Excited Delirium Over Fields

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IE
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Atkins&Rebel wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:22 am
IE wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:58 am Plank - you were Olineman, right? In your experience, how can the quarterback impact the play of the Oline? Of course anyone else with significant Oline experience can chime in too (I don't think that includes high school....lol).

Getting right to the point, I've said a few times that I believe the Oline could actually perform better when Fields gets in the game. The thinking is his athleticism will buy them *just a little* more time protecting him, and his arm and legs will help keep the D more honest, and then on top of that the simple emotional rush and excitement over "getting on with the future - an expected bright future" could have a real impact on their intensity, focus, and such.

Am I wrong? The reason I'm asking is because several have mentioned "Oline showing readiness" as an entrance criteria for Fields, and I see it as potentially a bit the opposite.
As an O lineman I can say the the QB can do a lot to hurt or help the O line
-he can use a different cadence and not tell the O line beforehand (not go on a different hut, but vary the way he says hut, like a hard count)
-he can roll into a blocked D lineman and get sacked because he was stupid
-he can call the wrong protection at the line and make the O line look bad
-he can fail to recognize that D lineman X is eating O lineman Y's lunch and not adjust by stepping up away from pressure or trying to get rid of the ball on time/early
-This one is hard because its the O line's job to block. But when there is a simple overmatch, the QB should adjust where he sets up and realize that there is a violent expiration time on every play.
-He can simply hold the ball too long. I touched on this above, but blocking is like covering for DB's. Given enough time, Coverage and blocking will break down.
-On running plays, he can simply pick the wrong hole. Defenses will stack at certain points, and the QB needs to recognize that and adjust the run to the right spot.
Yep - understand all the ways that a QB can potentially undermine the Oline (or the offense's success). To me, that comes down to "readiness"... those are the things that can't surface too much or everyone looks bad.

I'm looking for a different angle, and to clarify what I was meaning I'll say "a change in quarterback" - can a change in quarterback actually inspire or enable an Oline to play BETTER? Let's say all the things you mentioned are pretty much equal - no "operational mistakes" differences, and the major difference being the guy that is coming in may be able to give them an extra half second and complete more difficult throws and also be more of an athletic threat that does keep the D more on their heels. Could an Oline legitimately play better because of that, and could believing in a potential higher level of success inspire them to play better/harder? I'm thinking they're human and like all humans are going to be pumped excited if they have the prospect of being more successful. Or no?

I could be grasping at straws. I'd just like to hear an experienced take on the emotion of being an Olineman when a different sort of QB comes in - especially one who is supposed to elevate the team. And my point is I don't think we can look at "oline play when Dalton is in" as necessarily the whole story about whether it is wise to bring in Fields for Dalton if Dalton is struggling.
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The OL just cant be a sieve like they were for Nick Foles, or you risk “David Carr’ing” the kid. I just don’t think we have to wait multiple regular season games to know that, this line should be pretty decent if not downright good this year.

Regarding the emotional side, different strokes for different folks. But QB (and RB) play definitely impact the OL mentally. You kind of take on a bodyguard mentality when you play OL. You are taking pride in plays where other people are the ones making the throw, catch or run. I remember thinking anytime I saw the back of our RB I felt good and thought, “just go dude”. There’s almost a little jealousy or resentment? Not exactly that, kinda hard to explain. But the OL are a band of brothers, all taking a beating together so the pretty boys can shine - that sorta thing. So when the pretty boys fuck up a perfectly blocked play - yea, I’d get kind of pissed off. A QB running around and taking a sack THAT HITS MY STAT LINE, even if I won my matchup, is infuriating. Coaches can help by making it clear it won’t end up on your game grade, even so it’s annoying. And it’s just disheartening to see your QB miss throws or WR drop passes or RB hit the wrong hole - you work hard to do your part and you want to get the reward of a nice play. I never had the pleasure of playing with a really good QB, but I’m sure it would be really uplifting for the OL. The few times my QB actually picked me up after I missed a block was pretty great, I imagine if I had a great player back there making plays even when I get beat it would just be awesome to play with that guy.

