Hicks v Fuller poll

For all things Chicago Bears

Moderator: wab

Hicks or Fuller, you can only keep one, who and why?

Hicks
16
67%
Fuller
8
33%
 
Total votes: 24
User avatar
dplank
Hall of Famer
Posts: 12025
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:19 am
Has thanked: 1201 times
Been thanked: 2138 times

Hicks or Fuller, who are you keeping?

I’m keeping Hicks. D starts by stopping the run, and then it becomes great when you can also pressure the QB consistently.
User avatar
southdakbearfan
Head Coach
Posts: 4600
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:23 pm
Location: South Dakota
Has thanked: 763 times
Been thanked: 328 times

Hicks, if only for a season or two.
User avatar
AZ_Bearfan
MVP
Posts: 1492
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:49 pm
Location: Mesa, AZ
Has thanked: 132 times
Been thanked: 77 times

I put Hicks, but both of those guys are tough to replace.
Image
User avatar
AZ_Bearfan
MVP
Posts: 1492
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:49 pm
Location: Mesa, AZ
Has thanked: 132 times
Been thanked: 77 times

I liked Hicks at first. But once I saw him play mic'd up, I fell in love. The biggest, loudest, baddest dude on the field and he lets everyone know it.
Image
User avatar
crueltyabc
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5119
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 7:36 pm
Location: Dallas TX
Has thanked: 79 times
Been thanked: 226 times

Fuller because CBs are more important in the modern NFL.
xyt in the discord chats
DevilsProspect
Pro Bowler
Posts: 445
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:37 pm
Location: Atlantic City, NJ

I say hicks as well, Mack seems to do better when the bad man is playing.
AC 46Blitz
User avatar
The Marshall Plan
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8411
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:47 am
Location: Parts Unknown
Has thanked: 909 times
Been thanked: 1277 times

Fuller.

He's younger and less injury prone.

All things being equal? Then Hicks.
Image
User avatar
Mikefive
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5189
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:33 pm
Location: Valparaiso, IN, USA
Has thanked: 340 times
Been thanked: 278 times

The Marshall Plan wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:06 am Fuller.

He's younger and less injury prone.

All things being equal? Then Hicks.
This right here. The only kicker is that Fuller would've needed a new contract in a year. Not sure how long Hicks is signed for.
Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".

Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
HurricaneBear
Head Coach
Posts: 2165
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:56 am
Has thanked: 1852 times
Been thanked: 350 times

Fuller hands down.

Hicks is getting old, is overweight and it's catching up to him, and takes way too many plays off. Sick of seeing him just stand straight up at the snap and not do anything. For the "heart and soul of the D" as he's been called thats a bad look. Supposed to be a leader and the D gave up at the end of the season, I put that partly on Hicks as if he truly is the leader then the other players will follow what hes doing. Also his production is slipping, he looked like the old Hicks until week 3 or 4 and then was a shell of who he formerly was.

Also too many stupid penalties by Hicks that are unacceptable. I wish the Bears would finally be ahead of the curve as to getting rid of aging players. Hicks needs to go! Can't wait til hes not on this team anymore.

Fine with Fuller gone too as this team needs to stop putting so much money into the D, but if I had to chose one to stay it would be Fuller every single time.
User avatar
Arkansasbear
Head Coach
Posts: 4817
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:41 am
Has thanked: 457 times
Been thanked: 655 times

Mikefive wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:13 am
The Marshall Plan wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:06 am Fuller.

He's younger and less injury prone.

All things being equal? Then Hicks.
This right here. The only kicker is that Fuller would've needed a new contract in a year. Not sure how long Hicks is signed for.
Both of them were set to be FA after this year.

If you are looking at it based on where the team stands right now, the answer to me is Hicks and I don't even think it's close.

