Update: Morgan Moses appears to be headed to NY Jets

[wulfy]

Former WFT OT Morgan Moses is scheduled to visit the Bears on Wednesday, per source.
— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) June 1, 2021

Plays RT, could also be swing tackle. 15th Ranked OT by PFF in 2020.

[UOK]

Money will open up as of tomorrow since Leno's contract will come off the books.

[crueltyabc]

PFF’s Brad Spielberger says
After the Bears clear $9M in cap space tomorrow with Charles Leno's release, they'll have ~$8.4M (someone else replaces him on Top 51)

Rookie class should account for ~$3.84 million in 2021 cap space, so Bears still at just $4.5M (in-season wiggle room, not much more)

He also predicted Breeland would be 1/$2.5m and Moses would be more like 1/$5m so they would need to squeeze him in somehow. I always come back to a Mack extension or of course a deal with ARob. They could also waive Miller if they can’t move him and save a little bit of money

[wab]

The entire Bears OL is going to be RTs and former centers.

[UOK]

The entire Bears OL is going to be RTs and former centers.

It could be worse. It could be way worse.

[wab]

The entire Bears OL is going to be RTs and former centers.

It could be worse. It could be way worse.

Agreed. And it has been. *shudder*

[dplank]

I'm with you guys here, Moses appears too "overlappy" for me. I'd be all over getting Breeland though, a clear need.

[RichH55]

I'm with you guys here, Moses appears too "overlappy" for me. I'd be all over getting Breeland though, a clear need.

Wheres my build the lines guy!??!? (Playing)

I think Moses is better than Ifedi (but competition and depth - hurrah)


Breeland is more of a clear need - though I suspect we'd disagree on how much more

Three things:
1) If Moses is good that can potentially help your 1st Round QB
2) If Moses is good - that could mean he gets a monster FA contract- elsewhere which could mean a nice Comp pick (Tackles are undersupplied so tend to get overpaid on Day 1 of FA)
3). I just think Moses is a better football player than Breeland

[Grizzled]

Ifedi actually helped stabilize the line when he played RT last year. Now they have Borom and Wilkinson to provide competition at the position. Bringing in a LT, I can see that. Bringing in Breeland, that also. This is nothing but confusing.

[RichH55]

Ifedi actually helped stabilize the line when he played RT last year. Now they have Borom and Wilkinson to provide competition at the position. Bringing in a LT, I can see that. Bringing in Breeland, that also. This is nothing but confusing.

I really think most of the "stabilization "was just no Coward - I didn't think the OL was ever Good

[wulfy]

I think I'm more worried about Mustifer than I am Ifedi. Very small sample size on him during the Bum Slayer tour ....

[southdakbearfan]

Moses had a career year, for him, last season pff grade 80 which was top 5 for RT. The three seasons prior he sat around 65.

Ifedi was around 65 last season, but historically has been mid to low 50’s.

So it all depends on if they believe ifedi is finally putting it together and will continue to improve or if they want someone with a probable floor of last season ifedi and recent production well over that along with increasing their proven depth.

[Yogi da Bear]

The entire Bears OL is going to be RTs and former centers.

It could be worse. It could be way worse.

Yeah, they could be former defensive ends.

[Hoog]

Hoog approved signing here. This cat is the complete RT we need. You would then have the flexible Wilkinson, Ifedi, and Bars to cover the back up spots. All have played tackle/guard so if anyone goes down they fill in or if it's Mustipher you slide Daniels over. Win and Win. Pace is actually showing he knows something about football now.

[Arkansasbear]

The problem is the money. If it comes down to him or an upgrade at CB, give me the CB.

[IE]

I get the interest... if they hadn't already re-signed Ifedi. They're not moving Ifedi back to RG and his coach said he expects him to really step up this year and play at probowl level. So Moses is superfluous.

[Grizzled]

It could be worse. It could be way worse.

Yeah, they could be former defensive ends.

Not many Big Cat Williams' making the change.

[wulfy]

Not many Big Cat Williams' making the change.

Don't forget Mark Bortz!

[RichH55]

Players do it late in College too

It's kind of player specific - does not need to be a blanket rule like you can't pick a Tight End taller than 6'5 Or you can't draft a QB in the 6th Round if you only have 5 picks in the draft

Those rules are founded on real science!

