Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

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IE wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:25 am We'll see. I do think we need to account for his athleticism. On one of the first plays JT criticized his feet he was not planted and seemed ready (looking at his feet) to be taking off at any split second. But then a split second before he threw the ball he did indeed plant his feet and had a pretty good base at the time when he threw. I'm not saying that his feet were good it is just not going to be like watching a 6'6" guy stand there with a great base for 2 mississippi.
I haven't seen the JT video, but your version checks out. I guess I rambled on about this in another thread, but Fields is so methodical in most other ways that I suspect he has a reason for getting his feet set so late. No way of knowing for sure, but it really looks like he has two modes: always ready and starting to throw. Read the field, choose your target, get your feet set, take that big windup, and throw. He'll need to ditch the slide rule and lab coat and simplify that process a bit, and he will. Some things about the NFL are just beyond our ken, but we all know what it's like to take a big step up and find ourselves having to learn how to learn about our new situation. I think that's where Fields is right now, and he's got the head and the attitude to make good on the challenge.
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G08 wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:19 amDo you guys really think our coaches have been designing a playbook for Fields since he was drafted? Because if true, that's almost 5 months of scheme development...
I do. Not that I'm a huge fan of our coaching staff, but Nagy and Lazor seem like exactly the kinds of guys who'd geek out over something like this.

Most of the plays he ran before Dalton got hurt seemed designed just to get him out there and to get some weird plays on film for other teams to worry about.

In a pinch, we almost had to go to a simplified playbook last week.

This week's the real proof.
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I mean if this IS true and these idiots actually have a plan in place, I mean Jesus Christ I'm over the fucking moon!

I'd expect to see a ton of what Fields liked from his Ohio State days (Nagy and Day are buddies), see more designed QB runs and RPOs, etc. It just makes too much sense, which is what gives me an overwhelming sense of anxiety that Nagy is going to fuck it up and try to ram "his offense" down Fields' throat.
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G08 wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:19 am This blurb from the Sun Times has me giddy if it's true:
Bears coaches have been designing a playbook for Justin Fields since he was drafted, drawing up and testing plays that best fit a man clocked as the second-fastest NFL Scouting Combine quarterback this century.

On Sunday, they’ll unveil an offense that will be worlds different than the one Andy Dalton ran. It figures to reside somewhere between the five option gimmicks Fields executed in Week 1 and the conservative, stagnant scheme he lumbered through in Week 2. The Bears will try to make Fields a passer first, a runner second and a weapon unlike anything the franchise has seen.
Do you guys really think our coaches have been designing a playbook for Fields since he was drafted? Because if true, that's almost 5 months of scheme development...
Yes, I do. I can't imagine them not having spent time identifying a sub-set of Nagy's full spectrum of concepts that can take best advantage of JF1's strengths (and probably avoid his weaknesses... hopefully). My question is can Nagy control himself and stick to that JF1 friendly universe of plays. Or will he go into mad scientist mode and start making calls that don't seem to consider situation and personnel as much as him trying to be "unpredictable" (which usually fails)?

I'm super-excited. I do think we'll see boots and moving pocket and option reads. One concern is how the Oline will do if the core of the game plan is quite different than what they've been practicing in their limited chance to gel. But we'll burn that bridge when we come to it.
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G08 wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:40 am I mean if this IS true and these idiots actually have a plan in place, I mean Jesus Christ I'm over the fucking moon!

I'd expect to see a ton of what Fields liked from his Ohio State days (Nagy and Day are buddies), see more designed QB runs and RPOs, etc. It just makes too much sense, which is what gives me an overwhelming sense of anxiety that Nagy is going to fuck it up and try to ram "his offense" down Fields' throat.
This is the guy Nagy wanted. Not the guy he inherited or the guy he had to settle for because the guy he inherited wasn't getting it done. I just can't fathom a situation where a coach would pound on a table for a player and then not do everything he could to maximize the talents of that player.

Whether it works or not is a completely different subject.
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wab wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:55 am
G08 wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:40 am I mean if this IS true and these idiots actually have a plan in place, I mean Jesus Christ I'm over the fucking moon!

I'd expect to see a ton of what Fields liked from his Ohio State days (Nagy and Day are buddies), see more designed QB runs and RPOs, etc. It just makes too much sense, which is what gives me an overwhelming sense of anxiety that Nagy is going to fuck it up and try to ram "his offense" down Fields' throat.
This is the guy Nagy wanted. Not the guy he inherited or the guy he had to settle for because the guy he inherited wasn't getting it done. I just can't fathom a situation where a coach would pound on a table for a player and then not do everything he could to maximize the talents of that player.
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Why would he want him if he also thought he needed to change his offense for him? Seems odd. You’d think he’d want a guy that could run his shit, no?

