Mitch to the Steelers

[mmmc_35]

I pretty much disagree. QBs are such a priority and Mitch is an easy gamble to bet on, based off the surface info. No risk high reward. Gms didnt. Based off dollars and team it doesn't look like the NFL thought much of the kid.

I really thought a team like Carolina, Washington, New England etc would have taken a stab at him.

[The Marshall Plan]

In an offseason where GMs are entering the octagon against one another to trade for QBs and to trade up in the draft presumably for one, it's extraordinarily damning that Mitch not only could not find another team to be the starter (despite even having playoff experience) and had to settle for a backup job at $2.5M.

When the market places an overall premium on the QB position and a QB signs for that amount that tells you all you need to know.

Heck, Andy Dalton got 4X the amount of money that Mitch did from Mitch's old GM.

[WP.1]

[Otis Day]

That was awful. I counted 4 Colts and 2 Bills in that picture. Odds not good. Typical #10.

[G08]

I'll place a wager with anyone that Trubisky's next contract will be greater than $2.5 million.

[dplank]

I think most people started agreeing with this POV as the reality of Nagys suckage came into full view. Congrats again on the correct take tho.

[IE]

What I never understood was if the thought was that Mitch was a legit NFL starter ... why wasn't there a torch and pitchfork movement against Nagy once Mitch really showed he couldn't do anything in Nagy's offense (and Nagy wouldn't do anything to fix that)? Instead, we got the "it takes ten thousand years to learn this offense" excuse - which just delayed accepting the reality of what our eyes were telling us... and was an excuse for Nagy as much as Mitch. If Mitch was really viewed as a QB would lead a good offense and beat good teams... Nagy should have been roasted more heavily and earlier. IMO anyway.

I still see Mitch as a Harbaugh type career, where he does learn to calm down and play within himself and play a lot better. I could see him starting for some teams as a placeholder on a rebuilding team. He might then surprise to the upside and have himself some nice years. I don't see him playing for a team that wants & expects to beat good teams consistently and contend when they sign him. But he could surprise on an overall decent team like Harbaugh did. I do think he has a high floor. But he also has a low ceiling. Again, IMO.

[dplank]

Those two thoughts should absolutely go hand and hand IE. If you thought Mitch was getting screwed here in Chicago but DIDN'T support firing Nagy last off season, then you have a serious logical flaw in your thought process. It's still possible that they BOTH sucked BTW, the only outcome that's no longer in doubt is if they were both good - that's over because McNagy. Mitch still has a shot to resuscitate his career, but we don't know how he'll actually play if/when someone gives him that shot.

Also last time I pulled this move (posted a take about the shift to 4/3 defense and how the personnel will change after a lengthy debate about the subject where it looked like I was ultimately correct), I got mod slapped for it and was told I live in a strange black/white world lol. Doesn't bother me to just admit G08 got it right tho!

[G08]

I think most people started agreeing with this POV as the reality of Nagys suckage came into full view. Congrats again on the correct take tho.

I appreciate that but I should clarify that my post was more about being proud of the kid. I sincerely hope he finds great success against 31 NFL teams for the duration of his career.

The way Buffalo -- and especially Josh Allen -- raves about him made me smile.

[G08]

What I never understood was if the thought was that Mitch was a legit NFL starter ... why wasn't there a torch and pitchfork movement against Nagy once Mitch really showed he couldn't do anything in Nagy's offense (and Nagy wouldn't do anything to fix that)? Instead, we got the "it takes ten thousand years to learn this offense" excuse - which just delayed accepting the reality of what our eyes were telling us... and was an excuse for Nagy as much as Mitch. If Mitch was really viewed as a QB would lead a good offense and beat good teams... Nagy should have been roasted more heavily and earlier. IMO anyway.

I still see Mitch as a Harbaugh type career, where he does learn to calm down and play within himself and play a lot better. I could see him starting for some teams as a placeholder on a rebuilding team. He might then surprise to the upside and have himself some nice years. I don't see him playing for a team that wants & expects to beat good teams consistently and contend when they sign him. But he could surprise on an overall decent team like Harbaugh did. I do think he has a high floor. But he also has a low ceiling. Again, IMO.

