Hicks or Fuller, who are you keeping?
I’m keeping Hicks. D starts by stopping the run, and then it becomes great when you can also pressure the QB consistently.
Hicks v Fuller poll
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Hicks, if only for a season or two.
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I put Hicks, but both of those guys are tough to replace.
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I liked Hicks at first. But once I saw him play mic'd up, I fell in love. The biggest, loudest, baddest dude on the field and he lets everyone know it.
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Fuller because CBs are more important in the modern NFL.
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I say hicks as well, Mack seems to do better when the bad man is playing.
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Fuller.
He's younger and less injury prone.
All things being equal? Then Hicks.
He's younger and less injury prone.
All things being equal? Then Hicks.
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This right here. The only kicker is that Fuller would've needed a new contract in a year. Not sure how long Hicks is signed for.The Marshall Plan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:06 am Fuller.
He's younger and less injury prone.
All things being equal? Then Hicks.
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Fuller hands down.
Hicks is getting old, is overweight and it's catching up to him, and takes way too many plays off. Sick of seeing him just stand straight up at the snap and not do anything. For the "heart and soul of the D" as he's been called thats a bad look. Supposed to be a leader and the D gave up at the end of the season, I put that partly on Hicks as if he truly is the leader then the other players will follow what hes doing. Also his production is slipping, he looked like the old Hicks until week 3 or 4 and then was a shell of who he formerly was.
Also too many stupid penalties by Hicks that are unacceptable. I wish the Bears would finally be ahead of the curve as to getting rid of aging players. Hicks needs to go! Can't wait til hes not on this team anymore.
Fine with Fuller gone too as this team needs to stop putting so much money into the D, but if I had to chose one to stay it would be Fuller every single time.
Hicks is getting old, is overweight and it's catching up to him, and takes way too many plays off. Sick of seeing him just stand straight up at the snap and not do anything. For the "heart and soul of the D" as he's been called thats a bad look. Supposed to be a leader and the D gave up at the end of the season, I put that partly on Hicks as if he truly is the leader then the other players will follow what hes doing. Also his production is slipping, he looked like the old Hicks until week 3 or 4 and then was a shell of who he formerly was.
Also too many stupid penalties by Hicks that are unacceptable. I wish the Bears would finally be ahead of the curve as to getting rid of aging players. Hicks needs to go! Can't wait til hes not on this team anymore.
Fine with Fuller gone too as this team needs to stop putting so much money into the D, but if I had to chose one to stay it would be Fuller every single time.
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Both of them were set to be FA after this year.Mikefive wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:13 amThis right here. The only kicker is that Fuller would've needed a new contract in a year. Not sure how long Hicks is signed for.The Marshall Plan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:06 am Fuller.
He's younger and less injury prone.
All things being equal? Then Hicks.
If you are looking at it based on where the team stands right now, the answer to me is Hicks and I don't even think it's close.
Both guys are huge parts of the defense and whichever one you have to get rid of creates a huge hole in the defense. But we were able to replace Fuller with Trufant - a former pro-bowler and a very good CB. You also still have Sherman, Butler and Heyward out on the FA market. Add in the draft is deep at CB, OT and WR. You can draft a guy rounds 1-3 and he could be the long term solution and there should be many options at CB worth the pick to choose from.
If they had cut Hicks, who out there on the FA market are you bringing in??? The draft for DL is not strong, so if you decide to address it in the draft, you increase the chances of overreaching for a player.
Now if the question would have been which guy to you keep and EXTEND, I think it becomes a more difficult question to answer. Hicks is 2 (maybe 3) years older and have missed time due to injuries. But DL guys tend to be able to play at a higher level into their mid 30s (or so it appears, I don't have any facts so I could be off base there).
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How many people are Hicks' size?
How many are Fuller's size?
So which one should -- theoretically -- be easier to replace?
That's a big part of why Hicks is still here and Fuller isn't.
How many are Fuller's size?
So which one should -- theoretically -- be easier to replace?
That's a big part of why Hicks is still here and Fuller isn't.
KFFL refugee.
dplank wrote:I agree with Rich here
RichH55 wrote: Dplank is correct
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I think Hicks could take him.
OK seriously, I voted for neither. I think Hicks is on the descent, and his penalties at unfortunate times are maddening to me. And I believe Fuller peaked young and is going to milk it by being a "high paid probowl corner" for years while not playing like a probowl corner.