I don’t know if that’s what you were asking or not.
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If you genuinely like one guy better, or believe that one guy deserves to play over another, or the new QB simply comes in and knows what he’s doing and gives off some confidence, then yes you will always be more willing to throw your head up against the wall of the defense for the new guy.
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dplank wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:30 am
I don’t know if that’s what you were asking or not.
It is exactly what I was looking for... just to hear from a big hoss's mouth that it can be uplifting just to have a great QB (or potentially great one) come in... that it isn't entirely crazy to think the Oline might actually play better for JF1 than Dalton. I know Dalton is decent and seemingly a good guy, so it probably wouldn't be that significant. But what if Dalton was struggling and the team kind of knew that JF1 was going to do well when he got his chance. In that case I could see the Oline maybe not looking as good in front of Dalton but then getting a spark when JF1 came in. That was my point - I don't think the play of the Oline is necessarily the factor that should determine whether JF1 gets the nod... that maybe its the opposite.

I know this theory doesn't guarantee anything & nothing is guaranteed. Just wanting to know if it was wishful thinking of me to assume the Oline will be excited and potentially even play better when/because JF1 hits the field.

I know it isn't guaranteed that Olinemen like the QB. I understand when some guys come in the Oline might be inclined to play matador. hehe
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IE wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:14 am
dplank wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:30 am
I don’t know if that’s what you were asking or not.
It is exactly what I was looking for... just to hear from a big hoss's mouth that it can be uplifting just to have a great QB (or potentially great one) come in... that it isn't entirely crazy to think the Oline might actually play better for JF1 than Dalton. I know Dalton is decent and seemingly a good guy, so it probably wouldn't be that significant. But what if Dalton was struggling and the team kind of knew that JF1 was going to do well when he got his chance. In that case I could see the Oline maybe not looking as good in front of Dalton but then getting a spark when JF1 came in. That was my point - I don't think the play of the Oline is necessarily the factor that should determine whether JF1 gets the nod... that maybe its the opposite.

I know this theory doesn't guarantee anything & nothing is guaranteed. Just wanting to know if it was wishful thinking of me to assume the Oline will be excited and potentially even play better when/because JF1 hits the field.

I know it isn't guaranteed that Olinemen like the QB. I understand when some guys come in the Oline might be inclined to play matador. hehe
I think it extends beyond just OL, the entire team gets uplifted. Did you see that quote from Darnell Mooney about smiling while he was running under the first long toss by Fields? The WR's for sure get uplifted, can you imagine how frustrating it was for those guys to finally break loose for a deep bomb only to have Mitch sail the ball into the first row or wildly out of bounds? Even the defense. They know when one guy is holding the team back like Mitch has been for a few years now and will resent that they constantly are being put in bad situation after bad situation because we can't move the ball or score. I always thought Nagy risked losing the locker room by continuing to put Mitch out there after it was obvious he couldn't play. Turns out he really didn't have better options, but the fact that it was even in question with guys like Nick Foles, Tyler Bray, and Chase Daniel speaks volumes about how bad Mitch was.

So this thought is very valid IMO, and even more so with a guy like Fields potentially sitting there and not playing if Dalton isn't getting it done. If Fields is clearly the better player in practice, everyone will know it and Nagy will be under great pressure from the players to play the best man.
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agreed
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I will say this DP/IE, if Dalton is consistently throwing multiple interceptions in practice while Fields is throwing tuddies, I don't see how you can NOT start him opening day, provided of course that the OL isn't a complete sieve. Then, I don't see you can. We're better off exposing Dalton, and even Foles, to that kind of high injury risk rather than Fields.
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Yogi da Bear wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:49 pm I will say this DP/IE, if Dalton is consistently throwing multiple interceptions in practice while Fields is throwing tuddies, I don't see how you can NOT start him opening day, provided of course that the OL isn't a complete sieve. Then, I don't see you can. We're better off exposing Dalton, and even Foles, to that kind of high injury risk rather than Fields.
My entire point was that the assumption of heightened oline-related injury risk for the guy coming in when things aren't going well for the other guy... is sort of false. Or... at least not necessarily true. As advocated by experienced guys.