Both guys are huge parts of the defense and whichever one you have to get rid of creates a huge hole in the defense. But we were able to replace Fuller with Trufant - a former pro-bowler and a very good CB. You also still have Sherman, Butler and Heyward out on the FA market. Add in the draft is deep at CB, OT and WR. You can draft a guy rounds 1-3 and he could be the long term solution and there should be many options at CB worth the pick to choose from.

If they had cut Hicks, who out there on the FA market are you bringing in??? The draft for DL is not strong, so if you decide to address it in the draft, you increase the chances of overreaching for a player.

Now if the question would have been which guy to you keep and EXTEND, I think it becomes a more difficult question to answer. Hicks is 2 (maybe 3) years older and have missed time due to injuries. But DL guys tend to be able to play at a higher level into their mid 30s (or so it appears, I don't have any facts so I could be off base there).
User avatar
thunderspirit
Head Coach
Posts: 3829
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:51 pm
Location: Greater Chicagoland, IL
Has thanked: 605 times
Been thanked: 603 times

How many people are Hicks' size?
How many are Fuller's size?

So which one should -- theoretically -- be easier to replace?

That's a big part of why Hicks is still here and Fuller isn't.
KFFL refugee.

dplank wrote:I agree with Rich here
RichH55 wrote: Dplank is correct
:shocked:
User avatar
IE
Hall of Famer
Posts: 12500
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:46 am
Location: Plymouth, MI
Has thanked: 523 times
Been thanked: 700 times
Contact:

I think Hicks could take him.


OK seriously, I voted for neither. I think Hicks is on the descent, and his penalties at unfortunate times are maddening to me. And I believe Fuller peaked young and is going to milk it by being a "high paid probowl corner" for years while not playing like a probowl corner.

$10MM an INT? Sorry, I don't care how good you are in run support or getting some passes defended. To be a top corner you absolutely need to take the ball from the other team.

I'm a full proponent of a youth movement on defense. Surrounded by hungry FAs trying to make a name for themselves.
2023 Chicago Bears... emerging from a long hibernation, and hungry!
User avatar
wab
Mod
Posts: 29805
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 1956 times

I voted for the one that is still on the roster.
User avatar
Yogi da Bear
Head Coach
Posts: 2499
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:43 pm
Has thanked: 209 times
Been thanked: 359 times

First, there is something practical to consider--money. Fuller was set to make 20 mill, Hicks 10. Easy decision.

But on a straight up basis, I still vote Hicks. Football is won in the trenches. When Hicks is healthy, he impacts the entire defense. He forces the offense to devote two offensive linemen to him and protects our LBs. He collapses the pocket and solidifies the run defense. He creates opportunities for the backend to make plays.

Think of the '85 defense. Wasn't Danimal the most critical piece of that defense. Even Singletary finally admitted it was so when Hampton retired.

With Hicks now, he wears out. You would too if you constantly faced double teams. We have to keep him fresh, so we need more bodies along the DL to help with that. But when he's fresh, offenses have to account for him on every single play. With a corner like Fuller, you can just stay away from him, as opposing offenses have done for the past couple of years. In 2018, offenses made the mistake of targeting him. At that time, I just laughed.
User avatar
Bears Whiskey Nut
Hall of Famer
Posts: 11017
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:06 am
Location: Oak Park, IL
Has thanked: 77 times
Been thanked: 516 times

I'm keeping Hicks. He's a leader, his salary is more realistic, and he's more consistent.
Image
User avatar
Burl
Crafty Veteran
Posts: 936
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:28 am
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 226 times

Fuller.
More consistent player, younger, less prone to injury.
With Goldman coming back, I still think the DL can be pretty good without Hicks.
Without Fuller, were one Johnson shoulder ding from Kindle Vildor facing Davante Adams.
User avatar
wab
Mod
Posts: 29805
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 1956 times

This isn't to pile onto Fuller, because he was a really good and consistent cover player. But he was getting paid to make turnovers and outside of his all pro year in 2018 - he averaged 2 picks per season. Even when you add his all pro year in, it's 2.7 picks per season (tad unfair considering he missed a year due to injury... but it is what it is).
User avatar
The Cooler King
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5005
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:07 pm
Has thanked: 1203 times
Been thanked: 346 times

