straight up.

Jets get bridge QB
Bears get a young QB which may do better in different situation. Take someone like Newman in 3rd round.

Burl · Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:34 am

I'd definitely like to have Darnold for a year just to see what he's got. Heck maybe it works out.

dplank · Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:37 am

Burl wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:34 am I'd definitely like to have Darnold for a year just to see what he's got. Heck maybe it works out.

Hell yea is this possible?

IE · Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:44 am

I kinda like Darnold but it is really hard to not look at his performance and wonder if he's capable of lifting the performance of players around him like I'd like to see from the starting QB. I hate winning in spite of a QB. But if he can be gotten cheaply it seems like kicking the tires on him might make sense. I don't know if Foles is close to enough - might need to be Foles and a 3rd.

Nagy's win/loss record is an embarrassment not a reason for giving him more time. It's exactly like the criticism Bear leaders are getting now from trying to turn a 6 game losing streak into a positive because they got a few games against bad teams. 8-8 is absolute hell and nothing else. That basically means never beating the Packers or hardly anyone else good. It means like 1 or maybe 2 quality wins per season. Horrible.

DevilsProspect · Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:58 am

IE wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:44 am I kinda like Darnold but it is really hard to not look at his performance and wonder if he's capable of lifting the performance of players around him like I'd like to see from the starting QB. I hate winning in spite of a QB. But if he can be gotten cheaply it seems like kicking the tires on him might make sense. I don't know if Foles is close to enough - might need to be Foles and a 3rd.

Nagy's win/loss record is an embarrassment not a reason for giving him more time. It's exactly like the criticism Bear leaders are getting now from trying to turn a 6 game losing streak into a positive because they got a few games against bad teams. 8-8 is absolute hell and nothing else. That basically means never beating the Packers or hardly anyone else good. It means like 1 or maybe 2 quality wins per season. Horrible.

Yeah, The middle of the road team is tiring. Guess that’s what happens when you overpay a couple of the wrong FAs and trade picks away. Grrr

Not sure with a possible trade Foles/Darnold, in terms of cost. But could see the swap. I mean who knows, maybe Peterson ends up there and would like Foles since they have history? Lol. If Jets take Fields than they might want to just move on.

What would be wild is if Peterson went to Jags, and Bears traded Foles right back to them. Lol

Burl · Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:59 am

I feel like people get "mediocre/middling" and "horrible" confused around here.

G08 · Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:09 pm

Burl wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:59 am I feel like people get "mediocre/middling" and "horrible" confused around here.

They do.

I don't by the no accountability shit either. Lovie was whacked and hasn't gone on to do anything amounting to success when it comes to football.

Emery and Trestman were viewed as mistakes and fired accordingly.

Pace came in and was tasked with an overhaul, one that he was transparent about with ownership, and revamped everything from the scouting department to Halas Hall. His hand was-picked coach has a winning record and made the playoffs 2 out of the past 3 seasons.

None of this screams "fire them all", to me. People also don't realize this will be one of the most complicated drafts in NFL history. So we should fire the GM, bring in someone brand new and have them run this draft blind? Come on now, that is horrible planning.

G08 · Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:11 pm

I also think the awkwardness regarding Pace's contract is because they extended him to match Nagy's contract (ends after the 2022 season).

They'll have their shot at a QB here and a chance to unleash him in 2022. Just my guess.

mmmc_35 · Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:12 pm

How much would Jacoby Brissett cost?

IE · Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:18 pm

Burl wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:59 am I feel like people get "mediocre/middling" and "horrible" confused around here.

It depends on the game you're playing. And the broader context of course. 8-8 in the AFC North is different than the NFC East, and that can't be disputed seriously.

And here we are, arguing for Matt Nagy when the Jags are hiring Urban Meyer. Damn. Do we want to win football games, or not?

Otis Day · Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:22 pm

My only comments on this: DON'T FUCK IT UP............AGAIN!!!!!!!!

Boris13c · Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:26 pm

G08 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:09 pm
Burl wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:59 am I feel like people get "mediocre/middling" and "horrible" confused around here.
They do.

I don't by the no accountability shit either. Lovie was whacked and hasn't gone on to do anything amounting to success when it comes to football.

Emery and Trestman were viewed as mistakes and fired accordingly.

Pace came in and was tasked with an overhaul, one that he was transparent about with ownership, and revamped everything from the scouting department to Halas Hall. His hand was-picked coach has a winning record and made the playoffs 2 out of the past 3 seasons.

None of this screams "fire them all", to me. People also don't realize this will be one of the most complicated drafts in NFL history. So we should fire the GM, bring in someone brand new and have them run this draft blind? Come on now, that is horrible planning.

well, "horrible planning" does come into play now and again with the Bears ... but I get what you're saying

IE · Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:29 pm

Otis Day wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:22 pm My only comments on this: DON'T FUCK IT UP............AGAIN!!!!!!!!

It is OK as long as Nagy keeps up the good culture, and he and Pace collaborate effectively while they're meeting the extremely low bar set for them. Losing and mediocrity is fine - just No Turds!

Boris13c · Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:29 pm

IE wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:18 pm
Burl wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:59 am I feel like people get "mediocre/middling" and "horrible" confused around here.
It depends on the game you're playing. And the broader context of course. 8-8 in the AFC North is different than the NFC East, and that can't be disputed seriously.

And here we are, arguing for Matt Nagy when the Jags are hiring Urban Meyer. Damn. Do we want to win football games, or not?

Urban Meyer is a self promoting over rated tool who will quit the Jags when things get tough just as he quit everywhere else he has been ... Jacksonville may actually have a 2 - 3 year revival, but then that will end as Meyer hits the road yet again