Bears talked to Greg Olsen during 2020 offseason

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Came across this article where Greg Olsen says Nagy talked to him extensively before the start of the 2020 season:

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bears ... mmy-graham

Based on the stats in the article, it looks like the Bears made the right decision but I just thought it was interesting. I was really excited when we had a "reunion" with Marty Booker and would have been just as excited if they had brought back Olsen.
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There's still a chance. Bears are making a run and Graham gets dinged. So Olsen comes out of retirement to join the Bears mid-season, and Olsen puts paid to all the lamenting around his trade with a Bear Superbowl ring.
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Yeah, they made the right call.
But it's too bad they couldn't communicate more honestly and effectively.
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Greg Olsen (from a few years ago) is the TE the Bears need, but not the one they deserve.
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Considering this in context with another thread, Greg Olsen is the poster boy argument against allowing a coach to dump talent that doesn't fit "his system" rather than trying to accommodate and incorporate that talent within his system. What Mike Martz did with Greg Olsen was criminal stupidity. It broke up the best receiving relationship Cutler had at the time. All because Martz didn't believe in tight ends. So first he neutered him, then he dumped him, then he got himself fired, then Olsen went on to become an All Pro TE, and all we got was a post card in the form of a third round pick. :frustrated:
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Yogi da Bear wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:41 am Considering this in context with another thread, Greg Olsen is the poster boy argument against allowing a coach to dump talent that doesn't fit "his system" rather than trying to accommodate and incorporate that talent within his system. What Mike Martz did with Greg Olsen was criminal stupidity. It broke up the best receiving relationship Cutler had at the time. All because Martz didn't believe in tight ends. So first he neutered him, then he dumped him, then he got himself fired, then Olsen went on to become an All Pro TE, and all we got was a post card in the form of a third round pick. :frustrated:
YDB - It's apples:oranges. Olsen had shown signs of good talent - that he could play. The other player you're using as analogy had shown signs of having little talent.

I regret with hindsight being "OK" with Olsen's departure. And if he hadn't become what he became then the story would be different. Olsen was good not great for the Bears. He got really good for the Panthers in a system that was friendly to him - but certainly not designed FOR him in any way (more apples:oranges). I admit excitement over Martz and the prospect of finally having a modern NFL offense with players that could execute it sold me on the change at the time. The excitement was rightful - if Martz could produce Kurt Warner type performance with Cutler than it would have been fine to lose Olsen. It just failed.

I'm still excited about the prospect of the Bears finally having a modern NFL offense with players who can execute it. Please stop the desperate clingy defense of a player who isn't worthy of the comparisons you're making.
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Yogi da Bear wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:41 am Considering this in context with another thread, Greg Olsen is the poster boy argument against allowing a coach to dump talent that doesn't fit "his system" rather than trying to accommodate and incorporate that talent within his system. What Mike Martz did with Greg Olsen was criminal stupidity. It broke up the best receiving relationship Cutler had at the time. All because Martz didn't believe in tight ends. So first he neutered him, then he dumped him, then he got himself fired, then Olsen went on to become an All Pro TE, and all we got was a post card in the form of a third round pick. :frustrated:
This is a walk-off homerun.

You ALWAYS scheme to the abilities of your players, not the other way around.

Well done, sir :clap:
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G08 wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:06 am
Yogi da Bear wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:41 am Considering this in context with another thread, Greg Olsen is the poster boy argument against allowing a coach to dump talent that doesn't fit "his system" rather than trying to accommodate and incorporate that talent within his system. What Mike Martz did with Greg Olsen was criminal stupidity. It broke up the best receiving relationship Cutler had at the time. All because Martz didn't believe in tight ends. So first he neutered him, then he dumped him, then he got himself fired, then Olsen went on to become an All Pro TE, and all we got was a post card in the form of a third round pick. :frustrated:
This is a walk-off homerun.

You ALWAYS scheme to the abilities of your players, not the other way around.

Well done, sir :clap:
Seconded. :thumbsup:
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IE wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:13 am
Yogi da Bear wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:41 am Considering this in context with another thread, Greg Olsen is the poster boy argument against allowing a coach to dump talent that doesn't fit "his system" rather than trying to accommodate and incorporate that talent within his system. What Mike Martz did with Greg Olsen was criminal stupidity. It broke up the best receiving relationship Cutler had at the time. All because Martz didn't believe in tight ends. So first he neutered him, then he dumped him, then he got himself fired, then Olsen went on to become an All Pro TE, and all we got was a post card in the form of a third round pick. :frustrated:
YDB - It's apples:oranges. Olsen had shown signs of good talent - that he could play. The other player you're using as analogy had shown signs of having little talent.

