Update: Carson Wentz traded to Colts

[thunderspirit]

I think the Bears actually won this one by losing out. But now everyone is going to bag on Pace for NOT getting Wentz.

True story.

He's damned if he does, he's damned if he doesn't.

[IE]

Wulfy's right it could be this year's 3rd and next year's 1st. Which was about what I thought the offer was going to be. But... that high one next year being conditional and no other players makes it look just like a super cheap flyer on a long shot & not a a guy who is for sure going to bounce back.

It's even worse when its the people who know him best that are bidding so low and putting conditions on it...

[Otis Day]

I think the Bears actually won this one by losing out. But now everyone is going to bag on Pace for NOT getting Wentz.

True story.

He's damned if he does, he's damned if he doesn't.

Most of the Bears fans I talk to regularly wanted no piece of Wentz, so they will be happy with Pace.

[DevilsProspect]

That seems like a fair deal.

Think that would have been the max I would have wanted to see if the Bears got him. Would have been fine with it, but not upset either.

[UOK]

Additionally some people are speculating that the main reason Wentz isn't a Bear is because he made a giant stink about it and would fight any trade to Chicago. Who knows if any of that is true.

The nice thing is that Pace finally didn't make a big trade that he was in the thick of. For a GM as aggressive as he usually is, even he knew that the time and asking price wasn't right.

[Moriarty]

Might be considerably cheaper than we expected - maybe even to the point that I'd have liked it.
But...

• We'll see about details. Does "conditional R2 in 2022" mean "a definite R2 that could become a R1"? Does it mean "maybe a R2, maybe a R1, maybe nothing"? And what are the conditions? I'm guessing it's the former. I might have tried the 20 and seen if they preferred that. But that's really stretching my comfort.
• Depending how strongly he preferred not to come here (assuming it's true, which I suspect fairly strongly that it is), I wouldn't want a guy with attitude issues in general, who's got a big problem coming in the door, when that's usually your honeymoon period.

All in all, (including some guesses about the above) I don't particularly mind, as long as Plan B/C/D isn't something idiotic.

[Moriarty]

The nice thing is that Pace finally didn't make a big trade that he was in the thick of. For a GM as aggressive as he usually is, even he knew that the time and asking price wasn't right.

Yes, it is nice to have some reassurance that he understands "whatever it takes to make it happen" isn't always the way to go.

[wab]

Might be considerably cheaper than we expected - maybe even to the point that I'd have liked it.
But...

• We'll see about details. Does "conditional R2 in 2022" mean "a definite R2 that could become a R1"? Does it mean "maybe a R2, maybe a R1, maybe nothing"? And what are the conditions? I'm guessing it's the former. I might have tried the 20 and seen if they preferred that. But that's really stretching my comfort.
• Depending how strongly he preferred not to come here (assuming it's true, which I suspect fairly strongly that it is), I wouldn't want a guy with attitude issues in general, who's got a big problem coming in the door, when that's usually your honeymoon period.

All in all, (including some guesses about the above) I don't particularly mind, as long as Plan B/C/D isn't something idiotic.

The Colts are definitely getting a R2 that can very easily become a R1.

[dplank]

So it’s a 3rd this year and a first next year (most likely, injury protected). I’d have done that deal. But not if he said he didn’t want to be here. So, fuck him and fuck the Colts. I hope he plays 76% of the snaps, sucks, then hurts his shoulder.

Missed opportunity IMO. Assuming Watson, Dak, and Carr are unattainable then we are facing a terrible 2021 season. If I want to be positive, then maybe this gets Pace focused on a Carr or Watson deal.

[Hoog]

Wow, glad this day time drama is over. Time to move on!

[Moriarty]

Might be considerably cheaper than we expected - maybe even to the point that I'd have liked it.
But...

• We'll see about details. Does "conditional R2 in 2022" mean "a definite R2 that could become a R1"? Does it mean "maybe a R2, maybe a R1, maybe nothing"? And what are the conditions? I'm guessing it's the former. I might have tried the 20 and seen if they preferred that. But that's really stretching my comfort.
• Depending how strongly he preferred not to come here (assuming it's true, which I suspect fairly strongly that it is), I wouldn't want a guy with attitude issues in general, who's got a big problem coming in the door, when that's usually your honeymoon period.

All in all, (including some guesses about the above) I don't particularly mind, as long as Plan B/C/D isn't something idiotic.

The Colts are definitely getting a R2 that can very easily become a R1.

Interesting.
Pretty fair offer, when you include the condition.

