wab wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:31 am
I like this idea.
I need to see some more. I need to see what he does when OC's start trying to counter his creativity at the LoS. I want to see what he' going to do to fix the secondary. Is he going to start sitting players who aren't cutting it, or does the contract determine the playing priority? He's really smart, and his players seem to love him. I just need larger sample size.
BWN nailed it. Let's not over hype Desai so when he comes back down to earth a bit we go off the deep end thinking he's terrible. Patience with Desai, with Fields, with any young player or coach in the NFL. Once a guys been given several years(Like Nagy or on the flip side a McVay) and shows that's who he truly is that is when you should pass your judgements.
Otherwise you just go from week to week like a bipolar fan losing your mind in both directions. There's an easier way to be a fan than that. Trust me as a recovering bipolar fan
Maybe so, but my thinking was more that we will have a decision to make at the end of this year. If we dump Nagy which I think everyone here wants to happen, it may be tough to keep Desai. We pulled that rare feat off when Nagy kept Fangio, but it only lasted one year. So yea, it's super early and I'm really just tossing it out there for potential consideration at the end of the year - but I don't want to let a young talented coach like him walk. And the league right now seems to be taking more risks on very young HC's without a ton of experience.
dplank wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:36 am
Maybe so, but my thinking was more that we will have a decision to make at the end of this year. If we dump Nagy which I think everyone here wants to happen, it may be tough to keep Desai. We pulled that rare feat off when Nagy kept Fangio, but it only lasted one year. So yea, it's super early and I'm really just tossing it out there for potential consideration at the end of the year - but I don't want to let a young talented coach like him walk. And the league right now seems to be taking more risks on very young HC's without a ton of experience.
So we have another 11 games to get to know Sean Desai, the DC - that's not a bad position for the organization to be in - could be a helluva lot worse.
But Nagy has to go - we have a fairly strong consensus that his tenure has run its course with a less-than-satisfactory outcome.
For me the jury is still out on Pace - if has the moxie to fire Nagy at season's end and sign up Desai shortly thereafter, , then I am thinking we might just as well give our GM a short lease for another term.
The real test for Pace (and I am hoping Desai) is who they hire to run the offense.
There is a GM named Poles
Who has a clear set of goals
He’s rebuilt his team
So Bears’ fans can dream
Of winning some more Super Bowls
dplank wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:36 am
Maybe so, but my thinking was more that we will have a decision to make at the end of this year. If we dump Nagy which I think everyone here wants to happen, it may be tough to keep Desai. We pulled that rare feat off when Nagy kept Fangio, but it only lasted one year. So yea, it's super early and I'm really just tossing it out there for potential consideration at the end of the year - but I don't want to let a young talented coach like him walk. And the league right now seems to be taking more risks on very young HC's without a ton of experience.
We hired the hot young coordinator when we got Nagy. It doesn't always work out.
We hired the "proven" vet when we hired Fox. It doesn't always work out.
Maybe the Bears should just not hire a head coach? Of course they'd find a way to screw that up as well
dplank wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:24 pm
How about a first ever NFL move - no head coach! Two co-head coaches, Kellen Moore runs the O and Desai runs the D.
Let's add gms to that list as well. I've been trying to find a way to grade gm draft picks. I can say fairly certainly that average message board posters have about the same success rate as bear GMs.
Not sure why Pace considered Nagy so hot, he wasn't even allowed to call plays as KC's OC. The passing game is truly barely alive, Nagy has failed installing offense. Time for a change.
Grizzled wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:41 pm
Not sure why Pace considered Nagy so hot, he wasn't even allowed to call plays as KC's OC.
Yeah, I thought the pick was a shoulder-shrug "ok, sure" kind of thing at first. But when it came out that he had barely any playcalling experience, yikes.
I think someone from Shanahans tree is way better than Reids. Reid calls the plays! I love Desai SO far but its really silly to think about adding HC to his list of responsibilities! I dont really have much of anyone in mind but when Arizona , Cleveland and Buffalo hired their headcoaches and OCs I was a little EH
However they worked out.