I regret with hindsight being "OK" with Olsen's departure. And if he hadn't become what he became then the story would be different. Olsen was good not great for the Bears. He got really good for the Panthers in a system that was friendly to him - but certainly not designed FOR him in any way (more apples:oranges). I admit excitement over Martz and the prospect of finally having a modern NFL offense with players that could execute it sold me on the change at the time. The excitement was rightful - if Martz could produce Kurt Warner type performance with Cutler than it would have been fine to lose Olsen. It just failed.

I'm still excited about the prospect of the Bears finally having a modern NFL offense with players who can execute it. Please stop the desperate clingy defense of a player who isn't worthy of the comparisons you're making.
This is demonstrably false. In his second season, Olsen led the team in TD receptions and was second in receptions to Forte with 54, despite only starting 7 games. In his third year, he led the team in both receptions with 61 and TDs with 8, and he was Cutler's relief valve and probably his best friend on the team. When Martz took over, he inexplicably limited Olsen's shots (from 108 to 70) and he only caught 41 balls. By his second season in Carolina, he caught 69, 73, 84, 77, and 80 balls consecutively. He was developing quickly with the Bears until Martz neutered him and traded him and then lost his own job. HE is the perfect example of why you don't just purge players that a coach refuses to adapt to his system. We got to the Conference Championship Game with Olsen, why on earth would Jerry Angelo consent for him to be traded for a fucking 3rd round draft pick? It was completely stupid.

And I haven't compared Olsen to anybody. I simply said that Olsen is the Poster Boy for dumping a player an existing coach refuses to adapt to his system.
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Yogi man, you gotta learn to read more carefully. You do this a lot. He clearly said that Olsen had shown that he was a good player.

I’m still waiting for one of you others to show me how Andy Reid made major adjustments to his system to fit Patrick Mahomes or highlight some Texas Tech concepts in KCs offense. Or show me how Phil Jackson dumped his triangle offense to suit Jordan, Rodman, Kobe, or Shaq. What will happen? Nothing, because there’s no refuting this point, and yet it’ll come up again and again as if this wasn’t already thoroughly debunked. Frustrating lack of accountability.

This ongoing need to blame everyone but Mitch for his failure here is simply bizarre. The problem here is that Mitch can’t play, Jesus h get over it people
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That's like a meme.

Me: "I haven't compared anybody"
Also me: "He's the poster boy for..."
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I mean....we've already established the middle ground here, why is this still a thing?

Should a coach tweak his game within his system to accommodate the talent he has on his roster? YES. That's called being smart.
Should a coach abandon his whole offense to accommodate one kid on the short bus? NO. That's called being stupid.

We all agree coaches should do smart things and not stupid things. Nagy could have done a little more to help Mitch, but Mitch appears to simply lack the talent needed to be successful even had Nagy done everything right. Middle ground, End of discussion. For the love of God please, end of discussion.
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Lol at the comparison between Olsen and Mitch and tailoring the system.

Greg Olsen had talent.

Mitch sucks.
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I’m channeling my inner wab here and would really like it if every thread didn’t turn into some Trubisky vs Nagy turd a thon.
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dplank wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:00 pm I’m channeling my inner wab here and would really like it if every thread didn’t turn into some Trubisky vs Nagy turd a thon.
... you were the first person to mention Mitch in this thread, followed by TaMPon.
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C'mon yall.
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G08 wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:08 pm
dplank wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:00 pm I’m channeling my inner wab here and would really like it if every thread didn’t turn into some Trubisky vs Nagy turd a thon.
... you were the first person to mention Mitch in this thread, followed by TaMPon.
Cmon now. You know damn well what you’re comments were about, this is flat out disappointing. Man up. That’s some femme shit right there.
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dplank wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:12 pm
G08 wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:08 pm

... you were the first person to mention Mitch in this thread, followed by TaMPon.
Cmon now. You know damn well what you’re comments were about, this is flat out disappointing. Man up. That’s some femme shit right there.
Dude, it wasn't. If it was, I would have said so. Not sure why you're trying so hard to read between lines that don't exist... THAT is some "femme shit" my frendt.


Here, I'll try again: Coaches should always scheme to the talents of their players, not the other way around (DISCLAIMER: THIS IS NOT ABOUT MITCH TRUBISKY).

Is that better :lol:
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Greg Olsen Jokes the Bears Treated Him Like a Cheap Date Last Offseason

https://www.bleachernation.com/bears/20 ... offseason/
“I talked to Matt Nagy – he called me with the GM [Ryan Pace] and we talked for like 45 minutes on the phone. They’re asking me questions about routes and ‘what kind of systems you played in, would you be comfortable with code words versus digits, what did you do on your backside routes, what was your leverage reads?’ All that stuff.

