So I'm just gonna come out and say I was wrong on Pace

[dplank]

I wanted him fired, but he has completely redeemed himself in my eyes. His aggression paid off and he made moves that secured exactly what this team needed, and he did so after being a little patient so he didn't have to massively overpay.

We got Fields for 2 firsts. SF got Lance for 3 firsts. I prefer Fields by a good margin. And his ballsy move to turn around and trade up AGAIN when he saw Jenkins slide a bit was effing brilliant IMO. Jenkins is EXACTLY what we needed up front, big strong nasty guy who can actually move people in the run game - our OL is made up of a bunch of nice guys right now we desperately need that edge. Then later he slides down to net a pick back. He worked this draft like a champ.

And, I have noticed and given credit for his last few drafts and noted that he seemed to learn from his early mistakes on White/Trubisky and overvaluing physical attributes over production and tape. I thought when he drafted Roquan that he had learned a lesson, and then he had a nice draft last year and then a grand slam home run this year.

If we had fired Pace as I wanted us to do, we likely don't have either Fields or Jenkins. Whoops, I was definitely overly emotional about the poor showing last year. George's patience has paid off. I'll need some salt for my plate of crow.

[AZ_Bearfan]

It's good to see Pace growing for sure. 2017 Pace panicked and gave up a kings ransom to trade up one spot. 2021 Pace was patient and very lucky.

[IotaNet]

I said this in another thread but we need to remember that both Pace and Nagy came into their jobs as rookies. In any business or on any job, vets trump rookies for a reason — experience. Ozzie Newsome was not a stud GM on day one.

Pace was always a smart guy but the responsibility of the job … sitting in the big chair … has taught him some things the hard way. The good news is that he appears to have absorbed the lessons and put his experience to work. I believe that’s why he didn’t get canned and he appears to have justified ownership’s faith in him.

[edep12]

I said this in another thread but we need to remember that both Pace and Nagy came into their jobs as rookies. In any business or on any job, vets trump rookies for a reason — experience. Ozzie Newsome was not a stud GM on day one.

Ozzie Newsome’s first two picks as Baltimore’s GM were HOF’ers (Johnathan Ogden and Ray Lewis) so, yeah, he was pretty studly from the jump

[EricTighe]

Ole Drill Sargent had a famous saying I use to this day.
"Even a blind, deaf, mute, and butt ass ugly man can get lucky once in a while,"
Hopefully you are right about Pace and Nagy?

[BreadNCircuses]

I wanted him fired, but he has completely redeemed himself in my eyes. His aggression paid off and he made moves that secured exactly what this team needed, and he did so after being a little patient so he didn't have to massively overpay.

We got Fields for 2 firsts. SF got Lance for 3 firsts. I prefer Fields by a good margin. And his ballsy move to turn around and trade up AGAIN when he saw Jenkins slide a bit was effing brilliant IMO. Jenkins is EXACTLY what we needed up front, big strong nasty guy who can actually move people in the run game - our OL is made up of a bunch of nice guys right now we desperately need that edge. Then later he slides down to net a pick back. He worked this draft like a champ.

And, I have noticed and given credit for his last few drafts and noted that he seemed to learn from his early mistakes on White/Trubisky and overvaluing physical attributes over production and tape. I thought when he drafted Roquan that he had learned a lesson, and then he had a nice draft last year and then a grand slam home run this year.

If we had fired Pace as I wanted us to do, we likely don't have either Fields or Jenkins. Whoops, I was definitely overly emotional about the poor showing last year. George's patience has paid off. I'll need some salt for my plate of crow.

