Outrage Thread: March Edition

[The Marshall Plan]

This might be my favorite thread ever.

What happens when March is over?

Do we get a new thread or will you guys just change the name of this one?

And we haven't really gotten into Jay Cutler yet either.

[dave99]

I mean, what else do old timer bears fans have to hold on and treasure other than incoherent and infantile rage?

It's exasperation over a multitude of substandard QBs stretching back to the '60s and continuing on to present day. You satisfied with the QB process that resulted in Andy Dalton starting in 2021?

Exactly. This is the same old movie that has played almost uninterrupted for the past 70 years.
If you have any sense of history, despair is the only the rational response for what is unfolding yet again.

As for Pace and company, well the fact that he may have had excellent reasons for each disastrous step does not obviate the fact the end result has been failure.
Arguing that Dalton is the best option for 2021 is akin to arguing that bankruptcy is the best option after losing all your money in Vegas.

[dplank]

TMP we definitely see this the same way. It seems to be confusing some folks who are in the weeds about one move or another, but someone in Twitter articulated it much clearer so thought I’d post it here, paraphrased:

The Bears needed to decide before the start of FA if they were going to make another run at it or start a rebuild (short track or full scale). Set your strategy and execute it as best you can. The problem with the Andy Dalton signing is that he doesn’t help you in either direction. So either Ryan Pace doesn’t know his own strategy, which is how it appears at this moment, or there is still a big move coming that will reveal the master plan. Let’s hope it’s the latter.

If you are rebuilding, then letting Hicks and Fuller go makes sense, and signing a premium OT would be wasteful. But there’s no reason at all to sign Dalton if you are rebuilding when you already have Foles. And why would you let Fuller go, who has many years of good football left in him, instead of Jimmy Graham? Rebuilding means that you aren’t competing for a championship this year and your focus is on future roster and player development. Add picks, play younger talent, etc.

If you are taking another run at it, then wouldn’t you be better served adding a premium OT or WR, and keeping one of Hicks/Fuller? Is Andy Dalton the guy who will carry Chicago to a championship with a now degraded defense, poor OL, and lack of high power weapons? Clearly not.

And so that leaves me wondering (wishfully) if Pace, who has a history of bold moves, still has something up his sleeve that will give clarity to all this.

[The Marshall Plan]

@dplank

We do for sure. IIRC we were told at the end of the season that there was some kind of a plan and for the most part I believe that.

I believe that Pace genuinely inquired about Watson, Wilson, Wentz and Carr. For better or for worse, Pace isn't afraid to make big moves either in the draft or in trades.

Pace ran into brick wall after brick wall. Houston and Seattle were never going to deal those guys. Would we? Hell no. If somebody on the team or in the organization is pissing off the future HOF franchise QB, there's a great chance the other guy gets fired and the QB stays put. Maybe the Raiders deal Carr, but what's the answer for the Raiders after that?

Detroit and LA were smart in that they dealt their QBs, but they got another good one in return.

The problem with Pace is that he panics. We've seen that in the draft with Floyd and Mitch.

It happened again this past week with Dalton. He panicked when Seattle gave "no" for the final answer. Instead of immediately thinking OK I've still got the draft he freaked out and fucked up.

Pace needed to maintain composure and re-analyze his draft board. A QB can be had at 20 or trade up. Even if it's Mac Jones (whom I dread), I would still agree that Mac Jones would be better for the team than Andy Dalton because we know that Andy Dalton would suck and be expensive whereas I could be totally wrong about Mac Jones and he could be great.

In that scenario, Foles is the starter. Jones reads the Surface tablet. Then we build the OL with the 2nd rounder and the $10M we saved by not signing Dalton.

Another thing I'll say is that if we had $10M to spend plus we cut Fuller and we spent that on the OL to get 2 studs I would be totally over the moon. Heck if it meant getting TWO studs on that OL I'd trade Hicks too. I want that damn OL to be elite. You control the entire game if you can block up front.

