Nagy optimism

[o-pus #40 in B major]

I will be so damn glad when we finally beat GB twice in a season and I hope you guys will quit chewing on each other's asses quite so much between now and then.

[G08]

If we just come back to the premise here...Nagy has been saddled with poor personnel to run his offense to date. Plus, it takes a few years for this type of offense to get rolling. So now that he's going into Year 4, with both an upgraded OL and QB room, I'm optimistic that he can finally deliver on his promise of bringing a modern, explosive offense to Chicago.

I don't love Nagy as much as others here, I just don't care at all for the logic (actually, lack there of) behind arguments against him.

I sincerely hope he learned from his past mistakes, focuses on the run game, and for fuck's sake design your offense around the strengths of your QB and skill position players.

This was supposed to be a happy thread.

Curious what made the tenor change...

[BreadNCircuses]

[The Marshall Plan]

That being said, it's either flat out incorrect or just plain dishonest to ignore the impact of Fangio and the kick in the pants the Mack trade provided. That shows up in the 12-4 record and the subsequent 8-8 seasons since Fangio left for Denver.

Lots of people died on Mitch Hill. Some of them spectacularly like the first 10 minutes of Saving Private Ryan. Instead of either lying or insulting, just own it.

I think all of us have been on a hill like that before. Mine is probably Cutler.

Nobody is ignoring it though, if anything you are doing the polar opposite in taking credit away from the head coach because of the DC and Mack. Keep in mind that Nagy (along with Pace) convinced Vic Fangio to return even after he interviewed for the head coaching job and was passed.

Has Fangio's defenses been elite in Denver? Why isn't he as impactful there?

Why don't you go back and answer the questions I posted instead of being an effing coward and pretending the post didn't exist?

I asked you to assign credit between the offense and defense for the 12-4. UOK then jumps in to deflect to try and save your ass and then you pretend it didn't happen.

You are ignoring it and you are being disingenuous at best and deliberately deceitful at worst.

Do you really not understand how having the #1 defense can lead to the 12-4 record instead of the #20 offense? Does that need to spelled out to you? Yes or no.

Nagy deserves 0 credit for that defense. Z-E-R-O. Fangio was here before him. Nagy didn't develop Mack into an elite pass rusher. Nagy was all about the offense and developing Mitch. Both of which he failed at miserably. Yet somehow you want him credited for the defense.

[G08]

Nobody is ignoring it though, if anything you are doing the polar opposite in taking credit away from the head coach because of the DC and Mack. Keep in mind that Nagy (along with Pace) convinced Vic Fangio to return even after he interviewed for the head coaching job and was passed.

Has Fangio's defenses been elite in Denver? Why isn't he as impactful there?

Why don't you go back and answer the questions I posted instead of being an effing coward and pretending the post didn't exist?

I asked you to assign credit between the offense and defense for the 12-4. UOK then jumps in to deflect to try and save your ass and then you pretend it didn't happen.

You are ignoring it and you are being disingenuous at best and deliberately deceitful at worst.

Do you really not understand how having the #1 defense can lead to the 12-4 record instead of the #20 offense? Does that need to spelled out to you? Yes or no.

Nagy deserves 0 credit for that defense. Z-E-R-O. Fangio was here before him. Nagy didn't develop Mack into an elite pass rusher. Nagy was all about the offense and developing Mitch. Both of which he failed at miserably. Yet somehow you want him credited for the defense.

"effing coward"

Settle down, Francis. It's a message board.

There's no deceit here; according to you, Khalil Mack's addition was worth 7 wins. Assigning credit to offense and defense for a team sport is mind-numbingly stupid and a waste of my time.

[dave99]

Here is my concern with Nagy:
It is almost inevitable that Fields will be good at some things that don't readily fit Nagy's schemes.
Conversely, he may not be quite good (at least at first) at things Nagy wants his offense to do.
Is Nagy flexible enough to build his system around Field's strengths or will he insist on square peg/round hole?
I do not pretend to have any inside baseball like statistics here, just a general observation that Nagy appears a bit rigid when circumstances challenged his assumptions.

[wab]

IIRC the Bears were 9th in scoring that year but 21st in yards. Logic would clearly dictate that the reason for this is because the offense generally didn't have that far to go, but that the they did their job and complimented the defensive and/or special teams effort with scores. I mean, the offense scored like 45 TDs. I'm not going to hold it against them that they didn't have far to go... I don't know how that can be a knock. They did exactly what they were supposed to do, it's not exactly their fault they didn't have a bunch of 80 yard scoring drives.

