Nagy optimism

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dplank
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I’ve always liked Nagy the play designer, Nagy the person and Nagy the leader. Nagy the play caller has been rough since his rookie year.

Here we are in June, which is when my inner homer clock starts ticking, and I’m just so friggin excited to see our offense bust out this year. I think it happens and I think George’s patience with Pace/Nagy is about to be rewarded (against my poor advice I might add).

Our OL should finally not tank any hope for success. Jenkins and Daniels joining what became a serviceable unit late last year has real potential. Monty has emerged as a real threat that must be accounted for by defenses - he’s arrived. And with Williams/Cohen we have injury insurance. So with any semblance of a run game and I could see this offense just opening wide up. And we finally have a QB room that can exploit it! Both Dalton and Fields have nice deep throws and both set a significantly higher performance floor than what we’ve had. Then at WR, we got ARob back, Mooney and Kmet should improve in their second years, and I love the Byrd and Goodwin additions! Downfield pressure - real pressure.

I add all this up and think we are going to explode. That explosion Nagy kept saying was coming from Mitch is finally going to arrive. Maybe Week 2 lol, Rams D is loaded.
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We have the same opinion of Nagy. I think that he's a guy you'd play your ass off for and that he's intelligent. The problem is that he's more of an academic than an executor. The world can't function without academics, but I just don't think they should be coaching NFL teams.

There is a great opportunity for this team to be special.

We went 8-8 last year with no offense and a past his prime DC.

Now pretend for a minute that we had a QB, an OL and an effective DC. What are we? 12-4?

To me the whole thing hinges on the OL. If that sucks again it isn't going to matter about Fields or not. He can't be out there and get murdered every game if they can't block. Pace did make a very serious effort to upgrade the OL. It should be vastly improved. I still want The Guy on that line, but that isn't happening until next season realistically.

I really don't want any part of Andy Dalton. Nothing would make me happier than for Fields to soak up that playbook like a sponge, quickly learn to read NFL defenses, and that OL to show they can protect him.

Based on last year's record our schedule this year is tough but who knows.

Another thing is that if the Packers implode we don't need to go 12-4 to win the division. We can go 10-6.

To me, if we went 10-6 and win the division with a rookie QB, a rookie LT, and a rookie DC I'd be elated. How could you not be happy with that? That's also entirely possible.
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IMO, Nagy is best in Mike Tomlin type role. His ability to lead/motivate men and foster a team first environment is his strength....

Does he have a creative mind..yes..but sometimes it’s to his detriment.

The significant difference with our running game production when he handed over play calling is very telling to me. He’s over complicating things when the running game is involved and asking our guys to do things that are not realistic. Also, the struggles there also tell me his attention to detail could be lacking.

I cringe when I think of him almost bragging about his offense and that Mitch wouldn’t truly master it until year 4....That is not acceptable in this day and age yet he almost wore it as a badge of honor.

Now, all of this being said, I like Nagy. I think he’s a young coach that’s had some learning moments. This year, with a rare second crack at a potential franchise QB, will tell me a lot about his future as a head coach. Has he learned from his mistakes.....I’m betting yes
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Agree with all of this. I’d just caution against putting too much on that stretch where Lazor called plays. Nagy was still heavily involved. But mainly I say this because of who we were playing. Nagy always ran up points on the Lions, so I don’t make much of it when Lazor ran up points on them and Houston and a Vikings team that had quit. Bottom line, and Cutler just said this exact same thing, is it’s impossible to stick with the run when you are getting stuffed for no gains or losses. You just can’t do it. And when we played those terrible defenses, we had success running early so of course Lazor stuck with it - I believe Nagy would have also given the success.
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I think an important light came on for Nagy when he finally recognized that doing what he wanted to do was a lower priority than doing what his players could do best. But based on his retaking playcalling, I also think that Nagy is going to go right back to what he wants to do now that Dalton and Fields are here and his OL should be at least intact. It will certainly help if he can blend the two instead of playing either-or.
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Being the head cheerleader is a big part of a head coach's job. We've seen too much cuteness from Nagy since he was hired. It caught the league by surprise the first half of the 2018 season but other teams caught on and he hasn't been as successful calling plays since then. The Bears need to establish a viable offensive identity; hopefully Justin Fields can be the QB to do this.
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Nagy has a coaching record of 28-20.