I want to give you fair respect for coming to this -- process, growth, and development are big factors in decision-makers, and as tempting as it is to over-weight a single decision or evaluation, we need to be able to look at the overall body of work and development over time. Pace missed on a QB in 2017, but he assembled a pretty strong set of people with a deeper background at QB than he has personally to get the evaluation process fixed for the second (and presumably last chance) shot in the draft. If the stories about Nagy being the point on the QB evaluations in KC in 2017 are true (and given that it comes from Brett Veitch, there's not much reason to disregard the story), and then layer on the rest of the QB-coaching staff, that to me shows growth by augmenting where one is personally weaker. I suspect we see the same or similar model to what the Chiefs used in 2017, with the vet QB (Smith in KC, Dalton here) being starter for most if not all of the season, while the rookie comes up to speed, and then a transition over the next offseason. And then the Bears have reset on another 4-5 year window with a rookie QB contract. To me that's showing solid process growth -- it all comes down to if they hit that QB pick.

[aussiebear99]

I think you're right about Pace growing in the job. Remember he was only 37 (iirc) when he started.

The thing that sticks out to me is that previously with his 1st and 2nd round picks he would often take players who had great measurables, but there tended to be one question or another over their college production:

Trubisky - only 1 year as a starter in college, but great athletic traits (4.6, agile)
Floyd - drafted as a pass rusher but that wasn't really his thing in college
Shaheen - produced in college for 3 yrs, but at a lower level of competition .. but ran in the 4.7s at 280lbs.
White - 1 good year in college only, but great athletic traits (4.35 at 215)

All had a level of projection about them. They were more about ceiling.

Whereas from 2018 onwards that changes; there's more of an emphasis on production, more "football player" than "athlete". (But that's without it being an either/or thing --Roquan Smith is really fast, Kmet had all the measurables you'd want, Fields is a flat-out freak (that 4.44 40 time? Context: He stumbled a little at the start of the run ..). I'm just guessing at how his process changed, but it's probably more about tape too.

Now, that he's got his QB, if he can just start trading down a bit more ..

[thunderspirit]

good stuff

I believe you're sincere here, @dplank.

For whatever it's worth, I give Pace a bit of a pass for 2015 because, by and large, he was still using Phil Emery's staff.

But he gets full demerits for 2016's obsession with Floyd and (in my eyes) for not drafting Dak Prescott with one of three 4th round picks before he went to Dallas, and in 2017 for a bad Day 1 (I "got" the Trubisky swing for the fences, but Watson) and an awful Day 2 (Adam Shaheen).

At the same time, 2016 generated three starters and 2017 two and a half (Trubisky as the half).
Three starters from 2018 was good.
One starter from 2019 was not.
Three starters from 2020 was good.

I don't agree with his Day 1 approach very often (with 2021 a colossal exception), but he's been pretty solid drafting.

His free agent acquisitions are more of a mixed bag, but it's free agency, so honestly that's not a shock. His practice of patching holes short-term via free agency is a little maddening, but more effective than I thought it would be when he first started it in 2017 (Quinten Demps, Prince Amukamara, Kendall Wright), and the occasional resigned gem from those one-year contracts seems to make the gamble worthwhile.

He ain't perfect by any stretch, I acknowledge that. But he ain't bad.

[alexwilkins]

I've never called for his job, but I think mixed bag is pretty dead on. Getting some studs late while whiffing first rounders can/should only get you so far. This draft is blowing my mind, tho.

Tbh, I don't really know what to make of his titles in New Orleans, but I know by the time he became "Director of professional scouting" in 2007, they already got Brees and made it to an NFC title game.(Against the Bears ironically). So he never HAD to draft a QB until he got here. Mitch didn't work out. Fields is a very different vibe.

[The Marshall Plan]

I wanted him fired, but he has completely redeemed himself in my eyes. His aggression paid off and he made moves that secured exactly what this team needed, and he did so after being a little patient so he didn't have to massively overpay.

We got Fields for 2 firsts. SF got Lance for 3 firsts. I prefer Fields by a good margin. And his ballsy move to turn around and trade up AGAIN when he saw Jenkins slide a bit was effing brilliant IMO. Jenkins is EXACTLY what we needed up front, big strong nasty guy who can actually move people in the run game - our OL is made up of a bunch of nice guys right now we desperately need that edge. Then later he slides down to net a pick back. He worked this draft like a champ.