If you look at it in this context, I think in the case of the 2018 season, both units were pretty equally responsible for that record.

[The Grizzly One]

I don't love Nagy as much as others here, I just don't care at all for the logic (actually, lack there of) behind arguments against him.

I sincerely hope he learned from his past mistakes, focuses on the run game, and for fuck's sake design your offense around the strengths of your QB and skill position players.

"I sincerely hope he learned from his past mistakes" then (before actually) you say "I just don't care at all for the logic (actually, lack there of) behind arguments against him."

You hope he's learned. Meaning he has been "lacking knowledge" or "not good at it". Then you rip on those of us who are NOT convinced he has learned, or can be better?

Please, explain that logic to my illogical mind.

[The Grizzly One]

IIRC the Bears were 9th in scoring that year but 21st in yards. Logic would clearly dictate that the reason for this is because the offense generally didn't have that far to go, but that the they did their job and complimented the defensive and/or special teams effort with scores. I mean, the offense scored like 45 TDs. I'm not going to hold it against them that they didn't have far to go... I don't know how that can be a knock. They did exactly what they were supposed to do, it's not exactly their fault they didn't have a bunch of 80 yard scoring drives.

If you look at it in this context, I think in the case of the 2018 season, both units were pretty equally responsible for that record.

To you and others who believe this. I completely DISagree with you. But I respect your opinion and hope he's as good as you all think.

Again, he must show me and for that we can only, stay tuned.

[Yogi da Bear]

First, I want to say that I love Nagy. I think he's a great coach. I also want to emphasize that you win or lose as a TEAM! The parts are too interconnected to do otherwise.

Some of you want to give all the credit to the defense for the 2018 season. HOGWASH! Yeah, the defense deserves more than its share of the credit, but it also deserves quite a bit of blame too. If you wanted to, you could put every single defeat on their doorstep:

We have the complete horrifying collapse against Green Bay on Opening Day.

Up 21-10 halfway through the third against Miami, you have the defense collapse again against the great Brock Fucking Osweiler. And once they tied it (after the defense gave up a TD and 2 point conversion), the offense came right back and took the lead with a 29 yard TD pass from Mitchell to Miller with three minutes to play. The defense promptly gave it right back with a 75 yard TD. In overtime, after a failed field goal attempt by us, our defense couldn't stop them with less than 2 minutes to play and Miami won it with a field goal.

Against New England, after Trubisky brought them to within seven (31-38) with four minutes left, the defense couldn't get New England off the field for three and a half minutes, allowing them two first downs, and forcing us to burn all of our time outs. Yet, with only 24 seconds left from our own 20, our offense fell a yard short on a 54 yard Hail Mary to Kevin White. You going to blame the offense for allowing 38 points?

Against the Giants, with Chase Daniel at QB, the Bears built a 14-7 lead with 17 seconds in the first half. Facing a 3rd and 23 the Bears called timeout hoping to get the ball back. The defense then gave up a 22 yard run to Barkley and then on 4th and one, a 9 yard pass. The Giant were able to kick a 57 yard field goal with one second left. The defense then allowed the Giants to control the third quarter, going up 24-14. With 9:29 left in the fourth, the Bears cut it to 24-17. The defense then let the Giants run seven minutes off the clock, picking up four first downs. After a punt and a fumble, the Bears held the Giants to a field goal with 1:53 to play. The offense scored 10 points in the final 1:53 to tie the game. The defense then allowed the Giants to drive for a field goal in overtime to win 30-27.

Even the double doink game, the defense carries blame. The Bears held a 15-10 lead with 4:48 to play. The Bears allowed the Eagles nearly a 4 minute drive to take the lead. In doing so, the allowed them to score on a 4th and goal from our 2. The offense then took over and drove the to Eagles 24 before Parkey doinked it twice.

So I could blame that vaunted defense for each loss, but I won't, because it's a TEAM game, and some here aren't giving Nagy near enough credit for what he did that year. First, he took an offense that was 30th in yards and 29th in points the year before and improved them to 21st in yards and 9th in points! That's a substantial improvement. But he did even more than that. He made football fun again. Remember Club Dub? How about Hicks scoring? The other defensive players playing on offense and Fun Fridays? That team was FUN! Can anybody credibly argue that John Fox's team could have done near as well, even with Fangio and Mack?