Back out the 12-4 season which was due to a generational defense and Vic Fangio and we have 16-16.

He's a .500 coach. Nothing special.

Now in Nagy's defense he's had Mitch and Foles for his QBs.

Is this really the best we can do at the Head Coach position? Shit I hope not.

I wanted him gone after this season, but getting Fields bought him time. So what does he get now? Another 2 years?

Say for a moment that a prominent HC has a falling out with ownership or just wants a change of scenery. A name. Not some coordinator that we promote to HC like we've done since Ditka.

Why shouldn't we fire Nagy and hire that person? No, I don't have anyone in mind.
Last edited by The Marshall Plan on Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nagy optimism, I have little to none.


He's not so bad that you can't win with him (very few HCs are), but I'm skeptical of him becoming a net positive anytime soon.
I suspect getting fired and rethinking some things would probably be good for his development.
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cblaz11 wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:56 am I cringe when I think of him almost bragging about his offense and that Mitch wouldn’t truly master it until year 4....That is not acceptable in this day and age yet he almost wore it as a badge of honor.
I've been saying it forever... we run one of the most complicated systems in the NFL. It's a bitch early on but if your QB and skill position players can master it, the system is almost unstoppable.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:36 am Nagy has a coaching record of 28-20.
Yeah... you should have stopped right there.

Matt Nagy is 28-20 as the Head Coach of the Chicago Bears. He has taken this team to the playoffs 2 out of his 3 season in the NFL.


He's not without his flaws, but he's also young and relatively inexperienced in his role. The next two seasons should be enough for him to prove if he is the right guy for the job or not.

And, again, if he gets fired I am all for bringing Ryan Day in here.
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G08 wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:03 am
The Marshall Plan wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:36 am Nagy has a coaching record of 28-20.
Yeah... you should have stopped right there.

Matt Nagy is 28-20 as the Head Coach of the Chicago Bears. He has taken this team to the playoffs 2 out of his 3 season in the NFL.


He's not without his flaws, but he's also young and relatively inexperienced in his role. The next two seasons should be enough for him to prove if he is the right guy for the job or not.

And, again, if he gets fired I am all for bringing Ryan Day in here.
You can't have a credible discussion about Nagy's coaching record and completely disregard the impact of the Mack trade, Vic Fangio and a generational team defense in 2018.

When the initial sugar high of the Mack trade wore off and Fangio went to Denver the Bears became a consistent .500 team.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:37 am
G08 wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:03 am

Yeah... you should have stopped right there.

Matt Nagy is 28-20 as the Head Coach of the Chicago Bears. He has taken this team to the playoffs 2 out of his 3 season in the NFL.


He's not without his flaws, but he's also young and relatively inexperienced in his role. The next two seasons should be enough for him to prove if he is the right guy for the job or not.

And, again, if he gets fired I am all for bringing Ryan Day in here.
You can't have a credible discussion about Nagy's coaching record and completely disregard the impact of the Mack trade, Vic Fangio and a generational team defense in 2018.

When the initial sugar high of the Mack trade wore off and Fangio went to Denver the Bears became a consistent .500 team.
How does that make any sense? "Hey we can't talk about the players he coached or the coaching staff he assembled, but everything else is fair game."

Come on, that's garbage.
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I have no optimism when it comes to Nagy and won't until he demonstrates that he can succeed as the offensive play caller and de facto OC, a role he's clearly not willing to give up. I'm sick of hearing excuses. It's the RB not being the right fit, it's the TEs, it's the QB, it's the OL. A play caller's job is to maximise the productivity of the players at his disposal. It's also his job to make the right calls at the right time and Nagy's made a number of game losing decisions at critical junctures. He has a lot to prove.
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I'm clearly in the "No confidence" in Nagy group. But I hope you pro-Nagy guys are right. That's the best I can do.

I'm also not a Dalton believer. But the Future? I'm Pro-Pace...kinda.

Anyway, All I can do is root for Nagy and Dalton. But to believe in them? Only after they prove it.
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G08 wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:07 pm
The Marshall Plan wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:37 am

You can't have a credible discussion about Nagy's coaching record and completely disregard the impact of the Mack trade, Vic Fangio and a generational team defense in 2018.

When the initial sugar high of the Mack trade wore off and Fangio went to Denver the Bears became a consistent .500 team.
How does that make any sense? "Hey we can't talk about the players he coached or the coaching staff he assembled, but everything else is fair game."