Yogi da Bear wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:04 pm First, there is something practical to consider--money. Fuller was set to make 20 mill, Hicks 10. Easy decision.
This is so so wrong, Yogi.
User avatar
The Cooler King
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5005
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:07 pm
Has thanked: 1203 times
Been thanked: 346 times

wab wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:23 pm This isn't to pile onto Fuller, because he was a really good and consistent cover player. But he was getting paid to make turnovers and outside of his all pro year in 2018 - he averaged 2 picks per season. Even when you add his all pro year in, it's 2.7 picks per season (tad unfair considering he missed a year due to injury... but it is what it is).
Counterpoint, picks are very fluky and a result of luck/chances more than talent.
User avatar
Grizzled
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5552
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:55 pm
Has thanked: 605 times
Been thanked: 485 times

Hicks. Runstopper, disrupter, puts pressure on the QB. Plus I like to see big tough guys in the middle of the field blowing up plays.
Drafts are like snowflakes, no two are alike.
User avatar
Arkansasbear
Head Coach
Posts: 4817
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:41 am
Has thanked: 457 times
Been thanked: 655 times

The Cooler King wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:47 pm
Yogi da Bear wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:04 pm First, there is something practical to consider--money. Fuller was set to make 20 mill, Hicks 10. Easy decision.
This is so so wrong, Yogi.
Why is that wrong? I think they both had very similar dead cap numbers. If you cut Fuller, free up more money to spend to find his replacement and solidify other roster spots. So you have a better chance IMO to be better on defense.

Money is always a factor in why a team does what it does. It can't be the end all factor but it has to be considered.
User avatar
Yogi da Bear
Head Coach
Posts: 2499
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:43 pm
Has thanked: 209 times
Been thanked: 359 times

Grizzled wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:30 pm Hicks. Runstopper, disrupter, puts pressure on the QB. Plus I like to see big tough guys in the middle of the field blowing up plays.
All true, and again, missing a very important factor. Hicks' presence protects our LBs. It enables Roquan to flow to the ball unimpeded. That's huge.
User avatar
dplank
Hall of Famer
Posts: 12025
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:19 am
Has thanked: 1201 times
Been thanked: 2138 times

The Cooler King wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:47 pm
wab wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:23 pm This isn't to pile onto Fuller, because he was a really good and consistent cover player. But he was getting paid to make turnovers and outside of his all pro year in 2018 - he averaged 2 picks per season. Even when you add his all pro year in, it's 2.7 picks per season (tad unfair considering he missed a year due to injury... but it is what it is).
Counterpoint, picks are very fluky and a result of luck/chances more than talent.
Tell that to PrimeTime. I couldn’t disagree more. A better argument is that picks are a team effort, and QB pressure plays a BIG part in INT numbers. Hicks keeps our front 7 potentially dominant. It’s been two years of Pagano and w/o both Hicks and Goldman on the field together. This year they’ll be together, Nichols has come into his own, and Desai takes over for chuckles the clown. I think our D has a great chance to be very good, better than either 2019 or 2020.
User avatar
The Cooler King
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5005
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:07 pm
Has thanked: 1203 times
Been thanked: 346 times

dplank wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:10 pm
The Cooler King wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:47 pm

Counterpoint, picks are very fluky and a result of luck/chances more than talent.
Tell that to PrimeTime. I couldn’t disagree more. A better argument is that picks are a team effort, and QB pressure plays a BIG part in INT numbers. Hicks keeps our front 7 potentially dominant. It’s been two years of Pagano and w/o both Hicks and Goldman on the field together. This year they’ll be together, Nichols has come into his own, and Desai takes over for chuckles the clown. I think our D has a great chance to be very good, better than either 2019 or 2020.
I'll accept the team effort component, but that still leaves it as a very fluky metric to measure individual players by.