A rookie QB (let's be honest Jones would probably be starting around week 4) with an above average OL, an up and coming TE with Kmet and two really good WRs (one elite) with ARob and Mooney and a good RB with Monty is a recipe for success. I feel that Jones could be really successful with that.

But no. Pace panicked and now it doesn't look like we'll draft a QB either.

[Grizzled]

Again, I ask what's your alternative -- last year, the Bears' first choice was Brady. Rumor has it his final choice was down to the Buccs vs the Bears, and he chose the warm weather team.

This year -- Wilson was clearly the first choice, and despite a massive offer, Seattle wouldn't deal him. And frankly, if they did, half the same people here bitching about Dalton would instead be bitching about how the Bears gave up too much to get Wilson.
Watson -- again, his team doesn't want to trade him, only in his case, half the league has expressed interest in trading for him, so his price point is probably even higher. And that's before we take into account the growing number of lawsuits alleging sexual assault.
Carr -- the Raiders took him off the table when they decided they weren't going to trade him.
Dak -- the Cowboys signed him to a deal before he could hit the market, so he's not an option either.
Darnold -- would cost the bears more in terms of draft capital, for a less-reliable option, and the Bears would probably have to commit to a multi-year extension as part of the deal. Unless you believe Darnold is waiting to break out right now, vs a reclamation project, I don't see that as an improvement vs Dalton
Foles -- Again, can't be relied on to start a complete season. He's a high end backup who can get streaky. Last year was his chance to win the starting job outright and he couldn't do it.

So, who would you prefer, given the current circumstances, in 2021. We don't get to wind back time to 2017, we have to work with the current constraints and opportunities this year. Fitzpatrick has less upside than Dalton and signed for the same money. Brissett signed for $5mil, and I would rather go into the season with Foles as my starter.

So who else, that is available in 2021, would you have preferred they sign over Dalton? Alex Smith? Tyrod Taylor? AJ McCarron? Joe Flacco?
I'm all ears at which of the available QBs you would have both preferred over Dalton and believe would be an upgrade over Foles, which the Bears already ruled out going into this season as their starter when they said "we need better play at the QB position"

If you read the actual posts instead of being so defensive and lashing out, you'd already know the answer - it's been said repeatedly.

We would have preferred NO ONE and roll with Foles, Bray and a drafted QB. Clear?

This, although I'd hope the Bears would kick the tires on Minshew.

[Rusty Trombagent]

Nice triple post, triggered? lol

triggered?

please dont be that guy, it's really embarrassing.

[EricTighe]

Outraged is an understatement.

1. Pace can't draft his way out of a box with one side. He has hit on a few but his constant ability to draft athletes over football players continues to astound me. At some point, you have to be man enough to know what you're good at and what you aren't.
2. It has come to this. Nagy can not coach up a QB. Love or hate Trubisky he did nothing to improve the kid. So everyone thinking we should trade for a QB that he can build up is wishing upon a star. His track record is proven. Drafting a QB in any round and keeping Nagy seems like a waste of a pick at this point. He wanted Foles and got him. Yipee. He wanted Dalton and got him. Dalton is better than Foles I will give him that. But is Dalton really any better than Trubisky? Maybe just maybe after another complete failure on offense, this year people will quit calling Nagy an offensive genius.
3. Nagy and Pace have kept their jobs because they have not had a losing record. Due to our DEFENSE. Now we are going gut the hell out of it. Wow, someone explains the logic in this? So if we get a stud Tackle in the draft this will make Nagy's offense work? Don't think so. His philosophy is screwed not the execution nor the players. This is not to say that we can't get better in the talent area on that side of the ball.
4. Pace has put us in the situation. Nagy has compounded it by his refusal to attempt to make changes to his offensive scheme that does not work with the players he has. He won his first year with Fox's players. 3 years together and they have completely rebuilt the roster. Now we are going to do it again because we are in salary cap hell, without a franchise QB. This all falls on Pace and his theory of robbing Peter to pay Paul. Jesus, how many times are we going to have to restructure deals with Mack to free up money?