So I hang up and I say to my wife, ‘babe, I think they really like me and want to sign me! How cool would it be if life came full circle and we could finish up my career in Chicago? That would be so sick.'”

“When they signed Jimmy (Graham), I was like those guys — they used me. They took me on a really cheap date, picked my brain for everything I knew, and just gave me an Uber and sent me on my way.”
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G08 wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:18 pm
dplank wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:12 pm

Cmon now. You know damn well what you’re comments were about, this is flat out disappointing. Man up. That’s some femme shit right there.
Dude, it wasn't. If it was, I would have said so. Not sure why you're trying so hard to read between lines that don't exist... THAT is some "femme shit" my frendt.


Here, I'll try again: Coaches should always scheme to the talents of their players, not the other way around (DISCLAIMER: THIS IS NOT ABOUT MITCH TRUBISKY).

Is that better :lol:
Ok I’ll take you’re word for it.

You’re wrong on the other bit though. They should tweak, not abandon their scheme. Or maybe ask Phil Jackson for his 50 rings back lol. Still waiting for that point to be addressed
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G08 wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:08 pm
dplank wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:00 pm I’m channeling my inner wab here and would really like it if every thread didn’t turn into some Trubisky vs Nagy turd a thon.
... you were the first person to mention Mitch in this thread, followed by TaMPon.
I wear that name with a badge of pride.

At least a woman’s period is over in like a week.

That simple bumpkin Mitch sucked for two years.

I cannot understand what is to be gained from continuing to defend him.

Is your handle related to Rex Grossman because that would explain a lot?
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dplank wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:30 pm
G08 wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:18 pm

Dude, it wasn't. If it was, I would have said so. Not sure why you're trying so hard to read between lines that don't exist... THAT is some "femme shit" my frendt.


Here, I'll try again: Coaches should always scheme to the talents of their players, not the other way around (DISCLAIMER: THIS IS NOT ABOUT MITCH TRUBISKY).

Is that better :lol:
Ok I’ll take you’re word for it.

You’re wrong on the other bit though. They should tweak, not abandon their scheme. Or maybe ask Phil Jackson for his 50 rings back lol. Still waiting for that point to be addressed
You're comparing two completely different sports, plank.

Phil did try implementing his triangle offense in New York when he was hired as their President, and that flamed out magnificently. A lot of people disregard that a big part of Phil's legacy is due to having generational talent at his disposal (Jordan, Pippen, Bryant, O'Neal, etc).
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Walsh/Seifart transitioned from Montana to Young, two very different players, yet still ran their west coast offense. They didn’t change it when Young took over. Andy Reid still runs his offense with Mahomes, whose a very different player then Alex Smith. They didn’t change the offense for Mahomes. Gary Kubiak runs his rushing attack the same, with great results, everywhere he goes - he doesn’t change his scheme he works to find players that fit it (one cut upfield runners and zone blockers).

Could go on and on and on. You don’t change an entire scheme because of one player, there’s 53 guys on the team not one. Bottom line is the player has to be competent or none of it matters.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:33 pm
G08 wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:08 pm

... you were the first person to mention Mitch in this thread, followed by TaMPon.
I wear that name with a badge of pride.

At least a woman’s period is over in like a week.

That simple bumpkin Mitch sucked for two years.

I cannot understand what is to be gained from continuing to defend him.

Is your handle related to Rex Grossman because that would explain a lot?
"Explain a lot" :lol:

I was a big, big fan of his dating back to his Florida days, especially under Spurrier. I was at the Florida Tennessee game in 2002 with some buddies, I think I was 20 at the time. Kid threw for 300+ and 3 TDs in an upset victory in the pouring rain. I remember leaving there thinking if Jim Miller couldn't stay healthy for us I'd love to draft him.

Torn ACL and shattered ankle in back-to-back seasons robbed him of whatever little athleticism he had in the pocket. Quickly learned that short QB + no athleticism to maneuver in the pocket = toast. Sucked... I remember reading that the Packers wanted to draft him and were pissed that we got him. Curious what would have happened if he landed there. Probably would have succeeded Favre and they would have never drafted Rodgers two years later, but I digress.

I'm glad you like the name.
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dplank wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:51 pm Walsh/Seifart transitioned from Montana to Young, two very different players, yet still ran their west coast offense. They didn’t change it when Young took over. Andy Reid still runs his offense with Mahomes, whose a very different player then Alex Smith. They didn’t change the offense for Mahomes. Gary Kubiak runs his rushing attack the same, with great results, everywhere he goes - he doesn’t change his scheme he works to find players that fit it (one cut upfield runners and zone blockers).

Could go on and on and on. You don’t change an entire scheme because of one player, there’s 53 guys on the team not one. Bottom line is the player has to be competent or none of it matters.
Montana and Young had wonderful rhythm with their feet, that's what made them excel in the West Coast offense. Bill Walsh hand-picked Steve Young because of his footwork, he literally selected him FOR his scheme, not the other way around.

