Future QB Discussion

[wab]

Yeah, I don't know why everyone is over the moon about Urban Meyer. He's kind of a flake.

The Jags will get a nice shot in the arm for a couple of seasons, but I don't see any longevity there.

[IE]

It depends on the game you're playing. And the broader context of course. 8-8 in the AFC North is different than the NFC East, and that can't be disputed seriously.

And here we are, arguing for Matt Nagy when the Jags are hiring Urban Meyer. Damn. Do we want to win football games, or not?

Urban Meyer is a self promoting over rated tool who will quit the Jags when things get tough just as he quit everywhere else he has been ... Jacksonville may actually have a 2 - 3 year revival, but then that will end as Meyer hits the road yet again

OK well I don't like him either. There are a lot of coaches I don't like but would want to see coach the Bears. But enjoy the good Nagy "culture" I guess.

[IE]

Anyway back on topic: I used to prefer Trask over Jones. But man, Jones was in full control on Monday against what looked like an NFL-level defense against Clemson a week earlier. That's hard to ignore. I supposed Bama's offensive dominance is an explanation. But I'm pretty sure I saw him making big plays demonstrating great vision and awareness while being pressured by a really good D.

Both Jones and Fields have really impressed me over the past few weeks. If Fields fell in the first for whatever reason (it happens) or Jones into the 2nd I really hope Pace goes for it.

[wab]

Urban Meyer is a self promoting over rated tool who will quit the Jags when things get tough just as he quit everywhere else he has been ... Jacksonville may actually have a 2 - 3 year revival, but then that will end as Meyer hits the road yet again

OK well I don't like him either. There are a lot of coaches I don't like but would want to see coach the Bears. But enjoy the good Nagy "culture" I guess.

It's odd that everyone is upset over something happening that everyone reasonably expected to happen.

This team wasn't going anywhere next season anyway.

[IE]

OK well I don't like him either. There are a lot of coaches I don't like but would want to see coach the Bears. But enjoy the good Nagy "culture" I guess.

It's odd that everyone is upset over something happening that everyone reasonably expected to happen.

This team wasn't going anywhere next season anyway.

I can fully expect something to happen and still hate it when it does.

wab - do you think there is any chance Jones falls into the Bear range in the 2nd?

[WagonForce]

To @wab 's and others points, there's simply NO way to fix things. This team needs to sleep in the bed it's made for at least two years, more likely three.

It's not quite as bad and fucked as the Trestman/Emery stuff, but in some ways it's worse because you now know that accountability doesn't exist and the Bears are run by an open-faced sandwich of sycophants, idiots, and nepotists.

This is where I'm at. It's going to take time to build this team into something that can actually compete for the division/make some noise in the playoffs. Where I get downtrodden is Pace and Nagy will feel urgency to show results.

I'm trying not to get too fired up about this because it will just lead to disappointment but what I don't want to see is any trading up by Pace to go after a QB, or anyone for that matter. He should take his lesson from Trubisky and recognize that conviction about this position isn't worth much. If he had just taken the draft as it fell rather than swinging for the fences who knows what might have happened.

The Bears should recognize the fact that this incredibly well studied problem leads to the inescapable conclusion that drafting a QB is a god damned crap shoot. Use that fact to your advantage, look to acquire additional shots in the draft not trade them away. Plan on having to take multiple shots, focus on building a roster and staff that supports the development of these young players, etc.

[wab]

It's odd that everyone is upset over something happening that everyone reasonably expected to happen.

This team wasn't going anywhere next season anyway.

I can fully expect something to happen and still hate it when it does.

wab - do you think there is any chance Jones falls into the Bear range in the 2nd?

Fair point. I can get behind that.

As far as Jones goes... man, I don't know. Opinions seem to be all over the place. I think he could go between 12 and 20.

Short term, I think I prefer Jones to Trask. Jones sees the field well and knows exactly what is going on out there. He's also probably the most accurate QB in college football.

