Pace's magic with pick 45 from 2017

[Arkansasbear]

So it's clear Pace blew it with the selection of Adam Shaheen with pick 45 in 2017. But at least we have something to show for it. He traded him to the Fins and got what ended up being a 6th round pick as he made their roster. He then flipped that pick into 2 picks and walked away with Khalil Herbert and Khyrsis Tonja.

Granted these are late round picks, but both could have a spot on this team next year. A potential kick return man and a 3rd/4th RB and a run clogger for the defense.

So at least he didn't simply cut him and hung onto him long enough that we at least got 2 "lottery ticket" players.

I think this is where we are with Miller now. He'll hang onto him at least through training camp and if some team has an injury we can hope they come calling. i think Miller has more talent and could maybe land a 5th or very late 4th round conditional pick.

[Moriarty]

Getting a 6 for Shaheen was pretty impressive (or lucky). I'd be startled if they can do better with Miller.

[Arkansasbear]

Getting a 6 for Shaheen was pretty impressive (or lucky). I'd be startled if they can do better with Miller.

Miller IMO clearly has the talent to play in the NFL, his issue is between the ears. Just seems like some coach always thinks they can get the best out of a guy like that. That's why I think we could MAYBE get a bit more if its' the right team that suffers an injury at the right time.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Getting a 6 for Shaheen was pretty impressive (or lucky). I'd be startled if they can do better with Miller.

Given that the Dolphins signed Shaheen to a 2 year $7.85m contact extension with $3.2m guaranteed, they presumably like him enough to consider it a 6th round pick well spent. I didn't watch any Dolphins games last season to see how they're using him, but presumably it's more of a blocking than pass catcher role because he only had 12 receptions on 14 targets, although 3 of them were for TDs.

It didn't pan out for Shaheen in Chicago, but the fact that another team were willing to trade for him and then give him a reasonably lucrative extension suggests that it wasn't an altogether terrible misjudgement by Pace and his scouting team.

[wulfy]

Did they really? Wow ... that's amazing.

[Moriarty]

Getting a 6 for Shaheen was pretty impressive (or lucky). I'd be startled if they can do better with Miller.

Given that the Dolphins signed Shaheen to a 2 year $7.85m contact extension with $3.2m guaranteed, they presumably like him enough to consider it a 6th round pick well spent. I didn't watch any Dolphins games last season to see how they're using him, but presumably it's more of a blocking than pass catcher role because he only had 12 receptions on 14 targets, although 3 of them were for TDs.

It didn't pan out for Shaheen in Chicago, but the fact that another team were willing to trade for him and then give him a reasonably lucrative extension suggests that it wasn't an altogether terrible misjudgement by Pace and his scouting team.

The Miami situation is really peculiar. I looked up their group:

Mike Gesicki
(2.42 6054 247 4.56, 621 Osnaps, 2 STsnaps, 53 catches 703 yds)

Durham Smythe
(4.123 6053 253 4.84, 448 Osnaps, 232 STsnaps, 26 catches 208 yds)

Adam Shaheen
(2.45 6056 278 4.78, 367 Osnaps, 1 STsnaps, 12 catches 150 yds)

Gesicki is the main guy, fast, catches most of the passes.
Smythe has the 2nd most snaps, 2nd most catches, AND is the special teams guy.
Shaheen is getting snaps, but has minimal catches, and doesn't even play ST.

Who the hell pays 4M/yr, multiyear, with half guaranteed for your 3rd TE, blocker only, who gives you nothing on special teams??? Either they correctly see a ton of upside after 4 years in the league, or they caught DSD (Dion Sims Disease) from Pace.

So, I don't think you can put too much stock in the contract. They're clearly banking on him (rapidly) becoming something he's never been before at the pro level.

If he stays the same guy, spending a 6 for a solid blocking TE3 isn't terrible. It's at the top end of what you should spend. But, at the time of the trade, it was highly questionable he could even be that. He couldn't even stay healthy enough to be on the field consistently at that point. So, I'd argue their offer was a little high, given that large drawback/risk. There's room to debate, though.

As for Pace's evaluation, though - I don't see anything at all yet that helps the pick not be a disaster for him.
Gesicki is an ok outcome for a R2 TE. Barely clinging to the bottom of a roster isn't. Maybe if he makes the jump Miami is picturing, then it will help reduce how black a mark he gets.

[southdakbearfan]

Given that the Dolphins signed Shaheen to a 2 year $7.85m contact extension with $3.2m guaranteed, they presumably like him enough to consider it a 6th round pick well spent. I didn't watch any Dolphins games last season to see how they're using him, but presumably it's more of a blocking than pass catcher role because he only had 12 receptions on 14 targets, although 3 of them were for TDs.

It didn't pan out for Shaheen in Chicago, but the fact that another team were willing to trade for him and then give him a reasonably lucrative extension suggests that it wasn't an altogether terrible misjudgement by Pace and his scouting team.

The Miami situation is really peculiar. I looked up their group:

Mike Gesicki
(2.42 6054 247 4.56, 621 Osnaps, 2 STsnaps, 53 catches 703 yds)

Durham Smythe
(4.123 6053 253 4.84, 448 Osnaps, 232 STsnaps, 26 catches 208 yds)

Adam Shaheen
(2.45 6056 278 4.78, 367 Osnaps, 1 STsnaps, 12 catches 150 yds)

Gesicki is the main guy, fast, catches most of the passes.
Smythe has the 2nd most snaps, 2nd most catches, AND is the special teams guy.
Shaheen is getting snaps, but has minimal catches, and doesn't even play ST.

Who the hell pays 4M/yr, multiyear, with half guaranteed for your 3rd TE, blocker only, who gives you nothing on special teams??? Either they correctly see a ton of upside after 4 years in the league, or they caught DSD (Dion Sims Disease) from Pace.

So, I don't think you can put too much stock in the contract. They're clearly banking on him (rapidly) becoming something he's never been before at the pro level.

If he stays the same guy, spending a 6 for a solid blocking TE3 isn't terrible. It's at the top end of what you should spend. But, at the time of the trade, it was highly questionable he could even be that. He couldn't even stay healthy enough to be on the field consistently at that point. So, I'd argue their offer was a little high, given that large drawback/risk. There's room to debate, though.

As for Pace's evaluation, though - I don't see anything at all yet that helps the pick not be a disaster for him.
Gesicki is an ok outcome for a R2 TE. Barely clinging to the bottom of a roster isn't. Maybe if he makes the jump Miami is picturing, then it will help reduce how black a mark he gets.

See Dion Sims example for paying a blocking TE way too much.

[The Cooler King]

Interesting connection.

Whether you ultimately fall on the pro or anti Pace, I definitely don't think he struggles with holding onto guys too long. He can admit a mistake and move on. That's typically a good trait, I think. Though of course its always better not to make as many mistakes

[RichH55]

Interesting connection.

Whether you ultimately fall on the pro or anti Pace, I definitely don't think he struggles with holding onto guys too long. He can admit a mistake and move on. That's typically a good trait, I think. Though of course its always better not to make as many mistakes

This could also get a see Dion Sims

He didn't move on fast there and that 2nd year cost 6 million in cap space

[The Cooler King]

Interesting connection.

Whether you ultimately fall on the pro or anti Pace, I definitely don't think he struggles with holding onto guys too long. He can admit a mistake and move on. That's typically a good trait, I think. Though of course its always better not to make as many mistakes

This could also get a see Dion Sims

He didn't move on fast there and that 2nd year cost 6 million in cap space

Okay.... Yes, he's not perfect, but he's generally been good with not holding onto mistakes too long.