I have no faith in Pace or Nagy. I believe we have won in spite of them. No matter what you say they have won together. Mediocrity should not be the basis of which an NFL front office thrives to be.

46 years as a Bears fan and this may be the most depressed I have ever been about my Bears. We have a championship Defense that was held back by our D-coordinator the last couple of seasons. Now we are ridding ourselves of the one thing we were good at. At least we had a chance with a great Defense and a piss poor offense. How will we do with an average defense and the same offensive philosophy?

I am seeing a lot of alcohol in my future for Sundays. Not in a good way either.

Sorry for the rant but I kept hoping it would get better. But it seems we are heading for a rebuild AGAIN.

[otis]

Pace is likely to get another shot at drafting and building around a young QB, wherever that might be. And if ownership didn't believe in him, the time to fire was this last offseason, not after he apparently was given the reigns to trade 3+ first rounders to Seattle if he felt so inclined. We're in this for the long haul.

i totally hadn't thought of that. he made that offer, for a 32 year old, smallish mr wonderful. and he offered any two players from the roster! the only thing that has kept me from going full comeapart was the vision of ownership telling pace he can't trade up for or trade away a bunch of picks to save his ass. and then he offers seattle. holy shit. he can do whatever he wants and sacrifice the future for whatever he wants. we're screwed.

[karhu]

Someone hinted at this earlier, but the elephant in the room is ownership's lack of interest in winning football games. They don't seem to be against the idea, exactly, but it's not how they measure success. The money still flows in, last I checked they'd cut/bought Mugs Halas's kids out of the ownership structure, and they still get a handful of nationally broadcast games a year, where there'll be a clip of Bulldog Turner and a shot of Virginia McCaskey shivering under twelve blankets in her suite.

For ownership, that's a win.

The GM will always have the green light to make stupid deals, because stupid deals keep the team in the news and keep the fan base riled up. On the football side of things, the only thing that counts is the magnitude of the effort; the results don't matter. That won't change until ownership does.

And there's no reason for it ever to change. In some ways--the ways that matter to the McCaskeys--the Bears have the best situation in the entire league. Five generations or so of fans, no local competition for the last 60 years, and a lightweight deal on their stadium. Compared to New York and LA, the Bears are free to print money. The only thing close to a point of comparison might be the Packers. But the Packers have to be competitive on the field to survive. The Bears don't.

That might explain all the harping on "collaboration," too. I've worked at a few places that prided themselves on having a flat organizational structure. It's always code for "you know who's really in charge, but if we don't define a hierarchy, I can just rule by whim." On the business side, I'm sure that the Bears have a firm and functional structure. On the football side, "collaboration" distributes authority to a point where no one really has any, at least not beyond what Phillips and whatever McCaskeys are masquerading as Rooneys at the moment decide to pretend they'll have.

So Pace is just a kid in a sandbox. A two-year-old on a swing, yanking on the chains and kicking his legs out of unison and yelling every once in a while "Why am I not going anywhere?" And ownership sits on a bench, a little tight on the box of white wine they've snuck into the diaper bag, and says "Well, that's nice, dear."

[o-pus #40 in B major]

What happens when March is over?

Do we get a new thread or will you guys just change the name of this one?

And we haven't really gotten into Jay Cutler yet either.

Regarding Jay Cutler:

I got two #6 sweatshirts that I wear on alternating days when I am pissed off at the world. Nobody ever says shit to me on those days, except my ex-mother in law.

[RichH55]

But no. Pace panicked and now it doesn't look like we'll draft a QB either.

Overpaying for a "Starting" QB in offseason a month before the draft then drafting 1 early?

Pace would never do that!

[dplank]

Philosophy and strategy and non existent at Halas Hall

[DevilsProspect]

I had no problem with drafting Trubisky. (I actually liked his selection at the time) He didn’t pan out but it happens.