[Grizzled]

Biggest knock I read on Jenkins was his arm length: 33.5". Supposedly 34" is the 'minimum' for a decent OT, with 33" being the floor. Thing is, there are numerous successful OTs in the NFL with the same arm length as TJ.

[IE]

Joe Thomas famously had 32" arms and that was considered a show-stopper for many leading up to that draft.

[Yogi da Bear]

I really don't get how a half in arm length is going to either make or break an offensive tackle. Never have understood that.

[IE]

I really don't get how a half in arm length is going to either make or break an offensive tackle. Never have understood that.

It is definitely a bit of a disadvantage if some guys have arms 3 inches longer. And I supposed if you looked at a chart with that particular characteristic mapped over other data (e.g. sacks allowed, years in the league, probowls, and such) it would be skewed in the direction of longer-armed fellows having more success. Just like QB height has a median and if you're to the left of it significantly you have to bring a lot to the table to counter it (speed, smarts, athleticism, leadership). But like with QB height, an OT being less than ideal with that one characteristic can't be a showstopper. Joe Thomas might be a good comp for Jenkins... motor, really good athlete, fierce dude on the field, and sort of known for being great but also having his own style of blocking (which he almost certainly developed to be as effective as he could with the tools he had).

[Grizzled]

I had to check it out, Joe Thomas was measured at 32-1/2" arm length. Jake Long was only a bit longer. I'm assuming Thomas, with his great technique, worked on his technique so it wasn't a hinderance in keeping guys out of the backfield. Obviously worked.

[IE]

I had to check it out, Joe Thomas was measured at 32-1/2" arm length. Jake Long was only a bit longer. I'm assuming Thomas, with his great technique, worked on his technique so it wasn't a hinderance in keeping guys out of the backfield. Obviously worked.

https://www.milehighreport.com/2021/4/2 ... short-arms

[IE]

Cool... I found actual charts with arm length plotted over other stats!

https://www.pff.com/news/does-arm-length-affect-ot-play

[Yogi da Bear]

Good article. Actually didn't find any correlation. Maybe even a negative one. There is a trade off it would seem. Longer arms would give you the ability to keep defenders off of you, but longer arms would actually be harder to develop strength in them. Guys with shorter arms certainly have a much higher bench press generally. Somebody like Muhammad Ali actually had a normal reach for somebody his height, but the way he turned his body allowed him to increase that reach and that stinging jab allowed him to keep guys away.

[RichH55]

There is also some noise in the data (ALOT of that for the NFL)

Take a guy like Joe Thomas - he was indeed awesome and with less than ideal arm length - but could very much play the position. So he goes there - and he is indeed great

A guy who is more "average" - if he was 35 inch arms - they probably give him a chance at tackle - 32 inch? He's Guard all the way -So the more average guys are off the position before they are exposed

Which means blanket rules are still dumb (Don't say you won't draft TE over 6'5 or you can never draft a QB in the 5th/6th Round if you only have 5 picks in a given year - It's bad.

It's a little bit of what pushes up Guard pay against LT (even though LT is still paid more) - But LT get signed early or Franchised - Usually don't get to real Day 1 FA (and if they do you see the premium paid for average like Nate Solder) - but Guards get there all the time and get the "extra" money

Longer Arms will help you at every Offense Line position - it's a net positive to have

[crueltyabc]

The Bears and Jets have a mandatory minicamp June 15 so I think somebody either signs Moses before then, or nothing happens until training camp in late July/August.

[Moriarty]

Cool... I found actual charts with arm length plotted over other stats!

https://www.pff.com/news/does-arm-length-affect-ot-play

An interesting find.
I was really startled by the data at first.
But the more I think about it, I think it's using a biased pool and asking the wrong question.

Yes, the shorter armed Ts are performing as well as the longer armed Ts...because all the shorter armed Ts who couldn't/didn't perform well at T got moved inside.

I think maybe a better metric would be: what % of OLmen (first 3 rounds, all 7 rounds, some pool) with short/long (or S/M/L) arms become Career Starting Tackles (some cutoff of years/starts). Or maybe just have NFL careers of X/Y years/starts. (One issue of murkiness is that backups are often expected to play inside and outside).

My thinking is that, if, say
25% of Larms become career starting tackles, but only
10% of Sarms become career starting tackles (and everything we know says that ext is more valued than int - iow, if a guy might be able play outside, he almost always will get that chance)
then you should be able to conclude that L arms are significantly advantageous. (Which is already suggested by looking at the elite Ts, where they do definitely have longer arms)