But it's not only that year. Some argue Nagy is a .500 coach without that one year. Yeah, so? Often you can tell more about a team when they suffer through adversity. That's the case here. In 2019, the Bears slipped to 3-5 and in 2020, they fell to 5-7. In both cases it would have been real easy to lose the team. Nagy didn't. In both cases they improved to 8-8 and in the later, they made the playoffs. Those 8-8 seasons aren't something to denigrate. They're something to be encouraged by. There are a great many coaches who would have lost those locker rooms.

Remember too what Andy Reid said. I assume that most here respect Reid as a coach. Remember that he said that Nagy was the best assistant he'd EVER had and would make a great coach. Remember also that Reid gave up his play calling duties to Nagy in Nagy's last season in KC. So I also take a lot of encouragement from that too.

Having said that though, I do have my problems with Nagy, many of which have been mentioned here. The biggest problem I have is his willingness to neglect the run. Remember that season that he took over the play calls, that was also the season that they lost to the Titans in the playoffs. During that game, the Chiefs took a 21-0 halftime lead and ran 6 times for 24 yards and a score in the first quarter alone. They only ran 5 times the rest of the game and lost 22-21. Why abandon the run game, especially after they lost Kelcie?

Associated with this is Nagy's apparent refusal to "ride the horse." This one really irks me. It's what doomed Jordan Howard in his offense. If a guy is on a roll, like in basketball, you ride him. Nagy almost refuses to do that. I've seen Howard rip of a couple of 15 yard runs in succession and then inexplicably Nagy pulled him from the game and ran Cohen. WTF?! I've seen him do something similar with Montgomery. I don't know why, but it drives me up the wall. And it's not like he then uses them as a decoy. He removes them from the equation altogether by taking them out of the game. Sometimes, football is real easy--ride the horse until they stop him.

Another thing that irked me is that he seemed to try to adapt players to his system rather than doing what they do best. That's what the problem was with Trubisky. As much as Nagy has the whole "be you" think going on, it didn't seem like he let Trubs be Trubs. It seemed like he tried to force him to be something he's not. I'm not so much irked by this now, because at this point, I think that Nagy has the guys who are more compatible with his system so it shouldn't be an issue.

Finally, I don't like how he settles for distance. By this I mean, I don't like how he settles for a Field Goal at a certain distance and runs the clock out so they can kick from there. He did that against the Giants and it cost him. I think if you have time, you should use it to get closer unless you're looking at a 30 yarder or less. But that's just me.

So yeah, I have my gripes about Nagy, but I also think he has a lot of unexplored potential, and so far he's managed the team in such a way that he hasn't lost the locker room. That's critical I think. I do think that Nagy can be a great coach. He just has to make sure he doesn't out think himself. Football can be easy. When it is, ride it.

That's my take at least.

[Yogi da Bear]

Here is my concern with Nagy:
It is almost inevitable that Fields will be good at some things that don't readily fit Nagy's schemes.
Conversely, he may not be quite good (at least at first) at things Nagy wants his offense to do.
Is Nagy flexible enough to build his system around Field's strengths or will he insist on square peg/round hole?
I do not pretend to have any inside baseball like statistics here, just a general observation that Nagy appears a bit rigid when circumstances challenged his assumptions.

I'm not so much concerned with it because I think Fields is more suited to Nagy's system. Also, I was really encouraged that he went back to Daly at Ohio State and found out what Fields like to and was good at and is trying to incorporate those plays in his system. Remember that Mahomes said one of the benefits of him sitting in KC was that he ran the scout team and by doing so, they were able to identify those plays from those other teams' offenses he ran that he like and they incorporated them. I just wish Nagy would have done something similar with Trubisky. I think maybe he's actually learned something about that experience now though. It seems that way.

[dplank]

IIRC the Bears were 9th in scoring that year but 21st in yards. Logic would clearly dictate that the reason for this is because the offense generally didn't have that far to go, but that the they did their job and complimented the defensive and/or special teams effort with scores. I mean, the offense scored like 45 TDs. I'm not going to hold it against them that they didn't have far to go... I don't know how that can be a knock. They did exactly what they were supposed to do, it's not exactly their fault they didn't have a bunch of 80 yard scoring drives.

If you look at it in this context, I think in the case of the 2018 season, both units were pretty equally responsible for that record.