I think a team can win with him early. Long term I think Trask has more upside. Trask is big, has a nice arm, and is more athletic than he's given credit for. I just don't like the fact that he's never started at any level until this season. He's going to take some time.

Everyone says Jones has an average arm and is limited athletically, well...yeah when you compare him to guys like Mahomes, Murray, or Jackson. There have been some athletic freaks come into the NFL at the QB position over the last few years.

Jones doesn't have the arm of Mahomes, Murray, or Rodgers, but he seems like he can make any throw you need him to make. He's also got enough wiggle to get yards on the ground if you need him to.

[UOK]

To @wab 's and others points, there's simply NO way to fix things. This team needs to sleep in the bed it's made for at least two years, more likely three.

It's not quite as bad and fucked as the Trestman/Emery stuff, but in some ways it's worse because you now know that accountability doesn't exist and the Bears are run by an open-faced sandwich of sycophants, idiots, and nepotists.

This is where I'm at. It's going to take time to build this team into something that can actually compete for the division/make some noise in the playoffs. Where I get downtrodden is Pace and Nagy will feel urgency to show results.

I'm trying not to get too fired up about this because it will just lead to disappointment but what I don't want to see is any trading up by Pace to go after a QB, or anyone for that matter. He should take his lesson from Trubisky and recognize that conviction about this position isn't worth much. If he had just taken the draft as it fell rather than swinging for the fences who knows what might have happened.

The Bears should recognize the fact that this incredibly well studied problem leads to the inescapable conclusion that drafting a QB is a god damned crap shoot. Use that fact to your advantage, look to acquire additional shots in the draft not trade them away. Plan on having to take multiple shots, focus on building a roster and staff that supports the development of these young players, etc.

Well said. As a GM you need to at some point learn to work with what you have instead of surrendering capital or mortgaging the future to make up for your mistakes.

I would honestly extend Pace and Nagy through 2023 if they remained mostly immobile and uber-conservative this offseason. THAT would legitimately show that as a GM Pace is learning.

That said, this is a heritage organization that is one of the biggest draws in football and regularly featured in prime time games. They deserve better than to be run by these fools.

[wab]

I'm really starting to like Jamie Newman too. His Georgia tape is meh, but he was ridiculous at Wake Forest. He's got a beautiful deep ball and he's good on the move.

I kinda think he's "my guy" right now.

[Z Bear]

Newman needs to play really well at the Senior Bowl. Will be nice to see him and Trask go head to head, hope they end up on the same team. That will be real interesting practice sessions.

[Z Bear]

So what happens if Big Ben, Rivers, Brees, and Brady retire? It could very well happen, 2 are pretty much gone right now. That would create a QB Armageddon at the beginning of the year. Losing 1/8th of the starting QB in the league would be huge in one season, especially 4 as successful as that group. How badly would that drive up the QB market?

[IE]

I think Jones is my guy, then. My biggest priority at QB for the Bears is whether or not he's a "natural", and has that field and spatial awareness that leads to success when things aren't perfect. And I also believe that natural feel for the game and anticipation also translates into accuracy. Instead of expecting a guy develop into a thrower that can hit a target and potentially fruitless attempts to teach a young QB how to see the field, I want a guy who is just wired for it and has a natural feel for the game. I've personally have come to the conclusion this cannot be expected to be learned. Too painful and no certainty.

My understanding and from what I've read, Trey Lance is that kind of QB - a natural. I've only seen one game (looked OK) and some tape that was more impressive. Like Mahomes he also has a cannon, and that explains the intrigue. But since Lance is in no way a real option, I'll default to Jones who seems to be that same type of natural QB but maybe without as big of an arm. I think even with an average arm, the anticipation and aim will really help the long game. There have been quite a few great QBs with truly average arm strength (but they were accurate).

