Spit my coffee out on that one!
Excited Delirium Over Fields
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- Burl
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I did not consider Fields much of a possibility so didn’t spend much time watching him in college, really. I did watch the Natl. Championship game vs. Bama and he carried that team as far as it would go. It was pretty impressive even though they couldn’t ultimately keep up.
His highlights, I see great deep ball accuracy, back shoulder balls on time, not too flat a trajectory (suggests proper touch), nails seam/slant routes on time. Obviously he can run and has power to boot.
Honestly, like Rich, I wanted Jones based on where we were picking but a lot of that was just the bias of “ho-hum another Ohio state QB”
Now I’m viewing through the bias of a Bears fan, so who knows? He seems to have a pretty high floor to my eye.
His highlights, I see great deep ball accuracy, back shoulder balls on time, not too flat a trajectory (suggests proper touch), nails seam/slant routes on time. Obviously he can run and has power to boot.
Honestly, like Rich, I wanted Jones based on where we were picking but a lot of that was just the bias of “ho-hum another Ohio state QB”
Now I’m viewing through the bias of a Bears fan, so who knows? He seems to have a pretty high floor to my eye.
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I liked the OT pick - and I liked the idea of trading up for a QB when a couple slid (* Though maybe, just maybe there was a reason he slid?)
I tend to hammer bad opinions (Press Conferences matter) or pure homerism (Arob should be a perennial 1500 Yard guy). - Otherwise I am a homer myself and tend to see the bright side (Not the insane side)
But like we do know that Rutgers was bad right?
If Fields is going to use the Running as a side thing - Great - If its the main course its a problem
I also absolutely think the two hardest QB traits to fix: Accuracy and Speeding Up Progressions (**)
(**) Especially this one - and that is the main knock on Fields (except on this Board where his Pro Day answered all questions somehow)
But to answer more positive things: It makes the Dalton signing look better AND it is a Big Swing
I can tone it down if you'd like - but I think questions remain despite people scouting from the Pressers
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Yep - I'll eventually talk myself into him - just not there yetBurl wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 12:15 pm I did not consider Fields much of a possibility so didn’t spend much time watching him in college, really. I did watch the Natl. Championship game vs. Bama and he carried that team as far as it would go. It was pretty impressive even though they couldn’t ultimately keep up.
His highlights, I see great deep ball accuracy, back shoulder balls on time, not too flat a trajectory (suggests proper touch), nails seam/slant routes on time. Obviously he can run and has power to boot.
Honestly, like Rich, I wanted Jones based on where we were picking but a lot of that was just the bias of “ho-hum another Ohio state QB”
Now I’m viewing through the bias of a Bears fan, so who knows? He seems to have a pretty high floor to my eye.
Heck - I hated the Andy Dalton signing and now I've talked myself into it two ways already (A) He was better than Foles/Mitch and now B) He can be a perfect bridge QB and not just the has a pulse kind (which is fine if you suck anyway)
I will get there people! Just don't cite his Pro Day, his Press Conference (The ONLY WAY TO SCOUT!), and Rutgers as why
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Rich you can now add in his rookie mini-camp. Hopefully that will push you over the edge (I mean that in a good way, not like truly getting pushed over a ledge and falling to your death ).RichH55 wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 3:00 pmYep - I'll eventually talk myself into him - just not there yetBurl wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 12:15 pm I did not consider Fields much of a possibility so didn’t spend much time watching him in college, really. I did watch the Natl. Championship game vs. Bama and he carried that team as far as it would go. It was pretty impressive even though they couldn’t ultimately keep up.
His highlights, I see great deep ball accuracy, back shoulder balls on time, not too flat a trajectory (suggests proper touch), nails seam/slant routes on time. Obviously he can run and has power to boot.
Honestly, like Rich, I wanted Jones based on where we were picking but a lot of that was just the bias of “ho-hum another Ohio state QB”
Now I’m viewing through the bias of a Bears fan, so who knows? He seems to have a pretty high floor to my eye.
