Tebow signs 1yr deal w/Jags as a TE

[GSH]

lol jagz

urban meyer era gonna be so fun to watch play out

[dplank]

I just think when we call people out as racist simply because "they took a white guy over a minority" it's lazy. Especially when 4 years later when in the same boat, they pass over the white guy. Does racism exist? Hell yes it does and given my mother is a first generation American and her parents endured crap that NO ONE should have to go through I despise it with every ounce of my body. But we tend to just throw racism out there as the "reason" too easily without looking at what the other factors could be. Could racism play a factor in why Trubisky and Lawrence went first, it sure could. Have I seen anything that indicates to me that was the reason? Nope.

I'll never understand why when we talk about this, the unconscious bias that exists in the nfl, people cant wrap their minds around how that's COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than calling them a racist. Absolutely no one with a shred of credibility has called Pace racist. Yet every time this comes up dudes chime in with "wow you really think pace is racist?!?!?!"

what ever happened to nuance?

I actually think there's a direct line you draw from Pace taking Mitch to Pace taking Fields, in that he realized that how his brain has been wired to think about "traditional qb traits" is completely wrong. THIS IS NOT CALLING HIM A RACIST.

Agree 100%. People over simplify shit then get the summary wrong, then attack you for something you dont even mean, so I guess my answer Ark is “I agree?”I don’t think Pace is a racist, never have. That’s a completely different thing. Now back to the bias thing, yea it’s a thing. And I want Fields to prove the pundits who false labeled him a “one read” QB dead wrong. And screw Trevor Lawrence, I hope Fields is great and Lawrence flames out.

[wab]

This thread got weird.

[The Marshall Plan]

This thread got weird.

I like cheese.

[Arkansasbear]

I'll never understand why when we talk about this, the unconscious bias that exists in the nfl, people cant wrap their minds around how that's COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than calling them a racist. Absolutely no one with a shred of credibility has called Pace racist. Yet every time this comes up dudes chime in with "wow you really think pace is racist?!?!?!"

what ever happened to nuance?

I actually think there's a direct line you draw from Pace taking Mitch to Pace taking Fields, in that he realized that how his brain has been wired to think about "traditional qb traits" is completely wrong. THIS IS NOT CALLING HIM A RACIST.

Agree 100%. People over simplify shit then get the summary wrong, then attack you for something you dont even mean, so I guess my answer Ark is “I agree?”I don’t think Pace is a racist, never have. That’s a completely different thing. Now back to the bias thing, yea it’s a thing. And I want Fields to prove the pundits who false labeled him a “one read” QB dead wrong. And screw Trevor Lawrence, I hope Fields is great and Lawrence flames out.

I’m just commenting on what you wrote “ Race still matters in NFL QB evaluations. I hate it, I hate that it's true, but it's really impossible to ignore IMO. There was no reason to put Mitch over Mahomes or Watson”

When you say race matters (which could be true) and follow up that with there is NO REASON to put Mitch first, that, to me at least, reads race is only the reason it could have happened that way. That’s just not true. So if I misread what you were trying to convey, my bad. Likely not the best word choice by me either when I said lazy argument. Was meaning more so in how you phrased it to have it look as if the only reason Pace would have to go with Mitch was race.

[docc]

RACE MATTERS to me a LOT...

Give me a 4.25 RB or CB..instead of a 4.75 slug..

And that race matters..
Don't care if he's even a human being..just get speed and shifty and a brain..
My kinda pick..
Even a Martian or even something from Wisconsin..well..got to think about that a bit

[dplank]

Agree 100%. People over simplify shit then get the summary wrong, then attack you for something you dont even mean, so I guess my answer Ark is “I agree?”I don’t think Pace is a racist, never have. That’s a completely different thing. Now back to the bias thing, yea it’s a thing. And I want Fields to prove the pundits who false labeled him a “one read” QB dead wrong. And screw Trevor Lawrence, I hope Fields is great and Lawrence flames out.

I’m just commenting on what you wrote “ Race still matters in NFL QB evaluations. I hate it, I hate that it's true, but it's really impossible to ignore IMO. There was no reason to put Mitch over Mahomes or Watson”

When you say race matters (which could be true) and follow up that with there is NO REASON to put Mitch first, that, to me at least, reads race is only the reason it could have happened that way. That’s just not true. So if I misread what you were trying to convey, my bad. Likely not the best word choice by me either when I said lazy argument. Was meaning more so in how you phrased it to have it look as if the only reason Pace would have to go with Mitch was race.