Depends who you ask.

NFL coaches will tell you it DOES take years to master this offense. Look at Alex Smith as a pristine example of an NFL veteran not taking off in this scheme until year 5. Patrick Mahomes is an absolute freak/anomaly and one could argue he made most of his big plays off script. He also had the luxury of playing with elite NFL talent who were in this system for 5 years (Kelce) and 2 years (Hill) before Mahomes came along.

I also vividly recall Tyreek Hill saying his first impression of Patrick Mahomes was that "he was trash", but I digress.

Message board nerds like myself will tell you he would thrive in Kyle Shanahan's offense.


My biggest takeaway from the Trubisky-era is that NFL coaches (all? some?) are liars when they say they will tailor an offense to the QB's strength. Nagy said that ad nauseum and we found out what a lying cunt he was. If you want to find success in the NFL, you HAVE to build your offense around what your QB does well. Period.

[IE]

We agree on Nagy, and we're probably only 25% apart off on Mitch. I don't think he's trash I just don't think he is a cerebral QB like some are (guys that master offenses).

Interesting thing on Buffalo is they seemed to be a better team when they were more balanced and not pass-wacky (Dabol seems to have that tendency). Their balanced O was a pretty good spot for a Mitch.

[malk]

I always found it insane that Trubisky only took the deal he did. Humble to a fault, a perfect clipboard holder who had starting, and winning, experience with loads of upside. Obviously him being picky about his spot and wanting something short term with a chance of bouncing back to start played a part, but not even bagging Chase Daniel money, yeesh.

I hope it pays off for him and he get a proper chance in a decent scheme.

[G08]

I always found it insane that Trubisky only took the deal he did. Humble to a fault, a perfect clipboard holder who had starting, and winning, experience with loads of upside. Obviously him being picky about his spot and wanting something short term with a chance of bouncing back to start played a part, but not even bagging Chase Daniel money, yeesh.

I hope it pays off for him and he get a proper chance in a decent scheme.

From what I understand, they sold him on the upside of using the year to "reboot" himself. There were some stories of him doing an oustanding job of mimicking the opponent's QB to a tee, something that many scout team QBs don't bother doing. Maybe he learned a few things as well, who knows.

Pretty cool in a sense, I hope it pays off well for him. I'll likely follow his career, albeit with less focus than if he was a Chicago Bear.

[wab]

Depending on what you believe...according to Twitter...Mitch would be far and away the best QB prospect if he were in this draft, and would conceivably go in the top 5.

[IotaNet]

Depending on what you believe...according to Twitter...Mitch would be far and away the best QB prospect if he were in this draft, and would conceivably go in the top 5.

I would take 2022 Mitch over any of these QB's in this draft. 2017 Mitch .... I don't know about that.

One of my biggest knocks against Trubisky was that he had played so little. What was it -- 13 starts? While I'm not saying Kenny Pickett is the next Peyton Manning, the kid has had 49 starts. He's simply played more football than Mitch had.

[Mikefive]

A couple things I learned during Trubisky’s Chicago time…
1. He tended to lock onto his first option too long and almost never got to read 3.
2. He was a quality individual who put in the work and was tough.

He’s going to have to fix item 1 to become a quality QB. Not sure if he can, but item 2 gives him a chance. Now that we know more about Nagy, I’m rooting for him.

[Moriarty]

Depending on what you believe...according to Twitter...Mitch would be far and away the best QB prospect if he were in this draft, and would conceivably go in the top 5.

Not sure. Could be.

But at the same time, as weak as this draft is in top QBs, I'm not sure that means anything, either.

[dplank]

Hard to get to read 3 when you are starting Rashad Coward and Pig Simmons tho. If read 1 wasn't open, he was typically running for his life.

[Moriarty]

Hard to get to read 3 when you are starting Rashad Coward and Pig Simmons tho. If read 1 wasn't open, he was typically running for his life.

Foles was primarily the one who got stuck with the historically wretched lines.
Mitch mostly had average to low average protection during his 4 years, IIRC.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Trubisky doesn't feature in Gregg Rosenthal's 'Top 101 NFL free agents of 2022' (https://www.nfl.com/news/top-101-nfl-fr ... -available).