I'll ask it again... is the Oline improved from last year, or not? I thought people loved and wanted Jenkins. I thought people were pinching themselves at the pick of 2 OTs in the first 3 picks, including a first round grade for one. I thought people were pleasantly surprised with Ifedi at RT last year and encouraged by what they saw in & heard about Mustipher's performance and rep with his teammates. I thought people would be happy to have Daniels back after the tragic injury last year, with Whitehair as his bookend G. I thought people thought Leno was horrible and were yelling to replace him for multiple years. And Massie too.

So what the eff? This Oline thing is just being used as a easy justification for an opinion people are needing to justify. But it is not a justification. It is as hollow as hollow can be. This Oline will be very much improved from last year for many reasons, and may even be really really good - and will be perfectly fine for any QB including a rookie.
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AZ_Bearfan wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:19 pm
He will own this city if he hits his ceiling...
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Yogi da Bear wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:49 pm I will say this DP/IE, if Dalton is consistently throwing multiple interceptions in practice while Fields is throwing tuddies, I don't see how you can NOT start him opening day, provided of course that the OL isn't a complete sieve. Then, I don't see you can. We're better off exposing Dalton, and even Foles, to that kind of high injury risk rather than Fields.
I still feel bad for the shit show Foles had to deal with last year.
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IE wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:58 pm
Yogi da Bear wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:49 pm I will say this DP/IE, if Dalton is consistently throwing multiple interceptions in practice while Fields is throwing tuddies, I don't see how you can NOT start him opening day, provided of course that the OL isn't a complete sieve. Then, I don't see you can. We're better off exposing Dalton, and even Foles, to that kind of high injury risk rather than Fields.
My entire point was that the assumption of heightened oline-related injury risk for the guy coming in when things aren't going well for the other guy... is sort of false. Or... at least not necessarily true. As advocated by experienced guys.

I'll ask it again... is the Oline improved from last year, or not? I thought people loved and wanted Jenkins. I thought people were pinching themselves at the pick of 2 OTs in the first 3 picks, including a first round grade for one. I thought people were pleasantly surprised with Ifedi at RT last year and encouraged by what they saw in & heard about Mustipher's performance and rep with his teammates. I thought people would be happy to have Daniels back after the tragic injury last year, with Whitehair as his bookend G. I thought people thought Leno was horrible and were yelling to replace him for multiple years. And Massie too.

So what the eff? This Oline thing is just being used as a easy justification for an opinion people are needing to justify. But it is not a justification. It is as hollow as hollow can be. This Oline will be very much improved from last year for many reasons, and may even be really really good - and will be perfectly fine for any QB including a rookie.
IE, you're mistaking a condition for a justification. If, as you say, that the OL is greatly improved from last year, I would have no problem putting Fields out there if he earned it. But if our OL is as bad as it was at times last year, if it's having performance issues where it's likely to give up sixty to seventy sacks, like Carr's Houston team did, there's no way I would put Fields out there. Hell, I'd recall Tyler Bray from Walmart and put him out there before risking Fields. I simply see no benefit to David Carring, or even worse, RG3ing the kid. It's not a justification it's a condition. If the OL performs--fine. If it bombs--no fucking way.

As you've mentioned there are plenty of reasons to be positive about this line, but there are also plenty of concerns: you have a rookie RT converting to LT; you have a somebody playing a brand new position at RG; you have a UDFA Center starting a season for the first time; you have the question of whether Ifedi can continue his RT performance (he didn't look good there when he was in Seattle). I can also say that I was not one of those down on Leno. I've always like Leno, though I do think his play has slipped since his marriage. But he's still been decent. Not stellar, but passable. I hope that Jenkins plays up to at least that level as a rookie in pass protection. If he does, then he'd be a solid improvement as his run blocking can't help but being better. I do see the positives you've mentioned. I acknowledge them, but I'm not yet convinced that they're going to pan out that way. If Jenkins can't be a successful LT, then we're in very real trouble. I think he can, but I'm far from certain of it.
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Yogi da Bear wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:40 am
IE wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:58 pm

My entire point was that the assumption of heightened oline-related injury risk for the guy coming in when things aren't going well for the other guy... is sort of false. Or... at least not necessarily true. As advocated by experienced guys.