Come on, that's garbage.
Nagy didn't trade for, or develop, Khalil Mack.
Nagy didn't hire Vic Fangio.

Why should he get any credit for that?
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:51 pm
G08 wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:07 pm

How does that make any sense? "Hey we can't talk about the players he coached or the coaching staff he assembled, but everything else is fair game."

Come on, that's garbage.
Nagy didn't trade for, or develop, Khalil Mack.
Nagy didn't hire Vic Fangio.

Why should he get any credit for that?
Nagy then had nothing to do with the majority of that roster.
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I choose to have optimism about his ability to deliver with upgraded offensive pieces, and also having learned a few important lessons. And hopefully a growing comfort with "collaborating" with the experienced offensive assistants he's been surrounded with by Pace.

Nagy is still a huge mystery in that we probably haven't seen a huge chunk of what he'd like to do. We know where he came from and the style he wants to play. We know he's gotten credit for creative and innovative play design. We've seen some things really work, even when they didn't work because the QB missed the pass or the WR let the ball go right through their hands. We know he's been challenged by having players that couldn't execute and a keystone cops Oline.

But then we've also heard and seen troubling things from players (Foles, Miller) that indicate a disconnect between practice and games and an detached decision-making in games that seem right up their with Marty Mornhinweg's "we'll take the wind" (ROFL). We've seen some stuff from him that expose how UNUSUALLY inexperienced he is as a HC... and apparently a scary combination of hands-on AND stubborn. He went from player position coach to HC, and hasn't handled all of that as well as we'd like. So yeah it's been a rough curve. The dunder-headed decisions need to stop, and his genius needs to show up on the field - significantly.

I think even with Fields and the new Oline Nagy is potentially in his last year. Pace has effectively taken away all of Nagy's excuse crutches - he has it all. He's got experienced QBs (actually 3 of the best QBs to EVER be on the Bears - all at once). He's got Vets and youth at all skill positions. I think Pace will even probably sign an experienced LT "just in case".

Nagy has literally no excuse for not succeeding this season. I really hope he does.
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G08 wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:11 pm
The Marshall Plan wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:51 pm

Nagy didn't trade for, or develop, Khalil Mack.
Nagy didn't hire Vic Fangio.

Why should he get any credit for that?
Nagy then had nothing to do with the majority of that roster.
The 2018 Bears had the 20th ranked offense. Another site had them at 21st.

Should Nagy be celebrated for that? He is / was the offensive guru. He sure as hell can't take credit for the defense.

That team went 12-4 because of Vic Fangio and Khalil Mack. It had very little to do with Nagy. If the Bears had even an average offense (say 15th), why couldn't they have gone 13-3 or 14-2? That's a first round bye. Or at least it would've been good enough to beat the Eagles.


https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bears ... %20scoring.

https://fantasyfootballers.org/2018-nfl ... nse-stats/
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IE wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:25 pm I choose to have optimism about his ability to deliver with upgraded offensive pieces, and also having learned a few important lessons. And hopefully a growing comfort with "collaborating" with the experienced offensive assistants he's been surrounded with by Pace.

Nagy is still a huge mystery in that we probably haven't seen a huge chunk of what he'd like to do. We know where he came from and the style he wants to play. We know he's gotten credit for creative and innovative play design. We've seen some things really work, even when they didn't work because the QB missed the pass or the WR let the ball go right through their hands. We know he's been challenged by having players that couldn't execute and a keystone cops Oline.

But then we've also heard and seen troubling things from players (Foles, Miller) that indicate a disconnect between practice and games and an detached decision-making in games that seem right up their with Marty Mornhinweg's "we'll take the wind" (ROFL). We've seen some stuff from him that expose how UNUSUALLY inexperienced he is as a HC... and apparently a scary combination of hands-on AND stubborn. He went from player position coach to HC, and hasn't handled all of that as well as we'd like. So yeah it's been a rough curve. The dunder-headed decisions need to stop, and his genius needs to show up on the field - significantly.

I think even with Fields and the new Oline Nagy is potentially in his last year. Pace has effectively taken away all of Nagy's excuse crutches - he has it all. He's got experienced QBs (actually 3 of the best QBs to EVER be on the Bears - all at once). He's got Vets and youth at all skill positions. I think Pace will even probably sign an experienced LT "just in case".