$10MM an INT? Sorry, I don't care how good you are in run support or getting some passes defended. To be a top corner you absolutely need to take the ball from the other team.
I'm a full proponent of a youth movement on defense. Surrounded by hungry FAs trying to make a name for themselves.
OK seriously, I voted for neither. I think Hicks is on the descent, and his penalties at unfortunate times are maddening to me. And I believe Fuller peaked young and is going to milk it by being a "high paid probowl corner" for years while not playing like a probowl corner.
$10MM an INT? Sorry, I don't care how good you are in run support or getting some passes defended. To be a top corner you absolutely need to take the ball from the other team.
I'm a full proponent of a youth movement on defense. Surrounded by hungry FAs trying to make a name for themselves.
2023 Chicago Bears... emerging from a long hibernation, and hungry!
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I voted for the one that is still on the roster.
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First, there is something practical to consider--money. Fuller was set to make 20 mill, Hicks 10. Easy decision.
But on a straight up basis, I still vote Hicks. Football is won in the trenches. When Hicks is healthy, he impacts the entire defense. He forces the offense to devote two offensive linemen to him and protects our LBs. He collapses the pocket and solidifies the run defense. He creates opportunities for the backend to make plays.
Think of the '85 defense. Wasn't Danimal the most critical piece of that defense. Even Singletary finally admitted it was so when Hampton retired.
With Hicks now, he wears out. You would too if you constantly faced double teams. We have to keep him fresh, so we need more bodies along the DL to help with that. But when he's fresh, offenses have to account for him on every single play. With a corner like Fuller, you can just stay away from him, as opposing offenses have done for the past couple of years. In 2018, offenses made the mistake of targeting him. At that time, I just laughed.
But on a straight up basis, I still vote Hicks. Football is won in the trenches. When Hicks is healthy, he impacts the entire defense. He forces the offense to devote two offensive linemen to him and protects our LBs. He collapses the pocket and solidifies the run defense. He creates opportunities for the backend to make plays.
Think of the '85 defense. Wasn't Danimal the most critical piece of that defense. Even Singletary finally admitted it was so when Hampton retired.
With Hicks now, he wears out. You would too if you constantly faced double teams. We have to keep him fresh, so we need more bodies along the DL to help with that. But when he's fresh, offenses have to account for him on every single play. With a corner like Fuller, you can just stay away from him, as opposing offenses have done for the past couple of years. In 2018, offenses made the mistake of targeting him. At that time, I just laughed.
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I'm keeping Hicks. He's a leader, his salary is more realistic, and he's more consistent.
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Fuller.
More consistent player, younger, less prone to injury.
With Goldman coming back, I still think the DL can be pretty good without Hicks.
Without Fuller, were one Johnson shoulder ding from Kindle Vildor facing Davante Adams.
More consistent player, younger, less prone to injury.
With Goldman coming back, I still think the DL can be pretty good without Hicks.
Without Fuller, were one Johnson shoulder ding from Kindle Vildor facing Davante Adams.
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This isn't to pile onto Fuller, because he was a really good and consistent cover player. But he was getting paid to make turnovers and outside of his all pro year in 2018 - he averaged 2 picks per season. Even when you add his all pro year in, it's 2.7 picks per season (tad unfair considering he missed a year due to injury... but it is what it is).
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This is so so wrong, Yogi.Yogi da Bear wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:04 pm First, there is something practical to consider--money. Fuller was set to make 20 mill, Hicks 10. Easy decision.
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Counterpoint, picks are very fluky and a result of luck/chances more than talent.wab wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:23 pm This isn't to pile onto Fuller, because he was a really good and consistent cover player. But he was getting paid to make turnovers and outside of his all pro year in 2018 - he averaged 2 picks per season. Even when you add his all pro year in, it's 2.7 picks per season (tad unfair considering he missed a year due to injury... but it is what it is).
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Why is that wrong? I think they both had very similar dead cap numbers. If you cut Fuller, free up more money to spend to find his replacement and solidify other roster spots. So you have a better chance IMO to be better on defense.The Cooler King wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:47 pmThis is so so wrong, Yogi.Yogi da Bear wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:04 pm First, there is something practical to consider--money. Fuller was set to make 20 mill, Hicks 10. Easy decision.
Money is always a factor in why a team does what it does. It can't be the end all factor but it has to be considered.