I'll ask it again... is the Oline improved from last year, or not? I thought people loved and wanted Jenkins. I thought people were pinching themselves at the pick of 2 OTs in the first 3 picks, including a first round grade for one. I thought people were pleasantly surprised with Ifedi at RT last year and encouraged by what they saw in & heard about Mustipher's performance and rep with his teammates. I thought people would be happy to have Daniels back after the tragic injury last year, with Whitehair as his bookend G. I thought people thought Leno was horrible and were yelling to replace him for multiple years. And Massie too.

So what the eff? This Oline thing is just being used as a easy justification for an opinion people are needing to justify. But it is not a justification. It is as hollow as hollow can be. This Oline will be very much improved from last year for many reasons, and may even be really really good - and will be perfectly fine for any QB including a rookie.
IE, you're mistaking a condition for a justification. If, as you say, that the OL is greatly improved from last year, I would have no problem putting Fields out there if he earned it. But if our OL is as bad as it was at times last year, if it's having performance issues where it's likely to give up sixty to seventy sacks, like Carr's Houston team did, there's no way I would put Fields out there. Hell, I'd recall Tyler Bray from Walmart and put him out there before risking Fields. I simply see no benefit to David Carring, or even worse, RG3ing the kid. It's not a justification it's a condition. If the OL performs--fine. If it bombs--no fucking way.

As you've mentioned there are plenty of reasons to be positive about this line, but there are also plenty of concerns: you have a rookie RT converting to LT; you have a somebody playing a brand new position at RG; you have a UDFA Center starting a season for the first time; you have the question of whether Ifedi can continue his RT performance (he didn't look good there when he was in Seattle). I can also say that I was not one of those down on Leno. I've always like Leno, though I do think his play has slipped since his marriage. But he's still been decent. Not stellar, but passable. I hope that Jenkins plays up to at least that level as a rookie in pass protection. If he does, then he'd be a solid improvement as his run blocking can't help but being better. I do see the positives you've mentioned. I acknowledge them, but I'm not yet convinced that they're going to pan out that way. If Jenkins can't be a successful LT, then we're in very real trouble. I think he can, but I'm far from certain of it.
I think this is a fair middle ground for our competing thoughts. I do tend to think our OL will be pretty good, but if it’s not I’m fine letting Dalton take the beat down instead of Fields.
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G08 wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:38 pm
AZ_Bearfan wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:19 pm
He will own this city if he hits his ceiling...
My ceiling for him is to be a consistent top 5 or 7 QB in year 3.

If he does that, and the Bears are consistent playoff contenders, then yes 100% he will own this town like no other athlete since Jordan.

He has everything going for him to get there. His abilities, supporting coaching staff (Nagy and Flip), an above average defense that has a chance to be elite again under new leadership and a fanbase that already loves him.

He's gonna do this.
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My ceiling for him is:

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Or better yet:

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Would love to have all those trophies.

I mean we are talking "CEILINGS" here. Might as well aim for the stars.
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@Yogi da Bear I remember you and I were very, very high on Patrick Mahomes in 2017. I didn't think he'd be a first round pick because he was so fucking raw. Hell, even Tyreek Hill said that when he saw Mahomes as a rookie, he thought he was "trash". Amazing what excellent coaching and dedication to mechanics will do for an supremely talented QB.

I don't know if Fields has Mahomes' arm strength (who does?), but I will pound the table and say Fields is a better athlete.

Not a lot of 6024, 227 lbs QBs that run a 4.45.

Completely unrelated too but if Matt Nagy shits the bed this and/or next season, I'm all for hiring Ryan Day.
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If'n the Bears don't have a winning record and/or make the playoffs, the play of Fields may be the factor which gives Pace and Nagy additional time.
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@Yogi da Bear

While I would be elated if you were right, here are the top QBs expected to be in the league in 3 years when I think it's fair to give Fields a critical evaluation.