There's a big difference between holding it against them for converting on the layups they were given by the defense vs. granting them full credit for converting those layups and not acknowledging the gift they were granted with field position. In hoops, a sweet drive and dish by the PG is more impressive than the 7 footer who was handed the ball for an easy dunk. Similar logic here. Also, from my POV at least, I have ALWAYS coupled this thought with the fact that Nagy's zany red zone shit worked like a champ his first year, but the league caught up.

What Nagy has yet to prove is that his offense can score 45 TD's WITHOUT being given short field after short field. Like a basketball player creating his own shot instead of having to be setup all the time. That's just a different animal and what I want to see as a next step. Because we all know that 2018 defense, all those turnovers, you just can't count on that shit - you gotta make your own offense. I'm optimistic, but I totally get where the naysayers are coming from.

[dplank]

Here is my concern with Nagy:
It is almost inevitable that Fields will be good at some things that don't readily fit Nagy's schemes.
Conversely, he may not be quite good (at least at first) at things Nagy wants his offense to do.
Is Nagy flexible enough to build his system around Field's strengths or will he insist on square peg/round hole?
I do not pretend to have any inside baseball like statistics here, just a general observation that Nagy appears a bit rigid when circumstances challenged his assumptions.

I'm not so much concerned with it because I think Fields is more suited to Nagy's system. Also, I was really encouraged that he went back to Daly at Ohio State and found out what Fields like to and was good at and is trying to incorporate those plays in his system. Remember that Mahomes said one of the benefits of him sitting in KC was that he ran the scout team and by doing so, they were able to identify those plays from those other teams' offenses he ran that he like and they incorporated them. I just wish Nagy would have done something similar with Trubisky. I think maybe he's actually learned something about that experience now though. It seems that way.

Fox started Trubisky as a rookie, not Nagy. Was Nagy supposed to sit him year 2 as well? No way. He only has a 4 year contract, we don't have all the time in the world here.

[Yogi da Bear]

I'm not so much concerned with it because I think Fields is more suited to Nagy's system. Also, I was really encouraged that he went back to Daly at Ohio State and found out what Fields like to and was good at and is trying to incorporate those plays in his system. Remember that Mahomes said one of the benefits of him sitting in KC was that he ran the scout team and by doing so, they were able to identify those plays from those other teams' offenses he ran that he like and they incorporated them. I just wish Nagy would have done something similar with Trubisky. I think maybe he's actually learned something about that experience now though. It seems that way.

Fox started Trubisky as a rookie, not Nagy. Was Nagy supposed to sit him year 2 as well? No way. He only has a 4 year contract, we don't have all the time in the world here.

No, but he could have figured what Trubs did well and let him do it. He tried to make him a Pocket Deep Passer, and Trubs simply isn't that. Lazor figured it out with short dump offs and medium range throws. And he was allowed to run more. His sacks went way down in his last four games with us only getting one in each of them.

[TheWorldBreaker]

Fox started Trubisky as a rookie, not Nagy. Was Nagy supposed to sit him year 2 as well? No way. He only has a 4 year contract, we don't have all the time in the world here.

No, but he could have figured what Trubs did well and let him do it. He tried to make him a Pocket Deep Passer, and Trubs simply isn't that. Lazor figured it out with short dump offs and medium range throws. And he was allowed to run more. His sacks went way down in his last four games with us only getting one in each of them.

The competition also got worse and the offensive line improved at the end of the season.

You have to be able to throw in the pocket and hit open receivers, something he’s apparently still struggling with in Buffalo.

This criticism is so ridiculous, “Nagy is a bad coach because he wanted Trubisky to be able to throw from the pocket.” SMH

[G08]

I don't love Nagy as much as others here, I just don't care at all for the logic (actually, lack there of) behind arguments against him.

I sincerely hope he learned from his past mistakes, focuses on the run game, and for fuck's sake design your offense around the strengths of your QB and skill position players.

"I sincerely hope he learned from his past mistakes" then (before actually) you say "I just don't care at all for the logic (actually, lack there of) behind arguments against him."

You hope he's learned. Meaning he has been "lacking knowledge" or "not good at it". Then you rip on those of us who are NOT convinced he has learned, or can be better?

Please, explain that logic to my illogical mind.

tl;dr Don't be stubborn and force a round peg into a square hole, basically. He proved last season he can adapt (albeit once he had no choice). To try and discount what he did because of Vic Fangio and Khalil Mack is the illogical (and stupid) component.