And, I have noticed and given credit for his last few drafts and noted that he seemed to learn from his early mistakes on White/Trubisky and overvaluing physical attributes over production and tape. I thought when he drafted Roquan that he had learned a lesson, and then he had a nice draft last year and then a grand slam home run this year.

If we had fired Pace as I wanted us to do, we likely don't have either Fields or Jenkins. Whoops, I was definitely overly emotional about the poor showing last year. George's patience has paid off. I'll need some salt for my plate of crow.

I am euphoric over this draft and Fields is the player that has me excited the most since I can last remember. This is way more exciting than the Mack trade.

Pace does certainly deserve respect and a big time compliment for this draft. Not just the players, but the balls it took to trade for them.

That being said, I still don't like Pace and Nagy. I want to see results. When I see results I will change my mind. But it's going to take a lot more than Fields and Jenkins to erase the last six years.

I'm judging Pace and Nagy based on wins in the playoffs. That's the leadership team we need in there. Mediocrity and fluke based playoff appearances isn't good enough.

[malk]

*small voice* No one from this draft has played a snap yet. *hides*

Honestly, I still think Pace can't manage the cap for shit and that will ultimately be his (our) downfall but we've got a hell of a prospect to be excited about at QB and some hope that the line will improve so I'm absolutely going to get excited for the future!

[jamus34]

*small voice* No one from this draft has played a snap yet. *hides*

Honestly, I still think Pace can't manage the cap for shit and that will ultimately be his (our) downfall but we've got a hell of a prospect to be excited about at QB and some hope that the line will improve so I'm absolutely going to get excited for the future!

A slight nod in Pace's defense regarding the cap is COVID kind of screwed things for 2021. I mean we were going to be in a bad place no matter what; and considering there was no realistic way we were SB contenders last year to have the cap hits we have, but it did not help matters.

My concern is the bears flat out suck developing QB's. We pretty much always have. You go back through the list and Orton was probably the best talent we developed with regard to looking like a QB. We did Mitch no favors and once the book was out on Grossman (IE rush him constantly) he was done. After that you gotta go all the way back to McMahon and Harbaugh; neither of whom are HOF's.

Anyway, my $.02.

[Arkansasbear]

Well it looks like Denver was trying to charge a huge premium in a trade and he didn't fold. So that's a good thing.

https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-b ... -by-bears/

[AZ_Bearfan]

Well played by Pace. And very lucky.

[The Cooler King]

Well played by Pace. And very lucky.

A little natural luck. And a little luck he created himself. Just a beauty.

I think this is a funny thread though. Personally no single draft could move me. I was and still am something of a Pace moderate. There's good and bad and this draft looks like Pace at his best (obvious we need real snaps). I'm okay with the Pave/Nagy duo for now. My limit on Pace will probably continue to be letting him make another HC hire. But I wouldn't mnd a little extension to that duo to ensure they get at least Fields first 3 years covered. At that point, re-evaluate.

[Artbest]

The irony here is that Fields is physically far superior to Mitch - much faster, quicker, stronger arm, more sturdy build, far more accurate downfield

I wanted him fired, but he has completely redeemed himself in my eyes. His aggression paid off and he made moves that secured exactly what this team needed, and he did so after being a little patient so he didn't have to massively overpay.

We got Fields for 2 firsts. SF got Lance for 3 firsts. I prefer Fields by a good margin. And his ballsy move to turn around and trade up AGAIN when he saw Jenkins slide a bit was effing brilliant IMO. Jenkins is EXACTLY what we needed up front, big strong nasty guy who can actually move people in the run game - our OL is made up of a bunch of nice guys right now we desperately need that edge. Then later he slides down to net a pick back. He worked this draft like a champ.