Obviously there's some skill. Soft hands DB catches throws that Stone hands DB drops. But there are some ways to measure for that a bit. Most the rest is a reflection of chance (and somewhat counterintuatively a lock down corner who's very good just gets less opportunities if they drape their man in coverage).
User avatar
The Cooler King
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5005
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:07 pm
Has thanked: 1203 times
Been thanked: 346 times

Arkansasbear wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:38 pm
The Cooler King wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:47 pm

This is so so wrong, Yogi.
Why is that wrong? I think they both had very similar dead cap numbers. If you cut Fuller, free up more money to spend to find his replacement and solidify other roster spots. So you have a better chance IMO to be better on defense.

Money is always a factor in why a team does what it does. It can't be the end all factor but it has to be considered.
Fullers cap hit was 20M. That's way different than being owed 20M. Incidentally, Hicks cap hit is 12. So we're not even using the same metric

But yea dead money is irrelevant to the discussion. It's very presence means you can't escape it.

So the relevant number IMO is 14 v 10.5. But a bare minimum would be using the same metric for each.
User avatar
HisRoyalSweetness
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5901
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:20 pm
Has thanked: 61 times
Been thanked: 1716 times

wab wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:23 pm This isn't to pile onto Fuller, because he was a really good and consistent cover player. But he was getting paid to make turnovers and outside of his all pro year in 2018 - he averaged 2 picks per season. Even when you add his all pro year in, it's 2.7 picks per season (tad unfair considering he missed a year due to injury... but it is what it is).
For what it's worth, since Fuller entered the league in 2014 he's joint 9th in interceptions and joint 6th in passes defended. Since he signed his new contract in 2018 he's joint 6th in interceptions and joint 4th in passes defended.

Of the 25 active players who have more interceptions than Fuller, only two have been in the league for fewer than Fuller's 7 years. The other 23 have all played at least one season more and 15 have played 10 or more seasons.

Richard Sherman is the leader with 36 in 10 seasons, but 22 of his came in his first 3 seasons at the height of the 'Legion of Boom'. He's had only 16 in the last 7 seasons, 3 fewer than Fuller.

It's a lot harder to get interceptions these days when most starting QBs are throwing less than a dozen a season. Fuller's faced Aaron Rogers twice a year and he's averaged 5.3 INTs a season since 2014. :frustrated:
User avatar
dplank
Hall of Famer
Posts: 12025
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:19 am
Has thanked: 1201 times
Been thanked: 2138 times

One big problem this past season was our run defense. Hicks/Goldman/Nichols will be really hard to run on. So much size inside, reminds me of the Ted Washington / Keith Traylor duo.
User avatar
southdakbearfan
Head Coach
Posts: 4600
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:23 pm
Location: South Dakota
Has thanked: 763 times
Been thanked: 328 times

I think the d line got fuller that fat contract. Pressure on qbs make average CBs look good and good look great.
User avatar
Umbali
MVP
Posts: 1042
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:32 pm
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 83 times

For me it was easy . Next year both are gone. So this year keep Hicks. If Mack is the centerpiece of our D than its easy. He does better when Hicks is in the game and then add back in Goldman.

I still remember people wanting Fuller to be gone and now they are crying that he is actually gone.

To me its easier to replace a CB cus you get some help in a scheme.
Fantasy Team: Peanut Punchers
User avatar
Grizzled
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5552
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:55 pm
Has thanked: 605 times
Been thanked: 485 times

dplank wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:33 pm One big problem this past season was our run defense. Hicks/Goldman/Nichols will be really hard to run on. So much size inside, reminds me of the Ted Washington / Keith Traylor duo.
That was a pair of runstoppers who took a lot of pressure off the secondary. Hopefully Hicks/Goldman/Nichols come close in '21.
Drafts are like snowflakes, no two are alike.
Post Reply