Heck - I hated the Andy Dalton signing and now I've talked myself into it two ways already (A) He was better than Foles/Mitch and now B) He can be a perfect bridge QB and not just the has a pulse kind (which is fine if you suck anyway)
I will get there people! Just don't cite his Pro Day, his Press Conference (The ONLY WAY TO SCOUT!), and Rutgers as why
I get the viewpoint that guys your not high on get drafted and then you have to talk yourself into liking them. This was my downfall with Mitch. I wasn't big on him going into the draft and never understood all the hype. After "he was ours" I broke down everything I could find on him and since I was viewing it the my "Bears goggles" on I decided we made the best choice.
With Fields i wanted nothing to do with him early on and didn't do much homework on him, because after all he was going to be gone way before we could move up to get him, much less before our pick.
But then talked started about him sliding and maybe being in range for us. No freaking way did I want that to happen, he was going to doom the team if we got him. So I started really looking at everything I could find and I did so with an eye to justify why we SHOULDN'T take him.
Even with that prejudice view, I concluded he was who we needed. The guy is the real deal. He and Lawrence are basically equal to me. Their play on the field is equally amazing. Lawrence was able to get the starting gig as a freshman vs. Fields having to transfer to a different school. But head to head Fields always seem to play better.
I haven't been as big of a fan of a player coming into the draft since Urlacher (and Jason Peters).
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Press Conferences are similar to my children telling me about what they saw on you tube.
Sure they are generally pointless, and get annoying. "Sure some you tube person opened a toy, great." To get the dribble to end I generally ask if their room is cleaned. Because the conversation is pointless.
Every once in a while they drop some knowledge. Its 1 out of a million, and its fleeting, but its there.
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This is a pretty fair takemmmc_35 wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 4:52 pmPress Conferences are similar to my children telling me about what they saw on you tube.
Sure they are generally pointless, and get annoying. "Sure some you tube person opened a toy, great." To get the dribble to end I generally ask if their room is cleaned. Because the conversation is pointless.
Every once in a while they drop some knowledge. Its 1 out of a million, and its fleeting, but its there.
Unfortunately its akin to the fact the world will end - True. Sports Fans are filled with false prophets though
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I look at that like an Old Aaron Rowand play (Sox fan here)
Awesome - don't even do that again
Also - Trey Sermon and that OL were very good folks
Kiper had 2 Ohio State WR on this initial Big Board too for 2022
I know we all think Rutgers is great and all - but maybe just maybe this tOSU team had some real talent?
Awesome - don't even do that again
Also - Trey Sermon and that OL were very good folks
Kiper had 2 Ohio State WR on this initial Big Board too for 2022
I know we all think Rutgers is great and all - but maybe just maybe this tOSU team had some real talent?
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His WR’s were amazing but his offensive line was very unimpressive at pass blocking (and snapping in one game). Some of that is because of Covid protocols but that line got beaten badly by pass rushers multiple times in basically every game.RichH55 wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 2:29 pm I look at that like an Old Aaron Rowand play (Sox fan here)
Awesome - don't even do that again
Also - Trey Sermon and that OL were very good folks
Kiper had 2 Ohio State WR on this initial Big Board too for 2022
I know we all think Rutgers is great and all - but maybe just maybe this tOSU team had some real talent?
I’d be ecstatic to get either Olave or Wilson and have no interest in anyone on that line after watching all of Fields’ passing snaps.
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I think whether this happens comes down to the whole belief that a newly drafted QB needs to be "seasoned" for at least a year before seeing the field.
I used to be a believer of this just based on precedent but since it has come up so much in discussions about Fields I've been thinking about it a lot and I'm starting to lean the other way.
The way I'm starting to see it is, in school you are always told you need to find the way *you* learn and adapt your studying habits to that. I believe how it went was there are three types of learners:
1. Listeners - Someone tells them "If this happens, throw to X", they listen, remember it, and do it
2. Seers - They watch someone throw to X when something happens, remember it, and do it
3. Doers - They need to be put in a situation where something happens and they have to throw to X , remember it, and then can do it in a live situation
This is probably a gross over-simplification of the process, and I believe you can also be a bit of all 3, but I can see QBs who are mainly Type 1 or 2 learners growing in ability by sitting on the bench and taking mental reps. But if a QB is mostly a Type 3 learner, most of their growth is going to come through reps and on the field, so sitting on the bench is not going to do much if anything for them.