What I do have a problem with, was the moving up to get him when there were several they could have settled with even if someone jumped if front of bears at number 2.

The rest was absolute disaster. Glennon and Foles were horrible over pays with not much upside. Those two moves should have had him fired already. I would have taken just about any remaining FA out there for much cheaper and they would have been better. Guys like Dalton etc.

Other than the craps on QBs. Quinn was the move that makes me want to ram my head into the wall. Even if he had a good year, you can’t just keep throwing money at defense. With the money tied up there it screws you everywhere else. How much money is paid to LBs right now? It’s crazy.

[Yogi da Bear]

Has anybody ever explained to Ryan Pace that the objective of the offseason is to get better? Maybe they should.

[Mikefive]

Someone hinted at this earlier, but the elephant in the room is ownership's lack of interest in winning football games. They don't seem to be against the idea, exactly, but it's not how they measure success. The money still flows in, last I checked they'd cut/bought Mugs Halas's kids out of the ownership structure, and they still get a handful of nationally broadcast games a year, where there'll be a clip of Bulldog Turner and a shot of Virginia McCaskey shivering under twelve blankets in her suite.

For ownership, that's a win.

The GM will always have the green light to make stupid deals, because stupid deals keep the team in the news and keep the fan base riled up. On the football side of things, the only thing that counts is the magnitude of the effort; the results don't matter. That won't change until ownership does.

And there's no reason for it ever to change. In some ways--the ways that matter to the McCaskeys--the Bears have the best situation in the entire league. Five generations or so of fans, no local competition for the last 60 years, and a lightweight deal on their stadium. Compared to New York and LA, the Bears are free to print money. The only thing close to a point of comparison might be the Packers. But the Packers have to be competitive on the field to survive. The Bears don't.

That might explain all the harping on "collaboration," too. I've worked at a few places that prided themselves on having a flat organizational structure. It's always code for "you know who's really in charge, but if we don't define a hierarchy, I can just rule by whim." On the business side, I'm sure that the Bears have a firm and functional structure. On the football side, "collaboration" distributes authority to a point where no one really has any, at least not beyond what Phillips and whatever McCaskeys are masquerading as Rooneys at the moment decide to pretend they'll have.

So Pace is just a kid in a sandbox. A two-year-old on a swing, yanking on the chains and kicking his legs out of unison and yelling every once in a while "Why am I not going anywhere?" And ownership sits on a bench, a little tight on the box of white wine they've snuck into the diaper bag, and says "Well, that's nice, dear."

Great to see you and your splendidly acidic writing, sir.

[Mikefive]

When you're such an unattractive option for FAs, doesn't that make rebuilding your only option?

[thunderspirit]

Someone hinted at this earlier, but the elephant in the room is ownership's lack of interest in winning football games. They don't seem to be against the idea, exactly, but it's not how they measure success. The money still flows in, last I checked they'd cut/bought Mugs Halas's kids out of the ownership structure, and they still get a handful of nationally broadcast games a year, where there'll be a clip of Bulldog Turner and a shot of Virginia McCaskey shivering under twelve blankets in her suite.

For ownership, that's a win.

The GM will always have the green light to make stupid deals, because stupid deals keep the team in the news and keep the fan base riled up. On the football side of things, the only thing that counts is the magnitude of the effort; the results don't matter. That won't change until ownership does.

And there's no reason for it ever to change. In some ways--the ways that matter to the McCaskeys--the Bears have the best situation in the entire league. Five generations or so of fans, no local competition for the last 60 years, and a lightweight deal on their stadium. Compared to New York and LA, the Bears are free to print money. The only thing close to a point of comparison might be the Packers. But the Packers have to be competitive on the field to survive. The Bears don't.