All good Ark, lazy writing on my part as well. Definitely didn’t mean to imply Pace took Trubisky 100% because he’s white. Just bothers me that you never heard him questioned as a one read QB by the pundits, his intelligence was never questioned when it should have been. You see Watson statistically as good if not slightly better than Lawrence in the same program, one is “generational” and the other was consistently under valued. All about injury risk with Watson, or Trevor has him beat physically? Ok, why is he “generational “ but Fields isn’t? Nope, instead you hear Fields called a one read QB and he drops. There’s this deep subconscious bias out there that affects these evaluations - then the parrots start repeating it and all the sudden it’s a “narrative “. Why didn’t anyone question Mitch’s intelligence? He’s a plain moron, you couldn’t spot that when interviewing him, Watson, and Mahomes? Oh right, we didn’t even bother to interview Watson.

[RichH55]

Maybe the Scouts watch the games too?

Would a 1 read system - akin to Mariotta at Oregon - Not be something of a problem?

And Watson threw 17 INT his final season - ANY chance at all that could have played into it (also that a lot of the running he did in College was A) probably unsustainable to that level at his size in the Pros (checks notes: injuries - yep) B) The 40 Time was less than you would have expected

Or is it just Race and Pressers only?

[Yogi da Bear]

I have watched every Oregon for the last 20 years, and I assure you that Mariota was NOT in a one read system. Often they take that first read because it's open, but it's NOT a one read system. It will go from left flat to post to right flat or post to left flat, etc.... It was the same for Justin Herbert as well.

You're just spouting shit that you read from a pundit someplace.

[mmmc_35]

Man the mitch draft has really morphed. Personally I liked Mahomes. Yet he fell. I doubt the future hall of Famer fell because his skin color. Likely it was the risks he took, the system, and to be honest his game tape had some really wierd decisions. His arm is amazing and as one coach said about culter, he can throw a strawberry through a battleship. I loved mahomes. Buiscut was a legit prospect in his own right.

[RichH55]

I have watched every Oregon for the last 20 years, and I assure you that Mariota was NOT in a one read system. Often they take that first read because it's open, but it's NOT a one read system. It will go from left flat to post to right flat or post to left flat, etc.... It was the same for Justin Herbert as well.

You're just spouting shit that you read from a pundit someplace.

You really think Mariotta is still the guy to triple down on? Ok

He was getting plays off big Cue Cards and when the first read wasn't there he would usually run (i.e. One Read)

Was it one read 100% of the time?!?? No. That's not what makes an offense a problematic one read system

Also to stay on topic for the Board - You will not find a better Heisman speech than Mariotta's - it's too bad he wasn't very good at playing QB - Seems like a great guy

[Yogi da Bear]

Not true Rich. Simply not true. You're spewing crap you know nothing about. How many Oregon games have you watched all the way through, and if you say more than a half dozen, you're lying through you're teeth. I've seen every single Duck game of his. Your information must have come from some press conference with a pundit. lol

Here's some highlights. Go through and watch how many of those plays go to second and third reads. Watch his head move as he goes through his progressions.



Let me ask you something. You've stated you wanted Mac Jones over Fields. Do you think that Mac Jones was in a single read offense?

I'm still trying to get over the Ohio State has as much talent as Alabama claim. Or using a college stat that is directly reflected in a player's pro stat to prove that college stats are bogus. A 67% completion rate in college that becomes a 67% completion rate in the pros prove how bogus that college stat was. You're really on a Rich.

[RichH55]

Ohio State has a ton of talent - don't know what to tell you there. Ohio State also had 10 players selected - and its top two WR are projected as top 25 players (currently - Subject to change)

I watched a bunch of Big Ten this year (not that good sadly and my Illini stunk too) - Ohio State is clearly the most talented team in the Big Ten


I am sad you have learned nothing from Mariotta (probably can't even call him a Bust yet right?)

If you think Alabama is better talent wise - Ok. (Though two of the guys they had drafted weren't playing then)). But that is the Class of Ohio State talent

[RichH55]

And stop scouting from Highlights - learn

[Yogi da Bear]

And stop scouting from Highlights - learn

It's not "scouting" when you say he's a "one read" guy and I show you clips within his highlights where he's making two and three reads. It's showing you that you are wrong with direct evidence.

Stop using arguments from pundit press conferences to try to prove a point you know absolutely nothing about.

[Otis Day]

Unfortunately this is a Tebow thread that got away. STAY ON TASK PEOPLE SHIT!!!!!!! TAKE THIS OTHER BULLSHIT TO THE APPROPRIATE THREAD.

WTF HAS GOTTEN INTO SOME OF YOU PEOPLE? AND I AM NOT EVEN A MOD.

[Grizzled]

And his jersey is flying off the shelf. They love them some Tebow in the state of Florida.

[Xee]

And his jersey is flying off the shelf. They love them some Tebow in the state of Florida.

Thought you were joking but I just went to nflshop.com and sorted by top sellers and out of the top 5 spots, his jersey is 1-3 and Fields is 4-5.

I'm not sure how much of that revenue goes to the Jags vs split among the other teams but it does seem like a great way to bring in revenue to a struggling franchise. I honestly am lost as to how he has so much name recognition still when he's been out of the league so long and really didn't do much when he actually played.