No idea where Fields falls in this but he sure does seem to love his playbook.
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I heard that argument on draft day when it came to Fields being an Ohio State QB. But then again, when it comes down to it, it’s not like Bama’s QBs have exactly fared much better.
So that argument didn’t exactly ring true with me.
With that said, I share the attitude of you, Rich, and mmc. I’ve seen good to great college talent never make it in this league - especially at QB.
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Great post. I’ve heard coaches explain this same thing but as a hierarchy: meaning some guys are able to learn Type 1, others can’t and need Type 2. Some can learn as Type 2, others can’t and need Type 3. Everyone learns at type 3 (as best as they are capable of learning). The smartest, most gifted guys can learn at Type 1 was how he explained it but most guys need Type 3. Those that need Type 3 get little value at Type 2 and even less at Type 1. Their learning BEGINS at type 3.Xee wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 9:53 pmI think whether this happens comes down to the whole belief that a newly drafted QB needs to be "seasoned" for at least a year before seeing the field.
I used to be a believer of this just based on precedent but since it has come up so much in discussions about Fields I've been thinking about it a lot and I'm starting to lean the other way.
The way I'm starting to see it is, in school you are always told you need to find the way *you* learn and adapt your studying habits to that. I believe how it went was there are three types of learners:
1. Listeners - Someone tells them "If this happens, throw to X", they listen, remember it, and do it
2. Seers - They watch someone throw to X when something happens, remember it, and do it
3. Doers - They need to be put in a situation where something happens and they have to throw to X , remember it, and then can do it in a live situation
This is probably a gross over-simplification of the process, and I believe you can also be a bit of all 3, but I can see QBs who are mainly Type 1 or 2 learners growing in ability by sitting on the bench and taking mental reps. But if a QB is mostly a Type 3 learner, most of their growth is going to come through reps and on the field, so sitting on the bench is not going to do much if anything for them.
No idea where Fields falls in this but he sure does seem to love his playbook.
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i dont believe at all that fields could "win" the starting job. i guess there's a reality where dalton could lose it, but he would have to look so unbelievably bad in both camp and the preseason for that to happen, and i just dont see that happening.
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I've gone full homer and think that Fields should get all the #1 reps and get him as ready as possible for Week 1. He's our future, let's get to it. It's what Jacksonville will do. It's what NY will do. I'd do the same, I don't want to waste a year of his rookie contract status and want to accelerate his development.RustinFields wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:28 am i dont believe at all that fields could "win" the starting job. i guess there's a reality where dalton could lose it, but he would have to look so unbelievably bad in both camp and the preseason for that to happen, and i just dont see that happening.
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Yep. You start Fields. And you start Jenkins at LT if that's why you got him.dplank wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:42 amI've gone full homer and think that Fields should get all the #1 reps and get him as ready as possible for Week 1. He's our future, let's get to it. It's what Jacksonville will do. It's what NY will do. I'd do the same, I don't want to waste a year of his rookie contract status and want to accelerate his development.RustinFields wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:28 am i dont believe at all that fields could "win" the starting job. i guess there's a reality where dalton could lose it, but he would have to look so unbelievably bad in both camp and the preseason for that to happen, and i just dont see that happening.
Not doing that is like the folks at work who don't think it is safe to have a meeting with out a pre-meeting and an offline huddle to prep for the premeeting.
Edit: IF they don't have the balls to do what they should do, then I want to see Fields featured in packages from Week 1, and ramped up.
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What about waiting for the new line to prove itself? Or is that not a concern?IE wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 10:25 amYep. You start Fields. And you start Jenkins at LT if that's why you got him.dplank wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:42 am
I've gone full homer and think that Fields should get all the #1 reps and get him as ready as possible for Week 1. He's our future, let's get to it. It's what Jacksonville will do. It's what NY will do. I'd do the same, I don't want to waste a year of his rookie contract status and want to accelerate his development.
