Nagy Hot Seat

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dplank wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:12 pm You fire him now (or after TGiving) to get the ball rolling on next year. Primarily finding a new HC, a process you can now start earlier than before. It’s not about feeling better, it’s about closure for the players and org and expeditiously moving to the next era of Bears football. It doesn’t pay to drag your feet, get going now and show urgency. Make the shift mentally to “the rest of this year is about developing for next year not saving Nagys job”.
I suspect that this organization's performance will be immediately and significantly improved when the biggest chunk of dead weight is jettisoned. If losing to Detroit on Thursday would close out the Nagy era, then I hope the Lions get their first win.

Ugh - its hard to believe Bears fandom has become so masochistic.
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dplank wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:12 pm You fire him now (or after TGiving) to get the ball rolling on next year. Primarily finding a new HC, a process you can now start earlier than before. It’s not about feeling better, it’s about closure for the players and org and expeditiously moving to the next era of Bears football. It doesn’t pay to drag your feet, get going now and show urgency. Make the shift mentally to “the rest of this year is about developing for next year not saving Nagys job”.
Yeah - I like that way of saying it: Closure and sense of urgency to get on with the future (that clearly doesn't have that guy in it).
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The Marshall Plan
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When Nagy does get fired I just don't know if the Bears HC job has the allure it once did.

Pros:

Soldier Fields
Big market original franchise
Monty
Mooney
Not much else

Cons:

OL
Defense in decline
Cap situation
A bad GM
The McCaskey family and their assorted idiocies and blunderings of HC interviews / hires

We're looking at a 2 or 3 year rebuild. Unless Pace takes the OL very seriously and hires the right HC I just don't see this team amounting to a hill of shit almost regardless of what Fields does.
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I think there’s a bigger allure - it’s almost a free shot.
You can’t really take us any lower than “Nagyball”.
And there’s Arlington
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:39 pm When Nagy does get fired I just don't know if the Bears HC job has the allure it once did.

Pros:

Soldier Fields
Big market original franchise
Monty
Mooney
Not much else

Cons:

OL
Defense in decline
Cap situation
A bad GM
The McCaskey family and their assorted idiocies and blunderings of HC interviews / hires

We're looking at a 2 or 3 year rebuild. Unless Pace takes the OL very seriously and hires the right HC I just don't see this team amounting to a hill of shit almost regardless of what Fields does.
The cap is mostly fine.

The OL probably improves tremendously with one piece.

There is no such thing as a 2 or 3 year rebuild if you've got the right QB.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:39 pm When Nagy does get fired I just don't know if the Bears HC job has the allure it once did.

Pros:

Soldier Fields
Big market original franchise
Monty
Mooney
Not much else

Cons:

OL
Defense in decline
Cap situation
A bad GM
The McCaskey family and their assorted idiocies and blunderings of HC interviews / hires

We're looking at a 2 or 3 year rebuild. Unless Pace takes the OL very seriously and hires the right HC I just don't see this team amounting to a hill of shit almost regardless of what Fields does.
The biggest negative by far is the organisation itself. Markets and history mean a heck of a lot less than the opportunity to be successful. The Bears' almost complete lack of success since before the millennium is going to factor into a coach's decision if he has another offer on the table.

On the other hand, to the pros you can add the quality of the Halas Hall facility following its major upgrade and refurbishment. It's up there with any in the NFL. Also the owners leave the coaches alone to do their jobs unlike some.

Another pro may be some young potential. Any of the likes of Borom, Herbert, Kmet, Horsted, Bars etc. might prove to be better than they've been allowed to be with Nagy in charge (plus Jenkins who might yet turn out to be what we all hoped). The problem is we just don't know which is why I want to see what they can do without Nagy, starting with the remaining games this year following Thanksgiving. Nagy's offense, personnel selection and usage, and input into game planning (which he went to great lengths to assure everybody he still had major input into after the offense looked notably better with Lazor making the calls) mean that we really don't know how good a lot of players might actually be. Maybe they'll turn out to be a bunch of JAGs but the fact that nobody not named Robinson has enjoyed any real success or much in the way of development in four years under Nagy has to leave us wondering.
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dplank wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:12 pm You fire him now (or after TGiving) to get the ball rolling on next year. Primarily finding a new HC, a process you can now start earlier than before. It’s not about feeling better, it’s about closure for the players and org and expeditiously moving to the next era of Bears football. It doesn’t pay to drag your feet, get going now and show urgency. Make the shift mentally to “the rest of this year is about developing for next year not saving Nagys job”.
I guess I'm in the middle on this debate. What Burl said resonates with me naturally. At the same time, I can see this argument as well. I'm just so done with Nagy, I guess I'll accept anything that makes him go away at this point.