[DevilsProspect]

The nice thing is that Pace finally didn't make a big trade that he was in the thick of. For a GM as aggressive as he usually is, even he knew that the time and asking price wasn't right.

Yes, it is nice to have some reassurance that he understands "whatever it takes to make it happen" isn't always the way to go.

Or maybe it came from the top...

[edep12]

-We give Vegas 2 firsts
-We get Carr
-Vegas gives our 2 firsts and 2 of their own for Watson

Everyone’s happy!

[Moriarty]

Yes, it is nice to have some reassurance that he understands "whatever it takes to make it happen" isn't always the way to go.

Or maybe it came from the top...

Theoretically true.

I feel like I read something recently, where George was saying "you can't retain him to do his job, then handcuff him", though.

[IE]

Seems like with the probable '22 first rounder it is the deal the Bears had, but without Foles, Cohen or whatever. I was guessing Pace backed out based on Wentz simply not wanting to join the Bears, and so the Eggles defaulted to the only other player.

I've resisted the primadonna narrative on Wentz. The risk of it being real is a concern of course. But also of a concern is the context of what he potentially heard from or through mutual friends ... maybe from Foles, or through Jordan Howard or someone. Players talk and even across teams now more than ever. I suspect that Wentz's strong feelings about the Bears are centered on Nagy and some potential real actual inside perspective. Should Wentz get a pass for protecting his big chance to rehab his image and avoiding a disaster of a coach? A bad coach where if you lose you lose and if you win you still lose (because the bad coach stays)?

We're all saying bullet dodged. But maybe it is Wentz that dodged the bullet.

[Moriarty]

I've resisted the primadonna narrative on Wentz. The risk of it being real is a concern of course. But also of a concern is the context of what he potentially heard from or through mutual friends ... maybe from Foles, or through Jordan Howard or someone. Players talk and even across teams now more than ever. I suspect that Wentz's strong feelings about the Bears are centered on Nagy and some potential real actual inside perspective. Should Wentz get a pass for protecting his big chance to rehab his image and avoiding a disaster of a coach? A bad coach where if you lose you lose and if you win you still lose (because the bad coach stays)?

We're all saying bullet dodged. But maybe it is Wentz that dodged the bullet.

Oh, absolutely, I don't think Wentz should get a black mark for not wanting to come to a team in the shape the Bears are in, with the offensive history (recent and long-term) that they have.

I do still give high credence to the reports out of Philly that say he was a dick there, though,

[Burl]

Thank God.
And IE, to your point, both can be true.

[Burl]

Question is now, can we send Foles back to Philly to mentor Hurts?

[dplank]

I'm not saying bullet dodged. I'm saying fuck Carson Wentz right up the arsehole. I hate him and will forever root for him to lose every single game he plays until he retires in utter humiliation.

I can't hate the Colts anymore than I already do, having grown up in the Baltimore area when they moved.

[Hema2.0]

Thank God. It's time to stop mortgaging our teams future, that which never comes, and build this thing the right way. Build the Oline and draft a QB. Run with Foles this year and let the rookie sit. If we suck, draft another QB early next year and let the 2 battle. Fuck Pace and Nagy, they put us in this position. Win with the team you built, or be gone.

[wulfy]

Seems like with the probable '22 first rounder it is the deal the Bears had, but without Foles, Cohen or whatever. I was guessing Pace backed out based on Wentz simply not wanting to join the Bears, and so the Eggles defaulted to the only other player.

I've resisted the primadonna narrative on Wentz. The risk of it being real is a concern of course. But also of a concern is the context of what he potentially heard from or through mutual friends ... maybe from Foles, or through Jordan Howard or someone. Players talk and even across teams now more than ever. I suspect that Wentz's strong feelings about the Bears are centered on Nagy and some potential real actual inside perspective. Should Wentz get a pass for protecting his big chance to rehab his image and avoiding a disaster of a coach? A bad coach where if you lose you lose and if you win you still lose (because the bad coach stays)?

We're all saying bullet dodged. But maybe it is Wentz that dodged the bullet.

Well thought out and articulated post. The fit on both sides seemed questionable after letting some time pass.

Still saying it's Jimmy G

[DevilsProspect]

Ultimately it’s a good trade for the Colts and Eagles IMO.

Up next,

Unless Bears can unload Foles to the Eagles, I say just stand pat and roll with the punches. Draft someone like Newman in the 3rd.

If they can dump Foles, I would be cool with Carr or Minshew if the cost is right.

At the end of the day, I’m pretty comfortable with no big moves. Just build for future.