[G08]

Fox started Trubisky as a rookie, not Nagy. Was Nagy supposed to sit him year 2 as well? No way. He only has a 4 year contract, we don't have all the time in the world here.

No, but he could have figured what Trubs did well and let him do it. He tried to make him a Pocket Deep Passer, and Trubs simply isn't that. Lazor figured it out with short dump offs and medium range throws. And he was allowed to run more. His sacks went way down in his last four games with us only getting one in each of them.

Yep. Nagy did him no favors (@The Grizzly One this is what I'm talking about regarding Nagy learning from his mistakes).

[Yogi da Bear]

No, but he could have figured what Trubs did well and let him do it. He tried to make him a Pocket Deep Passer, and Trubs simply isn't that. Lazor figured it out with short dump offs and medium range throws. And he was allowed to run more. His sacks went way down in his last four games with us only getting one in each of them.

The competition also got worse and the offensive line improved at the end of the season.

You have to be able to throw in the pocket and hit open receivers, something he’s apparently still struggling with in Buffalo.

This criticism is so ridiculous, “Nagy is a bad coach because he wanted Trubisky to be able to throw from the pocket.” SMH

You need to read more carefully. Notice that I didn't say that "Nagy is a bad coach because he wanted Trubisky to be able to throw from the pocket.” IN FACT, no where have I said that Nagy is a bad coach. PERIOD! I've been defending him. What I did say here was that Nagy's mistake was trying to make him a "Pocket DEEP Passer."

You can throw from the pocket without having your coach emphasizing that you throw deep. You can still throw dump offs and medium throws (which Trubisky is actually pretty good at) from the pocket. Lazor figured this out. Notice how he used Kmet after he took over the play calling:



Notice all the dump offs. Notice that NOTHING goes over 20 yards.

But it wasn't only Kmet he did this with. He also did it with Mooney. Look at all the dump offs to Mooney later in the season. Notice his shortened routes that he had him run versus what he did with Foles. And notice too that the one long shot from Trubs was off of a rollout.



And in 2018, Nagy had Trubs running nearly 5 times a game. In 2019 that went down to only 3.3 a game and continued to less than 3 a game in the first three games Nagy called plays for Trubs in '20 as he was trying to change him. Lazor than increased it up to over four a game when he took over. All of this kept Trubs sacks down to only 4 over the final 4 games of the season. That Nagy let Lazor do this is a testament to Nagy, but it's also a condemnation of how he treated him up until that point. In Nagy going to Daly to find out what Fields did well and which plays he liked shows me that perhaps Nagy has learned from his mistakes.

So you can stop shaking your head now. You look a little bit silly:

[The Marshall Plan]

IIRC the Bears were 9th in scoring that year but 21st in yards. Logic would clearly dictate that the reason for this is because the offense generally didn't have that far to go, but that the they did their job and complimented the defensive and/or special teams effort with scores. I mean, the offense scored like 45 TDs. I'm not going to hold it against them that they didn't have far to go... I don't know how that can be a knock. They did exactly what they were supposed to do, it's not exactly their fault they didn't have a bunch of 80 yard scoring drives.

If you look at it in this context, I think in the case of the 2018 season, both units were pretty equally responsible for that record.

Are you and G08 on a moped together going cross country to deliver someone their briefcase back that they left in your limo when you gave her a ride to the airport?

[Rusty Trombagent]

The competition also got worse and the offensive line improved at the end of the season.

You have to be able to throw in the pocket and hit open receivers, something he’s apparently still struggling with in Buffalo.

This criticism is so ridiculous, “Nagy is a bad coach because he wanted Trubisky to be able to throw from the pocket.” SMH

You need to read more carefully. Notice that I didn't say that "Nagy is a bad coach because he wanted Trubisky to be able to throw from the pocket.” IN FACT, no where have I said that Nagy is a bad coach. PERIOD! I've been defending him. What I did say here was that Nagy's mistake was trying to make him a "Pocket DEEP Passer."

You can throw from the pocket without having your coach emphasizing that you throw deep. You can still throw dump offs and medium throws (which Trubisky is actually pretty good at) from the pocket. Lazor figured this out. Notice how he used Kmet after he took over the play calling:



Notice all the dump offs. Notice that NOTHING goes over 20 yards.