And, I have noticed and given credit for his last few drafts and noted that he seemed to learn from his early mistakes on White/Trubisky and overvaluing physical attributes over production and tape. I thought when he drafted Roquan that he had learned a lesson, and then he had a nice draft last year and then a grand slam home run this year.

If we had fired Pace as I wanted us to do, we likely don't have either Fields or Jenkins. Whoops, I was definitely overly emotional about the poor showing last year. George's patience has paid off. I'll need some salt for my plate of crow.

[Mikefive]

I think there's some element of luck that comes into this. There were indications that Pace needed to trade up in 2017. And in that case, his aggressive style worked against him. What if he sat tight and had to settle for Mahomes or Watson? Had Trubisky fell to 3, it wouldn't have been quite as horrifying. We'll never know about any of those outcomes, but as it turned out, taking the wrong guy was undeniably inflamed by the trade up.

With Fields, Pace benefitted from the epilepsy news or whatever it was that caused Fields to drop. Moving up is what Pace likes to do and he just did what he does when he has a guy on the board he really wants. This move started with Pace being fortunate.

Being the aggressive draft guy can be a blessing and a curse as we all have seen with Pace. This year in R1, we got to see it seemingly at it's best. Pace is who he is. It's not like anything really changed here.

[Moriarty]

I wanted him fired, but he has completely redeemed himself in my eyes. His aggression paid off and he made moves that secured exactly what this team needed, and he did so after being a little patient so he didn't have to massively overpay.

We got Fields for 2 firsts. SF got Lance for 3 firsts. I prefer Fields by a good margin. And his ballsy move to turn around and trade up AGAIN when he saw Jenkins slide a bit was effing brilliant IMO. Jenkins is EXACTLY what we needed up front, big strong nasty guy who can actually move people in the run game - our OL is made up of a bunch of nice guys right now we desperately need that edge. Then later he slides down to net a pick back. He worked this draft like a champ.

And, I have noticed and given credit for his last few drafts and noted that he seemed to learn from his early mistakes on White/Trubisky and overvaluing physical attributes over production and tape. I thought when he drafted Roquan that he had learned a lesson, and then he had a nice draft last year and then a grand slam home run this year.

If we had fired Pace as I wanted us to do, we likely don't have either Fields or Jenkins. Whoops, I was definitely overly emotional about the poor showing last year. George's patience has paid off. I'll need some salt for my plate of crow.

Easy, big fella.
You're swinging so hard to extremes you're making Sinead O'Connor look emotionally stable.

This was a draft that gives Bears fans plenty to be excited and hopeful about.

But you don't watch 1 or 2 draft picks and then magically wipe away a 6 year body of work, proclaiming him Redeemed of all Sin and now prepared for Heavenly Eternity.

He's the same guy he's always been. He traded up aggressively before this year and he traded up aggressively this year. He's always filled all the roster holes before the draft with cheap 1 yr stopgaps and this year he filled all the roster holes before the draft with cheap 1 yr stopgaps.
There's no difference in his MO at all.

The only thing that's changed is that he got a top QB prospect, after having the exceptional good fortune of him falling for unclear and dubious reasons.

[dplank]

Easy, big fella.
You're swinging so hard to extremes you're making Sinead O'Connor look emotionally stable.

That literally made me laugh out loud, well played

[IE]

The sequence of events and NON-events that fell perfectly into place to enable the Bears to get Fields (and then Jenkins!) is one of the most remarkable things I've ever seen. If there were EVER evidence of league-wide collusion to create parity and keep the Bears relevant... that was it. Just look at the teams that cooperated through bad decision-making and inaction. It is like Obi Wan visited half the league with a "this is not the QB you're looking for" mind trick.