Looking back at '17 there was one guy who was a natural and ready - Watson. Both Mitch and Mahomes were projected to be great prospects but also development prospects. Mahomes proved to be a natural as well, and Reid only needed to figure out how best to utilize his exceptional physical talent and off the charts intuition/improvisation. That whole team is ready for things to break down & then they have some real fun. Nagy.... wasn't so lucky. He came in with little experience and few tools to develop a guy who needed someone like Reid or Shanahan or Greg Roman to develop them to the much lower ceiling that you're going to get with an "un-natural". It must have been a shock for Nagy to work with high football IQ QBs and then be asked to develop Mitch. To his credit, he remained positive the entire time.

[The Cooler King]

How much would Jacoby Brissett cost?

My guess is 8-10M per year. Basically high end backup QB money.

[southdakbearfan]

So is Jacksonville going to shop Minshew?

[The Cooler King]

I definitely want to see a QB drafted. They should get some vet to compete with Foles, how agressive really depends on the tone of the overall offseason.

While a 1st or 2nd round QB would have the most potential likely, theres some intriguing candidates for the later rounds. Sometimes you just need to prioritize getting guys in the door and play the game of odds. Even if a guy ends up just quality backup, it's a cheap role you filled for 4 years. And if you get lucky maybe he's a Cousins or Prescott or Romo.

Early outlook is that 2022 could offer up some strong QBs as well, but getting one in the door in 2021 just gives more options.

[UOK]

I'm really starting to like Jamie Newman too. His Georgia tape is meh, but he was ridiculous at Wake Forest. He's got a beautiful deep ball and he's good on the move.

I kinda think he's "my guy" right now.

Mond has become "my guy," but I really liked Newman's highlights. He looks like McNabb. Big, brutal dude who can sling it.

[Arkansasbear]

This all sounds like shit.

I can make it worse. But I actually feel this plan gives the best chance to get better.

You bring back Mitch. That sucks, I don't like it but if I have to ride or die with him or Foles, I still pick him.

You go into the draft with the hopes that Wilson slips to somewhere around 15. At that point you can go get him and it won't cost you all your draft capital. 20 to 15 "cost" about 200 points which would be a 2022 second round pick or a 2021 3rd round pick. Likely have to throw in a sweetner like a 2021 5th. But it can be done with giving up too much draft capital.

That said, that won't happen. Lance scares the crap out of me. One year starter (plus one game this year he looked bad in). Remind you of anyone??? And at a lower level of competition. Jones scares me as he had SO much talent around him. Trask I freaking love but no where have I seen him go anywhere near 20 so he is a huge over reach according to the "experts."

So I think you come out of this draft going heavy with OL, WR and a speed RB. You get a day 3 QB - I love Franks, but that's a homer pick, the better choice is Kellen Mond of A&M who I think is a great player. Once you draft the day 3 guy, I don't care what you do with Foles. You can pay him to stay and be the backup and a defacto coach or just eat the money. But we are carrying 3 QBs if you do keep him as I"m not risking losing a guy you try to hide on the PS.

So what does 2021 look like on the field. 60-40 it will be total crap. Same QB, same HC who will likely try to run the say broken system. Yeah we went 8-8 but the only solid wins we had were Houston and Jax plus maybe Carolina and the 2nd Minny game.

I expect the defense to be a bit better next year simply by addition by subtraction (bye-bye Chuck).. But unless Mitch does finally "get it" (please don't laugh at me I'm not saying he will but as Lloyd Christmas said "so your saying there's a chance) or Nagy learns how to call plays / get an OC who can and he stays out of it (again please see the Lloyd Christmas quote) I don't think that team does better than 6-10 and likely has a top 10 pick. At that point you draft your QB of the future but hopefully have a good OL, WRs and RB so he isn't jus thrown out there like so many high draft picks are with no talent around him.

This is what KC did with Malhomes. Don't get me wrong, I think the kid would be good wherever he went (he was the guy I was wanting at draft time), but he would do what he has done so far if he had been drafted by any team that picked before KC.