[Grizzled]

The Bears are the team on which QBs go to die. Who would want to come here? As for Wentz, the Bears didn’t need to take on a reclamation project, especially with a guy with an attitude of sabotaging his own team.

[IE]

I understand why you feel that way, Plank. But I just can't see blaming a guy for not wanting to be screwed. Nagy is BAD. This is a bit of a canary in the coalmine here on the Bears' prospects in QB FA. Who the EFF would want to play for Nagy and risk either sucking with him or being stuck with him in spite of him?

I think the between the lines story this tells is the Bears are likely going to have to roll with Foles and a draft pick. Which isn't a horrible option in the big picture.

I do agree that it isn't mutually exclusive - Wentz could get a pass for not wanting to screw himself further but still actually be a dick.

But then what does that say about the Bears if such damaged goods is saying "no way I'm going there"?

[DevilsProspect]

Or maybe it came from the top...

Theoretically true.

I feel like I read something recently, where George was saying "you can't retain him to do his job, then handcuff him", though.

It would make sense. I mean if he is on the hot seat, don’t let him put you back a couple more years. If he can’t fix the bed he made he is done...

[DevilsProspect]

Seems like with the probable '22 first rounder it is the deal the Bears had, but without Foles, Cohen or whatever. I was guessing Pace backed out based on Wentz simply not wanting to join the Bears, and so the Eggles defaulted to the only other player.

I've resisted the primadonna narrative on Wentz. The risk of it being real is a concern of course. But also of a concern is the context of what he potentially heard from or through mutual friends ... maybe from Foles, or through Jordan Howard or someone. Players talk and even across teams now more than ever. I suspect that Wentz's strong feelings about the Bears are centered on Nagy and some potential real actual inside perspective. Should Wentz get a pass for protecting his big chance to rehab his image and avoiding a disaster of a coach? A bad coach where if you lose you lose and if you win you still lose (because the bad coach stays)?

We're all saying bullet dodged. But maybe it is Wentz that dodged the bullet.

Definitely could have some weight to that. I mean Foles even publicly called the play calling out. Could see that happening. Or if the two of them are friends, he could have told Wentz to not f*ck up his starter spot.

[wab]

I mean, it's really not complicated. I think it's as simple as:
1 - The Bears didn't think it was worth giving up a bunch of pics for Wentz
2 - Wentz wanted to play in a dome for a guy that was his coach in essentially a MVP season

There's no need to create a smoking gun. It's weird.

[dplank]

I understand why you feel that way, Plank. But I just can't see blaming a guy for not wanting to be screwed. Nagy is BAD. This is a bit of a canary in the coalmine here on the Bears' prospects in QB FA. Who the EFF would want to play for Nagy and risk either sucking with him or being stuck with him in spite of him?

I think the between the lines story this tells is the Bears are likely going to have to roll with Foles and a draft pick. Which isn't a horrible option in the big picture.

I do agree that it isn't mutually exclusive - Wentz could get a pass for not wanting to screw himself further but still actually be a dick.

But then what does that say about the Bears if such damaged goods is saying "no way I'm going there"?

Wentz is a cunt. Disliked in Philly, failed starter who whined his way out of town then bitched about where he'd go next. It's not like Watson, where the GM is actively tearing down the team around him - that I'd understand. But not this, Fuck him. I'm glad he's not here but I hate him still the same.

Chicago is NOT A BAD DESTINATION - that is false. We were a playoff team last year! Not only that, we were a playoff team whose biggest positional liability was QB. Nagy is a 3 year head coach who's made the playoffs twice in three years despite having Forrest Gump playing QB for him. We STILL don't know what this looks like with a good QB man, let alone improved line play which is starting to take shape. This is the exact scenario where a confident, skilled QB looks at it and says, damn, I can take that 9-7 team to 11-5 or 12-4. Wentz instead looks for a cushy situation to bleed another team dry - enjoy it Indy.

[Yogi da Bear]

The Bears are the team on which QBs go to die. Who would want to come here? As for Wentz, the Bears didn’t need to take on a reclamation project, especially with a guy with an attitude of sabotaging his own team.

Chicago isn't a place where QBs go to die. It's a place they go to be aborted. And in Cutler's case, it was a post term abortion. lol

[wulfy]

I think this notion that Pace is on the hot seat is false. He's got a minimum of a two year window to improve the team, as does Nagy. There is a ton of speculation that Phillips extended his contract to match Nagy's .... meaning they have two more years together if the Bears are willing to put them on the spot for a lame duck year - which seems like a very Bear-like thing to do.