Another side of this that isn't being emphasized is that the players hate losing because it can impact their earning potential. Dumping Nagy may rejuvenate the players, particularly the guys playing for their next contract, like Allen Robinson.
Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".

Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
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A report on Bears Wire that an overwhelming number of players have reached the top of their tolerance for Nagy and his coaching and want him gone sooner than later, that he's lost the locker room:
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-goo ... 43317.html
It could get real ugly before the end of the season if he isn't released. George may not relish that.
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If the Bears have a bad showing against the Lions, win or lose, Nagy has to go if McCaskey has any hope of preventing the team from becoming a laughing stock. The Bears are quitting on him. That was clear on Sunday. No one has any confidence in what he's doing. I think that Nagy is heavily influencing the game plan/play calling again and it's demoralizing the players.
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:18 pm If the Bears have a bad showing against the Lions, win or lose, Nagy has to go if McCaskey has any hope of preventing the team from becoming a laughing stock. The Bears are quitting on him. That was clear on Sunday. No one has any confidence in what he's doing. I think that Nagy is heavily influencing the game plan/play calling again and it's demoralizing the players.
Geesh, just because he completely wasted all the timeouts in the 2nd half....

https://twitter.com/Pickswise/status/14 ... 43317.html
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I don’t doubt it’s at least partially true, but ownership doesn’t take firings lightly. I would be shocked if Nagy was fired in-season, but if they lose to Detroit, they don’t have much of a choice.
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Me: I'd really like to see Adams or Perriman out there.
Cynical Bear fans: Perriman is a bust who has played on 5 teams - he can't play.
Me: But he played on 5 teams because he performed well and got increasingly better contracts until last year with the bad Jets. Why did they bother signing him to give him no chance?
Nagy: I have no use for Perriman.
CBF: He sucks. And I'm right because look - he's gone.
Bruce Arians: I think I'll sign Perriman to my championship team and have Tom Brady throw the ball to him 4 times on Monday night even though I have Evans, Godwin and Gronk out there.
Me: Man it seems like the Bear QBs are throwing some catchable balls that are just going off the fingertips of the Bears midget WRs.
Adams: You know those spectacular near-miss catches my boy Darnell is making? I'm 3 inches taller and with my larger wingspan I'm catching almost all of those. You saw me do it in preseason.
Nagy: I have no use for Adams and his 50% catch rate. I prefer Darnell catching 5 on 16 targets and our primary guy.
Me: Please kill me now.

Fire Nagy!
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Fuck Ryan Pace too

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The Cooler King wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:07 pm
I was waiting for this to start happening.
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wiNDycityfan wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:12 am Fuck Ryan Pace too

Not saying the cap picture is pretty OR that I'm an expert on it. But I know that list is highly misleading.

Cohen has an out - he's effectively gone. Cutting Graham and Danny T saves cap $$. Either Dalton or Foles will be gone. Dalton is a good team guy and seems good with JF1. I'd prefer Dalton stay & them restructure him to be the backup for '22-25. Not starter money - but he's definitely worth Chase Daniel money.
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wab wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:44 am
The Cooler King wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:07 pm
I was waiting for this to start happening.
Yep.
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I think Dalton is still going to want to start. I don't see him coming back, but I can see Foles staying one more season.
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wab wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:49 am I think Dalton is still going to want to start. I don't see him coming back, but I can see Foles staying one more season.
why wouldn't Foles stay? he is being paid handsomely to be a game day spectator, and when he does get another opportunity down the road he will be fully healthy to take advantage of it
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Dalton is a FA, Foles has one year left. So Foles will be back strictly for financial reasons. I watched some of the condensed game replay, Dalton looked good IMO. Always liked that guy and would've been happy with him as our starter if we didn't have Fields to develop. The offense seemed to pick up it's pace as soon as he came into the game, the ball was just coming out a tick faster and it made a big difference.