If you look at Alex Smith's production under Andy Reid and compare it to Patrick Mahomes, you'll see that Reid has called a ton more deep shots with Mahomes. He's sending more guys vertical and taking kill shots because he has a QB that can do it. There's a reason why Mahomes' yards per attempt is 1.2 yards greater than Smith's was in the same system.

Gary Kubiak's system works for running backs that have vision, and again it's much easier to play RB in the NFL than it is to play QB.

You're not really making a convincing argument here and I feel like your focus is now on the "amount of scheming to a player's strengths a coach should do", which is really pointless at this juncture.

We agree that coaches should tailor their schemes to the strengths of their players, right? I'm comfortable leaving it at that.
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It's never really been about Olsen - the discussion about the Olsen trade. It's more about the frustration of continued failure.

The operational lesson from the Olsen trade is this: IF you're going to trade away a good player because you want to do certain things and you feel he doesn't fit... just don't fail. The lesson is not "tailor your team to a guy who averages 6 TDs and 800 yards/year (although at Greg and with Peak Cam he was that great safety valve that good TEs are, and racked up a lot of yards). The lesson is "don't fail" at what you DO try to do. You're doing it for a reason, and expect to be successful - do not fail.

Now with Nagy he's made some choices about who plays and who doesn't, and who fit and who didn't. He is definitely at that point where he can be fully and fairly measured. Message to Nagy: Don't fail. Because IF you do, the second guessing and "what ifs" will never end. You MUST succeed and get heads nodding that what you did to get there were all the right moves.
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If Grossman and Trubisky's nicknames were combined, it would make for a kind of cool handle: "Sex Biscuit" (Sex Cannon and Mr. Biscuit).

TMP - the abbreviated names on this site are actually my fault from way way back. IE stands for illinoiseric.
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G08 wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:03 pm
You're not really making a convincing argument here and I feel like your focus is now on the "amount of scheming to a player's strengths a coach should do", which is really pointless at this juncture.

We agree that coaches should tailor their schemes to the strengths of their players, right? I'm comfortable leaving it at that.
This has been my focus/point from the beginning, it hasn’t changed. You don’t abandon your entire philosophy for one player. I blame Pace for the Nagy/Mitch mismatch. One had to go, the answer was never that Nagy should’ve completely morphed his offense to something new, but he could have done a better job tweaking to help Mitch. I said that in my very first post on the subject. But he DID tweak to help Mitch (just think he could’ve done a little more), he also tried to GROW Mitch into a QB that could run a more sophisticated offense. The growth never materialized. I think we are good, but some who are suggesting a complete redo of the offense like the Ravens are nuts. They changed coaches to make that move. We could’ve changed coaches and run a Tennessee sorta fame to suit Mitch, but in my view there was more evidence of Nagys competence than Mitch’s so I’m happy with our choice. Keeping both and asking Nagy to reinvent himself is crazy talk.
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dplank wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:55 pm
G08 wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:03 pm
You're not really making a convincing argument here and I feel like your focus is now on the "amount of scheming to a player's strengths a coach should do", which is really pointless at this juncture.

We agree that coaches should tailor their schemes to the strengths of their players, right? I'm comfortable leaving it at that.
This has been my focus/point from the beginning, it hasn’t changed. You don’t abandon your entire philosophy for one player. I blame Pace for the Nagy/Mitch mismatch. One had to go, the answer was never that Nagy should’ve completely morphed his offense to something new, but he could have done a better job tweaking to help Mitch. I said that in my very first post on the subject. But he DID tweak to help Mitch (just think he could’ve done a little more), he also tried to GROW Mitch into a QB that could run a more sophisticated offense. The growth never materialized. I think we are good, but some who are suggesting a complete redo of the offense like the Ravens are nuts. They changed coaches to make that move. We could’ve changed coaches and run a Tennessee sorta fame to suit Mitch, but in my view there was more evidence of Nagys competence than Mitch’s so I’m happy with our choice. Keeping both and asking Nagy to reinvent himself is crazy talk.
"Abandoning your entire philosophy" is hyperbole; I will argue, however, that if there was one position where it could be acceptable to do so, it's the most important position in all of sports: Quarterback.

You mentioned Gary Kubiak earlier... did you see a ton of boots/waggles, a staple of his offense, when Peyton Manning was running it?

You didn't, so what's your argument there for "abandoning philosophy"? How foolish would Gary Kubiak have to be in trying to force Peyton Manning to be something he was not?
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So there’s been pages of argument when there was no actual disagreement? Lol. Because internet.

People lined up on sides then began arguing extremities.
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