Mahomes
Brady
Watson
Rodgers
WIlson
Allen
Prescott
Lamar Jackson
Mayfield
Stafford
Herbert
Murray
Burrow
Lawrence

If I were to rank the top handful I'd say:

Mahomes
Brady - He's the GOAT until he steps down or declines.
Allen
Watson - Depends on where Hand Job Gate takes him.
Jackson - I think the world of Lamar Jackson. Could be meatball here on my part, but I think that guy is a stud.

I left Wilson out because he's going to be 35 and he's taken a lot of hits recently. No disrespect to a clear HOF'er.

I think Aaron Rodgers is a raging penis and he can fuck off, die and get pineapples shoved up his ass by Hitler for all I care. That being said, in all seriousness, he will be 40 and potentially with a different team. I just don't see him in the upper tier anymore.

My personal ceiling for Lawrence is Stafford. A really good QB that you can be proud of and win because of with the right talent, but he'll always be on a bad team like Stafford.

If Fields even sniffed the tail end of that top handful list I would be in a state of bliss. I'm not saying he's incapable it's just that look at the list of people he's competing with.

But again, I hope you're right.
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Nice Little Nicky reference there lmao

In 3 years, I think the QB Top 5 will be:

Mahomes
Wilson
Fields
Watson
Allen

Erin/Brady will be gone IMO. If Wilson is gone then probably Murray moves up into the top 5. Fields is heading for greatness, I just feel it coming. In part because we are way overdue for it, but mainly I just have loved everything I've learned about the kid since we drafted him - he's built for this.
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What's Fields' ceiling?

He has a football brain along with the all business, dedicated approach. He already knows how to throw a football very accurately anywhere. He shows the processing ability to read defenses and go to plans B and C. He has clearly above average athletic ability yet already understands he needs to be a thrower first and runner second. He already understands when to give up on a play and get down or throw it away instead of trying to force something that isn't there.

There is no ceiling for JF1. It's as simple as that.
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Bears rookie QB Justin Fields can learn from Andy Dalton without becoming him
The high end of Fields’ potential is far greater than what Dalton’s done throughout his career. But Dalton can still be a great tutor during Fields’ rookie season.

By Jason Lieser  Jun 12, 2021, 5:00am CDT
The Bears want Justin Fields to learn from Andy Dalton. They just don’t want him to become Dalton.

There’s a big difference between the two as coach Matt Nagy handles the tasks of getting Dalton ready to be his starter this season and developing Fields as the franchise quarterback the team has coveted for decades.

His template for this project is the one the Chiefs used with Alex Smith and Patrick Mahomes in 2017, when Nagy was the offensive coordinator under Andy Reid. In the same way that the Chiefs expected Mahomes to far exceed the high end of what they could get from Smith, the Bears need Fields — eventually — to be a lot better than Dalton.

“Justin’s going to be Justin, no doubt about it,” Nagy said when asked about the folly of trying to turn Fields into Dalton. “But they’re going to learn from each other, and the little things that I’m seeing in the meeting room and out here at practice, it really does remind me of [Smith and Mahomes].”

Nagy is confident that is the best path and would prefer to stick with Dalton for the entire season. It worked for Mahomes. It worked for Aaron Rodgers, who sat his first three seasons with the Packers. There are also examples of rookies — Justin Herbert and Baker Mayfield, just in the last few seasons — playing well right away.

Mahomes’ lone start as a rookie was a meaningless regular-season finale in which he threw for 284 yards with an interception and no touchdowns. He won the MVP the next season. Then he won the Super Bowl. Then he signed a $500 million contract.

“For him to be able to develop like that and learn from Alex and grow, he would probably tell you it was a pretty good thing,” Nagy said. “If he would have played sooner, would he have done what he did the following year? Maybe. We don’t know that. But I would guess it helped him.”

Dalton is a reasonable equivalent of Smith as the Bears try to replicate what the Chiefs did. He’s not great, but solid. Not explosive, but savvy. He’s trying to extend his own career, but happy to be a mentor.