With a new staff highly likely to be here next year, who knows how Foles will fit with a new scheme. I still believe Foles can be a decent QB in the right situation, Nagy is not the right situation for any QB and certainly not Foles. But it is weird to have a lightening fast starter with a statue backup, ideally you'd like to have similar QB types so you don't have to completely change the offense if Fields gets hurt.
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Graham and Dalton are both out of contract, they just have dead cap hits that will have to be accounted for that are just short of $10M . Danny T will cost $6M to play or $9m to cut so he probably stays one more year. Then he is out of contract at the end of next year but will still cost us $6.5M in 2023. Shit like this is why Pace needs to go. We have over paid average talent and have no cap room because Pace likes to waste draft picks and over pay mediocre talent.
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I'm at the point now where I want to see what the Bears look like with a different head coach because it's going to take actual time to evaluate. Nagy is so far in over his head it's incredible, he might be the most self deluded coach in the league. It's like he's some kind of walking modern performative art piece dedicated to the difference between theory and practice. Yes, his play designs might be good enough to get scooped up by real NFL coaches like Sean Payton, but so what? He cannot evaluate personnel, he cannot design a game plan that plays to his team's strengths, he cannot instill discipline and have his team ready to play week in week out. The fish rots from the head down and for me that is never more true than it is with a football team.

The Bears need to start assessing what they actually have on their roster. I don't think they're a good team as constructed but you can't create a meaningful plan to improve the roster going forward until you actually know what they have today. Ryan Pace is a different discussion and while I wouldn't be disappointed with a full house cleaning I'm (currently) open to Pace being retained and having one more pick at head coach.

The season is for all intents and purposes, lost. The Bears should immediately fire Matt Nagy and start the process of figuring out where to go from here.
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I am not sure Nagy can be an OC anywhere after his shit show here. The shit rose to the top, now it is sinking.
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wab wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:49 am I think Dalton is still going to want to start. I don't see him coming back, but I can see Foles staying one more season.
He won't be back, but hell have a dead cap hit still.
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Z Bear wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:21 am Graham and Dalton are both out of contract, they just have dead cap hits that will have to be accounted for that are just short of $10M . Danny T will cost $6M to play or $9m to cut so he probably stays one more year. Then he is out of contract at the end of next year but will still cost us $6.5M in 2023. Shit like this is why Pace needs to go. We have over paid average talent and have no cap room because Pace likes to waste draft picks and over pay mediocre talent.
It is true that he's overpaid for old mediocre talent. I don't think that in itself is a fireable offense, but the sum of the parts ain't there either.

And the cap is just fine.
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mshu7 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:41 am
FYI, for anyone who isn't clicking through to the article. It states Nagy has already been informed of his pending termination, but is still coaching Thursday.

Good God if true. I'm normally warmer on George/Teddy than most because I recognize what their role is, but this is simple stuff. You don't have to be a football guy to get that is bad.
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Whatever people think of Nagy, this is incredibly inappropriate, shows a total lack of class, and frankly makes me ashamed as a fan.

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wab wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:14 pm Whatever people think of Nagy, this is incredibly inappropriate, shows a total lack of class, and frankly makes me ashamed as a fan.

It's not a nice thing. It's also, from my understanding, a HS fan section that did it and the school principal put out a release apologizing for the students and that they'll address with students. 17 year Olds are immature and dumb, unfortunately. Way different than if it were parents.
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Shame on those that chanted at his son’s football game.

At the end of the day, it’s still a game. Don’t traumatise a kid because you don’t like his dad.

I’m sad for Nagy and I try hard not to indulge in dehumanising him. It doesn’t make him an appropriate head coach for the bears though.
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