That might explain all the harping on "collaboration," too. I've worked at a few places that prided themselves on having a flat organizational structure. It's always code for "you know who's really in charge, but if we don't define a hierarchy, I can just rule by whim." On the business side, I'm sure that the Bears have a firm and functional structure. On the football side, "collaboration" distributes authority to a point where no one really has any, at least not beyond what Phillips and whatever McCaskeys are masquerading as Rooneys at the moment decide to pretend they'll have.

So Pace is just a kid in a sandbox. A two-year-old on a swing, yanking on the chains and kicking his legs out of unison and yelling every once in a while "Why am I not going anywhere?" And ownership sits on a bench, a little tight on the box of white wine they've snuck into the diaper bag, and says "Well, that's nice, dear."

Great to see you and your splendidly acidic writing, sir.

I can cosign this.

[karhu]

Thanks, Mike; thanks, thunder. Been a crazy four years or so.

[Burl]

Someone hinted at this earlier, but the elephant in the room is ownership's lack of interest in winning football games. They don't seem to be against the idea, exactly, but it's not how they measure success. The money still flows in, last I checked they'd cut/bought Mugs Halas's kids out of the ownership structure, and they still get a handful of nationally broadcast games a year, where there'll be a clip of Bulldog Turner and a shot of Virginia McCaskey shivering under twelve blankets in her suite.

For ownership, that's a win.

The GM will always have the green light to make stupid deals, because stupid deals keep the team in the news and keep the fan base riled up. On the football side of things, the only thing that counts is the magnitude of the effort; the results don't matter. That won't change until ownership does.

And there's no reason for it ever to change. In some ways--the ways that matter to the McCaskeys--the Bears have the best situation in the entire league. Five generations or so of fans, no local competition for the last 60 years, and a lightweight deal on their stadium. Compared to New York and LA, the Bears are free to print money. The only thing close to a point of comparison might be the Packers. But the Packers have to be competitive on the field to survive. The Bears don't.

That might explain all the harping on "collaboration," too. I've worked at a few places that prided themselves on having a flat organizational structure. It's always code for "you know who's really in charge, but if we don't define a hierarchy, I can just rule by whim." On the business side, I'm sure that the Bears have a firm and functional structure. On the football side, "collaboration" distributes authority to a point where no one really has any, at least not beyond what Phillips and whatever McCaskeys are masquerading as Rooneys at the moment decide to pretend they'll have.

So Pace is just a kid in a sandbox. A two-year-old on a swing, yanking on the chains and kicking his legs out of unison and yelling every once in a while "Why am I not going anywhere?" And ownership sits on a bench, a little tight on the box of white wine they've snuck into the diaper bag, and says "Well, that's nice, dear."

Fun rant, but not reflective of what's actually happening with the team.

We've seen ownership fire GMs for poor performance. They're quite obviously not content with what Angelo and Emery produced. They seem to be giving Pace more time, but to conflate that with simply being aloof to team needs as they cash the checks ignores what they've done previously with other GMs.

And if the GM has the green light to make the deals he wants, and ownership is willing to pay for top tier coaches and players (they are, and have been willing for some time now) than what exactly else can be expected of the owners? They're not football experts to they tried hard to hire one to lead the team. They've taken multiple paths to trying to hire the best GMs out there, from seeking help from advisors like Accorsi to outsourcing the search entirely as they did with Angelo. Sure, they might not have got the right guy, but it's not for lack of trying.

And meanwhile, they've invested heavily in improving facilities, training fields, support staff, etc. to try and build a winner.

With regard to Pace's "collaborative" leadership style, I agree with you there to some degree. Although remember he drafted Mitch without even consulting Fox, so I dont think he necessarily lacks the cajones to make the moves he wants. He might make bad moves, but he isn't afraid to be bold. Being on the same page, and collaborating for the needs of the HC isn't necessarily a bad thing unless the HC doesn't really know what he's doing, and unfortunately I kind of think that's where we are with Nagy. Angelo sort of fell off once he had to start collaborating with Lovie, too.