[BreadNCircuses]

The Cult of Tebow reminds me of nothing so much as Matthew 6:5

"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.

[RichH55]

And stop scouting from Highlights - learn

It's not "scouting" when you say he's a "one read" guy and I show you clips within his highlights where he's making two and three reads. It's showing you that you are wrong with direct evidence.

Stop using arguments from pundit press conferences to try to prove a point you know absolutely nothing about.

Yeah - % matter

If you are suggesting a small amount of throws that have progressions means that is the majority thrust of the offense - We disagree

The majority of Mariottas snaps were one read (usually just one side of the field) and if it wasn't there he'd run - Which BTW works fantastic in College

I pointed this out at the time by the way - which is why I was relatively down on him (and I still thought he'd be better than he was mind you)

But I know - you can't even admit he was a bust or something akin to that - Can you at least maybe, possibly admit He didn't revolutionize the game and was a "small" disappointment?

[RichH55]

And his jersey is flying off the shelf. They love them some Tebow in the state of Florida.

That they do

In fairness he might be the greatest College player of all time (in the discussion at least)

[The Marshall Plan]

The Cult of Tebow reminds me of nothing so much as Matthew 6:5

"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.

You do realize a lot of athletes make some sort of religious gesture after they score or a big play right?

[Atkins&Rebel]

And his jersey is flying off the shelf. They love them some Tebow in the state of Florida.

Well that was an easy prediction...
Also, Tebow signed for the vet min, with no guarantees.
I think Meyer had him come back to take some media pressure off Lawrence as much as to do a solid for his friend.
But I do find it interesting that like Hill in New Orleans, he's being listed as a TE. Not the worst idea to take your young Franchise QB out on short rushing plays and some goaline to avoid injury, if you have a guy who can handle those runs.

[Grizzled]

And his jersey is flying off the shelf. They love them some Tebow in the state of Florida.

Well that was an easy prediction...
Also, Tebow signed for the vet min, with no guarantees.
I think Meyer had him come back to take some media pressure off Lawrence as much as to do a solid for his friend.
But I do find it interesting that like Hill in New Orleans, he's being listed as a TE. Not the worst idea to take your young Franchise QB out on short rushing plays and some goaline to avoid injury, if you have a guy who can handle those runs.

Hmm, didn't think of that. Using Tebow like Hill would add a new dimension to Jax' offense.

[Yogi da Bear]

It's not "scouting" when you say he's a "one read" guy and I show you clips within his highlights where he's making two and three reads. It's showing you that you are wrong with direct evidence.

Stop using arguments from pundit press conferences to try to prove a point you know absolutely nothing about.

Yeah - % matter

If you are suggesting a small amount of throws that have progressions means that is the majority thrust of the offense - We disagree

The majority of Mariottas snaps were one read (usually just one side of the field) and if it wasn't there he'd run - Which BTW works fantastic in College

I pointed this out at the time by the way - which is why I was relatively down on him (and I still thought he'd be better than he was mind you)

But I know - you can't even admit he was a bust or something akin to that - Can you at least maybe, possibly admit He didn't revolutionize the game and was a "small" disappointment?

Mariota was in a one read system as much as Mac Jones was. The reason why you may think that is because the wide receivers (much like Alabama's last year) were so good that that first read was open so that's where he went. Would you want him to ignore his open first read to go to a second read? That would be fucking stupid.

Those highlights show a lot. First, if you're looking at percentages, look at how many times he takes off running in them after his first read isn't there versus how many times he takes off after going to his second read and his pocket breaks down and how many times he hits his second and third read. You won't find many times at all that he takes off after his first read isn't there.

Second, they show that he DOES hit his second and third read quite a lot. That proves that there are second and third reads built into the scope of the offense. That the design is there alone proves that it's not a first read and take off concept offense. Here's game tape of the Pac 12 Championship Game. You tell me RICH, how many one read and take offs do you count?



Once again, you don't know what in the fuck you're talking about.

And no, I'm not willing to label Marcus a bust. Not yet I'm not. Here's tape of his only playing time for the Raiders last year:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elQAeCwZHDQ

[VA_Mountain_Bear]

TO me this is nothing more than a cynical move to fleece religious fans by getting them hyped to buy extra team merchandise. And so far it is working.

[RichH55]

Scouting by highlights is a fool's errand IMHO for College Kids

You can notice the absolute lack of NFL throws they asked Mariotta to make

Raiders tape that BTW got him a Massive Paycut and no other takers around the NFL - Tennessee immediately got better when they benched him

Both facts btw

[RichH55]

Yogi take last word - I am already doing enough damage on other threads - the fact you can't admit Mariotta has been a bust speaks more than your last post ever will anyway

So let me have it both barrels and we can move ob