The QBs he does list are:

Rank 23 - Jameis Winston
Rank 34 - Teddy Bridgewater
Rank 96 - Marcos Mariotta
Rank 101 - Andy Dalton

Trubisky is younger and, in my opinion, has more potential upside than any of those guys. If I was a GM I'd rather take a punt on him and see what he can do than sign any of those four.

[IE]

The current QB crop are underwhelming enough that if I was at the top of the draft I'd strongly consider trading down and reaping a reward of several high picks for OL and other core positions. Then sign Mitch for a couple of years to build around and plan on drafting another young QB next year or the year after to eventually take over. If he succeeds in keeping other young prospects on the sidelines for a while, good for him.

[Mikefive]

Hard to get to read 3 when you are starting Rashad Coward and Pig Simmons tho. If read 1 wasn't open, he was typically running for his life.

That certainly did happen. But when I reviewed all the plays, there were plenty of times when he did have time and just didn't progress with his reads as he should have. That said, we don't know what his coaches directed him to do. So with different (better) coaching and a more mature mind, the outcome may change. I'm hoping for him.

[malk]

Trubisky doesn't feature in Gregg Rosenthal's 'Top 101 NFL free agents of 2022' (https://www.nfl.com/news/top-101-nfl-fr ... -available).

The QBs he does list are:

Rank 23 - Jameis Winston
Rank 34 - Teddy Bridgewater
Rank 96 - Marcos Mariotta
Rank 101 - Andy Dalton

Trubisky is younger and, in my opinion, has more potential upside than any of those guys. If I was a GM I'd rather take a punt on him and see what he can do than sign any of those four.

Take Dalton off the list due to age (well, and performance as well) and I think the others all have some upside for teams.

Mariota crashed to earth after a couple of promising years but showed you can win with him. I don't see much upside as he hasn't shown decent TD% since those two years but perhaps in a good scheme with an existing good roster...
Bridgewater is the same. Hasn't ever lit things up in terms of TD% but is coming off a year with 4.2:1.6 TD:Int % in a not great situation in Denver. Still a fringe starter.
Winston I'd previously discounted as his interception % with Tampa, 3.5% is killer, you can't win with that. But then seven games with NO this year at 8.7:1.9 will have raised some eyebrows.

Trubisky is a slightly different proposition in that the upside is coming from the expectation that Nagy really held him back which we know is likely but it's still an uncertainty in that he could be poor in a good scheme. Plus there wasn't enough play this last year in Buffalo to update ones judgement. But we do know he's a hard worker and that the game won't be too fast for him in that rookie sense. He's got a couple of years where he got his TD% well over 5 and showed in 2019 that he can rain in the interceptions somewhat if told to be conservative, which shows decent coachability if nothing else.

So out of the 4 in potential you've got that outlier half season from Winston that might be worth rolling the dice on, but I wouldn't myself or at least not for much cap. Trubisky is next from a blank slate perspective and I'd be willing to give him a multi year deal if I was in the market for a QB, especially if I didn't have a high draft pick.

But even Bridgewater and Mariota could, imo, be NFL starters but only if the team was pretty set otherwise. We might start to see a bit of a trend that apes the Rams situation a little, where the team is set and the QB is brought in. Obviously Stafford is a better player than the ones listed, at least on paper, but it wasn't an amazing one statistically and I think one that could have been replicated by quite a few players in that scheme. Plus he's going to get a ridiculous extension now and it'll completely kill the Rams chances going forward.

So a really smart team that has most of the pieces but QB might look at one of these retreads with genuine upside and look to hand them to keys without killing their cap...

[thunderspirit]

Most of the shine on Trubisky has to be due to the flameout of Nagy. It's not as though there aren't four years of tape on him.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Bridgewater is the same. Hasn't ever lit things up in terms of TD% but is coming off a year with 4.2:1.6 TD:Int % in a not great situation in Denver.

Not great situation in Denver? Have you seen the roster he had to work with?