I just really dont think Nagy or any coach we have on staff is the right one to develop Fields
dplank wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:24 pm
How about a first ever NFL move - no head coach! Two co-head coaches, Kellen Moore runs the O and Desai runs the D.
To go along with the pathetic average points scored per game during Nagy's tenure and the fact that the Bears have failed to score more than 20 points in nearly half his games (27/56), here's another nugget.
Other than Trubisky, the Bears under Nagy have started 4 quarterbacks. In all 8 games where the opposition scored 21 points or more, not one was a victory.
Trubisky's record was 5 wins and 12 defeats (including last year's playoff loss to the Saints and the Falcons game last year when Foles came off the bench to rally the team).
So basically if a team scores 21 points or more against Nagy's Bears then there's only a 20% chance the Bears win and they have yet to prove they can do so at all when starting any of the QBs currently on the roster.
Last year 25 teams averaged more than 21 points a game and only 3 defenses gave up fewer than 21 points a game. So far this year 22 teams are averaging over 21 points per game and 8 defenses are giving up fewer than 21 points a game . The Bears defense is 8th, conceding 20.8 points a game.
Basically the Bears defense better maintain their current level of play for Nagy's Bears to have any hope of finishing with a winning record.
Artbest wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:36 am
Interestingly (or not), Olin Kreutz and Lance Briggs were actually encouraged by what they saw in fields - particularly the second td drive which seemingly came out of nowhere after the offense had been left for dead.
On missing a wide open arob, I’d love to hear from an objective observer on that play. Imo, a veteran qb sees him and at least tries to get him the ball - Rodgers definitely does. Fields was fairly adamant about it otherwise after the game - saying he wasn’t in the read on the naked bootleg - that the d-lineman had come up field, effectively eliminating improvisation on the play. Nagy won’t reveal his thoughts - a former qb or coach, after watching the all 22, likely could give us the unvarnished truth.
All of this said, I wonder how fields would look with Brian Daboll designing and calling plays for him..,someone who took a very raw Josh Allen (who sucked as a rookie btw) and helped turn him into a star
I don't know how objective he is but this is what Dan Wiederer said about that play:
Still, as Bears coaches pointed out Monday, the progression of that play doesn’t take Fields to Robinson, who was running a backside post route. And by the time Fields recognized his top receiver open deep, he was hustling to evade fierce pressure from Kenny Clark. He loaded up to throw but feared taking a shot from behind and took off running. “Remember, when we’re all watching it on TV and from a bird’s-eye view, it looks really easy,” Nagy said. “But when you’re down there and you’ve got (defenders) running at you and people (moving in) different ways and then there’s a referee standing right next to A-Rob on the throw, (it’s hard).”
So what I take from that is he did see Robinson but his protection had broken down and he didn't have time to set his feet for a long accurate pass downfield.
I would venture to guess that if he had got hit as tried to make the throw and the ball was intercepted, there would be great wailing and gnashing of teeth with cries of Andy would have never have tried to make that throw.
Anyway the "expert" consensus seems to be that Fields showed growth on some plays/drives and looked like a lost rookie on others.
Which is sort of what we all expected. Right?
The secret is to work less as individuals and more as a team. As a coach, I play not my eleven best, but my best eleven.
~Knute Rockne
dplank wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:24 pm
How about a first ever NFL move - no head coach! Two co-head coaches, Kellen Moore runs the O and Desai runs the D.
I believe that was how it was in '85, when Ryan told Ditka to essentially F off, that he would take care of the D. And he did.
Desai may be a good HC someday, but he's still getting his feet wet being a coordinator. His talents may be more towards game planning and making in-game adjustments rather than team building/leadership.
San Francisco has always been my favorite booing city. I don't mean the people boo louder or longer, but there is a very special intimacy. Music, that's what it is to me. One time in Kezar Stadium they gave me a standing boo.
Happy to hear this POV thx. I figured it wasn’t as simple as him just blatantly missed a wide open ARob - the guy is never wide open lol.