- Niners (multiple dumb decisions)
- Falcons (mistake to not draft Ryan's replacement)
- Dolphins (banking on Tua isn't extreme, but...)
- Lions (banking on Goff?)
- Broncos (thanks, Vic, for believing it is still a defensive league. Teddy will be awesome for you)
- Panthers (you're right, Darnold is your future)
- Eagles (no offense, Jalen, but...)
- Cowboys (thank you for trading IN DIVISION)
- Giants (you believe that much in Danny Dimes? and trading down for the first time ever?)
- Patriots (not trading up because they preferred the wrong guy)
- WFT (everyone loves Fitz, but...)
- Vikings (for believing Pace couldn't pull it off, even though it has come out they COVETED Fields)
- Saints (for believing in Winston and Hill)

[dplank]

The sequence of events and NON-events that fell perfectly into place to enable the Bears to get Fields (and then Jenkins!) is one of the most remarkable things I've ever seen. If there were EVER evidence of league-wide collusion to create parity and keep the Bears relevant... that was it. Just look at the teams that cooperated through bad decision-making and inaction. It is like Obi Wan visited half the league with a "this is not the QB you're looking for" mind trick.

- Niners (multiple dumb decisions)
- Falcons (mistake to not draft Ryan's replacement)
- Dolphins (banking on Tua isn't extreme, but...)
- Lions (banking on Goff?)
- Broncos (thanks, Vic, for believing it is still a defensive league. Teddy will be awesome for you)
- Panthers (you're right, Darnold is your future)
- Eagles (no offense, Jalen, but...)
- Cowboys (thank you for trading IN DIVISION)
- Giants (you believe that much in Danny Dimes? and trading down for the first time ever?)
- Patriots (not trading up because they preferred the wrong guy)
- WFT (everyone loves Fitz, but...)
- Vikings (for believing Pace couldn't pull it off, even though it has come out they COVETED Fields)
- Saints (for believing in Winston and Hill)

I think the Jets took the wrong guy as well honestly. Kid looks like he's 6 years old, Fields looks like an NFL player and played at a top program against top talent and in the biggest of games. Watsonesque in his profile IMO. The more I've dug in on the guy the more excited I've gotten about him - I didn't spend much time pre draft cause I didn't ever think we'd have a shot at him.

[IE]

Agreed. Let's add Jets.

That list... is just astonishing. It quite literally needed to ALL happen.

I've seen a couple of amazing runs at the craps table. Right there Pace just rolled for 2 hours without crapping.

[The Marshall Plan]

@IE @dplank

Of all those picks, the Falcons was the worst. They were sitting right there to get a QB.

QBs have fallen before (like Rodgers), but when I come down from my Excited Delirium state about the draft I think about why did all the other GMs up there pass on Fields and then Goober Pace trades up for him?

I think Soldier Fields is the real deal. Let’s see.

[EricTighe]

Pace got lucky and jumped. Gotta give him all the credit in the world to jump when he did. Great job Pace.

Sometimes it is better to be lucky than good.

[IE]

@IE @dplank

Of all those picks, the Falcons was the worst. They were sitting right there to get a QB.

QBs have fallen before (like Rodgers), but when I come down from my Excited Delirium state about the draft I think about why did all the other GMs up there pass on Fields and then Goober Pace trades up for him?

I think Soldier Fields is the real deal. Let’s see.

The good part is, without taking a snap he's already the best Bear QB to ever wear the uniform. And that's the floor.

[The Cooler King]

The sequence of events and NON-events that fell perfectly into place to enable the Bears to get Fields (and then Jenkins!) is one of the most remarkable things I've ever seen. If there were EVER evidence of league-wide collusion to create parity and keep the Bears relevant... that was it. Just look at the teams that cooperated through bad decision-making and inaction. It is like Obi Wan visited half the league with a "this is not the QB you're looking for" mind trick.