How's that for shit. We get to go into 2021 with basically no real hope of doing much (although I think that the case regardless of the route we do). But I think it sets us up better in 2022 and going forward.

[UOK]

This all sounds like shit.

I can make it worse. But I actually feel this plan gives the best chance to get better.

You bring back Mitch.

You lost me.

[wab]

This all sounds like shit.

I can make it worse. But I actually feel this plan gives the best chance to get better.

You bring back Mitch.

This is where I stopped.

The Season of the Mitch is over.

[G08]

Everyone says Jones has an average arm and is limited athletically, well...yeah when you compare him to guys like Mahomes, Murray, or Jackson. There have been some athletic freaks come into the NFL at the QB position over the last few years.

Jones doesn't have the arm of Mahomes, Murray, or Rodgers, but he seems like he can make any throw you need him to make. He's also got enough wiggle to get yards on the ground if you need him to.

Ehhhh I dunno man, I think his arm is a tick above Matt Barkley. You can live with it but it's average at best.

[wab]

Everyone says Jones has an average arm and is limited athletically, well...yeah when you compare him to guys like Mahomes, Murray, or Jackson. There have been some athletic freaks come into the NFL at the QB position over the last few years.

Jones doesn't have the arm of Mahomes, Murray, or Rodgers, but he seems like he can make any throw you need him to make. He's also got enough wiggle to get yards on the ground if you need him to.

Ehhhh I dunno man, I think his arm is a tick above Matt Barkley. You can live with it but it's average at best.

Granted he’s throwing to top 10 picks while also handing off to and being protected by first round prospects... but I’ve yet to see him lollipop a pass, short hop someone in the flat, or under throw a deep ball.

Considering his deep ball is one of his selling points, I’d say he can throw fine. Does he have a zippy fastball? No, but he’s got great accuracy and timing.

I wouldn’t be upset if the Bears picked him, but it wouldn’t excite me. I do think a team can win a lot of games with him, but he’s probably as good as he’s ever going to get right now.

[G08]

Ehhhh I dunno man, I think his arm is a tick above Matt Barkley. You can live with it but it's average at best.

Granted he’s throwing to top 10 picks while also handing off to and being protected by first round prospects... but I’ve yet to see him lollipop a pass, short hop someone in the flat, or under throw a deep ball.

Considering his deep ball is one of his selling points, I’d say he can throw fine. Does he have a zippy fastball? No, but he’s got great accuracy and timing.

I wouldn’t be upset if the Bears picked him, but it wouldn’t excite me. I do think a team can win a lot of games with him, but he’s probably as good as he’s ever going to get right now.

Let me ask the board a question... if you could spend the #20 pick on Kirk Cousins, would you?

[Z Bear]

At a rookie pay scale or what he is making now? Hell no for his current salary, hell yes if you are paying him rookie money.

[wab]

Granted he’s throwing to top 10 picks while also handing off to and being protected by first round prospects... but I’ve yet to see him lollipop a pass, short hop someone in the flat, or under throw a deep ball.

Considering his deep ball is one of his selling points, I’d say he can throw fine. Does he have a zippy fastball? No, but he’s got great accuracy and timing.

I wouldn’t be upset if the Bears picked him, but it wouldn’t excite me. I do think a team can win a lot of games with him, but he’s probably as good as he’s ever going to get right now.

Let me ask the board a question... if you could spend the #20 pick on Kirk Cousins, would you?

Eh...

Would it excite me? No. But yeah, if Kirk Cousins was in this draft, he'd be worth a pick somewhere between 10 and 20.

[wab]

Just to be clear, I don't care for Mac Jones and I'm really in no way advocating for the Bears to pick him. He's like a glass of milk. Good for what it is, but it's not going to make your day any better.

[G08]

Just to be clear, I don't care for Mac Jones and I'm really in no way advocating for the Bears to pick him. He's like a glass of milk. Good for what it is, but it's not going to make your day any better.

I'm there too. I'm trying to think through the mindset of what is best for Nagy and this offense. To me, it screams Mac Jones.