The only thing that has me slightly discouraged is his athleticism. I didnt think opposing DL would be chasing him down from behind like I’ve seen a bunch of times now. He’s not as quick as I hoped, he has more “long speed” aka a Robert Smith type, which isn’t nearly as useful as quickness IMO.
This is just one observation, not to be extrapolated into anything more. I still love Fields.
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:49 pm
To go along with the pathetic average points scored per game during Nagy's tenure and the fact that the Bears have failed to score more than 20 points in nearly half his games (27/56), here's another nugget.
Other than Trubisky, the Bears under Nagy have started 4 quarterbacks. In all 8 games where the opposition scored 21 points or more, not one was a victory.
Trubisky's record was 5 wins and 12 defeats (including last year's playoff loss to the Saints and the Falcons game last year when Foles came off the bench to rally the team).
So basically if a team scores 21 points or more against Nagy's Bears then there's only a 20% chance the Bears win and they have yet to prove they can do so at all when starting any of the QBs currently on the roster.
Last year 25 teams averaged more than 21 points a game and only 3 defenses gave up fewer than 21 points a game. So far this year 22 teams are averaging over 21 points per game and 8 defenses are giving up fewer than 21 points a game . The Bears defense is 8th, conceding 20.8 points a game.
Basically the Bears defense better maintain their current level of play for Nagy's Bears to have any hope of finishing with a winning record.
Ugh.
I keep expecting (hoping for) a breakthrough of sorts with JF1 having a few more nice scoring drives in games... soon. It seems... close. I think we can't forget that those losses from this year are all serious superbowl contenders. Browns are dinged up but they should be back. Rams and Packers could easily represent the NFC. The Bears should be able to score 27-30 points a game, and with this defense that should do it. i just can't help thinking it is close. Nagy better make sure it is. If the offense keeps sputtering then like he said it all comes back to him. Lazor may be calling plays but he definitely isn't game-planning by himself.
2023 Chicago Bears... emerging from a long hibernation, and hungry!
dplank wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:20 am
Happy to hear this POV thx. I figured it wasn’t as simple as him just blatantly missed a wide open ARob - the guy is never wide open lol.
The only thing that has me slightly discouraged is his athleticism. I didnt think opposing DL would be chasing him down from behind like I’ve seen a bunch of times now. He’s not as quick as I hoped, he has more “long speed” aka a Robert Smith type, which isn’t nearly as useful as quickness IMO.
This is just one observation, not to be extrapolated into anything more. I still love Fields.
I love the kid too and also have been disappointed by this. But I do expect it to get better. He's more fast than shifty. I think he's really not expecting to be tripped from behind by these guys and it is a matter of him learning how much time he has, a slightly better angle, how to cut away, and when to dump it off or out of bounds. I think we'll see him caught less.
2023 Chicago Bears... emerging from a long hibernation, and hungry!
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:49 pm
To go along with the pathetic average points scored per game during Nagy's tenure and the fact that the Bears have failed to score more than 20 points in nearly half his games (27/56), here's another nugget.
Other than Trubisky, the Bears under Nagy have started 4 quarterbacks. In all 8 games where the opposition scored 21 points or more, not one was a victory.
Trubisky's record was 5 wins and 12 defeats (including last year's playoff loss to the Saints and the Falcons game last year when Foles came off the bench to rally the team).
So basically if a team scores 21 points or more against Nagy's Bears then there's only a 20% chance the Bears win and they have yet to prove they can do so at all when starting any of the QBs currently on the roster.
Last year 25 teams averaged more than 21 points a game and only 3 defenses gave up fewer than 21 points a game. So far this year 22 teams are averaging over 21 points per game and 8 defenses are giving up fewer than 21 points a game . The Bears defense is 8th, conceding 20.8 points a game.
Basically the Bears defense better maintain their current level of play for Nagy's Bears to have any hope of finishing with a winning record.
Ugh.