Not doing that is like the folks at work who don't think it is safe to have a meeting with out a pre-meeting and an offline huddle to prep for the premeeting.
Edit: IF they don't have the balls to do what they should do, then I want to see Fields featured in packages from Week 1, and ramped up.
I’m not trying to be difficult here. Just that we’ve got The Guy now.
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There's always going to be a reason why waiting is more prudent. There will always be examples of why things are just too risky, and Eeyore will always make sure we know why it will never work.The Marshall Plan wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 10:31 amWhat about waiting for the new line to prove itself? Or is that not a concern?IE wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 10:25 am
Yep. You start Fields. And you start Jenkins at LT if that's why you got him.
Not doing that is like the folks at work who don't think it is safe to have a meeting with out a pre-meeting and an offline huddle to prep for the premeeting.
Edit: IF they don't have the balls to do what they should do, then I want to see Fields featured in packages from Week 1, and ramped up.
I’m not trying to be difficult here. Just that we’ve got The Guy now.
But the Oline has definitely already been upgraded... late last year with some reconfiguration and an emerging player, and then even more now with a 1st round talent OT that everyone wanted & is kick-ass plus a returning fixture in Daniels that is at the very least quite serviceable. So... to answer your question, the Oline has been addressed enough. It's time to rock and roll.
There is no question that some may question each point I made. And honestly there are just some people who will never be satisfied. They'll sit on their plastic-covered couch for 30 years and feel like they've really made the prudent decision. Me? Use the couch.
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you can use this reasoning to excuse literally any bad decision/bad behavior.
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this is a very good thread and an interesting read with some intelligent well thought out opinions being bantered back and forth in a calm and positive manner
see that? Fields has even had an impact on us with the talent and hope he is providing
there are good arguments to be made for starting Fields week 1 and equally intelligent arguments being made as to why he should wait a bit ... maybe not the whole year, but at least the first 6 weeks or so
why 6 weeks? I am guessing that is the time it will take our new and improved offensive line, which may well have 2 rookie tackles as part of it, to gel into a unit and really get it ... and during that time, if there are going to be glitches where a QB will end up with some punishment, I'd rather it be Dalton absorbing the offensive line's learning curve ... now I have nothing against Dalton and am not wishing harm upon him, but he is not the future of the franchise, merely a 1 year bridge ... so get the offensive bugs worked out so the team is comfortable and executing properly, then put Fields in
think of it this way ... you have a car you are rescuing ... so you have to tear it down, see which parts can be useful and which need to be replaced ... you have a nice solid engine that you can work with and be happy with for now ... so you do all of your work, and get the car road worthy ... give it a nice new paint job and you are now proud to have it ... your friends tell you what a nice job you did, some even offer to buy it, but no, this is your baby that you built ... and now that you know it is solid, functional and will be your reliable vehicle, THEN you upgrade that solid engine to a high performance version ... and now your vehicle is complete
Dalton is our solid engine ... Fields is our upgrade ... so we need to make sure the rest of the vehicle is ready to go before upgrading the engine
see that? Fields has even had an impact on us with the talent and hope he is providing
there are good arguments to be made for starting Fields week 1 and equally intelligent arguments being made as to why he should wait a bit ... maybe not the whole year, but at least the first 6 weeks or so
why 6 weeks? I am guessing that is the time it will take our new and improved offensive line, which may well have 2 rookie tackles as part of it, to gel into a unit and really get it ... and during that time, if there are going to be glitches where a QB will end up with some punishment, I'd rather it be Dalton absorbing the offensive line's learning curve ... now I have nothing against Dalton and am not wishing harm upon him, but he is not the future of the franchise, merely a 1 year bridge ... so get the offensive bugs worked out so the team is comfortable and executing properly, then put Fields in
think of it this way ... you have a car you are rescuing ... so you have to tear it down, see which parts can be useful and which need to be replaced ... you have a nice solid engine that you can work with and be happy with for now ... so you do all of your work, and get the car road worthy ... give it a nice new paint job and you are now proud to have it ... your friends tell you what a nice job you did, some even offer to buy it, but no, this is your baby that you built ... and now that you know it is solid, functional and will be your reliable vehicle, THEN you upgrade that solid engine to a high performance version ... and now your vehicle is complete
Dalton is our solid engine ... Fields is our upgrade ... so we need to make sure the rest of the vehicle is ready to go before upgrading the engine
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Hey, if the line sucks, Dalton may not even make it out of week 1. Would we go Foles as next man up?