[Arkansasbear]

I can make it worse. But I actually feel this plan gives the best chance to get better.

You bring back Mitch.

This is where I stopped.

The Season of the Mitch is over.

I told you I could make it worse. It won't happen as Nagy/Pace need to win now. But basically it's they don't address the QB situation with a real solution until '22 when we will likely have a top 10 pick. But hopefully have more talent to surround him with so that he might be able to succeed. I just don't see how we can fix the QB spot next year.

I guess you can get to the same result by keeping Foles as your starter and using this year's draft picks to get offensive talent for the guy you take with your top 10 pick in '22.

I agree Trubiksy isn't the answer. But to pay respect to Alex Trebek, the question "Who is Nick Foles?" is the response to "the only QB the Bears could count on that would be worse than Trubiksy."

You nailed it when you said it all looks like shit. There is no way to get out of this hell hole. Especially when Pace/Nagy must win now. That means they will go "all in" with some terrible move that likely won't work, they will get canned, and when the new crew come in they likely will be missing 1st and 2nd round picks in multiple years.

I think keeping them both is going to set our first shot at truly be competitive about 5 years down the road.

I'm currently all doom and gloom for this team. We are going to be the expansion Tampa Bay Buc's bad.

[Moriarty]

I feel like people get "mediocre/middling" and "horrible" confused around here.

Well, it can be delineated more carefully, I guess

• The 2020 team, relative to the other 31 teams, was the epitome of MEDIOCRE
• Relative to what is expected from a team that invested 3 years in rebuilding and is squarely in the middle of their 3 year "All In/Win Now/Championship Contention" window, they've delivered HORRIBLY, with 1 winning season and 0 playoff wins.
• The offense, which Super Whiz Matt Nagy was supposed to fix, was HORRIBLE. Again.
• The team cap position is HORRIBLE. PFF does a 'cap health' (space and contracts relative to who you have locked in and what you don't), where the Bears were 28th. On a recent radio talk, I think they said an updated version had them lower.
  https://overthecap.com/2021-nfl-team-by ... ap-health/
• Their 2021 draft capital is SLIGHTLY BELOW AVERAGE
• The current front office situation and timing of having 2 guys with 1 year to salvage everything making your next QB decision is HORRIBLE
• The franchise's incredible tolerance for mediocre is a HORRIBLE way to run a team. It's a bad fan experience and it's a poor route to the excellence that they claim they want and think they want. But that's really not what motivates them.

[dplank]

I can fully expect something to happen and still hate it when it does.

wab - do you think there is any chance Jones falls into the Bear range in the 2nd?

Fair point. I can get behind that.

As far as Jones goes... man, I don't know. Opinions seem to be all over the place. I think he could go between 12 and 20.

Short term, I think I prefer Jones to Trask. Jones sees the field well and knows exactly what is going on out there. He's also probably the most accurate QB in college football.

I think a team can win with him early. Long term I think Trask has more upside. Trask is big, has a nice arm, and is more athletic than he's given credit for. I just don't like the fact that he's never started at any level until this season. He's going to take some time.

Everyone says Jones has an average arm and is limited athletically, well...yeah when you compare him to guys like Mahomes, Murray, or Jackson. There have been some athletic freaks come into the NFL at the QB position over the last few years.

Jones doesn't have the arm of Mahomes, Murray, or Rodgers, but he seems like he can make any throw you need him to make. He's also got enough wiggle to get yards on the ground if you need him to.

A little Baker Mayfield in him

[Bearfanuk]

There’s a qb issue in philly one that seems to suggest got a coach fired.

If lurie does view wentz as his QB 1 and does want one less of a headache I’m seeing dots that connect hurts to the bears with foles and a pick going the opposite way.

Wentz foles has a good relationship that ended in a bowl and it puts wentz back firmly as the starting QB no questions....no looking over your shoulder. You are our guy...or maybe I am wishing that into the universe IDK