I keep expecting (hoping for) a breakthrough of sorts with JF1 having a few more nice scoring drives in games... soon. It seems... close. I think we can't forget that those losses from this year are all serious superbowl contenders. Browns are dinged up but they should be back. Rams and Packers could easily represent the NFC. The Bears should be able to score 27-30 points a game, and with this defense that should do it. i just can't help thinking it is close. Nagy better make sure it is. If the offense keeps sputtering then like he said it all comes back to him. Lazor may be calling plays but he definitely isn't game-planning by himself.
He’s not going to IE, he’s playing with a short deck. I kept waiting for Mitch to do the same, never happened except when we played the Lions. Nagys offense just sucks against any decent team, our weapons are below average on the whole and our OL is not catastrophic but poor, particularly in pass pro. Those 3 things aren’t going to be overcome by a QB not named Brady or Rodgers. Certainly not a rookie. Nagy needs to go. He’s failed too many QBs
I keep expecting (hoping for) a breakthrough of sorts with JF1 having a few more nice scoring drives in games... soon. It seems... close. I think we can't forget that those losses from this year are all serious superbowl contenders. Browns are dinged up but they should be back. Rams and Packers could easily represent the NFC. The Bears should be able to score 27-30 points a game, and with this defense that should do it. i just can't help thinking it is close. Nagy better make sure it is. If the offense keeps sputtering then like he said it all comes back to him. Lazor may be calling plays but he definitely isn't game-planning by himself.
He’s not going to IE, he’s playing with a short deck. I kept waiting for Mitch to do the same, never happened except when we played the Lions. Nagys offense just sucks against any decent team, our weapons are below average on the whole and our OL is not catastrophic but poor, particularly in pass pro. Those 3 things aren’t going to be overcome by a QB not named Brady or Rodgers. Certainly not a rookie. Nagy needs to go. He’s failed too many QBs
I fear you're right. It's fine, I guess. I'm sick of watching games and being happy in points and then in other points saying "what are they DOING?" (on offense).
2023 Chicago Bears... emerging from a long hibernation, and hungry!
I keep expecting (hoping for) a breakthrough of sorts with JF1 having a few more nice scoring drives in games... soon. It seems... close. I think we can't forget that those losses from this year are all serious superbowl contenders. Browns are dinged up but they should be back. Rams and Packers could easily represent the NFC. The Bears should be able to score 27-30 points a game, and with this defense that should do it. i just can't help thinking it is close. Nagy better make sure it is. If the offense keeps sputtering then like he said it all comes back to him. Lazor may be calling plays but he definitely isn't game-planning by himself.
He’s not going to IE, he’s playing with a short deck. I kept waiting for Mitch to do the same, never happened except when we played the Lions. Nagys offense just sucks against any decent team, our weapons are below average on the whole and our OL is not catastrophic but poor, particularly in pass pro. Those 3 things aren’t going to be overcome by a QB not named Brady or Rodgers. Certainly not a rookie. Nagy needs to go. He’s failed too many QBs
The WRs couldn't get seperation against 2nd/3rd string CBs for the Pack. The OL is getting beat like a drum on pass protecting. Fields is probably getting gun shy about getting hit so much. We don't want him to develop the David Carr syndrome. The Bears are in the illustrious company of the Jets, Miami, and Houston as not having put up 100 points in 6 games, this is totally unacceptable. The Bears are topnotch on the initial series of a game when plays are scripted but can't make adjustments afterwards. This points out 2 shortcomings of Nagy. I don't want to lose Desai but perhaps a new HC will pull a Fangio and would keep him.
He’s not going to IE, he’s playing with a short deck. I kept waiting for Mitch to do the same, never happened except when we played the Lions. Nagys offense just sucks against any decent team, our weapons are below average on the whole and our OL is not catastrophic but poor, particularly in pass pro. Those 3 things aren’t going to be overcome by a QB not named Brady or Rodgers. Certainly not a rookie. Nagy needs to go. He’s failed too many QBs
The WRs couldn't get seperation against 2nd/3rd string CBs for the Pack. The OL is getting beat like a drum on pass protecting. Fields is probably getting gun shy about getting hit so much. We don't want him to develop the David Carr syndrome. The Bears are in the illustrious company of the Jets, Miami, and Houston as not having put up 100 points in 6 games, this is totally unacceptable. The Bears are topnotch on the initial series of a game when plays are scripted but can't make adjustments afterwards. This points out 2 shortcomings of Nagy. I don't want to lose Desai but perhaps a new HC will pull a Fangio and would keep him.