Nagy has literally no excuse for not succeeding this season. I really hope he does.
For the experienced LT....

That is EXACTLY what we need.

I hope we're able to find somebody like that this offseason, but who knows.

Next offseason we've got to #1 pay ARob, and then #2 sign a true high end anchor for that line. If that's an LT, nothing against Jenkins at all, but then Jenkins gets moved to RT whether he does a good job at LT or not. The best five guys plays. We've got our QB now, no more screwing around hoping the OL holds together with UDFAs, late round picks and glue.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:04 pm
G08 wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:11 pm

Nagy then had nothing to do with the majority of that roster.
The 2018 Bears had the 20th ranked offense. Another site had them at 21st.

Should Nagy be celebrated for that? He is / was the offensive guru. He sure as hell can't take credit for the defense.

That team went 12-4 because of Vic Fangio and Khalil Mack. It had very little to do with Nagy. If the Bears had even an average offense (say 15th), why couldn't they have gone 13-3 or 14-2? That's a first round bye. Or at least it would've been good enough to beat the Eagles.


https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bears ... %20scoring.

https://fantasyfootballers.org/2018-nfl ... nse-stats/
It’s definitely fair to diminish Nagys credit for 2018 IMO, that defense was special. Truly special. I dont fully credit Nagy or Trubisky, specifically on their W/L numbers. That said, Nagys been seriously hamstrung by an awful OL and really bad QB play. We’ve addressed both those things, so I’m starting to think Nagy just might finally get this thing going the way he envisioned. I’m willing to give him this year to prove he can do it. If not tho…..he gone. I don’t want to gift him a free pass this year because Fields is a rookie. Nope. He’s got what he needs to have a decent offense this year - show up or ship out IMO.

I’m rooting for him, think of the narrative on him if we bust out a 12-5 or something? He’d be very hot. We’re due, we’ve been eating ass from Green Bay for most of the last 30 years. We need to change the script. Nagy and Fields for an epic 3 TD run of dominant Bears football in the 2020’s LETS GO!!
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:04 pm
G08 wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:11 pm

Nagy then had nothing to do with the majority of that roster.
The 2018 Bears had the 20th ranked offense. Another site had them at 21st.

Should Nagy be celebrated for that? He is / was the offensive guru. He sure as hell can't take credit for the defense.

That team went 12-4 because of Vic Fangio and Khalil Mack. It had very little to do with Nagy. If the Bears had even an average offense (say 15th), why couldn't they have gone 13-3 or 14-2? That's a first round bye. Or at least it would've been good enough to beat the Eagles.


https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bears ... %20scoring.

https://fantasyfootballers.org/2018-nfl ... nse-stats/
Are you saying if Vic Fangio and Khalil Mack weren't there the team wouldn't have won 12 games? Jesus Christ, we won 5 games the season before with Vic Fangio as the defensive coordinator. So then, using your logic, Khalil Mack's addition is worth 7 more wins?

This nonsense hurts my brain.
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G08 wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:33 pm
The Marshall Plan wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:04 pm

The 2018 Bears had the 20th ranked offense. Another site had them at 21st.

Should Nagy be celebrated for that? He is / was the offensive guru. He sure as hell can't take credit for the defense.

That team went 12-4 because of Vic Fangio and Khalil Mack. It had very little to do with Nagy. If the Bears had even an average offense (say 15th), why couldn't they have gone 13-3 or 14-2? That's a first round bye. Or at least it would've been good enough to beat the Eagles.


https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bears ... %20scoring.

https://fantasyfootballers.org/2018-nfl ... nse-stats/
Are you saying if Vic Fangio and Khalil Mack weren't there the team wouldn't have won 12 games? Jesus Christ, we won 5 games the season before with Vic Fangio as the defensive coordinator. So then, using your logic, Khalil Mack's addition is worth 7 more wins?

This nonsense hurts my brain.
I'm not surprised your brain hurts. Aren't you the guy that died on that Mitch hill with the rest of them for two years and wrote term papers comparing Mitch to elite QBs? It isn't even so much that you guys were wrong about Mitch. It was the level of arrogance about it that's funny as hell. It reminds me of my sister-in-law's FaceBook page where she flexes about her dinner thinking she's a Tier 1 Operator or something because she had a steak.

They went 12-4.

In terms of points per game the Bears had the #1 defense with about 17.7 points per game.