I’m hopeful that it’s true, we all are!! Maybe he simplifies a bit and gets good results from it and actually realizes that sometimes simpler is actually better!
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dplank wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:13 am Why would he want him if he also thought he needed to change his offense for him? Seems odd. You’d think he’d want a guy that could run his shit, no?

I’m hopeful that it’s true, we all are!! Maybe he simplifies a bit and gets good results from it and actually realizes that sometimes simpler is actually better!
This is my concern... what if "Nagy's offense" isn't what is best for Justin Fields.

Now, if he looked at the kid's talents and talked to his buddy Ryan Day and said "I can design an offense around this kid's talents" then that's an entirely different story.
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A few other things that sprang to mind:

Nagy and Fields are each pretty persnickety in their own ways, so we might not see the entire JF playbook this week--just the stuff they're most confident in.

The more you move Fields around, the more the line has to consider. If JF's ready for certain things but the line isn't, that might keep some concepts out of the game plan...and for understandable reasons.

The first Packers game would be the ideal time to unleash something really special and undocumented. Not sure that I'd get that cute with the whole thing, but Nagy and Pace alike are capable of thinking their ways up their own asses, so who knows?
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I feel very confident the Bears lucked into their QB of the future and can build around him and with him for long term success

I do not feel as confident that Nagy is the offensive "genius" to actually accomplish that

I like Nagy and I think he can be a very good head coach ... the players seem to like him as well and that type of natural camaraderie is a good thing ... but as the game day play caller, Nagy leaves a lot to be desired and that could be a big problem with the long term development of Fields especially if the game day calls have Fields scratching his head in the huddle the same way we are scratching our heads watching

I really want this to work rather than be yet another Bears QB situation in line with the abysmal past
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It isn't changing the offense if he focuses on a different part of the playbook that emphasize the strengths of the QB and attempt to hide weaknesses. Nagy even has I Formation in his playbook. My guess is everything including the kitchen sink is in his playbook. I'm not saying that's a good thing.
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IE wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:49 pm It isn't changing the offense if he focuses on a different part of the playbook that emphasize the strengths of the QB and attempt to hide weaknesses. Nagy even has I Formation in his playbook. My guess is everything including the kitchen sink is in his playbook. I'm not saying that's a good thing.
ah, but does he have T Formation in that playbook? :D
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Boris13c wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:57 pm
IE wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:49 pm It isn't changing the offense if he focuses on a different part of the playbook that emphasize the strengths of the QB and attempt to hide weaknesses. Nagy even has I Formation in his playbook. My guess is everything including the kitchen sink is in his playbook. I'm not saying that's a good thing.
ah, but does he have T Formation in that playbook? :D
Yes. Yes he does.

https://247sports.com/nfl/chicago-bears ... 121694581/
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HurricaneBear wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:20 pm
Boris13c wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:57 pm

ah, but does he have T Formation in that playbook? :D
Yes. Yes he does.

https://247sports.com/nfl/chicago-bears ... 121694581/
I'll never forget how thrilled I was to see that.
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IE wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:46 pm I'll never forget how thrilled I was to see that.
Dude, the whole nation was thrilled.
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wab wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:55 am
G08 wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:40 am I mean if this IS true and these idiots actually have a plan in place, I mean Jesus Christ I'm over the fucking moon!

I'd expect to see a ton of what Fields liked from his Ohio State days (Nagy and Day are buddies), see more designed QB runs and RPOs, etc. It just makes too much sense, which is what gives me an overwhelming sense of anxiety that Nagy is going to fuck it up and try to ram "his offense" down Fields' throat.
This is the guy Nagy wanted. Not the guy he inherited or the guy he had to settle for because the guy he inherited wasn't getting it done. I just can't fathom a situation where a coach would pound on a table for a player and then not do everything he could to maximize the talents of that player.

Whether it works or not is a completely different subject.
You don't even need to try to fathom it. You get to see with your own eyes now.
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KOP_Snake wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:12 pm
wab wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:55 am
This is the guy Nagy wanted. Not the guy he inherited or the guy he had to settle for because the guy he inherited wasn't getting it done. I just can't fathom a situation where a coach would pound on a table for a player and then not do everything he could to maximize the talents of that player.

Whether it works or not is a completely different subject.
You don't even need to try to fathom it. You get to see with your own eyes now.
I did, yes. Thank you.
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G08 wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:40 am I mean if this IS true and these idiots actually have a plan in place, I mean Jesus Christ I'm over the fucking moon!

I'd expect to see a ton of what Fields liked from his Ohio State days (Nagy and Day are buddies), see more designed QB runs and RPOs, etc. It just makes too much sense, which is what gives me an overwhelming sense of anxiety that Nagy is going to fuck it up and try to ram "his offense" down Fields' throat.
..and he did...
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docc wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:14 am
G08 wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:40 am I mean if this IS true and these idiots actually have a plan in place, I mean Jesus Christ I'm over the fucking moon!