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I've sort of come off of my stance of not wanting Fields to see any action this season. I do think Dalton should start the season though.
Give Dalton 6 weeks and see where we are. If the Bears are struggling with Dalton, go to Fields. Packers @ Bears in week 6 feels like a good time to debut Fields if Dalton is struggling.
Give Dalton 6 weeks and see where we are. If the Bears are struggling with Dalton, go to Fields. Packers @ Bears in week 6 feels like a good time to debut Fields if Dalton is struggling.
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I think you almost have to start Dalton thanks to the QB1 tweet. But that can mean week 1 only. I'm just wondering if Aaron Donald suplexes Andy at the 50 yard line and removes him from the game, would it be Fields as the replacement, even in week 1?
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Bring on the Justin Fields era IMO. Our window with a great D is closing fast, I see a Rapesburger rookie Super Bowl coming if this D reverts to 2018. Fields would be an instant legend.
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Dplank - that can come in Week 8 though
Put him in the best position to succeed - if that correlates with competing this year - Great
If not - so be it - Dalton should be better than what we had last year
But Fields development should absolutely be paramount
Put him in the best position to succeed - if that correlates with competing this year - Great
If not - so be it - Dalton should be better than what we had last year
But Fields development should absolutely be paramount
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I’m firmly of the opinion that playing him is what’s best for his development.
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TheWorldBreaker wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 10:44 amHis WR’s were amazing but his offensive line was very unimpressive at pass blocking (and snapping in one game). Some of that is because of Covid protocols but that line got beaten badly by pass rushers multiple times in basically every game.RichH55 wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 2:29 pm I look at that like an Old Aaron Rowand play (Sox fan here)
Awesome - don't even do that again
Also - Trey Sermon and that OL were very good folks
Kiper had 2 Ohio State WR on this initial Big Board too for 2022
I know we all think Rutgers is great and all - but maybe just maybe this tOSU team had some real talent?
I’d be ecstatic to get either Olave or Wilson and have no interest in anyone on that line after watching all of Fields’ passing snaps.
Two of their Interior OL were drafted in the 2nd and 3rd Rounds respectively this year, the TE was drafted too - AND the Left Tackle is projected to be a relatively high pick
The longer you hold the ball - the better the pass rush will always look IMHO
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Gotcha - I think we disagree there
I tend to think sitting is helpful for every Rookie QB for at least some time : Brady, Maholmes, and Rodgers all sat
If the new LT is the goods from Day 1 - that would help mitigate my concern - but I am not certain of that either
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LOL
Brady was a low round weakling project, and was closer to Kyle Orton as an unexpected starter due to injury than what later became Tom Brady. He grew up on the field - not watching. Mahomes? They'd probably have 2 rings now if he had that extra year they wasted of a GOAT... what a waste. Rodgers? Same thing - Green Bay may have cost themselves a ring by sacrificing years of another GOAT's youth behind a much lesser player. He didn't learn a single thing from that redneck.
Brady was a low round weakling project, and was closer to Kyle Orton as an unexpected starter due to injury than what later became Tom Brady. He grew up on the field - not watching. Mahomes? They'd probably have 2 rings now if he had that extra year they wasted of a GOAT... what a waste. Rodgers? Same thing - Green Bay may have cost themselves a ring by sacrificing years of another GOAT's youth behind a much lesser player. He didn't learn a single thing from that redneck.
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