RB: Gordon and Williams (both had over 900 yards rushing at 4.5ypc, plus they contributed 71 receptions for over 500 yards and scored 17 TDs)
WR: Jeudy, Sutton and Patrick (not many WR groups better than this trio)
TE: Fant (logged 562 yards as a rookie and has over 60 receptions and 670 yards in each of the last two seasons)
LT: Boles (2020 2nd Team All Pro)

Denver is basically a QB away from being a contender despite playing in a tough division. Bridgewater was his usual average self. He is what he is at this point and it isn't good enough to elevate a talented team let alone a less talented one.

Trubisky is a slightly different proposition in that the upside is coming from the expectation that Nagy really held him back which we know is likely but it's still an uncertainty in that he could be poor in a good scheme. Plus there wasn't enough play this last year in Buffalo to update ones judgement. But we do know he's a hard worker and that the game won't be too fast for him in that rookie sense. He's got a couple of years where he got his TD% well over 5 and showed in 2019 that he can rain in the interceptions somewhat if told to be conservative, which shows decent coachability if nothing else.

Based on what Trubisky had to say recently about his time in Buffalo I rather doubt he's going to be conservative going forward.

"Going to Buffalo really opened my eyes," said Trubisky, via ESPN. "After being in Chicago for four years, there was only one way I knew how to do things. [Being] in Buffalo and [having] a different way of doing things, you learn what's possible. It helped me get back to instinctual football and using my talents rather than overthinking."

There's no doubt Trubisky was able to better himself in watching the athletic Allen train and play. Trubisky said that he learned that he can't be afraid to make mistakes and needs to play free. That mindset alone could be something that helps him when he gets his next chance.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/why- ... d-my-eyes/

Josh Allen had this to say:

"The dude is an athlete. I don't think people really understand that. You give him leeway in an offense to have that mindset of, 'See it, do it, we trust you.' He's going to kill it."

Another nugget from that article: Trubisky actually owns the fourth-highest win percentage of any active quarterback since 2018 at 25-13.

I honestly think that having it drummed into him that throwing interceptions was an absolute cardinal sin from the moment he arrived in Chicago, first by Fox and then by Nagy, stifled Trubisky and made him afraid to make mistakes. It looks like his time in Buffalo will have changed his mindset. It doesn't mean he'll be successful, but I would expect to see a QB who is willing to take more chances and better equipped to shrug off mistakes and bad plays when he makes them.

[dave99]

There are quarterbacks that can carry a team, there are quarterbacks that are good enough to win with if the team can carry them and there are quarterbacks that are giant anchors and can overcome any amount of coaching and surrounding talent.
I doubt that Trubisky will ever be in the first category but it is possible that he may fit into the second.
Nagy is like a black cloud that passes over a players career making it impossible to see him clearly until the sun comes back out again.
I wish Trubisky the best of luck on any Sunday when we are not on the other side of the field.

[malk]

@HisRoyalSweetness

Fair points on Denver. I don't think I rate the receivers as highly as you, at least in 2021. Sutton coming off an injury then Patrick, Jeudy and Fant are promsing but haven't broken out yet, admittedly without having had good QBs. Their running game is definitely a strength though, certainly a mistake on my part. And you're right overall, Bridgewater just hasn't shown enough to be part of a deep playoff team, fringe starter is his limit.

Also agree that Trubisky won't/shouldn't be conservative going forward, I just meant it as a good trait in that he can take instruction and modify his game. That's not a given for all QBs. I'd absolutely aggressively target Trubisky if I was in the market for a QB. It seems pretty clear the scheme wasn't well tailored for him, and bad in general. So having those two seasons at 5.5% TD percentage despite the scheme, the offensive lines and decent but not stellar receivers. Huge upside without massive risk.

[dplank]

I bet he still sucks

[thunderspirit]

I bet he still sucks

At the risk of seeming like a douche for a self-quote:

It's not as though there aren't four years of tape on him.

[bbaker]

I am rooting for him, but I don't think he will end up being very successful. Nagy mind-fucked him to death, and he has probably been permanently damaged.

If Trubisky would have gone to a different situation (like the Chiefs?) I think his story would be pretty different. He had huge upside, but little playing experience and needed a lot of development. It would actually have been better for him if he didn't get ANY coaching. Instead, was relentlessly OVER-coached and developed BADLY.