The Bengals spent nine seasons trying to figure out if Dalton was good enough and, after a collective 87.5 passer rating and zero playoff wins, they ultimately decided he wasn’t. Even at his best, he wasn’t the dynamic threat that Fields is projected to be. Fields walked in the door with a superior deep ball and dangerous running ability, putting him miles ahead physically before his first step onto the practice field. Once he’s ready, the Bears want Fields playing a different game entirely.

Dalton, in his 11th season and a few months away from turning 34, is here to be safe and reliable. Those are useful qualities in a quarterback, but it will only take the Bears so far. Even if everything goes their way this season, it’s hard to imagine them doing better than a wild-card spot with Dalton starting.

There’s still purpose, though, in Fields studying his every move over the next several months. Plenty of Dalton’s knowledge is universal, and Fields can apply it in his own way.

“How are you responding to making a good play [versus] throwing an interception, per se?” Nagy said, beginning a checklist of rookie lessons for Fields. “The biggest thing that Justin can learn from Andy is just understanding the defenses that he’s seeing.

“So [Dalton is] going to help him grow . . . Justin, he’s got to see Andy’s cadence — what he’s doing with his voice inflection, the way he says ‘White 80,’ versus the way Justin says it at the line of scrimmage. And then, of course, how to handle teammates.”

Fields has already gotten a quick class on that last subject during organized team activities.

He and Dalton recently were in a meeting with Nagy and quarterbacks coach John DeFilippo as they broke down practice film. Nagy, DeFilippo, offensive coordinator Bill Lazor and various other assistants all have specific roles in the Fields project, as do Dalton and fellow veteran Nick Foles. DeFilippo zeroes in on mechanics, and on this particular clip, he disregarded a strong throw by Fields and harped on his faulty footwork instead.

When DeFilippo finished, Dalton turned to Fields and reassured him, “Hey, dude, that was a hell of a throw right there.”

That seems small, but it’s vital. Fields is 22 and spent the last several months hearing analysts and scouts nitpick his mechanics. It’s why he slid from being the consensus second-best quarterback in college football to being the fourth one drafted, going to the Bears at No. 11 overall.

To hear one of his new coaches pile it on, even if he’s correct, was probably daunting. To see Dalton — the man whose job he’s trying to take, no less — have his back had to help.

“For him, it’s all new,” Dalton said last week. “I’m trying to give him advice on certain things, how I would view certain plays, what I’d do with my eyes on certain things, different things that come with experience. I’m going into Year 11. I’ve had a lot of ball. I’m just trying to help him out as much as I can.”

All of that information is useful for Fields, and he’s capable of learning from Dalton’s play without mimicking it. He can take the tools Dalton gives him and build a completely different house, just like Mahomes did.
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Pretty good read and it got me thinking about Alex Smith vs. Andy Dalton in terms of their experience and production in the NFL as they went into a season being a mentor yet still being a starter.

Alex Smith: 158 starts (including playoffs) Andy Dalton: 146 starts (including playoffs)

The statistical production I'm going to provide below does not include playoff production out of laziness, if anyone wants to add and compile the stats and let me know, feel free

Alex Smith
4613 attempts, 62.4% completion, 31888 yards, 183 TDs, 96 INT, 4.0% TD, 2.1% INT, 6.9 YPA, 87.4 rating

Andy Dalton
4782 attempts, 62.2% completion, 33764 yards, 218 TDs, 126 INTs, 4.6% TD, 2.6% INT, 7.1 YPA, 87.5 rating


These two are stupidly similar in their career production.
Last edited by G08 on Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN 31 SEASONS
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IE
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It makes no sense to ignore playoff stats. But regardless, I'd bet that if you took any two modern day NFL QBs that started for a long time but also ended up not winning enough or winning much the average stats over time approach a mean just due to longevity and staying power. It just doesn't really tell us anything. Also a 10 year vet could have 5 years of 82 rating followed by 5 years of 95 rating. And the other reversed. Which one do you want, and why? What else do you need to know? Which one would you think is more likely to start instead of a Justin Fields?