I'd expect to see a ton of what Fields liked from his Ohio State days (Nagy and Day are buddies), see more designed QB runs and RPOs, etc. It just makes too much sense, which is what gives me an overwhelming sense of anxiety that Nagy is going to fuck it up and try to ram "his offense" down Fields' throat.
..and he did...
Yes that was quite a precise call there, G.
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Yep, I've seen this movie before.

100% inexcusable.
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JT on JF



Once again I'm mad at the play design issues more even than player execution issues. You can't lose on the chalkboard. You can't be sitting there on Tuesday night in your office and draw up shit that's gonna put your rookie in these situations. It's inexcusable. If you watch this video and want to hate on Robinson and Mooney for bad routes or Fields for being too indecisive or the oline for being... generally untalented... that's cool for you but I'm focused on the coaches that are making their mistakes in the comfort of their offices
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And here's one for all (*there are dozens of us* meme) the Nagy apologists



Kurt Warner cherry picks plays where guys were open and argues that Fields should make quick reads and throw the ball in 2 seconds like a veteran game manager
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Yeah... let's all blame Hudson, Vasquez and Hicks. Here's game time video of Lt. Nagy "coordinating"...

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crueltyabc wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:00 am And here's one for all (*there are dozens of us* meme) the Nagy apologists



Kurt Warner cherry picks plays where guys were open and argues that Fields should make quick reads and throw the ball in 2 seconds like a veteran game manager
He’s not cherry picking anything, his constructive criticism is entirely fair. Not being decisive and holding the ball too long was an issue in college—resulting in him taking over 50 sacks in college despite having a significant talent advantage and a better offensive line than he has with the Bears.

In preseason, he held the ball longer than any other QB.

It’s absolutely something he needs to work on if he’s going to become a franchise QB.

And the coach can have put out a bad game plan and not made effective adjustments and the offensive players can also have played poorly.
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And the coach can have put out a bad game plan and not made effective adjustments and the offensive players can also have played poorly.
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I think it's obvious that in order to have a game as bad as that Cleveland game, all pieces of the puzzle have to have completely failed. Nagy and Players - both. Every single person had to step on their own dicks in order to have that level of historical ineptitude. Including Fields in that group isn't heresy, it's just a fact. Fields sucked - it's OK to admit that.

That fact in no way provides any sort of proof point for the "don't start Fields" thinkers, just as a good performance wouldn't have provided any proof point for the "start Fields" thinkers. This isn't revisionist thinking, these thoughts were posted on the thread before the game was played (see the Jacob Infante Tweet that I posted as proof, he says exactly this). I'm not sure how the issue got conflated in some minds, but it did. And I think that's driving some people into some intellectual corners here.

My delirious excitement over Fields hasn't waned at all with that debacle. My frustration with Nagy has increased ten fold. This is because my expectations for a 4 year coach are vastly different than my expectations for a first start rookie - not because I want to win an argument on an internet board. If Fields still looks like that after 4 years, I'd turn on him too. It's about results. I'm a Bears fan and I want better results.
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IE wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:53 am Yeah... let's all blame Hudson, Vasquez and Hicks. Here's game time video of Lt. Nagy "coordinating"...

I'm fucking dying laughing right now.

Dude you're more right than you even realize.

There's that video of Foles on the sidelines effectively doing the Bill Paxton.

7 SECONDS? YOU WANT THE O-LINE TO BLOCK FOR 7 SECONDS?

HEY MAN, I DON'T WANT TO RAIN ON YOUR PARADE, BUT THEY'RE NOT GONNA BLOCK FOR 7 MILLISECONDS!

GARRETT AND CLOWNEY ARE GONNA COME IN HERE JUST LIKE THEY DID BEFORE!

GAME OVER MAN! GAME OVER!
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dplank wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:14 am My delirious excitement over Fields hasn't waned at all with that debacle.
Same here.

One thing that really hasn't been covered is how tough he is.

He kept going out there play after play. Getting his ass kicked. He didn't pull a Cutler. He didn't call people out.

He did what he could do with the tools at his disposal.
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He also, remarkably IMO, didn’t turn the ball over even once. With all that happening you’d think he’s fumble or toss an INT somewhere along the way.

Learning experience!
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I absolutely, totally love the kid right now. Sometime later next year I'll re-evaluate. It'll be real interesting with Nagy gone and someone like Day or Dabol having the offseason with the kid.

I suspect we'll see the "Monty Show" for the rest of this season. I don't think Lt. Nagy has the rope to abandon the run again. Maybe they'll use the TEs too. My not-so-low-key hope is they put some familiar faces out there with JF1 (e.g. James and Horsted). A guy can dream...
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