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All true, and again, missing a very important factor. Hicks' presence protects our LBs. It enables Roquan to flow to the ball unimpeded. That's huge.
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Tell that to PrimeTime. I couldn’t disagree more. A better argument is that picks are a team effort, and QB pressure plays a BIG part in INT numbers. Hicks keeps our front 7 potentially dominant. It’s been two years of Pagano and w/o both Hicks and Goldman on the field together. This year they’ll be together, Nichols has come into his own, and Desai takes over for chuckles the clown. I think our D has a great chance to be very good, better than either 2019 or 2020.The Cooler King wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:47 pmCounterpoint, picks are very fluky and a result of luck/chances more than talent.wab wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:23 pm This isn't to pile onto Fuller, because he was a really good and consistent cover player. But he was getting paid to make turnovers and outside of his all pro year in 2018 - he averaged 2 picks per season. Even when you add his all pro year in, it's 2.7 picks per season (tad unfair considering he missed a year due to injury... but it is what it is).
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I'll accept the team effort component, but that still leaves it as a very fluky metric to measure individual players by.dplank wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:10 pmTell that to PrimeTime. I couldn’t disagree more. A better argument is that picks are a team effort, and QB pressure plays a BIG part in INT numbers. Hicks keeps our front 7 potentially dominant. It’s been two years of Pagano and w/o both Hicks and Goldman on the field together. This year they’ll be together, Nichols has come into his own, and Desai takes over for chuckles the clown. I think our D has a great chance to be very good, better than either 2019 or 2020.The Cooler King wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:47 pm
Counterpoint, picks are very fluky and a result of luck/chances more than talent.
Obviously there's some skill. Soft hands DB catches throws that Stone hands DB drops. But there are some ways to measure for that a bit. Most the rest is a reflection of chance (and somewhat counterintuatively a lock down corner who's very good just gets less opportunities if they drape their man in coverage).
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Fullers cap hit was 20M. That's way different than being owed 20M. Incidentally, Hicks cap hit is 12. So we're not even using the same metricArkansasbear wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:38 pmWhy is that wrong? I think they both had very similar dead cap numbers. If you cut Fuller, free up more money to spend to find his replacement and solidify other roster spots. So you have a better chance IMO to be better on defense.
Money is always a factor in why a team does what it does. It can't be the end all factor but it has to be considered.
But yea dead money is irrelevant to the discussion. It's very presence means you can't escape it.
So the relevant number IMO is 14 v 10.5. But a bare minimum would be using the same metric for each.
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For what it's worth, since Fuller entered the league in 2014 he's joint 9th in interceptions and joint 6th in passes defended. Since he signed his new contract in 2018 he's joint 6th in interceptions and joint 4th in passes defended.wab wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:23 pm This isn't to pile onto Fuller, because he was a really good and consistent cover player. But he was getting paid to make turnovers and outside of his all pro year in 2018 - he averaged 2 picks per season. Even when you add his all pro year in, it's 2.7 picks per season (tad unfair considering he missed a year due to injury... but it is what it is).
Of the 25 active players who have more interceptions than Fuller, only two have been in the league for fewer than Fuller's 7 years. The other 23 have all played at least one season more and 15 have played 10 or more seasons.
Richard Sherman is the leader with 36 in 10 seasons, but 22 of his came in his first 3 seasons at the height of the 'Legion of Boom'. He's had only 16 in the last 7 seasons, 3 fewer than Fuller.
It's a lot harder to get interceptions these days when most starting QBs are throwing less than a dozen a season. Fuller's faced Aaron Rogers twice a year and he's averaged 5.3 INTs a season since 2014.
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One big problem this past season was our run defense. Hicks/Goldman/Nichols will be really hard to run on. So much size inside, reminds me of the Ted Washington / Keith Traylor duo.
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I think the d line got fuller that fat contract. Pressure on qbs make average CBs look good and good look great.
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For me it was easy . Next year both are gone. So this year keep Hicks. If Mack is the centerpiece of our D than its easy. He does better when Hicks is in the game and then add back in Goldman.
I still remember people wanting Fuller to be gone and now they are crying that he is actually gone.
To me its easier to replace a CB cus you get some help in a scheme.
I still remember people wanting Fuller to be gone and now they are crying that he is actually gone.
To me its easier to replace a CB cus you get some help in a scheme.
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