People keep saying that the OL is getting beaten like a drum when it just isn't true. Yes, they got their asses kicked in Cleveland, but it's been pretty above board since then. IMO all but one sack in the Packers game was on Fields trying to scramble.
The WRs couldn't get seperation against 2nd/3rd string CBs for the Pack. The OL is getting beat like a drum on pass protecting. Fields is probably getting gun shy about getting hit so much. We don't want him to develop the David Carr syndrome. The Bears are in the illustrious company of the Jets, Miami, and Houston as not having put up 100 points in 6 games, this is totally unacceptable. The Bears are topnotch on the initial series of a game when plays are scripted but can't make adjustments afterwards. This points out 2 shortcomings of Nagy. I don't want to lose Desai but perhaps a new HC will pull a Fangio and would keep him.
People keep saying that the OL is getting beaten like a drum when it just isn't true. Yes, they got their asses kicked in Cleveland, but it's been pretty above board since then. IMO all but one sack in the Packers game was on Fields trying to scramble.
The receivers can't find separation and an OL can't keep out a defense indefintely. You're right, though, Fields needs to learn when to cut bait and get rid of the ball if he can't make a play.
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:29 pm
Here are some more stats six weeks into Year 4 of Matt Nagy's offense courtesy of Jason Lieser of the Sun Times - read 'em and weep fellas...
The Bears sit 30th in scoring at 16.3 points per game.
The Bears are one of four teams that still haven’t reached 100 points.
It’s the Bears worst start, scoring-wise, under coach Matt Nagy.
The Bears are last in yards per game.
The Bears are second-worst in passer rating.
The Bears are fifth-worst on third-down conversions.
The Bears and Jaguars are the only teams that have yet to score 25 points in a game.
The Bears are last in the NFL with nine passes of 20 yards or more, and five of those came in the game against the winless Lions.
In half their games, the Bears haven’t completed even one pass of 20 yards or more.
G08 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:36 pm
I'm teetering on the fence of hoping Fields can lead this offense to 24+ points per game and detonating this coaching staff.
Which begs the question, how many more fucking times can we keep finding garbage offensive minds? Or is it the players?
"It's the running back. Bad fit." - Gets new RBs including one with the team's highest draft pick. No change.
"It's the tight ends. They're all crap." - Gets a new set of TEs including one with the team's highest draft pick. No change.
"It's the QB. He's a bust." - Gets multiple new QBs including one with the team's highest draft pick. No change.
"It's the WRs. We need speed." - Gets several sub 4.4 WRs. No change.
G08 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:36 pm
I'm teetering on the fence of hoping Fields can lead this offense to 24+ points per game and detonating this coaching staff.
Which begs the question, how many more fucking times can we keep finding garbage offensive minds? Or is it the players?
"It's the running back. Bad fit." - Gets new RBs including one with the team's highest draft pick. No change.
"It's the tight ends. They're all crap." - Gets a new set of TEs including one with the team's highest draft pick. No change.
"It's the QB. He's a bust." - Gets multiple new QBs including one with the team's highest draft pick. No change.
"It's the WRs. We need speed." - Gets several sub 4.4 WRs. No change.
Touché buddy.
Nagy's got the rest of this season to prove he can develop Justin Fields or I want him outta here.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS
"Wallet white, phone is pink, case is clear, nails are clear, lips are pink – your girl LOVE 'em!"
And the statistical reasons for firing Nagy just keep pouring in...
The Bears have scored three or more offensive touchdowns against a winning team just three times in Nagy’s 56 games as head coach. That’s tied with the Jets for the fewest in the NFL in that span (2018-21) and well below the NFL average of 9.8.