[Artbest]

Jerry Angelo had more time on the job than pace has had to date. He deserved more time than Ryan, having produced three division champions, 2 nfc title games and a super bowl - but ownership stuck with Jerry for awhile.

As for pace vs Nagy, they both appear to be a problem, but the issues start with the gm. Draft day blunders began before Nagy arrived. 1st round draft blunders began before Nagy was hired. The disaster that was the 2017 draft occurred before Nagys arrival. The current debacle - cap strapped, age on defense, no QB, no offensive tackles, falls squarely on the gm. The bears had the leagues 3rd oldest roster heading into this offseason with little to show for it and a plethora of holes.

Pace has found some gems later in the draft and made some shrewd udfa and ufa pickups but, overall, hasn’t been up to the task...which has been apparent since he arrived

[The Marshall Plan]

Someone hinted at this earlier, but the elephant in the room is ownership's lack of interest in winning football games. They don't seem to be against the idea, exactly, but it's not how they measure success. The money still flows in, last I checked they'd cut/bought Mugs Halas's kids out of the ownership structure, and they still get a handful of nationally broadcast games a year, where there'll be a clip of Bulldog Turner and a shot of Virginia McCaskey shivering under twelve blankets in her suite.

For ownership, that's a win.

The GM will always have the green light to make stupid deals, because stupid deals keep the team in the news and keep the fan base riled up. On the football side of things, the only thing that counts is the magnitude of the effort; the results don't matter. That won't change until ownership does.

And there's no reason for it ever to change. In some ways--the ways that matter to the McCaskeys--the Bears have the best situation in the entire league. Five generations or so of fans, no local competition for the last 60 years, and a lightweight deal on their stadium. Compared to New York and LA, the Bears are free to print money. The only thing close to a point of comparison might be the Packers. But the Packers have to be competitive on the field to survive. The Bears don't.

That might explain all the harping on "collaboration," too. I've worked at a few places that prided themselves on having a flat organizational structure. It's always code for "you know who's really in charge, but if we don't define a hierarchy, I can just rule by whim." On the business side, I'm sure that the Bears have a firm and functional structure. On the football side, "collaboration" distributes authority to a point where no one really has any, at least not beyond what Phillips and whatever McCaskeys are masquerading as Rooneys at the moment decide to pretend they'll have.

So Pace is just a kid in a sandbox. A two-year-old on a swing, yanking on the chains and kicking his legs out of unison and yelling every once in a while "Why am I not going anywhere?" And ownership sits on a bench, a little tight on the box of white wine they've snuck into the diaper bag, and says "Well, that's nice, dear."

Fun rant, but not reflective of what's actually happening with the team.

We've seen ownership fire GMs for poor performance. They're quite obviously not content with what Angelo and Emery produced. They seem to be giving Pace more time, but to conflate that with simply being aloof to team needs as they cash the checks ignores what they've done previously with other GMs.

And if the GM has the green light to make the deals he wants, and ownership is willing to pay for top tier coaches and players (they are, and have been willing for some time now) than what exactly else can be expected of the owners? They're not football experts to they tried hard to hire one to lead the team. They've taken multiple paths to trying to hire the best GMs out there, from seeking help from advisors like Accorsi to outsourcing the search entirely as they did with Angelo. Sure, they might not have got the right guy, but it's not for lack of trying.

And meanwhile, they've invested heavily in improving facilities, training fields, support staff, etc. to try and build a winner.

With regard to Pace's "collaborative" leadership style, I agree with you there to some degree. Although remember he drafted Mitch without even consulting Fox, so I dont think he necessarily lacks the cajones to make the moves he wants. He might make bad moves, but he isn't afraid to be bold. Being on the same page, and collaborating for the needs of the HC isn't necessarily a bad thing unless the HC doesn't really know what he's doing, and unfortunately I kind of think that's where we are with Nagy. Angelo sort of fell off once he had to start collaborating with Lovie, too.

Please name one top tier HC the Bears have hired since they fired Ditka.