But it wasn't only Kmet he did this with. He also did it with Mooney. Look at all the dump offs to Mooney later in the season. Notice his shortened routes that he had him run versus what he did with Foles. And notice too that the one long shot from Trubs was off of a rollout.



And in 2018, Nagy had Trubs running nearly 5 times a game. In 2019 that went down to only 3.3 a game and continued to less than 3 a game in the first three games Nagy called plays for Trubs in '20 as he was trying to change him. Lazor than increased it up to over four a game when he took over. All of this kept Trubs sacks down to only 4 over the final 4 games of the season. That Nagy let Lazor do this is a testament to Nagy, but it's also a condemnation of how he treated him up until that point. In Nagy going to Daly to find out what Fields did well and which plays he liked shows me that perhaps Nagy has learned from his mistakes.

So you can stop shaking your head now. You look a little bit silly:

This is absolute crazy talk. Off the rails!
Mitch frequently got his guys killed on short routes, sailing over their heads or throwing late/behind them. He was, in no real way, "actually pretty good at" dumps/medium passes any more than I would be if i lined up behind center.

Nagy's mistake is expecting Mitch to make the occasional deep pass? When our run game was getting murdered because opposing defenses knew that he couldnt hit anything deep and didnt have to respect his deep ball?

This is some Rashomon-level shit. We watched Bill Lazor simplify his offense as much as humanly possible against bad teams, who over the course of a few games were able to figure this out and shut it down. The few holdouts who still think that Nagy trying to run an NFL-level offense that utilizes the whole field is his ego run rampant are Japanese soldiers on Pacific islands refusing to believe the war has ended.

[video][/video]

[dplank]

I just think we hired Nagy to bring a modern high powered offense to Chicago. He should’ve adapted better when we didn’t have all the players he needed, but he has them now so unleash the dragon!

[HurricaneBear]

I just think we hired Nagy to bring a modern high powered offense to Chicago. He should’ve adapted better when we didn’t have all the players he needed, but he has them now so unleash the dragon!

How does he have the players now?

He has Allen Robinson whom I really like but Nagy's O is about speed and thats not Arobs strong suit.

Montgomery seems to be turning into a legit guy.

The next biggest threat on the team is either a second year former late round draft pick in Mooney, an old as dirt Graham, or a returning from ACL injury Cohen.

He then has a bunch of no name players or young unproven guys.

And not to mention a patch work line we all HOPE will be better but it hasn't proven anything yet.

Two journeymen QB's and a rookie QB.

And I am a HUGE Nagy fan as well as most of the young guys on this offense. But he most certainly DOES NOT have the players needed to run the offense he wants. We have made major steps towards it this offseason but that is all, steps towards where this team should have been a season or two ago.

[G08]

This is absolute crazy talk. Off the rails!
Mitch frequently got his guys killed on short routes, sailing over their heads or throwing late/behind them. He was, in no real way, "actually pretty good at" dumps/medium passes any more than I would be if i lined up behind center.

Nagy's mistake is expecting Mitch to make the occasional deep pass? When our run game was getting murdered because opposing defenses knew that he couldnt hit anything deep and didnt have to respect his deep ball?

This is some Rashomon-level shit. We watched Bill Lazor simplify his offense as much as humanly possible against bad teams, who over the course of a few games were able to figure this out and shut it down. The few holdouts who still think that Nagy trying to run an NFL-level offense that utilizes the whole field is his ego run rampant are Japanese soldiers on Pacific islands refusing to believe the war has ended.

[video][/video]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall guys frequently getting killed on short routes...

[HurricaneBear]

You need to read more carefully. Notice that I didn't say that "Nagy is a bad coach because he wanted Trubisky to be able to throw from the pocket.” IN FACT, no where have I said that Nagy is a bad coach. PERIOD! I've been defending him. What I did say here was that Nagy's mistake was trying to make him a "Pocket DEEP Passer."

You can throw from the pocket without having your coach emphasizing that you throw deep. You can still throw dump offs and medium throws (which Trubisky is actually pretty good at) from the pocket. Lazor figured this out. Notice how he used Kmet after he took over the play calling:



Notice all the dump offs. Notice that NOTHING goes over 20 yards.

But it wasn't only Kmet he did this with. He also did it with Mooney. Look at all the dump offs to Mooney later in the season. Notice his shortened routes that he had him run versus what he did with Foles. And notice too that the one long shot from Trubs was off of a rollout.