- Niners (multiple dumb decisions)
- Falcons (mistake to not draft Ryan's replacement)
- Dolphins (banking on Tua isn't extreme, but...)
- Lions (banking on Goff?)
- Broncos (thanks, Vic, for believing it is still a defensive league. Teddy will be awesome for you)
- Panthers (you're right, Darnold is your future)
- Eagles (no offense, Jalen, but...)
- Cowboys (thank you for trading IN DIVISION)
- Giants (you believe that much in Danny Dimes? and trading down for the first time ever?)
- Patriots (not trading up because they preferred the wrong guy)
- WFT (everyone loves Fitz, but...)
- Vikings (for believing Pace couldn't pull it off, even though it has come out they COVETED Fields)
- Saints (for believing in Winston and Hill)

I think the Jets took the wrong guy as well honestly. Kid looks like he's 6 years old, Fields looks like an NFL player and played at a top program against top talent and in the biggest of games. Watsonesque in his profile IMO. The more I've dug in on the guy the more excited I've gotten about him - I didn't spend much time pre draft cause I didn't ever think we'd have a shot at him.

Am I wrong to think the Wilson love mostly amounts to "look how great he is off script, he's the next Mahomes!"?

[HurricaneBear]

The sequence of events and NON-events that fell perfectly into place to enable the Bears to get Fields (and then Jenkins!) is one of the most remarkable things I've ever seen. If there were EVER evidence of league-wide collusion to create parity and keep the Bears relevant... that was it. Just look at the teams that cooperated through bad decision-making and inaction. It is like Obi Wan visited half the league with a "this is not the QB you're looking for" mind trick.

- Niners (multiple dumb decisions)
- Falcons (mistake to not draft Ryan's replacement)
- Dolphins (banking on Tua isn't extreme, but...)
- Lions (banking on Goff?)
- Broncos (thanks, Vic, for believing it is still a defensive league. Teddy will be awesome for you)
- Panthers (you're right, Darnold is your future)
- Eagles (no offense, Jalen, but...)
- Cowboys (thank you for trading IN DIVISION)
- Giants (you believe that much in Danny Dimes? and trading down for the first time ever?)
- Patriots (not trading up because they preferred the wrong guy)
- WFT (everyone loves Fitz, but...)
- Vikings (for believing Pace couldn't pull it off, even though it has come out they COVETED Fields)
- Saints (for believing in Winston and Hill)

I think the Jets took the wrong guy as well honestly. Kid looks like he's 6 years old, Fields looks like an NFL player and played at a top program against top talent and in the biggest of games. Watsonesque in his profile IMO. The more I've dug in on the guy the more excited I've gotten about him - I didn't spend much time pre draft cause I didn't ever think we'd have a shot at him.

Same for me. I'm honestly still waiting to wake up and realize its a dream. I put alot into the eye test and to me Fields passes the eye test more than any QB in this class, including Trevor Lawrence.

[EricTighe]

Same for me. I'm honestly still waiting to wake up and realize it's a dream. I put alot into the eye test and to me Fields passes the eye test more than any QB in this class, including Trevor Lawrence.

Love your optimism. But in all the years I have been doing this I have never seen the likes of Trevor Lawrence.
Then again Fields has been right there with him every step of the way. Fields weren't only the second best QB in this draft but since his senior year in High school, he has been projected as the second best player in this draft period.

Both of these kids have been under the scrutiny of the NFL evaluators since their Highschool days. Both have exceeded what they thought of them then. Until recently both were the top picks in this draft until some very smart people starting overthinking it.

My theory is this. Edison found out how not built a lightbulb 1000 times.
The Bears figured out how not to draft a QB at least 50 times. All it takes is getting it right once.

[thunderspirit]

Am I wrong to think the Wilson love mostly amounts to "look how great he is off script, he's the next Mahomes!"?

That's a big part of it, yeah.
And if they're right, good for them.

I have doubts they are, but WTF do I know?

[The Cooler King]

Am I wrong to think the Wilson love mostly amounts to "look how great he is off script, he's the next Mahomes!"?

That's a big part of it, yeah.
And if they're right, good for them.

I have doubts they are, but WTF do I know?

Oh I'm most certainly just some internet guy. But fads are fascinating. Chasing unicorns is tough though, that's for sure.