And don't say Fox because he was past his prime.

Please name one top tier GM the Bears have hired.

[karhu]

Fun rant, but not reflective of what's actually happening with the team.

We've seen ownership fire GMs for poor performance. They're quite obviously not content with what Angelo and Emery produced. They seem to be giving Pace more time, but to conflate that with simply being aloof to team needs as they cash the checks ignores what they've done previously with other GMs.

We've also seen them fire Jerry Vainisi for going 14-2 and force Bill Tobin out in favor of giving Dave Wannstedt final say on personnel matters. QED.

And if the GM has the green light to make the deals he wants, and ownership is willing to pay for top tier coaches and players (they are, and have been willing for some time now) than what exactly else can be expected of the owners? They're not football experts to they tried hard to hire one to lead the team.

Exactly. They're only the daughter and grandchildren of the man who popularized professional football and built the NFL. They run a family business worth three and a half billion dollars. They've learned that business well enough for their purposes. Which have only coincidentally to do with football operations.

They've taken multiple paths to trying to hire the best GMs out there, from seeking help from advisors like Accorsi to outsourcing the search entirely as they did with Angelo. Sure, they might not have got the right guy, but it's not for lack of trying.

And it's exactly that kind of try-hard moxie that they appreciate in every customer-facing employee. Wins and losses, we should agree by now, be damned.

And meanwhile, they've invested heavily in improving facilities, training fields, support staff, etc.

Yes.

to try and build a winner.

No.

With regard to Pace's "collaborative" leadership style, I agree with you there to some degree. Although remember he drafted Mitch without even consulting Fox, so I dont think he necessarily lacks the cajones to make the moves he wants.

It's not about cajones. Spencer Jones had cajones. "Collaboration" has been a buzzword around Halas Hall for decades now, at least since Jerry Angelo restored the glory of the office of GM. The point I was driving at is that all this talk about collaborative decision-making is bullshit. It only gives cover to the team's executives. Remember how Pace described the process right after drafting Trubisky? Saying that he and Fox were "arm in arm" in the decision, and that the entire scouting department agreed with him? He got to spew all that, with no effective blowback, because it's what Phillips and the McCaskeys wanted to hear. Fast forward, &ct., &ct.

He might make bad moves, but he isn't afraid to be bold.

Well, bless.

Being on the same page, and collaborating for the needs of the HC isn't necessarily a bad thing unless the HC doesn't really know what he's doing, and unfortunately I kind of think that's where we are with Nagy. Angelo sort of fell off once he had to start collaborating with Lovie, too.

Functional collaboration is a great thing, a necessary thing. Collaboration as the center of your decision-making process can lead to drafts like...I dunno...Pace's first three. Not that the others have been great, either. I don't see the dramatic difference that you must.

The difference with Angelo is that he lost a ton of power to Lovie Smith after 2006. Call it what you will, it looked like the tail wagging the dog on personnel issues.

[Otis Day]

I have finally got control and have decided, FUCK IT!! I have decided to just chill out on the Bears. Putting the swag away for awhile, telling peeps to quit buying me hats, T shirts or anything else Bears. Don't want to give this organization anymore $$ till they get serious about fielding a consistent contender.

[dplank]

Could be worse, they could’ve listened to me ranting on and on about trading for Watson. Yeesh that looks BAAASAD right now. Houston screwed up, should’ve moved him when they had the chance.

[IE]

To me it looks like Pace and Nagy convinced those above them that it simply comes down to a few things that they can fix, and can't be really held responsible for themselves. We're victims of Coicumstances! Management and ownership like them, and chose to believe it even if its heavy spin:

1. A concensus good pick at the time that turned out to be a huge draft mistake. Pace didn't fail - everybody liked the kid. Nagy really IS a QB whisperer and a good coach! Anyway... that resulted in a multi-year debacle where the team didn't have the horsepower to compete with good teams. "We have a team that can contend - we really only need Foles and another mid-level vet to win... and we promise we'll draft the QB of the future as well". Dalton is the guy, and I'm leaning toward they will indeed draft Stanford kid.