And in 2018, Nagy had Trubs running nearly 5 times a game. In 2019 that went down to only 3.3 a game and continued to less than 3 a game in the first three games Nagy called plays for Trubs in '20 as he was trying to change him. Lazor than increased it up to over four a game when he took over. All of this kept Trubs sacks down to only 4 over the final 4 games of the season. That Nagy let Lazor do this is a testament to Nagy, but it's also a condemnation of how he treated him up until that point. In Nagy going to Daly to find out what Fields did well and which plays he liked shows me that perhaps Nagy has learned from his mistakes.

So you can stop shaking your head now. You look a little bit silly:

This is absolute crazy talk. Off the rails!
Mitch frequently got his guys killed on short routes, sailing over their heads or throwing late/behind them. He was, in no real way, "actually pretty good at" dumps/medium passes any more than I would be if i lined up behind center.

Nagy's mistake is expecting Mitch to make the occasional deep pass? When our run game was getting murdered because opposing defenses knew that he couldnt hit anything deep and didnt have to respect his deep ball?

This is some Rashomon-level shit. We watched Bill Lazor simplify his offense as much as humanly possible against bad teams, who over the course of a few games were able to figure this out and shut it down. The few holdouts who still think that Nagy trying to run an NFL-level offense that utilizes the whole field is his ego run rampant are Japanese soldiers on Pacific islands refusing to believe the war has ended.

[video][/video]

i couldnt agree more! Some of the stuff i'm reading this offseason just blows my mind

[dplank]

[G08]

It's the dying days of the Pro-Trubisky / Anti-Trubisky movement. It's like a bowel movement that likely won't move until Training Camp starts.

[dplank]

How does he have the players now?

JMO, but look comparatively to what he's had since he's been our HC here.

Our OL should be at least as good as the 2018 OL, with potential to be much better in the run game. And will certainly be better than the line we fielded in 2019 and 2020.

Our RB's went from Howard/Cohen to Monty/Cohen/Williams - that's a net improvement, Howard wasn't a good fit and Monty is a stud.

Our WR's went from ARob coming off an ACL, Gabriel, Miller, as a rookie, Bellamy to ARob fully healthy, Mooney, Goodwin/Byrd for legit deep threats, Miller is WR5 on this team and he's a 3rd year player instead of a rookie. - Improvement

Our TE's went from Trey Burton and Adam Shaheen to Jimmy Graham and Cole Kmet - big improvement

Our QB's went from Mitch/Daniel to Fields/Dalton - massive, massive improvement

Not just starters either, but our depth is much better now than it was. Miller is WR5 instead of WR3, Josh friggin Bellamy was WR4 on that 2018 team. Damien Williams can start if Monty goes down and we don't have to play a gadget player out of position. Dalton is better than either Mitch or Daniel and I see Dalton as the fall back option to Fields. I'd take either Graham or Kmet over either Burton or Shaheen. I dunno, I'm bullish on the offense.

[Rusty Trombagent]

This is absolute crazy talk. Off the rails!
Mitch frequently got his guys killed on short routes, sailing over their heads or throwing late/behind them. He was, in no real way, "actually pretty good at" dumps/medium passes any more than I would be if i lined up behind center.

Nagy's mistake is expecting Mitch to make the occasional deep pass? When our run game was getting murdered because opposing defenses knew that he couldnt hit anything deep and didnt have to respect his deep ball?

This is some Rashomon-level shit. We watched Bill Lazor simplify his offense as much as humanly possible against bad teams, who over the course of a few games were able to figure this out and shut it down. The few holdouts who still think that Nagy trying to run an NFL-level offense that utilizes the whole field is his ego run rampant are Japanese soldiers on Pacific islands refusing to believe the war has ended.

[video][/video]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall guys frequently getting killed on short routes...

You really dont remember all the short routes where dudes had to stop and leap as high as they could and got lit up? You dont remember the game last season where Mooney got injured that started with him getting lit up in the flat doing exactly that?

It's why I'm convinced that Nagy never tried Gabriel in the slot and stubbornly kept him outside.

[Rusty Trombagent]

It's the dying days of the Pro-Trubisky / Anti-Trubisky movement. It's like a bowel movement that likely won't move until Training Camp starts.

It's the early days of the revisionist history movement.

[dplank]

It's the dying days of the Pro-Trubisky / Anti-Trubisky movement. It's like a bowel movement that likely won't move until Training Camp starts.