They had the #20 or #21 offense.

I know you watched the games. What do you remember that season?

Mitch threw for 24 TDs and 12 INTs that year. He had 6 TDs and 0 INTs in the TB game. Back that out and you have Mitch throwing for 18 TDs and 12 INTs that year and you want to say that we won 12 games because of Nagy and his offensive wizardry?

Unless you want to give Nagy credit for the defense. Feel free to make that argument. That would be a hoot to read.

How about this?

Go ahead and allocate the wins. There were 12 of them. How many would you attribute to the #20 offense and how many would you give to the #1 defense with arguably the best or 2nd best DC in the game?
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dplank wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:46 pm
The Marshall Plan wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:04 pm

The 2018 Bears had the 20th ranked offense. Another site had them at 21st.

Should Nagy be celebrated for that? He is / was the offensive guru. He sure as hell can't take credit for the defense.

That team went 12-4 because of Vic Fangio and Khalil Mack. It had very little to do with Nagy. If the Bears had even an average offense (say 15th), why couldn't they have gone 13-3 or 14-2? That's a first round bye. Or at least it would've been good enough to beat the Eagles.


https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bears ... %20scoring.

https://fantasyfootballers.org/2018-nfl ... nse-stats/
It’s definitely fair to diminish Nagys credit for 2018 IMO, that defense was special. Truly special. I dont fully credit Nagy or Trubisky, specifically on their W/L numbers. That said, Nagys been seriously hamstrung by an awful OL and really bad QB play. We’ve addressed both those things, so I’m starting to think Nagy just might finally get this thing going the way he envisioned. I’m willing to give him this year to prove he can do it. If not tho…..he gone. I don’t want to gift him a free pass this year because Fields is a rookie. Nope. He’s got what he needs to have a decent offense this year - show up or ship out IMO.

I’m rooting for him, think of the narrative on him if we bust out a 12-5 or something? He’d be very hot. We’re due, we’ve been eating ass from Green Bay for most of the last 30 years. We need to change the script. Nagy and Fields for an epic 3 TD run of dominant Bears football in the 2020’s LETS GO!!
That's a fair assessment and credit to Pace for having the brass to trade up again for a QB and to finally take the OL seriously. Pace has his faults, but he does have a set of brass ones.

Nagy has had Mitch and Foles as his QBs and a joke for an OL for a couple of years. One could make a successful argument that the Bears are a .500 team the last two years because he hasn't been allowed (due to personnel limitations) to install the offense that he really wants. I will say that leaders adapt to the personnel they have, but yes I think that's a very fair and accurate stance.

The exciting thing is that now here we are. I'm convinced (could be meatball could be reality) that Fields is The Guy for QB. He's surrounded by a highly positive environment with Nagy and Flip, an improved OL, Lord Willing an improved defense, and a fanbase that already adores him without him ever taking a game snap yet. It's all there for Fields to be The Guy and to own this town for 15 years.

And yes 100% I want Nagy to be successful. He wears the orange and blue. Let's do this. Nothing would make me happier than if the Bears go 11-6 or better, get into the playoffs and win a game with our new QB, new and improved OL, and a true Nagy offense. I would be very pleased to admit that I was wrong about my initial assessment of Nagy.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:48 am
G08 wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:33 pm

Are you saying if Vic Fangio and Khalil Mack weren't there the team wouldn't have won 12 games? Jesus Christ, we won 5 games the season before with Vic Fangio as the defensive coordinator. So then, using your logic, Khalil Mack's addition is worth 7 more wins?

This nonsense hurts my brain.
I'm not surprised your brain hurts. Aren't you the guy that died on that Mitch hill with the rest of them for two years and wrote term papers comparing Mitch to elite QBs? It isn't even so much that you guys were wrong about Mitch. It was the level of arrogance about it that's funny as hell. It reminds me of my sister-in-law's FaceBook page where she flexes about her dinner thinking she's a Tier 1 Operator or something because she had a steak.

They went 12-4.

In terms of points per game the Bears had the #1 defense with about 17.7 points per game.

They had the #20 or #21 offense.

I know you watched the games. What do you remember that season?

Mitch threw for 24 TDs and 12 INTs that year. He had 6 TDs and 0 INTs in the TB game. Back that out and you have Mitch throwing for 18 TDs and 12 INTs that year and you want to say that we won 12 games because of Nagy and his offensive wizardry?