2. Some seriously bad luck on the Oline last year that can now be mitigated better with draft picks ("Really honestly- Nick isn't THAT bad. It was the Oline bad luck" ... which I sort of agree with even though he disappointed me by turning into a headlight deer himself). They used the Oline performance later in the year as an example of how it was just bad luck.

3. "Vic left for a HC job - and we replaced him with a well-respected guy." But HE failed and goofed up Vic's stellar D (which is mostly still here) ... "but look - we have a disciple of Vic and we can restore that"

[Otis Day]

If Nagy is the QB Whisperer, what is Nagy, The Ownership Whisperer? The BS Whisperer? The Late Round Whisperer? The Fringe Free Agent Whisperer?

[RichH55]

Someone hinted at this earlier, but the elephant in the room is ownership's lack of interest in winning football games. They don't seem to be against the idea, exactly, but it's not how they measure success. The money still flows in, last I checked they'd cut/bought Mugs Halas's kids out of the ownership structure, and they still get a handful of nationally broadcast games a year, where there'll be a clip of Bulldog Turner and a shot of Virginia McCaskey shivering under twelve blankets in her suite.

For ownership, that's a win.

The GM will always have the green light to make stupid deals, because stupid deals keep the team in the news and keep the fan base riled up. On the football side of things, the only thing that counts is the magnitude of the effort; the results don't matter. That won't change until ownership does.

And there's no reason for it ever to change. In some ways--the ways that matter to the McCaskeys--the Bears have the best situation in the entire league. Five generations or so of fans, no local competition for the last 60 years, and a lightweight deal on their stadium. Compared to New York and LA, the Bears are free to print money. The only thing close to a point of comparison might be the Packers. But the Packers have to be competitive on the field to survive. The Bears don't.

That might explain all the harping on "collaboration," too. I've worked at a few places that prided themselves on having a flat organizational structure. It's always code for "you know who's really in charge, but if we don't define a hierarchy, I can just rule by whim." On the business side, I'm sure that the Bears have a firm and functional structure. On the football side, "collaboration" distributes authority to a point where no one really has any, at least not beyond what Phillips and whatever McCaskeys are masquerading as Rooneys at the moment decide to pretend they'll have.

So Pace is just a kid in a sandbox. A two-year-old on a swing, yanking on the chains and kicking his legs out of unison and yelling every once in a while "Why am I not going anywhere?" And ownership sits on a bench, a little tight on the box of white wine they've snuck into the diaper bag, and says "Well, that's nice, dear."

Fun rant, but not reflective of what's actually happening with the team.

That's where I wound up too

The whole the Bears don't want to win - or don't want to spend money just isn't backed up by the facts

Granted the whole spending money wisely or drafting smart - or the high profile hires/signings being right? WHOLE different discussion

But just because Robert Quinn sucks doesn't mean we aren't paying him alot

[RichH55]

Could be worse, they could’ve listened to me ranting on and on about trading for Watson. Yeesh that looks BAAASAD right now. Houston screwed up, should’ve moved him when they had the chance.

Said it before - Watson is the perfect Patriot

[malk]

Moving aside from the specifics here, I do find it darkly comic that there's a contingent here that seemingly split their views evenly between:

1. I've been watching this franchise wallow in the mire or XX years and can barely be bothered watching any longer.
2. Look, these moves by the GM are normal and sensible, imagine thinking that things could be done differently.

[dplank]

Moving aside from the specifics here, I do find it darkly comic that there's a contingent here that seemingly split their views evenly between:

1. I've been watching this franchise wallow in the mire or XX years and can barely be bothered watching any longer.
2. Look, these moves by the GM are normal and sensible, imagine thinking that things could be done differently.

lol, and another...

3. I barely care about the Bears anymore but spend gobs of time on a Bears Fan Site