I honestly don't think the analogy works without Andy Reid and his experience and judgement anyway. I just see no analogy without Andy Reid - no matter how much I like Flip and Lazor. Nagy's dreams of becoming Andy Reid are still just that. Although he's gained a few lbs during covid like I have - so maybe he IS on a walrus track. lol

Mahomes didn't learn from Smith. He learned from Reid just like Smith did (and got himself a big FA contract because of). And even then Nagy admits he doesn't know that Mahomes wouldn't have played the exact same in Reids system from jump. I personally think he would have, and instead of just MVP they might have two rings already. I'm just as right as people saying he learned from sitting.
Ryan Pace for Mayor.
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No two star QB stories are 1:1 identical. There's no necessarily right or wrong way to theorize at this point.
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UOK wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:36 am No two star QB stories are 1:1 identical. There's no necessarily right or wrong way to theorize at this point.
For sure, I think my over-arching point is there is an experienced NFL veteran playing the "Alex Smith" role in what I am viewing as the Patrick Mahomes - Kansas City Chiefs QB development model. If it helps to paint a clearer picture with making things "identical", I'm too lazy to manually add playoff stats to what profootballfocus provided (they only summarize regular season games). If you have another site or anything @UOK which includes it to help paint a broader picture LMK. I'll update the post to reflect as such.

Does that mean Fields won't play until the last game of the season? Of course not. From a perspective of trying to understand what they are doing, the KC model is patently clear to me.
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I'm gonna trust whatever Nagy decides is best...BUT, I'm not giving Nagy a free pass this year just because Fields is a rookie. If this offense continues to flounder, Nagy's gotta go IMO. Adjust thinking accordingly.

Also, while I understand Nagy wanting to recreate the Mahomes thing - it's not apples to apples. Why not recreate the Peyton Manning thing instead? Or, better yet, why not CREATE your OWN thing.
Last edited by dplank on Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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dplank wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:56 am I'm gonna trust whatever Nagy decides is best...BUT, I'm not giving Nagy a free pass this year just because Fields is a rookie. If this offense continues to flounder, Nagy's gotta go IMO. Adjust thinking accordingly.
I think that's a completely fair take. I don't think anyone here is pounding the table saying Matt Nagy is an elite offensive mind and has coordinated elite NFL offenses here. Far from it. He's been a terrific head coach, though, and I don't discount for one second his ability to keep the boat steady amidst all the turmoil and losing streaks we had the past two seasons. That is not an easy feat to accomplish in a room full of egotistical men.

I am however curious on what you consider to be "flounder", @dplank. This side of a 4-13 season (no major injuries), I think Pace and Nagy are here through the end of their contracts (Nagy's expires after the 2022 season and I'm fairly certain Pace was given a "secret extension" [phrasing] to line up with Nagy's deal).
Last edited by G08 on Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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G08 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:58 am
dplank wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:56 am I'm gonna trust whatever Nagy decides is best...BUT, I'm not giving Nagy a free pass this year just because Fields is a rookie. If this offense continues to flounder, Nagy's gotta go IMO. Adjust thinking accordingly.
I think that's a completely fair take, but I'm curious on what you consider to be "flounder". Truthfully, I think Pace and Nagy are here through the end of their contracts (Nagy's expires after the 2022 season and I'm fairly certain Pace was given a "secret extension" [phrasing] to line up with Nagy's deal).
Bottom third of the league in yards/scoring would be a flounder.
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dplank wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:59 am
G08 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:58 am

I think that's a completely fair take, but I'm curious on what you consider to be "flounder". Truthfully, I think Pace and Nagy are here through the end of their contracts (Nagy's expires after the 2022 season and I'm fairly certain Pace was given a "secret extension" [phrasing] to line up with Nagy's deal).
Bottom third of the league in yards/scoring would be a flounder.
I don't give a shit about yards, honestly. Scoring/points are the only thing that matters.

Being ranked 21st/22nd in scoring would be considered bottom third, are you saying if that occurs you want him gone?
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN 31 SEASONS
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