Unless you want to give Nagy credit for the defense. Feel free to make that argument. That would be a hoot to read.

How about this?

Go ahead and allocate the wins. There were 12 of them. How many would you attribute to the #20 offense and how many would you give to the #1 defense with arguably the best or 2nd best DC in the game?
What's the old adage?

Never argue with an idiot, they'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience :lol:

I think it's preposterous to allocate wins among the head coach, offensive coordinator and defensive coordinator. It's patently stupid.

By your take, Bill Belichick is a bad coach by going 7-9 last season. I mean, CLEARLY, Tom Brady should be allocated 99.99% of Belichick's win shares.

Mike Tomlin also is not a great coach and doesn't deserve his Super Bowl ring because he didn't call offensive or defensive plays early in his career, it was all Bruce Arians and Dick LeBeau.

Garbage take but I can't say I'm surprised.
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All this dick measuring that's been happening this offseason around here has been really disappointing. I'm hoping it's merely friendly ball-busting and nothing more. Lighten the hell up.

As far as Nagy goes, I like him as a coach and a dude. He's one of those guys who is probably going to be coaching high school and JV after his NFL career is over because he just can't stop loving being a coach.

His NFL record is admittedly something of a disappointment, but you can't solely lay it at his feet.

Trubisky and Foles were utter garbage. The greatest coaches of all time weren't going to salvage those guys. Mack's been consistently battling injury. The offensive line depth has been mostly dogshit/injured. Eddie Goldman sat out all last season. Hicks and Trevathan have missed significant time to injury. The kicking situation was a nightmare until last season.

And yes, Nagy's playcalling and Pace's roster building have all deeply contributed to the .500 stew that the team's been spooning out the last two years, but it's not so obvious that they're to blame. All are to blame.

We've been over the whole deal numerous times, to the point of being beyond exhausting, but if we're curdling optimism here, you could do infinitely worse than Matt Nagy. That's a dude who loves this shit, regardless if he's any good at it, and I respect and enjoy him for that.
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@UOK

You make a fair point. There's bigger fish to fry.

That being said, it's either flat out incorrect or just plain dishonest to ignore the impact of Fangio and the kick in the pants the Mack trade provided. That shows up in the 12-4 record and the subsequent 8-8 seasons since Fangio left for Denver.

Lots of people died on Mitch Hill. Some of them spectacularly like the first 10 minutes of Saving Private Ryan. Instead of either lying or insulting, just own it.

I think all of us have been on a hill like that before. Mine is probably Cutler.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:16 pm That being said, it's either flat out incorrect or just plain dishonest to ignore the impact of Fangio and the kick in the pants the Mack trade provided. That shows up in the 12-4 record and the subsequent 8-8 seasons since Fangio left for Denver.
I didn't intend to ignore Fangio and his departure, that was an oversight. Mack's first year on the Bears was a revelation, with the division/conference having little familiarity with him, and he was healthy to boot. Health and gameplanning, in addition to Fangio's heading west, has hobbled things for sure.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:16 pm
Lots of people died on Mitch Hill. Some of them spectacularly like the first 10 minutes of Saving Private Ryan. Instead of either lying or insulting, just own it.
Amen to that
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:16 pm That being said, it's either flat out incorrect or just plain dishonest to ignore the impact of Fangio and the kick in the pants the Mack trade provided. That shows up in the 12-4 record and the subsequent 8-8 seasons since Fangio left for Denver.

Lots of people died on Mitch Hill. Some of them spectacularly like the first 10 minutes of Saving Private Ryan. Instead of either lying or insulting, just own it.

I think all of us have been on a hill like that before. Mine is probably Cutler.
Nobody is ignoring it though, if anything you are doing the polar opposite in taking credit away from the head coach because of the DC and Mack. Keep in mind that Nagy (along with Pace) convinced Vic Fangio to return even after he interviewed for the head coaching job and was passed.

Has Fangio's defenses been elite in Denver? Why isn't he as impactful there?
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If we just come back to the premise here...Nagy has been saddled with poor personnel to run his offense to date. Plus, it takes a few years for this type of offense to get rolling. So now that he's going into Year 4, with both an upgraded OL and QB room, I'm optimistic that he can finally deliver on his promise of bringing a modern, explosive offense to Chicago.

This was supposed to be a happy thread. :?
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